2018-19 Texas Longhorns thread

[zork 629]

6 hours ago, taybo20 said:

Our coach is garbage. This sucks

I will say the only game I have watched was Radford.  

The lack of effort or intensity till the last 1.5 minutes in the game was stunning.  Even the announcer was mentioning it cold, straight, pulling no punches.  

Maybe it is the responsibility of the coach to instill effort and intensity but to me it is the players that just didn't have them nor urgency till they thought, my words, that they could pull out a close win during the last minute.  And the veteran Radford dude just ate our lunch at the end one on one so that waiting to the last minute strategerie lost the game.

I forced myself to watch that whole game.  It was horribad, mostly. 

edit: I was out of town for the unc and mich state games which I would have watched if not camping.

Edited December 7, 2018 by zork

[Catdaddyhorn 3463]

Of all the games we played this year how is that the only game you watched?

[zork 629]

6 hours ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

Of all the games we played this year how is that the only game you watched?

It  is a good question.  I have playstation vue which has the LHN this year after cutting the cord a few years back.  I think my kids and wife were at a function which allowed me to have unfettered time to watch the Rad game.  Doesn't happen that often on weeknights.  And the two marquee games I was out of town camping as mentioned before.  

[txhorns 2421]

46 minutes ago, zork said:

It  is a good question.  I have playstation vue which has the LHN this year after cutting the cord a few years back.  I think my kids and wife were at a function which allowed me to have unfettered time to watch the Rad game.  Doesn't happen that often on weeknights.  And the two marquee games I was out of town camping as mentioned before.  

Why do your wife and kids dictate what you watch?

[zork 629]

1 hour ago, txhorns said:

Why do your wife and kids dictate what you watch?

We are highly active parents helping them study, discussing shit, family time, and to be honest I haven't made UT basketball a priority in quite awhile.  I still follow them looking at boxscores, highlights, reading about how the games went, and of course reading opinions here and elsewhere on all UT sports.  PS-Vue has been nice to watch when I am able, or when I make it a priority.

[PilotsError 2336]

You don't have to justify not watching this team.

[Red Five 41703]

You don't have to justify not watching this team.

It’s making me want to become a highly active parent as well.

[Goo Punch 4275]

On 4/14/2018 at 2:15 PM, Goo Punch said:

Last year with Mo Bamba we were great defensively yet we still sucked at rebounding. The way this roster is shaping up we are going to fall off defensively and could be the worst rebounding team in the league. In fact it looks like we’re going from one of the worst shooting teams in major conference ball to attempting to be a team that lives off of shooting. Sounds like a classic Mack Brown over-correction. I’ll be thrilled if we really can shoot the ball next year, but if we suffer defensively and somehow get worse on the boards then our W-L and overall performance isn’t going to improve markedly.

 

Right now we’re looking at playing 4 guards and Sims, or 4 guards and DO, or 3 guards, a freshman wing who isn’t ready, and one of the two aforementioned bigs on the floor. Shaka was determined to play an inside-out game from the offset at Texas, but it looks like he’s finally accepting that this isn’t going to happen- which means we wasted some good years with some Havoc-ready players trying to be something that we aren’t. 

...or dies from it. 28.1 3PA per game at a 28% conversion rate. it's even worse than i imagined.

[zork 629]

BTW,  in the Radford game Roach was using his offhand during his shot way too much causing his shots to be off I believe.(offhand causing a sortof sidespin)  Watch his shot as he follows through, or don't let your kids watch if they are forming their opinion of how to properly shoot a one handed(with just very basic off hand support) basketball jump shot(or free throw especially where it is quite obvious he has regressed from the earlier fall video where it had improved significantly).  Seems like I saw at least one more guy doing it(too much offhand causing sidespin) but can't recall who it was at this point.

Does nobody on the coaching staff know how to coach fundamentals on how to accurately shoot a basketball?  

2 hours ago, PilotsError said:

You don't have to justify not watching this team.

This made me laugh/cry at the same time. /sniff  They need a laugh/cry rep smiley of some kind.

Edited December 7, 2018 by zork

[VinyVango 708]

Roach has been an example of poor fundamentals throughout the season so far.  Out of control shots... dribbling into double teams without even looking in the direction of the open teammate… releasing the ball on the way down... standing around on offense at the 3-point line... etc... 

His previous calling card, good defense, has even slipped a few notches this year.  Even if he's a sensitive type that has needed a lot of coddling over his career, he's a senior now and it's time to give him and DO a stern earful to clean up the stupid and timid play.  We have young guys that will play with passion... Give them a shot and see if they can take smart shots and turn it over less. 

[ztejas 44217]

14 hours ago, Cameltoe said:

but you have to have knockdown shooters. Villanova had that last year.

Yes - all Texas needs to do is be one of the best college basketball teams of all time.

You have to have really, really good players to try and Moreyball. College ball is more about controlling possession, hitting free throws and playing defense than putting up points quickly. It's rare to have more than one or two elite 3 point shooters on the same team - where as some teams in the NBA have 4-5 or more. 

Also helps having players that can finish at the rim. 

[Bitterwhiteguy 153]

1 hour ago, VinyVango said:

Roach has been an example of poor fundamentals throughout the season so far.  Out of control shots... dribbling into double teams without even looking in the direction of the open teammate… releasing the ball on the way down... standing around on offense at the 3-point line... etc... 

His previous calling card, good defense, has even slipped a few notches this year.  Even if he's a sensitive type that has needed a lot of coddling over his career, he's a senior now and it's time to give him and DO a stern earful to clean up the stupid and timid play.  We have young guys that will play with passion... Give them a shot and see if they can take smart shots and turn it over less. 

He's not. One thing I will say for Snoop is that nobody is more aware he sucks right now than him. He may have done some immature things in the past, but he puts in the work and wants to be as good as he can be.

[Goo Punch 4275]

1 hour ago, VinyVango said:

Roach has been an example of poor fundamentals throughout the season so far.  Out of control shots... dribbling into double teams without even looking in the direction of the open teammate… releasing the ball on the way down... standing around on offense at the 3-point line... etc... 

His previous calling card, good defense, has even slipped a few notches this year.  Even if he's a sensitive type that has needed a lot of coddling over his career, he's a senior now and it's time to give him and DO a stern earful to clean up the stupid and timid play.  We have young guys that will play with passion... Give them a shot and see if they can take smart shots and turn it over less. 

yeah his defense started slipping last year as well. look, at this point i feel like it's hard for anyone to argue against the idea that coddling players is almost never in their best interests, especially considering that in today's world of basketball *everyone* thinks he's a future NBA player. These guys all want to test the draft waters and see themselves as pros, and at the highest level they should be treated as such. 

On the opposite end of the spectrum you have a guy like Barnes, and yes, some players (Justin Mason for example) ended up not responding as well to it, but far more did. I've posted this before, but a recent player (he was on Shaka's first team here) told me, "I love Rick Barnes. I love that man. He pushed me beyond what I thought I was capable of because he tested me as a man every single day." I'm not saying that every coach needs to be as much as a hard ass as Rick, but I seriously believe that Shaka's bff/uber positive MO, along with many if his other personality traits, decidedly *do not* help these young men progress as players. they need to be treated like men, and they need to be held accountable for their own okay, something we have yet to see under Shaka. 

[Goo Punch 4275]

what's funny is I agree with both of the previous posts above mine. there's no questioning Roach's work ethic or want-to, but I don't think- check that, I *know* that he isn't being pushed hard enough by his head coach.

and again, this goes back to things that i've said for a long time here about Shaka. and what's gotten lost every time I've brought this up is that people seem to take what I say and skew it to mean that I want Shaka to insult/disparage/belittle his players, when that's not the case at all. it goes way beyond that. look at the example I gave of Rick bringing KD to Big XII Media Day (unprecedented at the time), and proclaiming, "this guy right here is the best player in the country. I have the best player in the country on my team." For better or worse he tells it like he sees it, to the player's face, and to the media. whether he's praising KD at B12 media day, whether he's publicly calling KD "the worst defender i've ever coached", or whether he's benching a guy for taking a stupid shot or for falling asleep on defense- the expectations are crystal clear, and so are the resulting rewards/punishments. He treats his players like men, because that's what they are. Maybe not the day they arrive to campus,  but certainly by year two.

Conversely, Shaka not only doesn't bench anybody for poor play, he outright refuses to use his depth for any reason at all. Take as many bad shots as you want, average a foul every 4 minutes, get burned in man to man defense 100 times, or in the case of Jaxson Hayes, just be obviously and clearly superior to the guy who came before you- doesn't matter. nothing is changing. Nobody is held accountable. Just keep doing you and being positive and everything will be ok. 

[ztejas 44217]

One issue Texas has had for the past who knows how many years is a complete lack of tweeners playing for their livelihoods in the college game. No AJ Abrams', J'Covan Browns, Damion James'. 

Just a bunch of athletes with shitty fundamentals and ball skills that either get drafted based on potential or never had a shot to begin with. 

There aren't any BALLERS out there that at some point will just say "Fuck it - I'm winning this shit - get out of my way". Everyone just kind of stands around with their thumbs in their asses hoping someone else will score. 

Edited December 7, 2018 by ztejas

[Catdaddyhorn 3463]

People are using the word athlete a bit too liberally. The only elite athletes on the squad are Hayes, Sims, & Roach.  Nobody else on the team is even close to special athletically, especially relative to other D1 players.   

[ztejas 44217]

25 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

People are using the word athlete a bit too liberally. The only elite athletes on the squad are Hayes, Sims, & Roach.  Nobody else on the team is even close to special athletically, especially relative to other D1 players.   

I'm talking about the last few years, not just this year's roster. I barely know who Texas 8 deep is this season - I just know none of them are particularly captivating with the ball in their hands from what I've watched. 

Also - I said "athlete" not "elite athlete". You can be good at basketball because of your athleticism while not being an elite athlete. 

[Goo Punch 4275]

Forming a team with some guys off the top of my head from the Barnes/Shaka era who I think fit what ztejas is talking about:

Starting five:

Royal Ivey

AJ Abrams

Brandon Mouton

Damion James

Cam Ridley

 

bench:

J'Covan Brown

Isaiah Taylor

Brian Boddicker

Brad Buckman

Jonathan Holmes

Prince Ibeh

Demarcus Holland

Javan Felix

Kenton Paulino

 

This is re: @ztejas, and I agree with him. A lot of these types of players aren't appreciated enough until they're gone. How much better is Lammert than DO? How superior is Cam Ridley over Jericho Sims? Jonathan Holmes, with his rebounding and shooting would be a very welcome addition to this team- he'd be the best forward and the best wing on our roster. We've had high NBA picks and 5* and 4* players recently, but Shaka's first team (not coincidentally his best team) was roster full of guys like this. Guys who were comfortable on the court, natural basketball players, even if they weren't NBA prospects.

The bright side is that I expect Hepa, Ramey, and Sims to be like these guys, and hopefully Liddell will develop as well. I just hope that we find a proper coach to maximize the talent within these players.

edit- of course a guy like Sims, who was a guaranteed 3-year player if not a 4-year college player just 10-15 years ago, could leave as early as next April. So there's that. 

Edited December 7, 2018 by Goo Punch

[ztejas 44217]

23 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

Forming a team with some guys off the top of my head from the Barnes/Shaka era who I think fit what ztejas is talking about:

Starting five:

Royal Ivey

AJ Abrams

Brandon Mouton

Damion James

Cam Ridley

 

bench:

J'Covan Brown

Isaiah Taylor

Brian Boddicker

Brad Buckman

Jonathan Holmes

Prince Ibeh

Demarcus Holland

Javan Felix

Kenton Paulino

 

This is re: @ztejas, and I agree with him. A lot of these types of players aren't appreciated enough until they're gone. How much better is Lammert than DO? How superior is Cam Ridley over Jericho Sims? Jonathan Holmes, with his rebounding and shooting would be a very welcome addition to this team- he'd be the best forward and the best wing on our roster. We've had high NBA picks and 5* and 4* players recently, but Shaka's first team (not coincidentally his best team) was roster full of guys like this. Guys who were comfortable on the court, natural basketball players, even if they weren't NBA prospects.

The bright side is that I expect Hepa, Ramey, and Sims to be like these guys, and hopefully Liddell will develop as well. I just hope that we find a proper coach to maximize the talent within these players.

edit- of course a guy like Sims, who was a guaranteed 3-year player if not a 4-year college player just 10-15 years ago, could leave as early as next April. So there's that. 

God I loved Jonathan Holmes. He had a few hammers that he threw down iirc while he was here (there?). 

Less of a UT basketball fan than I used to be. I was bastardized through attending a different school, and can only maintain interest through so many first round exits. But, almost all the guys you listed have special places in my heart. 

IT is actually more of the "athlete with potential" I was referring to, but he played with heart and drive. Not a fundamentally great PG, but was good around the rim and fast as shit. 

Abrams was such a great player. Austin product, too. I remember the tourney game against Minny where he went absolutely nuclear from 3 - hit like 8 3s or something ridiculous in a tournament game. 

I'd add Balbay to your list as well. Loved the guys that always had the Turkish flag going at Erwin. 

Edited December 7, 2018 by ztejas

[Horn80 6348]

On 12/6/2018 at 4:06 PM, Red Five said:

That would put him at 29-43 in conference play in four years.

In that case, UT better purchase some large ozone generators to run around the clock to get the stench out of the Erwin Center.

[satyanash 15515]

There has to be a happy medium between Barnes and Smart, right? Barnes virtually scared a lot of the younger players into not shooting and passing up good shots, leading to guys like Javan Felix taking more shots than they probably should have.

[Goo Punch 4275]

1 hour ago, ztejas said:

God I loved Jonathan Holmes. He had a few hammers that he threw down iirc while he was here (there?). 

Less of a UT basketball fan than I used to be. I was bastardized through attending a different school, and can only maintain interest through so many first round exits. But, almost all the guys you listed have special places in my heart. 

IT is actually more of the "athlete with potential" I was referring to, but he played with heart and drive. Not a fundamentally great PG, but was good around the rim and fast as shit. 

Abrams was such a great player. Austin product, too. I remember the tourney game against Minny where he went absolutely nuclear from 3 - hit like 8 3s or something ridiculous in a tournament game. 

I'd add Balbay to your list as well. Loved the guys that always had the Turkish flag going at Erwin. 

That's right, I'd meant to add Balbay originally. Great athlete, great defender, good passer who didn't turn the ball over. 

And yeah, if Jonathan Holmes has not had some untimely injuries (not to mention the other things which we now know he was dealing with) he could have been a great college player. The definition of "not great at anything but good at everything". @NorthLoop and I watched him nail a buzzer beater to drop K State a few years back.  He was easy to root for.

[ztejas 44217]

15 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

That's right, I'd meant to add Balbay originally. Great athlete, great defender, good passer who didn't turn the ball over. 

And yeah, if Jonathan Holmes has not had some untimely injuries (not to mention the other things which we now know he was dealing with) he could have been a great college player. The definition of "not great at anything but good at everything". @NorthLoop and I watched him nail a buzzer beater to drop K State a few years back.  He was easy to root for.

Yep. I remember that one. Almost mentioned it in my first comment.

[Catdaddyhorn 3463]

2 hours ago, ztejas said:

I'm talking about the last few years, not just this year's roster. I barely know who Texas 8 deep is this season - I just know none of them are particularly captivating with the ball in their hands from what I've watched. 

Also - I said "athlete" not "elite athlete". You can be good at basketball because of your athleticism while not being an elite athlete. 

I was more or less using your post to push back against the frequently spouted narrative on this board that we're a team full of athletes. We really aren't. We're a team full of flawed basketball players who aren't being utilized in a manner to minimize those flaws. We're trying to play a free wheeling, open court style without enough capable guards (or skilled bigmen I'm looking at your Dylan) to do it to any level of precision. Maybe a healthy Andrew Jones would've relieved things a little, but even with him I don't think guys like Coleman and Febres are skilled enough to facilitate what Shaka wants to run. And Roach's spaz threshold seems to have come back down to sophomore year levels.  We'd have a much better chance  running more structures sets from the free throw line extended allowing for more room for backdoor cuts and high low block to block movement from our bigs. Our main guards are neither savvy nor skilled enough to run the stuff Shaka has tried to run over the past 2 years. 

Edited December 8, 2018 by Catdaddyhorn

[Catdaddyhorn 3463]

To be supremely successful running the stuff Shaka wants we'd need more guys like Ramey, J'Covan Brown, and DJ Augustin. Guys who can shoot from deep, shoot in the midrange/floater area, pass, drive, and handle. Also who's overall IQ and instincts would lead them to make good decisions most of the time (J'Covan didn't necessarily have this). The point is that you don't need uber athletic guards to do the things Shaka has asked his guards to do, but you definitely need good decision makers and just as important you need guards skilled in all facets of offensive basketball. You can't have a bunch of guards lacking in 2 or more of the 5 main areas. Even a high IQ team full of guards like TJ Ford wouldn't necessarily be maximized in this offense because they wouldn't be enough of a shooting threat collectively to open the floor up. 

[Catdaddyhorn 3463]

Suffice to say, that even more than offensive ineptness, Shaka's biggest failing here has been roster management, especially with respect to guards. Going into season 2 there was a thread on Shaggy where this concern was voiced. Many were shocked that given what he saw in that first year, he viewed Roach as an adequate PG replacement for Taylor. From the start it was obvious that Roach lacked the savvy to be a PG. I'll admit I hedged and tried to put the best light on it as a gamble against losing Jones in that class or even Coleman in the upcoming class, but I was wrong. He obviously can't evaluate guard play at a sufficient level. And clearly managing his roster and then choosing an offense to maximize said roster has been his achilles heel. Oh, that and Jacob Young over Carsen Edwards. That was as much of a signal as any that this guy doesn't have a clear view of what he needs from a guard for what he wants to run. That choice alone probably obscures a few of the other bad decisions. 

[Goo Punch 4275]

47 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

Suffice to say, that even more than offensive ineptness, Shaka's biggest failing here has been roster management, especially with respect to guards. Going into season 2 there was a thread on Shaggy where this concern was voiced. Many were shocked that given what he saw in that first year, he viewed Roach as an adequate PG replacement for Taylor. From the start it was obvious that Roach lacked the savvy to be a PG. I'll admit I hedged and tried to put the best light on it as a gamble against losing Jones in that class or even Coleman in the upcoming class, but I was wrong. He obviously can't evaluate guard play at a sufficient level. And clearly managing his roster and then choosing an offense to maximize said roster has been his achilles heel. Oh, that and Jacob Young over Carsen Edwards. That was as much of a signal as any that this guy doesn't have a clear view of what he needs from a guard for what he wants to run. That choice alone probably obscures a few of the other bad decisions. 

Something that i've said a few times during the Shaka era is that I miss having an identity. Tom Penders' teams ran, shot threes, got dunks, and dropped 100 on you if you tried to run with them. You may very well drop 105 on them, but they could still score triple digits on any given night. Texas had an identity- "The Runnin' Horns". We recruited to that. Penders went and recruited New York to get guys like Rencher and Freeman who would thrive with his style. The team he inherited was perfect for him, and the BMW years were my indoctrination to Texas basketball, and damn were they fun.

Then under Barnes our identity completely changed, but the identity was just as clear- we were tough, hard nosed, we played defense, and we would bully teams into submission. I'll never forget Bill Self saying something along the lines of, "Texas is the toughest team in the league; you always know you're in for a fight whenever you play Texas." Again, we recruited to our style- from role players to star recruits, Rick Barnes recruited Rick Barnes guys. Tough minded, able to be coached hard, embracing physicality on the court. Then he got Todd Wright to take our skinny guards and our fat forwards and turn them into chiseled beasts, because that's the identity of our program.

We've never had that with Shaka because he's too young and inexperienced to even have an identity yet. His years at Texas will go a long way towards him figuring out who he is as a coach, and how he wants to go about assembling future teams, but unfortunately we're all experiencing the growing pains with him. I want the next coach to bring his own identity to Texas from day one, as all of our best coaches have done. That's the way it's gotta be.

Edited December 8, 2018 by Goo Punch

[Bitterwhiteguy 153]

55 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

Suffice to say, that even more than offensive ineptness, Shaka's biggest failing here has been roster management, especially with respect to guards. Going into season 2 there was a thread on Shaggy where this concern was voiced. Many were shocked that given what he saw in that first year, he viewed Roach as an adequate PG replacement for Taylor. From the start it was obvious that Roach lacked the savvy to be a PG. I'll admit I hedged and tried to put the best light on it as a gamble against losing Jones in that class or even Coleman in the upcoming class, but I was wrong. He obviously can't evaluate guard play at a sufficient level. And clearly managing his roster and then choosing an offense to maximize said roster has been his achilles heel. Oh, that and Jacob Young over Carsen Edwards. That was as much of a signal as any that this guy doesn't have a clear view of what he needs from a guard for what he wants to run. That choice alone probably obscures a few of the other bad decisions. 

I think it would be more accurate to say that Shaka knew he wasn't landing Fox in his first real recruiting class and hoped Jones & Roach would provide D-I average PG play in aggregate until Coleman arrived. Anything beyond that was said in public to try to give the two players some confidence; it's a fairly regular occurrence for Shaka to say something in a press conference where the intended recipient is in the locker room. This hope was clearly not met in reality, and was the primary reason for the 11-win season. Also - I may have said this on here before, but I don't recall - if he had managed to land Fox then Jones would've gone elsewhere which would've caused different issues that year and the year after. To that point, I've started viewing roster decisions from most programs less as a clear 'take/miss' thing than as a series of choices with different pros & cons. Sure, Fox would've made the 11-win season better (let's say 16-18 wins instead of 11) but then there's a hole in the roster the next year where Jones was for a half-season, and maybe Coleman goes to Duke instead of Texas. How they fill that 1-2 spots is its own quandary. Add in how players transfer/leave early these days, roster management is basically witchcraft if you don't have bag men of the highest order.

As for Young, he was clearly a miss, but he was a miss that others were going after as well. He was lighting up AAU the year before his senior season, he was either the leading scorer on his circuit or not far off and he was draining threes from all over the court. His AAU tape looked like exactly what people want, some form of Millennial AJ Abrams. There's another reality where Baylor lands Young and in 2019 he's hitting 47% from three.

I don't say any of this to negate your point about the issues of roster management, Shaka & his staff have had their ups & downs in that area for sure. It's an inexact science; look at Edwards. He had offers from Purdue....and Baylor, SMU, Vanderbilt, Houston. He wasn't a clear take in high school, or else his offer list would've included bigger names. K State and Tech offered him but didn't pursue him seriously, he was a backup plan for them. If anyone thought he would develop into a NPOY candidate, he would've been offered by UNC, Kansas, Duke, etc. Sometimes guys exceed the expectations of most schools, and good on Edwards for doing it. The guy is a baller and could easily ruin my Sunday.

Edited December 8, 2018 by Bitterwhiteguy

[Catdaddyhorn 3463]

13 minutes ago, Bitterwhiteguy said:

I think it would be more accurate to say that Shaka knew he wasn't landing Fox in his first real recruiting class and hoped Jones & Roach would provide D-I average PG play in aggregate until Coleman arrived. Anything beyond that was said in public to try to give the two players some confidence; it's a fairly regular occurrence for Shaka to say something in a press conference where the intended recipient is in the locker room. This hope was clearly not met in reality, and was the primary reason for the 11-win season. Also - I may have said this on here before, but I don't recall - if he had managed to land Fox then Jones would've gone elsewhere which would've caused different issues that year and the year after. To that point, I've started viewing roster decisions from most programs less as a clear 'take/miss' thing than as a series of choices with different pros & cons. Sure, Fox would've made the 11-win season better (let's say 16-18 wins instead of 11) but then there's a hole in the roster the next year where Jones was for a half-season, and maybe Coleman goes to Duke instead of Texas. How they fill that 1-2 spots is its own quandary. Add in how players transfer/leave early these days, roster management is basically witchcraft if you don't have bag men of the highest order.

As for Young, he was clearly a miss, but he was a miss that others were going after as well. He was lighting up AAU the year before his senior season, he was either the leading scorer on his circuit or not far off and he was draining threes from all over the court. His AAU tape looked like exactly what people want, some form of Millennial AJ Abrams. There's another reality where Baylor lands Young and in 2019 he's hitting 47% from three.

I don't say any of this to negate your point about the issues of roster management, Shaka & his staff have had their ups & downs in that area for sure. It's an inexact science; look at Edwards. He had offers from Purdue....and Baylor, SMU, Vanderbilt, Houston. He wasn't a clear take in high school, or else his offer list would've included bigger names. K State and Tech offered him but didn't pursue him seriously, he was a backup plan for them. If anyone thought he would develop into a NPOY candidate, he would've been offered by UNC, Kansas, Duke, etc. Sometimes guys exceed the expectations of most schools, and good on Edwards for doing it. The guy is a baller and could easily ruin my Sunday.

That's fair. I asked you a few months back what the prevailing view was of Edwards and  Young going into that summer after Shaka was hired. Still though, regardless of what people thought of them, Young's style as a gunner (even at it's peak), isn't something that compliments our current style of play right now, unless he was playing alongside guys like Jones, Ramey and other guards who were more versatile and well rounded. That's what I don't understand about our roster building. Seems like guys like Ramey and even Long would be more of a premium than guys like Coleman (who I love, but isn't well suited for what we're trying to do). Honestly he'd be better suited in a Barnes style of offense.  

Edited December 8, 2018 by Catdaddyhorn

[ztejas 44217]

1 hour ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

To be supremely successful running the stuff Shaka wants we'd need more guys like Ramey, J'Covan Brown, and DJ Augustin. Guys who can shoot from deep, shoot in the midrange/floater area, pass, drive, and handle. Also who's overall IQ and instincts would lead them to make good decisions most of the time (J'Covan didn't necessarily have this)

What I'm gathering from this is that basically you need players that are better at playing basketball. 

[Bitterwhiteguy 153]

3 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

That's fair. I asked you a few months back what the prevailing view was of Edwards and  Young going into that summer after Shaka was hired. Still though, regardless of what people thought of them, Young's style as a gunner (even at it's peak), isn't something that compliments our current style of play right now, unless he was playing alongside guys like Jones, Ramey and other guards who were more versatile and well rounded. That's what I don't understand about our roster building. Seems like guys like Ramey and even Long would be more of a premium than guys like Coleman (who I love, but isn't well suited for what we're trying to do). Honestly he'd be better suited in a Barnes style of offense.  

I readily admit I'm not a recruiting guru so I may be off on the conventional wisdom at the time, but if you were evenly divided between Young & Edwards (or another similar fringe top-100 shooting guard) there were off-court/political reasons to take Young over him. Young's father/family are influential in the Houston hoops scene, and bringing them into the fold could potentially pay dividends in other ways. If you think it's a coin toss between him and another guy of his ilk, Young is probably getting the call. The way it eventually went down probably did Shaka no favors, but that's the gamble you take with the mid/low 4-star-ish player.

As for Coleman, I still really like him and when his head is on right he's absolutely the kind of guard I want, by which I mean a guy that's good enough to be an all-conference player but not so gifted he's gone to the NBA after a year. If I'm building a team that balances roster stability with high-end performance, Monte Morris is basically my goal for point guard. Coleman has some level of that within him, and while he's struggled this year his advanced stats in many areas are starting to resemble last year. Which is fine, though not where you want him ultimately. I still think that Coleman is the least of Texas' long-term problems, and he & Ramey could really be something if they gel next year.

I'm not going to spend all night on this, but I think the way I would look at Shaka's recruiting is that the last 2 classes are much more of what I think will be successful than the first 2 classes. There's a mix of high-level talent with longer-term projects and/or high-upside guys, and I wish the Jones/Allen class was as plentiful as the two after it. The loss of Mack & Davis combined with the massive turnover of the seniors/Taylor really did a number on roster management and they're just now at a point where they can build depth rather than patch holes. Whether it's Shaka or somebody else here in 2 years, they will have a good talent base to work from.

[Catdaddyhorn 3463]

3 minutes ago, ztejas said:

What I'm gathering from this is that basically you need players that are better at playing basketball. 

Players have different skillsets. Magic Johnson wouldn't necessarily be optimized in our current style of play. Same issue midrange players like Carmello Anthony are having with the algorithmic focused style change that is taking place in the NBA today. 

[ztejas 44217]

3 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

Magic Johnson wouldn't necessarily be optimized in our current style of play.

Yeah you would really struggle with one of the 5-10 greatest players in basketball history. 

What the fuck are you even talking about?

[Catdaddyhorn 3463]

5 minutes ago, Bitterwhiteguy said:

I readily admit I'm not a recruiting guru so I may be off on the conventional wisdom at the time, but if you were evenly divided between Young & Edwards (or another similar fringe top-100 shooting guard) there were off-court/political reasons to take Young over him. Young's father/family are influential in the Houston hoops scene, and bringing them into the fold could potentially pay dividends in other ways. If you think it's a coin toss between him and another guy of his ilk, Young is probably getting the call. The way it eventually went down probably did Shaka no favors, but that's the gamble you take with the mid/low 4-star-ish player.

As for Coleman, I still really like him and when his head is on right he's absolutely the kind of guard I want, by which I mean a guy that's good enough to be an all-conference player but not so gifted he's gone to the NBA after a year. If I'm building a team that balances roster stability with high-end performance, Monte Morris is basically my goal for point guard. Coleman has some level of that within him, and while he's struggled this year his advanced stats in many areas are starting to resemble last year. Which is fine, though not where you want him ultimately. I still think that Coleman is the least of Texas' long-term problems, and he & Ramey could really be something if they gel next year.

I'm not going to spend all night on this, but I think the way I would look at Shaka's recruiting is that the last 2 classes are much more of what I think will be successful than the first 2 classes. There's a mix of high-level talent with longer-term projects and/or high-upside guys, and I wish the Jones/Allen class was as plentiful as the two after it. The loss of Mack & Davis combined with the massive turnover of the seniors/Taylor really did a number on roster management and they're just now at a point where they can build depth rather than patch holes. Whether it's Shaka or somebody else here in 2 years, they will have a good talent base to work from.

No doubt it was definitely a rocky, difficult road to navigate, but he failed at doing so. 

[Catdaddyhorn 3463]

24 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Yeah you would really struggle with one of the 5-10 greatest players in basketball history. 

What the fuck are you even talking about?

Magic Johnson wouldn't necessarily be optimized in our current style of play.

Are these words difficult to understand? Obviously if you have Magic you play differently, but if we were going to remain stupid and play the way we currently do (jacking 3s irrespective of whether we're good at it), then Magic Johnson wouldn't be OPTIMIZED in this style of play. 

Edited December 8, 2018 by Catdaddyhorn

[ztejas 44217]

2 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

Magic Johnson wouldn't necessarily be optimized in our current style of play.

Are these words difficult to understand? Obviously if you have Magic you play differently, but if we were going to remain stupid and play the way we currently do (jacking 3s irrespective of whether we're good at it), then Magic Johnson wouldn't be OPTIMIZED in this style of play. 

Magic Johnson would be optimized by the fact that he's Magic fucking Johnson, in any style of play, in any era.

Again, what the hell are you talking about?

[Catdaddyhorn 3463]

Optimize -make the best or most effective use of (a situation, opportunity, or resource).

Magic, who was a below average 3pt shooter, would not be optimized in an offense where you told him that half of his shots should be taken from the 3pt line. Quit being obtuse. 

 

Edited December 8, 2018 by Catdaddyhorn

[Cameltoe 114]

Magic Johnson ain't walkin through that door.

[UTDD 362]

17 hours ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

Optimize -make the best or most effective use of (a situation, opportunity, or resource).

Magic, who was a below average 3pt shooter, would not be optimized in an offense where you told him that half of his shots should be taken from the 3pt line. Quit being obtuse. 

 

I buy this but much worse I buy the idea that some, if not more than half of all current college coaches could take this current roster and add college prime Magic Johnson (of course the key being many coaches would alter their system to fit Magic's unique gifts) and immediately feel like they are a Top 10 team and real contender.  I would not feel that confident with our current coach at all.

[HtownHorn 15244]

On 12/5/2018 at 10:44 PM, Cameltoe said:

It's idiotic to talk of firing right now. There's a season to play.

 

Shut the fuck up. You are a fucking moron, and your opinion on this matter is retard level stupidity.

[Machinator 32103]

[Machinator 32103]

 

[ztejas 44217]

Is CDC getting more fans to the basketball games? 

[Red Five 41703]

Hey that sounds pretty cool. They don't make you go inside do they? 

[Catdaddyhorn 3463]

Totally thought the game was today. 

[Goo Punch 4275]

4 hours ago, ztejas said:

Is CDC getting more fans to the basketball games? 

me.meseeks would be a much better coach than shaka smart.

[Goo Punch 4275]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Fozzz 152]

It seems like teams have figured out that if you can stop Roach from driving you can pretty much destroy our offense.  Hopefully Smart has a Plan B ready for this afternoon.

[HtownHorn 15244]

36 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

It seems like teams have figured out that if you can stop Roach from driving you can pretty much destroy our offense.  Hopefully Smart has a Plan B ready for this afternoon.

His plan B is to let Osetkowski jack up wide open 3's from anywhere on the court. Not necessarily the corner 3, which is statistically the best shot in basketball just anywhere Dylan happens to be on that given play. By play I mean when the team just stands in place while the shot clock dwindles down.

[Fozzz 152]

Well, hopefully he has a Plan C then.