What's the fix for the foster care system in Texas?

[BearSchlong 8098]

I'm at a loss here, what's the answer?

https://abc13.com/children-living-in-cps-offices-texas-care-unlicensed-facility-for-kids-foster/11006931/

13 Investigates: Teen shot after sneaking out, another 'sleeping off a hangover' under CPS's care

Advocates believe Texas is "abandoning" its most vulnerable children.

By Ted Oberg and Sarah Rafique

Wednesday, September 8, 2021 1:35PM

 

HOUSTON, Texas (KTRK) -- Prince Hayward stuffed everything he owned into a black trash bag.

He was about seven years old when he spent the night sleeping on the floor of a Child Protective Services employee's office in southwest Houston with his lone bag of belongings beside him.

One night turned into another as he ended up spending two weeks living in an office because there weren't any foster families or homes that would take him -- not even temporarily. When Hayward returned to his biological family, the abuse and neglect continued, and he was forced to spend his nights sleeping in CPS offices across the state again and again. He aged out of the system without ever being adopted.

"You go to the restroom wherever the caseworker would normally go to the restroom. You would sleep on the floor. You'd be lucky if you had a pillow. You'd be lucky if you had a blanket," Hayward, now 26, recalled in an interview with 13 Investigates' Ted Oberg. "Most of the time you'd be by yourself, you know? You're there in your own traumatic thoughts as a kid with a person who, at five o'clock, is going to go home."

Two decades later, despite assurances from the state and court orders to stop other children from living in CPS offices like Hayward, the state is still shuffling kids from one unlicensed facility to the next. Some end up in CPS offices. Others stay in hotels, motels or government shelters, all under the watchful eye of what insiders tell us are overworked and at times undertrained and underequipped CPS staff.

Statewide, nearly 15,000 children are in CPS custody. Most of the children are in foster homes, but every year, hundreds of children, mostly older teens, are considered CWOP, or children without placement, and placed in unlicensed facilities. In May, 310 children spent at least two nights at CWOP locations across the state.

In July, 79 children spent at least two nights in offices, motels or other unlicensed facilities in the Houston area alone. The previous month, one child without placement snuck out and was shot in the back of the head while allegedly trying to carjack someone. The Houston Police Department said it was the teen's second alleged carjacking that night.

Paul Yetter, who represents thousands of Texas foster care children in a class action lawsuit against the state, said Texas is "abandoning" its most vulnerable children.

In one case, Yetter said a child slept in an office for 80 straight days.

"This is not a one night here, one night there. Some of these children are sleeping weeks at a time in unlicensed facilities, and it's just dangerous and it should never happen in a state like Texas," he said. "The state knows it has a problem. The state knows that they have a crisis with these children. The state has got to focus on it and fix it. They've got to allocate the funds so they have safe placements. It's not a matter of whether the state can do it. The state just has to make it a priority to keep these children safe."

'Significant crisis'

Texas Department of Family and Protective Services Commissioner Jaime Masters admits the CPS system is strained more than ever.

During a House Appropriations committee meeting on Aug. 23, Masters told lawmakers CPS staff do not receive the training needed to deal with foster children who have specialized needs, leaving them feeling "completely worn out" and leading to high turnover.

"Children fight. Children attack staff. We've had staff put in the emergency room. We've had other children who have been hurt by other children. We have children that Uber from one CWOP location to another to beat up kids. We have kids that are severely mentally ill, and it's traumatic for other kids and staff to watch what those kids go through," Masters told lawmakers last month.

"There's really no way to be able to put into words what our kids and our staff are experiencing in CWOP. It is a significant crisis."
 

The appropriations committee is addressing the need for better protection of Texas' foster children and retaining private providers after Texas Gov. Greg Abbott added it to the current special session agenda.

Lawmakers recently approved $90 million to DFPS over a two-year period to help with the foster care crisis. The bill passed the Texas House and Senate and is currently awaiting the governor's signature.

CPS turned down 13 Investigates' request for an on-camera interview, citing an upcoming court date. On Sept. 14, the state agency is due back in court in front of a judge who is demanding a state action plan.

In an email, DFPS spokesman Patrick Crimmins said the state has lost 1,000 beds for foster children and "COVID-19 damaged the capacity and weakened what had been a resilient system."

Crimmins admits, "a DFPS office is not where we want a child to stay."

But, he said there are a number of reasons a child could end up sleeping at a CPS office, including an emergency removal or a removal of siblings, but that every child should have an appropriate placement.

He said the state is looking into better ways to determine and share real-time information on placements and hopes, with the legislature's support, they can hire qualified staff to serve youth with highly-complex behaviors and needs.

Masters said the state has a hard time getting foster care providers to accept children with more specialized needs due to heightened monitoring following a judge's order as part of the ongoing federal lawsuit. The monitoring includes unannounced visits at facilities to identify if improvements are taking place as part of their improvement plan.

"If the providers are concerned about heightened monitoring, it does hamper their desire to take some of the higher acuity kids," she said.

A decade-long class action lawsuit was filed in federal court in 2011. Over the years, the court has found the state failed to protect foster children from "an unreasonable risk of harm" and called for court-appointed monitors to investigate areas of improvement and ensure compliance with standards.

A nearly 400-page monitoring report released in May said the state was not reporting data regarding children without placement to the monitors, which indicates "a gap in quality assurance and oversight."

"As the federal judge has found, children are leaving Texas foster care worse than they went in and it's not just irresponsible, it's unforgivable for a state like Texas, with all the resources that we have, not to be treating these most vulnerable citizens in a way that they deserve and just giving them safe homes," Yetter said.

'This cannot go on'

At 26 years old, Hayward now advocates for the younger version of himself -- the foster child who went to 30 different high schools while moving from one CPS office to another, who didn't have a mentor and who thought the system would have improved by now.

"Do better," he said. "You see what's going on, so do better."

Despite being held in contempt of court twice for not following the judge's orders to stop housing children in CPS offices and motels, the state continues to do so.

When visiting some of those CWOP locations during a ride-along with CPS last month, one assistant attorney with the Harris County Attorney's Office told the state she was "still a little shaken."

The attorney recalled visiting three facilities where she saw "children sleeping in offices on makeshift palettes" with no privacy and "no rooms to call their own," according to the letter, obtained by 13 Investigates.

"It was heartbreaking," she said.

At another facility, that attorney said caseworkers told her a female teen was sleeping off a hangover after getting drunk the night before. The attorney said the state described that behavior as "par for the course."

"Most of the children leave in and out of the CWOP facilities whenever they want to smoke weed, have sex, get drunk," the attorney said. "The children know that DFPS workers cannot make them stay."
 

At the third location, the attorney said a 16-year-old child knocked the glasses off her face in an attempted assault. The attorney said she was told it wasn't worth pursuing charges against the child because it likely wouldn't go anywhere.

"This situation was eye opening to say the least. Something has to be done for the children's safety, the workers' safety, and to get these children in a place where they (have) structure and discipline. This cannot go on like it is," the attorney said. "I wanted to do this ride-along to see first-hand what our client was up against and I certainly got the picture."

When 13 Investigates showed Hayward that letter, he said he wasn't surprised by what is going on at those facilities, saying it's been happening for years. But, he was shocked staff call it "par for the course" and worries normalizing situations like that means it won't ever change or get better for the "young princes" -- the foster care children who are in the same spot he was in a decade ago.

"They deserve the right to be stable," Hayward said. "They deserve the right to be loved, to be cared for, to know that they are being put on the right track and not just left to do whatever."

'Staff are fearful'

Records show just recently three kids at a CPS shelter locked another teen in a room, held a Glock to that child's head and threatened to kill him. When police arrived, they said the gun didn't have any live ammo, but did have BB ammo inside.

When we asked CPS about that incident, and the other incidents insiders told 13 Investigates about, they referred us to Masters' statements to lawmakers in August.
 

During those comments, Masters described another case in Harris County where a teenage boy allegedly attacked a girl at a CWOP facility where they both were located. Masters said the teenager was significantly larger than the girl and staff, who "were powerless to pull him off of her."

She said the teen was arrested, but brought back to the CWOP facility the next day.

"These are not little kids and our staff are fearful. I get emails daily from our staff that they are afraid to come to work. That they don't think anyone cares about them and they feel powerless," Masters said. "There are many times when we call for help and nothing happens to the child. And we're not helping the kid. If there are no consequences for any kind of behavior ... when they age out, the world isn't going to care about their trauma. They can't just go punch somebody in the face when they age out and they're used to nothing happening. What our staff sees is the only ones with consequences is our staff."

Yetter said it is not an answer for the state to criminalize children whose reactions are predictable.

"These children have no one to protect them but the state," he said. "They're children that have significant emotional needs, and they shouldn't be in an unlicensed facility that isn't there to protect them, in some ways, from themselves."

Yetter said the state is required to not only provide safe facilities, but also qualified caregivers. Without that specialized care, he said foster children don't have anyone giving them a "normal" life and end up unprepared for adulthood.

"They end up either in the criminal justice system or they become sex trafficked. They rarely get a good education and their future is bleak and that is a terrible cycle that the state can stop if we can just focus on these children and break the cycle," he said.

Yetter's decade-long civil suit is still playing out in court.

Since it was filed in 2011, Hayward turned 18 and aged out of the system, but he still remembers the four walls and a mat that became his home for weeks at a time.

As he stood outside that CPS office in southwest Houston, he reflected on how much more the state has to do to be a better parent to abused and neglected children in their care.

"It's weird. This used to be home," Hayward said. "It's not a home."

 

[Neonmoon 38129]

The Aristocrats 

-Abbot 

[Guest Lobo]

We'd better figure it out and right quick because we're about to have thousands more children enter the foster care system in the next few years.  

That not a single candidate for statewide office is talking about this is pretty fucking frightening.  

[crash_davis 23113]

This is going to get CR very quickly but yea, certain politicians have never given two shits about kids after they are born. They only care about fetuses.

Foster kids, well it's their fault their mom's left them. That's going to be an even bigger problem when the mom has no choice but to carry the fetus to term.

Those same politicians soon will be complaining about the rising cost of welfare and rising crime rates.

Gee, who could've foreseen that?

[BearSchlong 8098]

My wife works for the state and is on the front lines of this fuckery. Several times a week she takes CWOP supervisory shifts out of a sense of duty to help her coworkers. And she is not turning down the time and a half extra paycheck.

The article does a great job illustrating the impasse between the federal court's heightened monitoring mandate and the actual foster homes that don't want the extra scrutiny from taking these kids.

But sleeping on the floor of a CPS office eating hot pockets waiting to turn 18 bwfore the state says you're an adult doesn't seem great.

[ztejas 43475]

Have a less backwards abortion policy and better sexual/health education in poor parts of the state. 

[gsoda3 3263]

only way to do it is to take a boarding school approach with dedicated full time behavioral psychologists. 

[Neonmoon 38129]

1 hour ago, crash_davis said:

This is going to get CR very quickly but yea, certain politicians have never given two shits about kids after they are born. They only care about fetuses.

Foster kids, well it's their fault their mom's left them. That's going to be an even bigger problem when the mom has no choice but to carry the fetus to term.

Those same politicians soon will be complaining about the rising cost of welfare and rising crime rates.

Gee, who could've foreseen that?

I remember watching Freakonomics and it was fascinating how they tied the reduction of crime in the 90s to the passage of Row v Wade twenty years earlier. 

[Updawg 2268]

Been going on in Texas forever. Overworked staff and underpaid. It’s a brutal job, I’ve only known a few last past 10 years. The agency is very defensive and rightfully so

Texas would rather outsource it as much as they can. But yeah, once you are born you are fucked in Texas

[F250 28778]

7 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

only way to do it is to take a boarding school approach with dedicated full time behavioral psychologists. 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, crash_davis said:

This is going to get CR very quickly but yea, certain politicians have never given two shits about kids after they are born. They only care about fetuses.

Foster kids, well it's their fault their mom's left them. That's going to be an even bigger problem when the mom has no choice but to carry the fetus to term.

Those same politicians soon will be complaining about the rising cost of welfare and rising crime rates.

Gee, who could've foreseen that?

Improving life through eugenics.

 

Fucking awesome.

[workswithseed 2112]

It's like the state fails all the time. 

[crash_davis 23113]

52 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

I remember watching Freakonomics and it was fascinating how they tied the reduction of crime in the 90s to the passage of Row v Wade twenty years earlier. 

I too remember reading that. It has always stuck with me. It's pretty damn self evident when you think about it. But yea, here we are again. We don't ever learn from our mistakes.

[Guest Lobo]

This is a really roundabout way to get back to larger police budgets.  But I know a long game when I see one.  Respect.

[Helobious 9462]

I went to that Texas adoption page out of curiosity once. They have pictures of the kids up for adoption and you can sort by age & race and stuff like that. Felt weird. Pretty heartbreaking seeing the older teens that you know no one is going to adopt.

[FORTY NINE TO ZERO 2652]

11 minutes ago, Helobious said:

I went to that Texas adoption page out of curiosity once. They have pictures of the kids up for adoption and you can sort by age & race and stuff like that. Felt weird. Pretty heartbreaking seeing the older teens that you know no one is going to adopt.

Ugh. I just did too after reading your comment. Now Im honestly crying. 
 

the world can be a cruel and horrible place. 

[ztejas 43475]

1 hour ago, slorch said:

Improving life through eugenics.

 

Fucking awesome.

Abortion is not eugenics. You are welcome to be pro life but that's a stupid equivalency. It has more to do with kids growing up in environments that can't adequately support or educate them.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, ztejas said:

Abortion is not eugenics. You are welcome to be pro life but that's a stupid equivalency. It has more to do with kids growing up in environments that can't adequately support or educate them.

You're not improving anyone's life by ending it.   There is a mindset there that is fatally flawed.

"your life's gonna be less ideal than we hope for, so we're going to end it."  Lovely.

You know my stance goes beyond simply being pro-life, right?  I'm one of the candidates you probably think should have been aborted( insert snide comment here.)  I guess my life certainly would have been easier in your mind if I'd never been born and had to deal with being in the foster system.

Edited September 9, 2021 by slorch

[DaggerHorns 3085]

I have to fill out an extensive credit application to buy a car.

I have to go through a background check to adopt a dog.

I can have my truck taken from me if I shoot the wrong animal while hunting.

if I knock some chick up and bring a child into this world, I can just walk away.

At some point you would think the people that had the child could be held accountable.

[Snake Diggity 4625]

2 minutes ago, DaggerHorns said:

I have to fill out an extensive credit application to buy a car.

I have to go through a background check to adopt a dog.

I can have my truck taken from me if I shoot the wrong animal while hunting.

if I knock some chick up and bring a child into this world, I can just walk away.

At some point you would think the people that had the child could be held accountable.

Would be interested in how you would hold a crackhead and her anonymous sperm donor(s) “accountable”.

 

This problem is at least partially a result of our wholly inadequate education and healthcare systems.

My politically unviable solution would be year-round boarding schools, with a psychiatrist on staff and student:teacher ratios below 10.  An expensive solution but the only way to manage the problem now that it’s gotten so large.

[Neonmoon 38129]

Money hits everyone the same. Any genetically verified parent of a child must submit a certain percentage of their wages until the child is 18, and if not done willing, they will be garnished 

[Snake Diggity 4625]

24 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

Money hits everyone the same. Any genetically verified parent of a child must submit a certain percentage of their wages until the child is 18, and if not done willing, they will be garnished 

The idea that any meaningful percentage of  the biological parents of these kids in cps care have “wages” is laughable.

[crash_davis 23113]

The kids in foster homes never had a chance. They had absolutely no say to the condition in which they were born anymore than Bill Gate's kids were responsible for what they were born into.

The issue is that there are tons of mothers having kids who cannot physically, mentally, responsibly, and/or financially properly raise the kids in nurturing homes. Sometimes these mothers/families need financial help, need help with daycare, need help with education. Is the government going to step up to help all these parents, single moms, and kids? If the government is making these women carry the baby to term, then the government better step the fuck up in providing the financial assistance that the mothers need. Otherwise, these kids eventually will be having kids which end up in the same situation. It's a vicious circle which is getting much worse. Ignoring the problem isn't going to make it go away.

Making abortions illegal only gives a cheap win for the fake christians who want to pat themselves on the back to saving a fetus but don't give a flying fuck after the baby is born. Jesus cared way more about the poor than he did about same sex unions. Too bad fake christians don't give a shit about the poor, but they hate them some gays.

[davidg 4038]

2 hours ago, DaggerHorns said:

I have to fill out an extensive credit application to buy a car.

I have to go through a background check to adopt a dog.

I can have my truck taken from me if I shoot the wrong animal while hunting.

if I knock some chick up and bring a child into this world, I can just walk away.

At some point you would think the people that had the child could be held accountable.

 

 

 

 

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

Tbh I would rather be aborted if I knew I was gonna grow up in the Texas foster care system. It's a shitty childhood.

[NeverMarryAStripper 21907]

How many of you posting in this thread have been foster parents, or adopted kids out of CPS?  Quit bitching about it and step up.

[Pescado_Rojo 19423]

Just start calling them all fetuses. They should have millions of people lined up to take care of them, right? 

"12 year old fetus Jared and his 9 year old sister fetus Amy would love to find a family that loves movies and anything Disney!" 

 

[crash_davis 23113]

8 minutes ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

How many of you posting in this thread have been foster parents, or adopted kids out of CPS?  Quit bitching about it and step up.

Wife and I volunteer time at one of the foster care facilities. They are also on our list of annual charities which we give to. Is that anywhere close to adopting? Hell no, but we are doing what we can.

It's heartbreaking to see these kids. They have absolutely no control to their situation in which they were born into. 

[Catpfish 618]

My wife's cousin and wife fostered two boys (one born addicted and going through withdrawals).  They were approached by CPS about fostering the boy's two sisters which they gladly did.  They are soon to be the adoptive parents of the four children.  They were approached by CPS that the mother was pregnant again (and still on drugs) and asking them to take the fifth child.  They declined and it almost wrecked them emotionally to do it.  They are really great kids that got dealt a shit hand.

[MissingInAction 25106]

Got a friend at DFPs says they were asking for volunteers within agency to take kids into their homes. Not sure if valid but wouldn't surprise me.

[Brisketexan 105154]

This doesn't have to go CR, because when it comes to issues like this, we have long-received the exact governance we want and demand.

That's because culturally, we by and large don't give a shit about the vulnerable.  We SAY we do, we donate some money here and there, but our dominant cultural theme equates "success" with "worth." 

Are you rich, stable, live in a nice home?  Well, you're a good person who made good choices, and that's your reward. 

Are you poor, suffering, and miserable?  Well, you're a BAD person, who made bad choices, and your situation is what you deserve.

Yes, even though it's illogical, we carry that over to kids as well.

Culturally, we are all-in on a skewed vision of a "meritocracy."  We are all-OUT on any concept of grace.

When we see someone hungry and in need, our cultural response is "you don't deserve any of MY food, because I worked hard for it and I made good choices, and you obviously didn't, and I get rewards for my choices and you get consequences for yours.  Adios."

A cultural response rooted in grace would simply be "you can have some of my food because you are hungry."  Period.  That's it.  We don't take care of our mentally ill, so we have a giant homeless problem.  We don't take care of our addicts, so we have a giant homeless and crime problem.  We don't take care of children at risk, so we create a huge chunk of adults who start out behind the 8-ball, more likely to fall into a cycle of poverty, crime, etc.  We don't take care of our sick, causing millions of families either to go without medical care or to go bankrupt because they went into debt to get it.  Etc. etc.

No culture is perfect, sure, we all get that.  But we've gone so all-in on toxic individualism, and the concept that every circumstance of everyone's life is a DESERVED reward or consequence, which precludes us messing with the process of cosmic justice -- I am good, I get my rewards, you are bad, you get consequences (and note....it's always someone ELSE who made bad choices....in our own minds, any bad circumstances for us are almost always about bad luck and such).  You can't have any of my abundance, because I deserve it all, and you deserve nothing.

A little bit of grace would teach us what Clint said -- "deserve's got nothing to do with it."  I won't say it has NOTHING to do with it, but it doesn't have as much to do with it as you think.  Putting a plate of food in front of someone only as a reward for what we deem to be "good choices," vs. putting a plate of food in front of someone because they are hungry in that moment, and we have the means to feed them, are very, very different things.  We would all be better off if our ethos was more heavily the second option than the first.

My wife noted this as actually annoying her when she gets repeated feedback from people with respect to the refugee family (and particularly the kids) who we help out.  People in various programs, schools, etc., tell us (mostly her) "It's so good of you to do this.  It's amazing what you are doing."  She doesn't know what to say.  She gets annoyed by it.  Because here answer is "we do it because it's right, and because we can, and that's that."  And truly, that's that.  I have no idea how much money or time we've given to just that small effort, to just a couple of people.  And I don't much care.  We're no saints.  That's kind of the point.  Being decent shouldn't be saint-ish or exceptional.  It should be a more integral part of our natural character.  That's the work we all need to do.  The more of us who truly believe and act that way, the more likely we are to end up with a state, nation, and government that's governed that way.

[F250 28778]

48 minutes ago, Catpfish said:

My wife's cousin and wife fostered two boys (one born addicted and going through withdrawals).  They were approached by CPS about fostering the boy's two sisters which they gladly did.  They are soon to be the adoptive parents of the four children.  They were approached by CPS that the mother was pregnant again (and still on drugs) and asking them to take the fifth child.  They declined and it almost wrecked them emotionally to do it.  They are really great kids that got dealt a shit hand.

Fostering is very difficult. It's much more of an emotional sacrifice than a time/monetary one.

Think about how much you love and care for your children and how valuable their sibling relationship is to you. Now Imagine that you have no assurance that your children will remain under your care and protection 3 months from now or that you cannot guarantee your children will remain together. That is what fostering is like.

We fostered a little girl from right before Kinder to First grade and then her mom got her act together and jumped through the hoops to get back custody. One of the most haunting memories I'll never get over is that little girl telling me she didn't want to leave. About 11 years later I got a phone call from her while I was driving down the highway. I had to pull over because I couldn't stop crying and laughing because she turned out ok and was telling me about her life.  She ended up being raised by a grand-aunt in Houston. 
 

 

[fattyflattie 4639]

1 hour ago, Catpfish said:

My wife's cousin and wife fostered two boys (one born addicted and going through withdrawals).  They were approached by CPS about fostering the boy's two sisters which they gladly did.  They are soon to be the adoptive parents of the four children.  They were approached by CPS that the mother was pregnant again (and still on drugs) and asking them to take the fifth child.  They declined and it almost wrecked them emotionally to do it.  They are really great kids that got dealt a shit hand.

Your family sounds pretty awesome, and it’s amazing they can do that.  The fact that woman is about to have her fifth drug addled child is exactly why this goes past CR and the abortion laws caused all of this narrative. 

[bernorange 8362]

I watched the movie Instant Family last night.  This thread hits hard.

[crash_davis 23113]

4 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Your family sounds pretty awesome, and it’s amazing they can do that.  The fact that woman is about to have her fifth drug addled child is exactly why this goes past CR and the abortion laws caused all of this narrative. 

Abortion laws did not cause this. A whole myriad of issues do. But the abortion ban sure the fuck isn't going to help and will make it worse. 

So people want to ban abortions, are they going to make it easier to get access to birth control to prevent the pregnancies? Fake christian pharmacist want to deny women birth control because muh religious rights, but then want the baby born and then not give any help/welfare to help give the baby a better life success chance than the mother had. 

Fake christian pharmacists need to stop filling boner medicine because it offends their fake religious sensibilities. The old fuckers in state and US legislatures would surely freak the fuck out about that.

 

[Brisketexan 105154]

41 minutes ago, F250 said:

Fostering is very difficult. It's much more of an emotional sacrifice than a time/monetary one.

Think about how much you love and care for your children and how valuable their sibling relationship is to you. Now Imagine that you have no assurance that your children will remain under your care and protection 3 months from now or that you cannot guarantee your children will remain together. That is what fostering is like.

We fostered a little girl from right before Kinder to First grade and then her mom got her act together and jumped through the hoops to get back custody. One of the most haunting memories I'll never get over is that little girl telling me she didn't want to leave. About 11 years later I got a phone call from her while I was driving down the highway. I had to pull over because I couldn't stop crying and laughing because she turned out ok and was telling me about her life.  She ended up being raised by a grand-aunt in Houston. 
 

 

Dude.....what an awesome story.

And yeah, it's hard as hell giving your heart, even a part of it, to someone else's life.  The world's a big place, but our hearts are big enough to love everyone in the whole damned thing.  Whether it's for a moment, a year, or a lifetime, giving that love means so damned much.  It's our greatest calling, and a gift that can be so easily given.

Good on you, dude.  Walk the path, spread the love.  It's what we're called to do.

[DonkeyCigars 143]

14 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

I remember watching Freakonomics and it was fascinating how they tied the reduction of crime in the 90s to the passage of Row v Wade twenty years earlier. 

I thought I read that was later debunked (as a lot of pop-psychology/business and gladwellian type stuff goes).

[crash_davis 23113]

10 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

I thought I read that was later debunked (as a lot of pop-psychology/business and gladwellian type stuff goes).

i present to you the rabbit hole.

https://freakonomics.com/2005/05/15/abortion-and-crime-who-should-you-believe/

i'm sure there are rebuttals to his rebuttal. 

[NeverMarryAStripper 21907]

Seems like kind of a moot point since by 2017 abortions rates had fallen below the pre Roe v Wade levels

[fattyflattie 4639]

45 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

Abortion laws did not cause this. A whole myriad of issues do. But the abortion ban sure the fuck isn't going to help and will make it worse. 

So people want to ban abortions, are they going to make it easier to get access to birth control to prevent the pregnancies? Fake christian pharmacist want to deny women birth control because muh religious rights, but then want the baby born and then not give any help/welfare to help give the baby a better life success chance than the mother had. 

Fake christian pharmacists need to stop filling boner medicine because it offends their fake religious sensibilities. The old fuckers in state and US legislatures would surely freak the fuck out about that.

 

Fwiw, I’m personally not in favor, but fall with the D’s on it (excepting the late late late stuff). I’m a “it’s between them and their God” view.     But crackheads are still going to crackhead.  But posts 3,4,6, and 8 pointed to it immediately out of the gate.  So yeah, it’ll have an effect. Likely so would nuclear families, less drug addiction, more education.  But sure, it’s abortion and Christians. 

[conVINCEd 21469]

Cousin and her husband tried to do the foster parent thing several years ago.  The only reason I even know about it is because they took her in a few days before my wedding and brought her with them.  Nice, sweet little girl, probably 5 or 6 years old,  who was smiling all night and having a great time.  It didn’t last a week.  I’m not going to go into detail about what happened, but they were very concerned about the safety of their other children.  There are no easy answers here, and I’m not sure there are any difficult answers either.

Edited September 9, 2021 by conVINCEd

[sheeeit 129]

Great topic and, mostly, great responses.  Apologies in advance but this is going to be long.

I will try very hard not to make this political but it certainly has to have some bearing on the discussion because any viable solution/mitigation will have to include a political aspect.

I have thought about this a lot and I have an actual plan that would make this problem, the over abundance of kids in foster care, shrink dramatically but it is certainly controversial.  And the same people who act all indignant about the situation and blame everyone else are almost universally the same people who contribute to the majority of the problem.  The only true way to mitigate this problem is to come at it almost exclusively from the angle of what is best for the newborn versus what is best for the birth mother.

If you look at the demographic make up of 90% or more of kids in foster care you find several recurring themes:

1) They are born into very poor situations

2) They are born into drug/alcohol addicted situations

3) They are born to single parent homes

4) They are born to people on some sort of government assistance

The problem with our system is that we deem a family situation as "unfit" and remove the child long after all of the damage is done.  Babies are extremely resilient and as long as they are held, fed, allowed to sleep and are provided with loving attention then their brains will almost always develop well.  However, if any of those things are missing the resultant trauma is crushing and, in most cases, virtually impossible to recover from.  It is devastating and the damage is done as early as the first few months of life.  The sad and cruel reality is that most kids in foster care are beyond help psychologically.  Of course with therapy and medication some will improve but it is rare.  It is devastating and heartbreaking.  

My proposed solution is removing newborns from the situation at birth.  I know that sounds hard and extreme but, as noted above, if you want a mentally healthy kid you have to provide for their basic needs immediately after birth.  Not in 6 months or 3 years.  Immediately.  The problem becomes how do we objectively determine when a newborn should be taken from a birth mother.  I would suggest the following:

Any woman giving birth that has a combination of all of the following should not be able to keep a baby- 1) Already has 1 child in their care (we all make mistakes) and 2) Is already on some sort of govt assistance and 3) Is a single parent household.  That is an objective set of circumstances that would make that person an unfit parent and the state would have the obligation to remove the child from the mother immediately.

This is not some harsh criticism of mothers.  Personally, I do not think we, as a collective society, do enough to help out people that are struggling.  Many, many people have been dealt hard blows in life and deserve our support to help get back on their feet.  However, we are talking about responsibilities.  A mother in the current situation that I described above (having all 3 components simultaneously) has already demonstrated that they are in need of help and struggling and the absolute last thing they need and the absolute least responsible thing they can do (on some level for themselves but 100% for their unborn child) is to have another baby.  Again, if you look at the make-up of kids in foster care (or do some research on the backgrounds of about 90% of people on death row), a large percentage fall into this category.  There is just no sane reason, at all, for a baby to have to go live in that environment.  The odds of that baby growing up physically and mentally healthy are about nil.

It is weird that it is almost never talked about but the number of newborns that are currently in foster care is exactly ZERO.  There are long, long waiting lists of people wanting to adopt newborns (and willing to pay for all of the costs associated with the pregnancy and birth).  And, most importantly, there is a long list of studies that show, unequivocally, that babies adopted at birth have the exact same percentage of wellness as those who are raised by their birth mother.  There is just a terrible myth that babies are better off with their birth mother.  That may be true in cases where a baby/child has already bonded with their birth mother but it is not true, at all, with newborns.

This already too long so I will stop here for now but am happy to discuss/debate this further.

On a final note, some other things should be present also.  

Abortion- While I may not like abortion and am very much pro adoption I do not think we should outlaw abortion.  I think the Texas law (and I admit that I do not know all of the nuances) seems way too restrictive.  I think a sensible law would be that once a woman has been medically advised that they are pregnant and a heart beat is detected/present that they then have a 7 day window (or similar) to weigh their options and make a decision to have an abortion.  But after that then I am fine with outlawing the procedure.

Contraception- I think contraception should be basically free in most forms.  I further think that any woman that wants an IUD (or similar) should be able to get one free.  These types of contraception are mostly foolproof, require no immediate action (think no forgetting to take a pill or not having a condom or whatever) and are completely reversible if/when a woman decides she wants to get pregnant.

Deadbeat Parents (Mostly dads)- I think it is a disgrace that we do not do more as a society to get these people to live up to their financial responsibilities.  It is a hard number to get an accurate accounting of but most studies say there is about $100 Billion a year in unpaid child support.  Being present is probably more important but doing the absolute minimum required by law from a financial standpoint seems like something we should be able to enforce more effectively.

 

[BearSchlong 8098]

Many times kids are removed and placed with grandparents, aunts/uncles, and close family friends.  If it wasn't for extended family and loved ones stepping up and taking custody the situation would be way worse.

One positive thing is that starting last week CPS will no longer remove kids from households just because the parents use marijuana.  From the sidelines I've seen so many bullshit situations where caseworkers have to insert themselves into a family where the parent's only "sin" is testing positive for THC.  Anecdotally, parents who smoke weed are WAY better than those that abuse alcohol.  Much less violence and neglect, if anything the kids are overfed.

Of course many times my wife has gone to the hospital and taken custody of newborns born addicted to cocaine, heroin/opiates and meth, just awful situations.  She tries to firewall me from it all because of privacy policy, but when you're married you can't help but overhear things.  Plus the last Friday of every month she hosts a dinner/wine night/card games for all her coworkers.

Most of y'all know I'm a 10 year + recovered alcoholic and both my wife and I are very active in the 12 step recovery community.  My wife will accompany me to a meeting where I'm picking up a yearly sobriety anniversary token and many times she will see a mother who is either on or who was on her caseload who is blown away that she is married to an alcoholic.  On our very first date, our waitress happened to be a mom whose kid she had removed - but she got clean and successfully resolved her CPS case.

The obvious answer is more treatment centers for addicted moms.  It's well accepted that 10% of the population is succeptable to addiction/alcoholism.

I just finished a book about the Sacklers and Oxycontin, and Texas is actually very lucky that it had strict triplicate prescription policies in place prior to the opiate crisis - the Purdue Pharma marketing machine largely ignored Texas because it was just too much trouble to push pills when other states were basically not paying attention.  But now that fentanyl is here all bets are off.

From where I sit, the only sure fire baseline solution that I've seen work is when the parent finds a higher power - whether it's in church, temple, AA, or NA.  A reason to change the way they are living.  Athiests/agnostics get clean/sober too.

Someone gets a DUI and the first thing the judge does is make them attend AA. . .I've signed at least 1,000 probation/court papers for those people.  If a mom is amenable, we've got drug intervention court where the judge directs them into treatment and/or recovery.  I just rememberd that 5 or so years ago I actually spoke for an hour about my own sobriety to a courtroom packed with moms/dads in that program.

But hey, I see that to someone like me, that seems obvious.  To a hammer, everything looks like a nail, right?

Edited September 9, 2021 by BearSchlong

[pch 1259]

23 hours ago, Updawg said:

Been going on in Texas forever. Overworked staff and underpaid. It’s a brutal job, I’ve only known a few last past 10 years. The agency is very defensive and rightfully so

Texas would rather outsource it as much as they can. But yeah, once you are born you are fucked in Texas

Having been a CPS caseworker from 1985-86 in two small counties along the Red River, I can promise you this is spot on.  The burnout rate for staff was 18 months back then and I bet it is even less these days.  Unfortunately, because the victims of abuse, abandonment, and neglect don't bring a lot to the table in terms of political clout and therefore funding for services is not in the top ten priority wise.

[mchookem 16336]

9 hours ago, conVINCEd said:

Cousin and her husband tried to do the foster parent thing several years ago.  The only reason I even know about it is because they took her in a few days before my wedding and brought her with them.  Nice, sweet little girl, probably 5 or 6 years old,  who was smiling all night and having a great time.  It didn’t last a week.  I’m not going to go into detail about what happened, but they were very concerned about the safety of their other children.  There are no easy answers here, and I’m not sure there are any difficult answers either.

 

 

 

 

(sorry, just some levity for a terribly tragic topic)

[pacman 7359]

I've told this story before on the Longhorn internet.

We've been deep in this system, so we have many stories but this one fits the current news cycle.

In a state so strict on abortion, we worked with a couple desperate to get permanent birth control on the male. Snip snip.

They weren't horrible people just wholly incapable of taking care of children, and even themselves almost. Intellectually delayed, broke, and all mixed in with their own very poor upbringing.

They would have a child and then loose it around a year old. Happened 3 times.

In a moment of clarity, the male begs to take the funds available and get himself fixed. Unusual request but the funds are there to support them in any fashion. Better push it up the chain due to the nature of request. The request went to the highest parts of the agency.

Not only did it get denied. The State leadership clarified the funds should not be used for any form of contraceptive or birth control.

[Newdoc 3448]

6 minutes ago, pacman said:

The State leadership clarified the funds should not be used for any form of contraceptive or birth control.

This is a big part of how you fix the foster system. Why are we always trying to fix things in this country when the horse is already out of the barn? No true emphasis on birth control, just like no avoiding chronic disease and obesity, no early intensive or comprehensive management of mental illness. We waste so many resources on half assed crap that does very little to change outcomes.

[Brisketexan 105154]

This is a big part of how you fix the foster system. Why are we always trying to fix things in this country when the horse is already out of the barn? No true emphasis on birth control, just like no avoiding chronic disease and obesity, no early intensive or comprehensive management of mental illness. We waste so many resources on half assed crap that does very little to change outcomes.

It’s not just that we waste resources and efforts….we actually work AGAINST things that might help.

We’re stupid for the sake of being stupid. Short-sighted dumbassery is its own reward, or something.

[DeweyCox 366]

I’ve been a CASA volunteer on and off for the past 12 years. My wife is now a CASA volunteer. In my area, I’d estimate that ~75% of cases originate from meth use by both parents, with most of the remainder being sexual abuse cases. Meth is so devastating to the families I’ve dealt with. I’d say I’ve been involved with 40 or so cases through the years. The state will never make a good parent. The kids’ lives are already so full of neglect, abuse and distrust, in most cases, in their formative years that they are just really way behind the curve in so many important aspects of life like emotional development, sense of belonging/security,  intellectual development, etc. As for the state and volunteers such as CASA…just try to do the best you can for the child. Ideal is out the window. Just pursue best interest as best you can.

I’ve seen many, many kids with parents who continually prioritize drugs over the welfare of their child. So often, in my experience, the child still voices that they’d like to remain with the parent(s) who have abused or neglected them. Ideally, unfit people wouldn’t have kids. That comment actually seems creepy to say. If they do have kids and the state has to intervene to protect the immediate safety of the child, then hopefully the parent(s) would dedicate to become adequate parents and regain custody. Doesn’t happen nearly often enough.

 

It would be getting into some sketchy territory, ethically, if taxpayer dollars were used to “snip-snip”, or other such methods of contraception. I think we’d all like for everyone to be a responsible contributor to society instead of being a burden, but…you can wish in one hand and crap in the other. 
 

Lawmakers will always be chasing their tail. The state will never make a good parent. Jesus is the answer. If  everyone loved like Jesus…well that must be heaven.
 

 

[Balcones 313]

On 9/8/2021 at 9:39 PM, Updawg said:
Texas would rather outsource it as much as they can. But yeah, once you are born you are fucked in Texas

Maybe we should poll the kids. Would you rather be aborted or alive in the Texas CPS system?