What, no Joe Manchin thread?

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19141]

1 minute ago, workswithseed said:

They're also tax payers, but yes corporate welfare should be nil. I mean I don't think they're gods among men, since they themselves are just men, but the question was why should we care if it doesn't affect us, and those are the ways we're affected.

Except shit like this DOES impact me.  I have paid a significantly higher effective tax rate since 2018 so that billionaires and corporations could get more tax breaks.  Fuck off.

Edited December 23, 2021 by PenelopeWitherspoon

[Sawbonz 27583]

3 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

Why not?  Businesses get deductions for a lot of crazy shit that individuals don't.  That is more of that corporate welfare for you.  Why not make them the same?  If a business can depreciate a building where it resides or take rent payments and only pay tax on net income, individuals should be able to do the same thing.  Individuals basically pay a Gross Revenue Tax.  Businesses get a net income tax.  It is fucking bullshit.

Are you saying businesses should pay income tax on gross revenue?

[Anastasis 23481]

Highly compensated professionals working on a W2 get fucked every way on their taxes.  

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19141]

4 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Are you saying businesses should pay income tax on gross revenue?

Why not?  We as individuals do.  Do you not see how unfair that is?  That is why I am all for individuals getting to deduct necessary expenses like rent/home depreciation and food.    

Edited December 23, 2021 by PenelopeWitherspoon

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19141]

1 minute ago, Anastasis said:

Highly compensated professionals working on a W2 get fucked every way on their taxes.  

Yep.  And it is bullshit.

[Sawbonz 27583]

Just now, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

Why not?  We as individuals do.  Do you not see how unfair that is?  

I own a few businesses.  I also pay income tax on w2 1099 and K1 income. If I pay gross revenue tax on the businesses should the income (if any money is left to pay myself as income) then be taxed as well?  
 

 

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19141]

3 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Highly compensated professionals working on a W2 get fucked every way on their taxes.  

Now imagine you live in a state where you SALT has been kneecapped as well.  It is a double whammy.  

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19141]

Just now, Sawbonz said:

I own a few businesses.  I also pay income tax on w2 1099 and K1 income. If I pay gross revenue tax on the businesses should the income (if any money is left to pay myself as income) then be taxed as well?  
 

 

No.  I am very much of the opinion that double taxation is really shitty.  They have written a myriad of rules to make sure that dividends are not double taxed to the corporation (though say fuck you to the individual taxpayer which is again, bullshit).  It is why it is bullshit that they take income taxes on social security.  Social security is not a deductible tax.  So you shouldn't pay income tax on the distributions from it.  That was a temporary measure that somehow never actually went away.  

[Sawbonz 27583]

5 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

No.  I am very much of the opinion that double taxation is really shitty.  They have written a myriad of rules to make sure that dividends are not double taxed to the corporation (though say fuck you to the individual taxpayer which is again, bullshit).  It is why it is bullshit that they take income taxes on social security.  Social security is not a deductible tax.  So you shouldn't pay income tax on the distributions from it.  That was a temporary measure that somehow never actually went away.  

I would trade a gross revenue tax on the business side for it paying income taxes on the personal side. That’s not how it works though 

[Dahobbs 17644]

9 hours ago, fattyflattie said:

I don’t see why the Elon hate. Dude seems to be at least trying.  Fucking Bezos taking a 70k annual salary and still claiming deductions and whatnot is bitchmade.  I’m 100x more disgusted with him and his inability to pay his share than any other notable B.  They need to get together and code red that fucker  

 

1 hour ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

Elon Musk is a not a great human being.  Has been for a long, long time.  

I don't hate Elon Musk or other billionaires. In fact, I quite like what Musk has done. Me wanting him taxed more isn't because I hate him. It's because I think our resources need to be distributed more evenly. Not completely even mind you, but certainly not with 50% ending up in the hands of 1%.  

46 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Again you are not addressing what I am saying. 10% pay 90%. 1% pay 40%. Everyone above the poverty line needs to contribute. I would be for taxing all income the same regardless of source. That would fix the effective tax rate discrepancy. I would never agree to a wealth tax

 

eta I would be for higher top marginal rates and more brackets as well

We already have a wealth tax, at least in Texas and most other states. It is called property tax. The problem with it is that the form of property it axes, real estate, tends to be a large percentage of the assets of the middle class and a small percentage of the assets of the truly wealthy. Personally, I'd be in favor of getting rid of income taxes entirely and moving to a smaller percentage tax one's entire wealth. I do agree that at the very least I believe we need to stop taxing regular income more than capital gains. That just punishes people that work for a living. 

[Sawbonz 27583]

5 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

We already have a wealth tax, at least in Texas and most other states. It is called property tax.

Of course. And in Texas at least unless you have a very high income and choose to live in a relatively moderate home you would be better off w a state income tax

 

But I personally don’t want to see this on the federal level and expanded to other assets

[MonkeyCigarette 143]

1 hour ago, SimonBolivar said:

Who cares? You can't debate on something unless it's going to happen?

My comment was more about realizing that the mental masturbation that goes on here with respect to social and especially tax policy is so divorced from reality that sometimes we forget, because of all the griping and crying by a minority of posters who represent a minority of Texas and America, that the cloak room is like a bunch of college freshman getting high in the dorm room and saying outlandish things instead of being anchored in reality in context of a nation of 300mm people and a large divide between two immense population and political groups.

 

Edited December 23, 2021 by MonkeyCigarette

[MonkeyCigarette 143]

49 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

Yep.  And it is bullshit.

 

 

51 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Highly compensated professionals working on a W2 get fucked every way on their taxes.  

We finally all agree on something! chi doc is different because he actually has 8 or 9 figures, but for most of us on here who work, we are HENRY’s (High Earners Not Rich Yet) and HENRY’s must turn liquid cash into equity if we ever want to escape being a HENRY before the sand is finished pouring on our HE days.

Edited December 23, 2021 by MonkeyCigarette

[elfenix 34331]

1 hour ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

No.  I am very much of the opinion that double taxation is really shitty.  They have written a myriad of rules to make sure that dividends are not double taxed to the corporation (though say fuck you to the individual taxpayer which is again, bullshit).  It is why it is bullshit that they take income taxes on social security.  Social security is not a deductible tax.  So you shouldn't pay income tax on the distributions from it.  That was a temporary measure that somehow never actually went away.  

well there's that whole incorporated businesses are a separate entity thing.  it's not just your alter ego. 

[Longhorn_Fan68 33884]

3 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

He was born in a manger because there was no room in the inn not because Joseph, a skilled tradesmen, couldn’t afford a room.  They weren’t refugees at the time. They were in Bethlehem because a census was ordered and it was Joseph’s home town.  The town of David. Joseph was a direct descendant of David (and Solomon).  
 

None of this really matters. But your post has a dubious factual premise.  

never mind the fact none of that actually happened

[JimmyJames 12271]

1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

Highly compensated professionals working on a W2 get fucked every way on their taxes.  

This. Nothing drives me crazier when it comes to taxes when some dipshit making $100k-$150k on a W-2 says he’s voting republican because the Dems are gonna tax them more. I’m look look motherfucker you’re focusing on the completely wrong issue.
 

You and everyone else should be paying lower taxes but the reason you’re not is because both parties in the past 40 years won’t tax the ultra rich what they should because the ultra rich control both parties. The only difference is that with the Dems in control at least there’s a chance of this changing. With the republicans in charge you’re just handing control of the country to the billionaires. 
 

We’re actually watching this play out in real time right now. Many Dems want to raise taxes on the ultra rich but can’t because of fucksticks like Joe Manchin and that crazy corrupt bitch in Arizona preventing it from happening.
 

The billionaires have figured out you don’t have to control all the Dems just enough of them. Then get all the rubes to vote Republican against their own economic interests cause guns, bortion and God and voila. No more taxes on the ultra wealthy. 

Edited December 23, 2021 by JimmyJames

[elfenix 34331]

2 hours ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

Why do businesses get to deduct things like rent and depreciation for buildings when individual taxpayers do not?  See how this works?  

this is part of the rationale for the standard deduction and personal exemptions. 

[Sawbonz 27583]

6 minutes ago, elfenix said:

this is part of the rationale for the standard deduction and personal exemptions. 

I would definitely be for increasing the amounts on these. Ironically (but in hindsight unsurprisingly) the so-called tax reform that Trump and company passed did more harm than good to middle and high income w2 earners and small businesses, especially those in the medical field

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19141]

1 minute ago, Sawbonz said:

I would definitely be for increasing the amounts on these. Ironically (but in hindsight unsurprisingly) the so-called tax reform that Trump and company passed did more harm than good to middle and high income w2 earners and small businesses, especially those in the medical field

Yep.  It was bullshit.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19141]

9 minutes ago, elfenix said:

this is part of the rationale for the standard deduction and personal exemptions. 

And they need to be much higher.  They also should bring in COLA adjustments.  I make more because the cost of living is more.  The feds shouldn’t get more of my income vs. someone in Texas.  The system is very, very unfair to a lot of folks.  

[Smax 3800]

 

11 hours ago, JimmyJames said:

Good. Go fuck your self snd lick some other boots troll. You are wasting your worthless time here. Your posts mean zero. Fuck off. 

2 hours ago, JimmyJames said:

Yeah that’s a neg.  Fuck off with this pompous and meaningless crap.

 

lol classic

[workswithseed 2109]

1 hour ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

Except shit like this DOES impact me.  I have paid a significantly higher effective tax rate since 2018 so that billionaires and corporations could get more tax breaks.  Fuck off.

Cap them at a billion, because you get taxed astronomically, and seeing your other post about being double taxed, I'd also be pissed. 

Definitely don't think that corporations should get tax breaks either, if you're not going to do it for all businesses that have to compete with someone that has a leg up because of government giving them a good deal. Like the Amazon deal in NY.

[elfenix 34331]

7 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

if you're not going to do it for all businesses that have to compete with someone that has a leg up because of government giving them a good deal. Like the Amazon deal in NY.

these are definitely bullshit.

[StassneyHorn 6624]

5 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

He was born in a manger because there was no room in the inn not because Joseph, a skilled tradesmen, couldn’t afford a room.  They weren’t refugees at the time. They were in Bethlehem because a census was ordered and it was Joseph’s home town.  The town of David. Joseph was a direct descendant of David (and Solomon).  
 

None of this really matters. But your post has a dubious factual premise.  

Please reach out to the 4 individuals who liked this nonsense that Jesus was a refugee per the last 2 popes.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19141]

2 hours ago, workswithseed said:

Cap them at a billion, because you get taxed astronomically, and seeing your other post about being double taxed, I'd also be pissed. 

Definitely don't think that corporations should get tax breaks either, if you're not going to do it for all businesses that have to compete with someone that has a leg up because of government giving them a good deal. Like the Amazon deal in NY.

I have forgotten more about tax laws and regs than you have ever known.  Please let the adults have their discussion without chiming in from the peanut gallery.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

58 minutes ago, StassneyHorn said:

Please reach out to the 4 individuals who liked this nonsense that Jesus was a refugee per the last 2 popes.

I doubt they give a shit about what some pope says any more than I do.

[MonkeyCigarette 143]

1 minute ago, Johnny Sack said:

I doubt they give a shit about what some pope says any more than I do.

That’s the funniest part of that reply. As if the modern day Pharisees is to be revered or has spiritual authority.

[UpperWestside 6186]

On 12/22/2021 at 11:01 AM, jimmyjazz said:

@Johnny Sack:  Born on third base and thinks he hit a triple.

These are the things where it is just incredulous to me that people who were born with every advantage in life just cannot comprehend what it is like to not have them. The disdain Sack has for the less fortunate is something I find to be disgusting.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33884]

5 minutes ago, UpperWestside said:

These are the things where it is just incredulous to me that people who were born with every advantage in life just cannot comprehend what it is like to not have them. The disdain Sack has for the less fortunate is something I find to be disgusting.

it's even worse knowing people who came up from nothing and are now wealthy. they want to kick the ladder down once they get to the top.

[jimmyjazz 46058]

1 minute ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

it's even worse knowing people who came up from nothing and are now wealthy. they want to kick the ladder down once they get to the top.

You mean like Governors who won a bunch of money in a lawsuit and then worked to limit subsequent, similar awards?

[workswithseed 2109]

1 hour ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

I have forgotten more about tax laws and regs than you have ever known.  Please let the adults have their discussion without chiming in from the peanut gallery.

Merry Christmas to you too.

[StassneyHorn 6624]

1 hour ago, MonkeyCigarette said:

That’s the funniest part of that reply. As if the modern day Pharisees is to be revered or has spiritual authority.

Your family still talks to you after the rape fantasy debacle?

[Johnny Sack 8397]

55 minutes ago, UpperWestside said:

These are the things where it is just incredulous to me that people who were born with every advantage in life just cannot comprehend what it is like to not have them. The disdain Sack has for the less fortunate is something I find to be disgusting.

I actually like to help the poor with my own money, not by keeping my money and trying to enact policies to give other people's money away. Or tweeting about how other people should be taxed more.

I believe modern leftist policies wanting big and inefficient government programs, while either well intentioned or using other's money to buy votes, do nothing to help the poor.  So you guys, in my view, are either evil or ignorant.

I do have disdain for people who make terrible choices.  And even more disdain for their enablers.  

I would encourage everyone to do things to actually help the poor.  Put your own money and time where your mouth is.  I strongly suspect most of the leftists on here have alligator arms when it comes to reaching into their own pockets to help the less fortunate.  That is typically the case in my experience and backed up by empirical evidence when you look at the data on charitable giving.

There is no excuse for being poor in the USA today.  Fast food restaurants are paying $15-20 per hour and offering $500 signing bonuses.  Graduate high school.  Work full time.  Don't abuse drugs or alcohol.  Don't commit felonies.  Don't have kids unless you can afford them.  

[JimmyJames 12271]

I always love it when the sack comes on here to post about how generous he is, how this board is just a bunch of evil and ignorant leftists, and it’s totally the poors fault they are poor due to bad decisions. It’s like an annual Christmas tradition now and good for a laugh like that story that guy tells about the Christmas lights in Waco. 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

28 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

I always love it when the sack comes on here to post about how generous he is, how this board is just a bunch of evil and ignorant leftists, and it’s totally the poors fault they are poor due to bad decisions. It’s like an annual Christmas tradition now and good for a laugh like that story that guy tells about the Christmas lights in Waco. 

Your have alligator arms are on the poor and on Burnt Ends.  Notably, you don't deny your lack of charitable giving.  Typical leftist.  

 

Edited December 23, 2021 by Johnny Sack

[hornmpa96 2620]

5 hours ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

And they need to be much higher.  They also should bring in COLA adjustments.  I make more because the cost of living is more.  The feds shouldn’t get more of my income vs. someone in Texas.  The system is very, very unfair to a lot of folks.  

I disagree with this. You have chosen to live in a high cost location. That’s on you. There is no need for the federal government to subsidize those choices.  

[Johnny Sack 8397]

2 minutes ago, hornmpa96 said:

I disagree with this. You have chosen to live in a high cost location. That’s on you. There is no need for the federal government to subsidize those choices.  

Some people who talk about other's not paying their fair share exclude themselves.

[jimmyjazz 46058]

20 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

I believe modern leftist policies wanting big and inefficient government programs, while either well intentioned or using other's money to buy votes, do nothing to help the poor.  So you guys, in my view, are either evil or ignorant.

Good point, except for that pesky fact that the budget deficit goes down when Democrats are in the White House, and the opposite occurs under Republicans.

Does that make you evil or ignorant?

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19141]

13 minutes ago, hornmpa96 said:

I disagree with this. You have chosen to live in a high cost location. That’s on you. There is no need for the federal government to subsidize those choices.  

Except for my federal tax dollars actually go to subsidize a lot of those low cost locations, Texas included.  $1 in Texas is not $1 in California or New York City.  And the truth is that Texas has become an absolutely horrible place to live if you are an educated woman.  

Edited December 23, 2021 by PenelopeWitherspoon

[Johnny Sack 8397]

2 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

Except for my federal tax dollars actually go to subsidize a lot of those low cost locations, Texas included.  

You should be happy to pay your fair share.

[Judge Roybeanbag 11819]

41 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

.  Don't have kids unless you can afford them.  

We have quite the conundrum here.   Because it’s either stop voting for people who force you to have kids you can’t afford, or, don’t fuck until you’re mentally and financially responsible enough to raise a kid.  Neither of those things is happening currently.  Of course you never were in a position to have a kid you couldn’t afford either, so there’s that.  

[Johnny Sack 8397]

2 minutes ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

We have quite the conundrum here.   Because it’s either stop voting for people who force you to have kids you can’t afford, or, don’t fuck until you’re mentally and financially responsible enough to raise a kid.  Neither of those things is happening currently.  Of course you never were in a position to have a kid you couldn’t afford either, so there’s that.  

How does one get forced to have a kid?

[LW Goatman 1124]

21 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

Except for my federal tax dollars actually go to subsidize a lot of those low cost locations, Texas included.  $1 in Texas is not $1 in California or New York City.  And the truth is that Texas has become an absolutely horrible place to live if you are an educated woman.  

Texas doesn't work for you, fine. But there are plenty of women exceedingly more educated and successful than you that find Texas a good fit.

[Judge Roybeanbag 11819]

3 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

How does one get forced to have a kid?

Hurr durr.   You going to keep people from fucking, while limiting every birth control option up to and including abortion?  You know exactly what I’m saying.   You are into making people suffer for their poor decisions, while likely never having to face those decisions yourself, because you were born right.   Now that’s conjecture on my part, but I reckon it’s not untrue.  You’ve never been poor or desperate, or in a position where a pregnancy might wreck you.  

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19141]

9 minutes ago, LW Goatman said:

Texas doesn't work for you, fine. But there are plenty of women exceedingly more educated and successful than you that find Texas a good fit.

If a more educated and successful woman that I wants to be treated like a second class citizen and not have autonomy over her own body, then she isn't very fucking smart.  Negged since you actually don't know shit about me, and saying that there are "plenty" of women who are "exceedingly" more educated than I am is fucking laughable.  

Edited December 23, 2021 by PenelopeWitherspoon

[JimmyJames 12271]

46 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Your have alligator arms are on the poor and on Burnt Ends.  Notably, you don't deny your lack of charitable giving.  Typical leftist.  

 

The last person I need to prove anything to is to a holier than thou sack of shit like you on the internet. Your posts here give everyone a very clear picture of the type of person you are. It’s why you are always running away.

[LW Goatman 1124]

6 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

If a more educated and successful woman that I wants to be treated like a second class citizen and not have autonomy over her own body, then she isn't very fucking smart.  Negged since you actually don't know shit about me, and saying that there are "plenty" of women who are "exceedingly" more educated than I am is fucking laughable.  

Correct, I don't know you and don't claim to do so. But you come off as extremely petulant and sanctimonious. Its on full display in the post quoted above. 

[Smax 3800]

23 minutes ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

Hurr durr.   You going to keep people from fucking, while limiting every birth control option up to and including abortion?  You know exactly what I’m saying.   You are into making people suffer for their poor decisions, while likely never having to face those decisions yourself, because you were born right.   Now that’s conjecture on my part, but I reckon it’s not untrue.  You’ve never been poor or desperate, or in a position where a pregnancy might wreck you.  

 

 

You don't have to be poor or desperate, you can just be fucking someone you don't want to have kids with. Current birth control is not 100% effective

Edited December 23, 2021 by Smax

[Judge Roybeanbag 11819]

4 minutes ago, Smax said:

 

 

You don't have to be poor or desperate, you can just be fucking someone you don't want to have kids with. Current birth control is not 100% effective

No shit.  After that poor decision is made, and the person you don’t want to have kids with is 3 weeks pregnant, who wants to put a bounty on your head for reversing that poor decision?

[TwiceHorn 31520]

21 hours ago, bolverk said:

Don't want to put words into your mouth or question your beliefs, but there's a strong case to be made that Trump did does represent a different type of conservative. I want to say what you and Brooks are describing is the "neoconservative" wing of the GOP you/I grew up with. What Trump espoused during his candidacy and administration was more of a "paleoconservative" vision.

It was only recently that I came across a Wiki page citing Trump as an example of that ideology, which led me to this article. It also cites Pat Buchanan as a modern-day paleocon and draws the same parallel between him and Trump that I've been making for the past couple of years on this board but actually puts a name to it. It's part of the story I've told several times about how Buchanan's rising brand of conservatism led me away from the GOP in young adulthood.

https://www.vox.com/2016/5/6/11592604/donald-trump-paleoconservative-buchanan

Didn't like Buchanan, either.