What, no Joe Manchin thread?

[Johnny Sack 8397]

1 minute ago, Willfully Horn said:

No, I don’t think it did. But I think it will.

Your other suggestions have merit, though I still refuse to condemn folks who run afoul of your moral code. Further, I don’t share it. I would posit it is immoral to renounce our responsibility to care for others, especially the weak and impoverished.

And I think the policies the left supports creates more weak and impoverished and thus I think those policies are detestable.  So here we are.  

[Dahobbs 17534]

2 minutes ago, 6th Street said:

It would be easier to call for higher tax rates on billionaires if our govt wasn't so fucking wasteful. Blowing trillions on some bullshit wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Bridges to nowhere. The F35 JSF program. You could double Elon's tax rate and it wouldn't make any difference to the average American because the govt would just piss it away on some horseshit with zero oversight rather than spend it on building roads, hospitals, affordable health care, etc.

I can get behind this. Of course, unfortunately the only things both parties can agree on is pork and military spending. 

[fattyflattie 4639]

35 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Fatty's naked contempt for poor people is one of the grosser traits of any poster on this site.

Grosser than you wanting to take every inch of them?   And for the record, I only dislike poor Americans. I feel tremendously awful for the poor in places where there is no other way.  There is absolutely 0 excuse to be poor in America. 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

1 minute ago, ChuckNorrisActionJeans said:

"The father of three shouldn't have kids unless he can afford them. It's immoral to expect others to pay for the care of offspring you chose to have."  Why do males always disappear from the equation?

Singles mothers who are the ones actually taking care of these kids < single dads who may or may not have anything to do with offspring. Your bias is obvious. And I bet you're "pro-life" too because the women (only the women) chose to open their legs so it's on them. What a sickeningly narrow world view. Cue Sack: "I don't like deadbeat dads hurr durr"

Parents, mothers, fathers, and/or birthing people shouldn’t have kids unless they have the means to support them.  I don’t know why anyone disagrees with this.  

[ChuckNorrisActionJeans 2663]

I guess the lack of upward mobility over the last several decades is just because people are lazy now, when they weren't before when we had policies that allowed for post-WW2 prosperity.

Edited December 22, 2021 by ChuckNorrisActionJeans

[Johnny Sack 8397]

2 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Grosser than you wanting to take every inch of them?   And for the record, I only dislike poor Americans. I feel tremendously awful for the poor in places where there is no other way.  There is absolutely 0 excuse to be poor in America. 

You are about to hear a whole lot of excuses now.  
 

My only modification is if you are born with no significant physical disabilities and have an IQ north of 80, there isn’t an excuse to be poor in the United States.   

[Johnny Sack 8397]

Just now, ChuckNorrisActionJeans said:

I guess the lack of upward mobility over the last several decades is just because people are lazy now, when they weren't before and which coincided with policies that allowed for post-WW2 prosperity.

I’d suggest government regulations that leftists love that only big business can afford and crush small businesses are the biggest constraint on upward mobility.  

[Dahobbs 17534]

1 minute ago, fattyflattie said:

Grosser than you wanting to take every inch of them?   And for the record, I only dislike poor Americans. I feel tremendously awful for the poor in places where there is no other way.  There is absolutely 0 excuse to be poor in America. 

Why do you thinking taxing more means taxing all? I don't think we should take everything from the rich for the same reason that I think we should provide to the poor. Society exists to help all of us. Let's do that. And let's do it in a way that builds the best world we can have. And I believe that means allowing an incentive for success, including the building of wealth. But that right shouldn't be unlimited and should be tempered by goal of helping everyone in society prosper. 

[ChuckNorrisActionJeans 2663]

5 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Parents, mothers, fathers, and/or birthing people shouldn’t have kids unless they have the means to support them.  I don’t know why anyone disagrees with this.  

So you are in favor of access to abortion, I take it.

[fattyflattie 4639]

4 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Parents, mothers, fathers, and/or birthing people shouldn’t have kids unless they have the means to support them.  I don’t know why anyone disagrees with this.  

Because without the free shit army they don’t have a party. 

[Brew 3049]

Just now, Johnny Sack said:

Parents, mothers, fathers, and/or birthing people shouldn’t have kids unless they have the means to support them.  I don’t know why anyone disagrees with this.  

I don’t know that anyone would disagree with the thought process on not having kids if you can’t afford them. However, most people understand that it’s going to happen, so standing at the pulpit screaming at people for having them isn’t going to accomplish anything. Now the kid is here, guess what we all have to deal with it. With the change in abortion law, now even more kids will be here and we all have to deal with it. I wish more of the people that go overseas for adoptions would focus on adopting in country. We have our fair share of kids that need help.

[ChuckNorrisActionJeans 2663]

3 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

I’d suggest government regulations that leftists love that only big business can afford and crush small businesses are the biggest constraint on upward mobility.  

For one thing, a much bigger impact is the astronomical rise in college tuition/lessened state funding for state universities so that a BA is more out of reach for most without crushing student debt. 

[Willfully Horn 8013]

12 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

And I think the policies the left supports creates more weak and impoverished and thus I think those policies are detestable.  So here we are.  

Sounds like a good subject to discuss in a dedicated thread.

[MonkeyCigarette 143]

6 minutes ago, ChuckNorrisActionJeans said:

I guess the lack of upward mobility over the last several decades is just because people are lazy now, when they weren't before when we had policies that allowed for post-WW2 prosperity.

post WW2 prosperity was artificial and never meant to be permanent at scale.

[hobbes2702 13032]

There are truly some a absolutely disgusting, detestable posts in the last two pages of this thread.

[fattyflattie 4639]

2 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Why do you thinking taxing more means taxing all? I don't think we should take everything from the rich for the same reason that I think we should provide to the poor. Society exists to help all of us. Let's do that. And let's do it in a way that builds the best world we can have. And I believe that means allowing an incentive for success, including the building of wealth. But that right shouldn't be unlimited and should be tempered by goal of helping everyone in society prosper. 

I don’t believe you mean tax all, and don’t believe I stated that. But I don’t have a single issue with someone having a trillion dollars if they’ve built it.  They need to pay their share (Elon seems to be the only one, really) like the rest of us and get about their lives.  Just because he’s got money doesn’t mean we some fry cook that decided to do drugs and knock up women in high school  a better life. No, you made your shit ass choices.  Elon doesn’t owe you shit. Go turn the fucking fries and hope you don’t fuck it up in your next life. 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

1 minute ago, ChuckNorrisActionJeans said:

So you are in favor of access to abortion, I take it.

Adoption is the moral choice given the long waiting lists.  Legally, I don’t have a problem with abortion prior to when there is a heartbeat or brain waves.  Science says the lack of both is death.  So presence of both is life.  So whenever that is would be my line.  

[Dahobbs 17534]

2 minutes ago, Brew said:

I don’t know that anyone would disagree with the thought process on not having kids if you can’t afford them. However, most people understand that it’s going to happen, so standing at the pulpit screaming at people for having them isn’t going to accomplish anything. Now the kid is here, guess what we all have to deal with it. With the change in abortion law, now even more kids will be here and we all have to deal with it. I wish more of the people that go overseas for adoptions would focus on adopting in country. We have our fair share of kids that need help.

I disagree with it only to the extent that we start thinking of having a family as a privilege for only a select few as opposed to a right that all should be afforded the chance to enjoy. The practical advice should be don't have children until you're ready. Not that you can't ever children ever unless you're in the upper class. But hey, maybe Johnny and the gang really like the policies out of communist China. 

[ChuckNorrisActionJeans 2663]

Just now, MonkeyCigarette said:

post WW2 prosperity was artificial and never meant to be permanent at scale.

Well the Boomers took all that and decided they earned it all on their own and fuck everyone else. It's literally the premise underlying MAGA ('cause everything was great back then) and fuck everyone who can't replicate their incredible un-earned privilege under the current circumstances that the Republicans have wrought since the 70s/80s.

[Willfully Horn 8013]

5 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Adoption is the moral choice given the long waiting lists.  Legally, I don’t have a problem with abortion prior to when there is a heartbeat or brain waves.  Science says the lack of both is death.  So presence of both is life.  So whenever that is would be my line.  

Looking forward to your help in defending Plan B. And birth control.

Edited December 22, 2021 by Willfully Horn
More

[Johnny Sack 8397]

2 minutes ago, ChuckNorrisActionJeans said:

For one thing, a much bigger impact is the astronomical rise in college tuition/lessened state funding for state universities so that a BA is more out of reach for most without crushing student debt. 

I think unfettered government injection of student loan cash has caused explosion in tuition costs.  Taj Mahal facilities and dorms.   Explosion in the admin to student ratio while faculty to student ratio has held steady for 50 years.  Does the University of Texas need a 100 person diversity department?  Or is that just a make work program for woke _____ Studies majors?

 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

2 minutes ago, Willfully Horn said:

Looking forward to your help in defending Plan B. And birth control.

Is someone trying to outlaw them?  I mean they are sold everywhere very cheap.  Or are you talking about forcing unwilling private individuals or entities to pay for them?

[fattyflattie 4639]

6 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Not that you can't ever children ever unless you're in the upper class. But hey, maybe Johnny and the gang really like the policies out of communist China. 

Johnny didn’t say that. He said don’t have kids and then expect someone else to pay for them.  ie: your example of the single mom with 3 kids struggling to get by.  Quite literally by her own choices she has chosen to be poor. Had she not done that, likelihood is she would not be. Choices. 
 

*assuming this wasn’t triplets from a rape, or some other 1/10000000000 chance event. 

Edited December 22, 2021 by fattyflattie

[Willfully Horn 8013]

4 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Is someone trying to outlaw them?  I mean they are sold everywhere very cheap.  Or are you talking about forcing unwilling private individuals or entities to pay for them?

I’m making a prediction. I’d love to be wrong.

[MonkeyCigarette 143]

11 minutes ago, ChuckNorrisActionJeans said:

Well the Boomers took all that and decided they earned it all on their own and fuck everyone else. It's literally the premise underlying MAGA ('cause everything was great back then) and fuck everyone who can't replicate their incredible un-earned privilege under the current circumstances that the Republicans have wrought since the 70s/80s.

"1973 was the first year where it became clear the economy was walking down a new path.

The recession that began that year brought unemployment to the highest it had been since the 1930s

Inflation surged. But unlike the post-war spikes, it stayed high.

Short-term interest rates hit 8% in 1973, up from 2.5% a decade earlier.

And you have to put all of that in the context of how much fear there was between Vietnam, riots, and the assassinations of Martin Luther King, John and Bobby Kennedy.

It got bleak.

America dominated the world economy in the two decades after the war. Many of the largest countries had their manufacturing capacity bombed into rubble. But as the 1970s emerged, that changed. Japan was booming. China’s economy was opening up. The Middle East was flexing its oil muscles.

A combination of lucky economic advantages and a culture shared by the Greatest Generation shared – hardened by the Depression and anchored in systematic cooperation from the war – shifted when Baby Boomers began coming of age. A new generation that had a different view of what’s normal and expected hit at the same time a lot of the economic tailwinds of the previous two decades ended.

Everything in finance is data within the context of expectations. One of the biggest shifts of the last century happened when the economic winds began blowing in a different, uneven direction, but people’s expectations were still rooted in a post-war culture of equality. Not necessarily equality of income, although there was that. But equality in lifestyle and consumption expectations; the idea that someone earning a 50th percentile income shouldn’t live a life dramatically different than someone in the 80th or 90th percentile. And that someone in the 99th percentile lived a better life, but still a life that someone in the 50th percentile could comprehend. That’s how America worked for most of the 1945-1980 period. It doesn’t matter whether you think that’s morally right or wrong. It just matters that it happened.

Expectations always move slower than facts. And the economic facts of the years between the early 1970s through the early 2000s were that growth continued, but became more uneven, yet people’s expectations of how their lifestyle should compare to their peers did not change."

This is a really good read: https://www.collaborativefund.com/blog/how-this-all-happened/

Edited December 22, 2021 by MonkeyCigarette

[Johnny Sack 8397]

Just now, Willfully Horn said:

I’m making a prediction. I’d love to be wrong.

Predict what?  Got zero issue with either.  No third party should be forced to pay for your birth control or plan b.  But they should be freely available on the market like they are.  People should use them.  And condoms.  I don’t care.  Poor people who cannot afford to have kids shouldn’t have them.  And if they can’t afford the fifty cent condom, then do oral or anal until they can raise the funds.  

[MonkeyCigarette 143]

I think this is the best way to describe the last few pages: everyone agrees that things are broken, but we disagree in the direction that things are broken because our values and goals are different (simplifying):

Quote

 

The Tea Party, Occupy Wall Street, Brexit, and the rise of Donald Trump each represents a group shouting, “Stop the ride, I want off.”

The details of their shouting are different, but they’re all shouting – at least in part – because stuff isn’t working for them within the context of the post-war expectation that stuff should work roughly the same for roughly everyone.

You can scoff at linking the rise of Trump to income inequality alone. And you should. These things are always layers of complexity deep. But it’s a key part of what drives people to think, “I don’t live in the world I expected. That pisses me off. So screw this. And screw you! I’m going to fight for something totally different, because this – whatever it is – isn’t working.”

Take that mentality and raise it to the power of Facebook, Instagram, and cable news – where people are more keenly aware of how other people live than ever before. It’s gasoline on a flame. Benedict Evans says, “The more the Internet exposes people to new points of view, the angrier people get that different views exist.” That’s a big shift from the post-war economy where the range of economic opinions were smaller, both because the actual range of outcomes was lower and because it wasn’t as easy to see and learn what other people thought and how they lived.

 

 

[Willfully Horn 8013]

8 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Quite literally by her own choices she has chosen to be poor. Had she not done that, likelihood is she would not be. Choices

I remember my mother saying that folks who wait until they think they are ready to have kids won’t ever have kids. So, the three kid caveat is rhetorically smart.

OTOH, this is a state with a history of lauding the go for broke wildcatters, and, well, baseball HOF-ers are out twice as often as they are safe. Some folks marry poorly. Others fuck up their own lives through stupidity and selfishness. The poor exist, for the foreseeable future. 
 

Yet, we are the richest country in recorded history. With Judeo-Christian moral underpinnings. I can condemn individual choices, but cannot abandon the morality I was taught. And those lessons clearly state I am obligated to help others.

[Willfully Horn 8013]

12 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Predict what?  Got zero issue with either.  No third party should be forced to pay for your birth control or plan b.  But they should be freely available on the market like they are.  People should use them.  And condoms.  I don’t care.  Poor people who cannot afford to have kids shouldn’t have them.  And if they can’t afford the fifty cent condom, then do oral or anal until they can raise the funds.  

Catholic morality informs the hard right wing in Texas. I’m just looking ahead in the direction we’re going.

Edited December 22, 2021 by Willfully Horn
Edit

[Johnny Sack 8397]

2 minutes ago, Bravo said:

and every Hispanic 

The preferred nomenclature is LatinX

[workswithseed 2103]

1 minute ago, Johnny Sack said:

The preferred nomenclature is LatinX

https://www.wsj.com/articles/does-latinx-rhyme-kleenex-latino-latina-hispanic-woke-gender-lgbtqia-colonialism-progressives-11639930248

Actual Latinos shun the word “Latinx.” According to a November 2021 poll by Bendixen & Amandi International, only 2% of Americans of Latin descent refer to themselves that way. Some 68% prefer “Hispanic” to “Latino” and “Latina.” And 40% are offended by “Latinx,” which means it’s a mistake for a politician to use the word, at least around Latino constituents.

[pacman 7355]

1 hour ago, fattyflattie said:

Just because he’s got money doesn’t mean we some fry cook that decided to do drugs and knock up women in high school  a better life. No, you made your shit ass choices.  Elon doesn’t owe you shit. Go turn the fucking fries and hope you don’t fuck it up in your next life. 

Why do you think it necessary to formulate some extreme example to make whatever shallow point it is you are making?

Pull that shit out and make an actual intelligent point. Do you argue there is some transfer of wealth to minimum wage, drug users who happen to parent children? If so, through what mechanism and what citations?

Edited December 22, 2021 by pacman

[TwiceHorn 31452]

2 hours ago, 6th Street said:

It would be easier to call for higher tax rates on billionaires if our govt wasn't so fucking wasteful. Blowing trillions on some bullshit wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Bridges to nowhere. The F35 JSF program. You could double Elon's tax rate and it wouldn't make any difference to the average American because the govt would just piss it away on some horseshit with zero oversight rather than spend it on building roads, hospitals, affordable health care, etc.

This is basically my angle on "fiscal conservatism."

I don't demand a balanced budget, or elimination of the deficit.  Some whittling away would be nice in anticipation of the time we are not the reserve currency and the shit hits the fan.

But I'd like to see some curbs on runaway spending, and I also wouldn't mind paying some higher taxes for real "infrastructure," to include some social spending.

[TwiceHorn 31452]

1 hour ago, Bravo said:

and every Hispanic 

Who, ironically, have pretty astronomical teen and out of wedlock birthrates.

[TwiceHorn 31452]

1 hour ago, MonkeyCigarette said:

that stuff should work roughly the same for roughly everyone.

That's not the Trumper ethos at all. Or of the other right-wing movements.  There's no interest in even rough equality, there.

It's "stuff should work better for people like me."  Because people not like me are fucking everything up.

Like me generally means white.  And it completely ignores that it's wealthy/entrenched interests that have fucked everything up, not the darkies.

Edited December 22, 2021 by TwiceHorn

[henrygandorf 29189]

27 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Like me generally means white.  And it completely ignores that it's wealthy/entrenched interests that have fucked everything up, not the darkies.

false entitlement typically leads to unrealistic expectations and eventual disappointment. followed by anger. 

good thing these people have a cable news network to lean on. 

[cactusflinthead 27598]

6 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

You think the abortion law has had a material effect on current mother of three?

Double up on birth control.  The pill is $15 a month at Walmart and condoms are like 50 cents each.  Or do anal.  I don’t care.  Don’t expect others to pay for your kids.  

Your Republican Party ladies and gentlemen!

We get the benefits of government and you don't. I got mine so fuck off.

[Goofyboy 3288]

Yet again - the republicans on this site are perfectly ok with kids starving, the elderly not getting all the medical attention they need, etc.

It must be nice to be perfect. What’s it like making all those perfect decisions to land where you did. Also, you guys are awfully judgmental and rather gross. You bitch about “punishing” billionaires, yet you have absolutely no problem REALLY punishing people that didn’t do as well at life as you.

There is absolutely zero reason for anyone in the world to have 100’s of billions of dollars. None. $1 billion is a generational level of wealth that almost no one will ever know. The US can and should do better.

[Brew 3049]

7 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

I disagree with it only to the extent that we start thinking of having a family as a privilege for only a select few as opposed to a right that all should be afforded the chance to enjoy. The practical advice should be don't have children until you're ready. Not that you can't ever children ever unless you're in the upper class. But hey, maybe Johnny and the gang really like the policies out of communist China. 

I don’t disagree, but the cost of kids has gone up exponentially like everything else and some people legitimately don’t need to have kids. Nothing we can do to change that other than offer the support where it is needed. Day care locally is running $1,000 a month now and I don’t live in a high cost area like a lot of you. You can still find a decent 3/2 in a decent area for $150k although that was $100k not very long ago. Rent can still be had for under $1,000 pretty easily as well, but it’s a grand to put our kids in daycare. Somehow we have to find a place for reasonable child care and health care, because ultimately it’s the children that suffer from our system. It’s not fatties fry guy, it’s the kids. When they suffer it sets up the same process for the next generation.

[JimmyJames 12271]

1 hour ago, cactusflinthead said:

 

We get the benefits of government and you don't. I got mine so fuck off.

The Sack should make that his tag line and put it at the end of every post he makes here. 
 

“We need more cops to arrest all these protesters and their liberal woke supporters!”

“Ok whose gonna pay for them?”

”You are!”

[wildcat09 29352]

The nice thing about the Trump presidency is he stripped all the pretense away and revealed conservatives for what they truly are.

The horrible thing about the Trump presidency is realizing just how many people are absolutely gleeful about no longer having to maintain the pretense of decency.

[cactusflinthead 27598]

22 minutes ago, Brew said:

You can still find a decent 3/2 in a decent area for $150k although that was $100k not very long ago. Rent can still be had for under $1,000 pretty easily as well,

Where the fuck is this? Under a thousand in a decent area where? It damn sure ain't DFW.

[wildcat09 29352]

I don’t think you can find a 3/2 in a decent area for $150k within 40-50 miles of downtown Houston.

[Bullneck 19081]

8 hours ago, hobbes2702 said:

There are truly some a absolutely disgusting, detestable posts in the last two pages of this thread.

Got up this morning and started reading and was thinking the exact same thing.  The most hateful and arrogant posters seem attracted to other's misery and opposing the opportunity to improve our country.  

[CooterBrown 18006]

Yet again - the republicans on this site are perfectly ok with kids starving, the elderly not getting all the medical attention they need, etc.

It must be nice to be perfect. What’s it like making all those perfect decisions to land where you did. Also, you guys are awfully judgmental and rather gross. You bitch about “punishing” billionaires, yet you have absolutely no problem REALLY punishing people that didn’t do as well at life as you.

There is absolutely zero reason for anyone in the world to have 100’s of billions of dollars. None. $1 billion is a generational level of wealth that almost no one will ever know. The US can and should do better.

I like that Sack and the like tout about being Christians. I haven’t been to church since since ‘89 but I don’t remember Jesus teaching fuck the poor, I’ve got mine. Then again Joel Osteen didn’t exist back then.

If everyone waited until they could afford kids, our negative population growth rate would put Japan to shame and do wonders for the economy.

[Pam Cummings 9640]

8 minutes ago, CooterBrown said:

I like that Sack and the like tout about being Christians. I haven’t been to church since since ‘89 but I don’t remember Jesus teaching fuck the poor, I’ve got mine. Then again Joel Osteen didn’t exist back then.

If everyone waited until they could afford kids, our negative population growth rate would put Japan to shame and do wonders for the economy.

 

Religion summed up.

[Goofyboy 3288]

The snobbery of these people is what gets me. Republicans tell people to get off their ass and get a job. Dude gets a job flipping burgers for 40 hours a week and isn’t paid enough to live on (thanks corporate welfare). Republicans then make fun of the dude and tell him his job sucks and do better.

How? The guy doesn’t make enough to make it without government help. More education (which republicans love to say - go to school, learn a trade) costs money because fuck free education. Maybe if the job paid a living wage, that would help, but again Republicans - that’s socialism and get a better job come out.

Who put Republicans in charge of deciding what’s a good enough job to be paid enough to live? Anyone that puts in an honest days work should be paid at least a livable wage.

[bonnieblue 542]

And even if some “fuck ups” have kids they can’t afford, that doesn’t change the fact that the kids are still here, no matter how much scolding you do. Is the the prevailing republican thought really “sorry kids, sucks to be you”? Isn’t it in everyone’s best interest that the kids are supported so that they don’t grow up to be “fuck ups”?

[Pam Cummings 9640]

5 minutes ago, bonnieblue said:

And even if some “fuck ups” have kids they can’t afford, that doesn’t change the fact that the kids are still here, no matter how much scolding you do. Is the the prevailing republican thought really “sorry kids, sucks to be you”? Isn’t it in everyone’s best interest that the kids are supported so that they don’t grow up to be “fuck ups”?

It's beneficial for a certain, specific, small segment of society for these kids to be born but not educated or taught rational thinking and critical thinking skills. That segment of society wants these kids to grow up stupid so that they will be easier to dupe/manipulate as adults.

[Brew 3049]

36 minutes ago, cactusflinthead said:

Where the fuck is this? Under a thousand in a decent area where? It damn sure ain't DFW.

In one of the states not names Texas represented here. I was more relating the cost of housing to child care here so some people didn’t pop up and go $1,000 a month is cheap from one of the many places where starter homes are $500k or more but wages are also higher than here.