What, no Joe Manchin thread?

[ChiTownDoc 21154]

1 minute ago, Anastasis said:

Come on man.  You know how the Senate works. 

Dems so fucked that it doesn’t matter imo.  You really think differently?  Honestly they can’t even get out of their own way but throw shit like the Ukraine war in and they have zero shot in hell to get anything done. 
 

I’ve said it many times.  They’re nice people who suck at politics.  It’s kind of a big problem.  

[Biff Tannen 45712]

1 hour ago, ChiTownDoc said:

I’ve said it many times.  They’re nice people who suck at politics.  It’s kind of a big problem.  

This is honestly why I'm throwing my hands up after 2024.  I clearly think the left has better ideas overall than the right.  Good god, how could anyone not if they aren't just a complete fucking asshole?  BUT, knowing that it's just a lost cause is just...well, I've got better things to do with the rest of my existence.  However short that may be.

[bolverk 29708]

Now he's fucking up the 15% global minimum corporate tax:

How Joe Manchin Left a Global Tax Deal in Limbo
Treasury Secretary Janet L. Yellen’s signature achievement is in jeopardy if the United States cannot ratify the tax agreement that she brokered.

WASHINGTON — In June, months after reluctantly signing on to a global tax agreement brokered by the United States, Ireland’s finance minister met privately with Treasury Secretary Janet L. Yellen, seeking reassurances that the Biden administration would hold up its end of the deal.

Ms. Yellen assured the minister, Paschal Donohoe, that the administration would be able to secure enough votes in Congress to ensure that the United States was in compliance with the pact, which was aimed at cracking down on companies evading taxes by shifting jobs and profits around the world.

It turns out that Ms. Yellen was overly optimistic. Late last week, Senator Joe Manchin III, Democrat of West Virginia, effectively scuttled the Biden administration’s tax agenda in Congress — at least for now — by saying he could not immediately support a climate, energy and tax package he had spent months negotiating with the Democratic leadership. He expressed deep misgivings about the international tax deal, which he had previously indicated he could support, saying it would put American companies at a disadvantage.

“I said we’re not going to go down that path overseas right now because the rest of the countries won’t follow, and we’ll put all of our international companies in jeopardy, which harms the American economy,” Mr. Manchin told a West Virginia radio station on Friday. “So we took that off the table.”

Spoiler

Mr. Manchin’s reversal, couched in the language used by Republican opponents of the deal, is a blow to Ms. Yellen, who spent months getting more than 130 countries on board. It is also a defeat for President Biden and Democratic leaders in the Senate, who pushed hard to raise tax rates on many multinational corporations in hopes of leading the world in an effort to stop companies from shifting jobs and income to minimize their tax bills.

The agreement would have ushered in the most sweeping changes to global taxation in decades, including raising taxes on many large corporations and changing how technology companies are taxed. The two-pronged approach would entail countries enacting a 15 percent minimum tax so that companies pay a rate of at least that much on their global profits no matter where they set up shop. It would also allow governments to tax the world’s largest and most profitable companies based on where their goods and services were sold, not where their headquarters were.

Failure to get agreement at home creates a mess both for the Biden administration and for multinational corporations. Many other countries are likely to press ahead to ratify the deal, but some may now be emboldened to hold out, fracturing the coalition and potentially opening the door for some countries to continue marketing themselves as corporate tax havens.

For now, the situation will allow for the continued aggressive use of global tax avoidance strategies by companies like the pharmaceutical giant AbbVie. A Senate Finance Committee report this month found that the company made three-quarters of its sales to American customers in 2020, yet reported only 1 percent of its income in the United States for tax purposes — a move that allowed it to slash its effective tax rate to about half of the 21 percent American corporate income tax rate.

Not changing international tax laws could also sow new uncertainty for large tech companies, like Google and Amazon, and other businesses that earn money from consumers in countries where they do not have many employees or physical offices. Part of the global agreement was meant to give those companies more certainty on which countries could tax them, and how much they would have to pay.

America’s refusal to take part would be a significant setback for Ms. Yellen, whose role in getting the deal done was viewed as her signature diplomatic achievement. For months last year, she lobbied nations around the world, from Ireland to India, on the merits of the tax agreement, only to see her own political party decline to heed her calls to get on board.

After Mr. Manchin’s comments, the Treasury Department said it was not giving up on the agreement.

“The United States remains committed to finalizing a global minimum tax,” Michael Kikukawa, a Treasury spokesman, said in a statement. “It’s too important for our economic strength and competitiveness to not finalize this agreement, and we’ll continue to look at every avenue possible to get it done.”

The U.S. path to approving the global pact faced challenges from the outset, given Republican opposition to parts of the plan and Democrats’ slim control of the Senate.

To comply with the agreement, the United States would need to raise the tax rate that companies pay on their foreign earnings to 15 percent from 10.5 percent. Congress would also need to change how the tax was applied, imposing it on a country-by-country basis, so that companies could not lower their tax bills simply by seeking out tax havens and “blending” their tax rates.

The Biden administration had hoped to enact those changes through its stalled Build Back Better legislation or a smaller spending bill that Democrats hoped to pass through a budget process that would not require any Republican support.

“Secretary Yellen and her team have always been making the case that they will be able to secure the changes they need,” Mr. Donohoe said in an interview in June. “Secretary Yellen again made the case for all of the work they have underway to try to secure the votes that they needed for this change within the House of Representatives and the Senate.”

Congress would also have to revise tax treaties to give other nations the power to tax large U.S. multinationals based on where their products were sold. That legislation would require the support of Republicans, who have shown no inclination to vote for it.

American technology giants such as Google and Amazon have largely backed the proposed tax changes as a way to put an end to the complex thicket of European digital services taxes that have been enacted in recent years. If the agreement unravels, they will face a new wave of uncertainty.

The entire project has been on shaky ground in recent months amid continuing opposition in the European Union, delays over technical fine print and concerns about whether the United States would actually join. Nevertheless, it remains possible that the European Union and other countries will still move ahead with the agreement, leaving the United States as an awkward outlier from a deal that it revived last year.

“With or without the U.S., there does seem to be a very significant chance that that architecture will be stood up,” said Manal Corwin, a Treasury official in the Obama administration who now heads the Washington national tax practice at KPMG. “Once you get a few countries that make those first moves, whether it’s the E.U. or some other critical mass, I think you’ll see others follow pretty quickly.”

That poses risks for U.S. companies, including the chance that their tax bills could go up, given an enforcement mechanism that the Treasury Department helped create to nudge reluctant countries into the agreement. If the United States doesn’t adopt a 15 percent minimum tax, American companies with subsidiaries in participating countries could wind up paying penalty taxes to those foreign governments.

“If Congress doesn't adopt, that doesn’t prevent the European Union and Japan and others from moving forward in this area, at which point, I think, Congress would see it’s in the U.S. interest to adopt, because otherwise our companies will also get hit by this enforcement principle,” Kimberly Clausing, who recently left her job as Treasury’s deputy assistant secretary for tax analysis, said at a Tax Policy Center event last month.

Barbara Angus, the global tax policy leader at Ernst & Young, said a failure by the United States to comply with the deal would have “significant implications” for American companies.

“For this framework to work as it’s intended, there really does need to be consistency and coordination,” said Ms. Angus, who is also a former chief tax counsel on the House Ways and Means Committee.

The Treasury Department could not provide an estimate for how much additional tax American companies would have to pay to foreign governments if the United States was left out of the global agreement. If fully enacted, the agreement is projected to raise about $200 billion of tax revenue for the United States over a decade.

Pascal Saint-Amans, director of the center for tax policy and administration at the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, said he thought that the European Union would find a way to move beyond member state opposition and that, once it ratified that agreement, the United States would come under pressure to join.

“Once E.U. has moved, U.S. has the following choice: Either they move or they leave the taxing right on U.S. multinational enterprises to the Europeans,” Mr. Saint-Amans said in a text message. “Even the Republicans would not let this go.”

For now, Republican opposition to the tax deal seems unlikely to bend. Lawmakers have complained for the last year of being excluded from the international negotiations and assailed Ms. Yellen for giving foreign countries new powers to tax American companies.

“The world should know that despite what the Biden administration is pushing, the U.S. is not going to surrender economically to our foreign competitors by raising our global minimum tax rate based on an agreement that is neither enforceable nor complete nor in our interest,” said Representative Kevin Brady of Texas, the top Republican on the Ways and Means Committee. “Congress will not ratify an O.E.C.D. deal that cedes our constitutional authority to set tax rules or fails to protect key U.S. tax incentives.”

Mr. Brady, who will retire at the end of his term, added: “There’s little political support for an agreement that makes the U.S. less competitive and surrenders our tax base to foreign competitors.”

 

[kevwun 15855]

I can't wait to hear why he won't vote for the marriage bill.

[Beantown Express 2.0 6559]

42 minutes ago, kevwun said:

I can't wait to hear why he won't vote for the marriage bill.

I can't wait to hear him say the 2020 election was stolen from Donald Trump and Biden is not the real President.

[Hammerin Hank 1227]

He’s involved with the Electoral Count and Presidential Transition Act so that’s good I guess. He’s still a piece of shit though 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/07/20/electoral-count-act-bill-senate/

[elfenix 34331]

29 minutes ago, Hammerin Hank said:

He’s involved with the Electoral Count and Presidential Transition Act so that’s good I guess. He’s still a piece of shit though 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/07/20/electoral-count-act-bill-senate/

problem is that he's lucy with the football even with stuff he's written.  you simply cannot count on his vote until it's cast.

[TheStoicPaisano 9923]

I think I’m getting the black lung, Pop.

 

[WhatTheBuck 28797]

Black lung is for his constituents, not for Manchin. 

[UrbanAchiever 278]

Manchin flipped his position on the climate package. 

[elfenix 34331]

[elfenix 34331]

manchin statement

 

 

[Neonmoon 38130]

There is no way this senate is passing a bill that allows Medicare to negotiate drug prices. 

[Biff Tannen 45712]

SHOW ME THE FUCKING VOTE

[Mdhorn 5984]

14 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

There is no way this senate is passing a bill that allows Medicare to negotiate drug prices. 

And we all know why.

[Mdhorn 5984]

2 hours ago, elfenix said:

manchin statement

 

 

Manchin just negotiating his price.  

[Homercles 10206]

Well again, since I hate myself, headed on over to the good folks of the FN comment section.  Upcoming talking points to be:

1) Corporations don’t pay taxes, they just pass that onto consumers.  Thus setting a tax rate floor will just increase inflation by putting more money into circulation.

2) Investing in climate initiatives will just increase inflation by putting more money into circulation. 

So…what do they want the government to do besides have an R next to their name?  You get blasted by those folks by doing ‘nothing’ for inflation, or get blasted by doing ‘anything’.  

The more time passes the more divided I become on this and just dismiss anything they have to say.  I’m becoming a part of the problem.  This is why I rarely listen to NPR much anymore, I just argue with the radio sarcastically…it’s not their message, it’s already knowing the cause of gridlock or the removal of rights.  
 

After seeing the complete lack of capital investment and extensive stock buyback during the last few years…I have full faith companies in the $1B+ class can pay taxes without firing all their staff or raising prices.  
 

Sure Manchin will still pull the football away

[gmr548 16606]

Did Manchin and Schumer intentionally plan this to get Republican votes on the semiconductor/manufacturing bill, only to ram this down their throats anyway?

Probably not, to be honest, but I'd like to think so. Still a long way to go - Manchin can't be counted on until he's a yes votes and no one's even considering Sinema - but at this point I will take even a modest accomplishment on climate.

Edited July 28, 2022 by gmr548

[6th Street 6489]

Once the CHIPs Act passed, McConnell no longer had any leverage and Manchin immediately announced agreement w Schumer.

Personally I think more $ should have been allocated for true infrastructure like roads and fabs as well as R&D tax credits vs random spending on "climate change" that is unlikely to monetize.

[Fudge Nuggets 19211]

Nothing about voting rights?  Then the rest means jack shit.

[Bama Chick 28596]

Give the fucking asshole his flowers if he helped his party FOR ONCE

[6th Street 6489]

He's a fucking nihilist man

[elfenix 34331]

4 hours ago, 6th Street said:

Once the CHIPs Act passed, McConnell no longer had any leverage and Manchin immediately announced agreement w Schumer.

democrats do a politics and we're so fucking used to being disappointed by them that instead of being pleasantly surprised we're all waiting for the other shoe to drop

[Dnaguy 12045]

4 hours ago, elfenix said:

democrats do a politics and we're so fucking used to being disappointed by them that instead of being pleasantly surprised we're all waiting for the other shoe to drop

Democrat isn’t something you do, man. It’s like a state of mind.

You can’t just “ unledge” after one victory.

Maybe we take a step back from the edge one day, but rest assured that there will be the Abbot’s , the Trumps, the Ron Johnson’s, the Sinemas, etc to push us back to the edge.

This is a mid season story arc.

Buckle up for the season finale.

 

[elfenix 34331]

it took inflation hawk larry summers explaining to manchin, in very small words and quite slowly, i'm certain, that the legislation was, indeed, not inflationary.

 

[wildcat09 29376]

So who bribed Summers to lie to Manchin? Summers thinks literally everything is inflationary. 

[henrygandorf 29194]

5 hours ago, Dnaguy said:

You can’t just “unledge” after one victory.

it’s “de-ledge” like deplane. 

[ConferenceRoom 6145]

De ledge, de ledge! 

[The Original Greaser Bob 2845]

19 minutes ago, ConferenceRoom said:

De ledge, de ledge! 

[Dutchrudder 11150]

Sounds like someone inflated Summers' bank account....

[6th Street 6489]

https://fortune.com/2022/07/28/chips-bill-act-2022-senate-house-vote-results-joe-manchin/amp/

Chips Act giving chipmakers $52 billion seemed destined for bipartisan support in the House. Then came Joe Manchin’s bombshell

The House could vote on subsidies for chipmakers as soon as Thursday, but Sen. Joe Manchin's bombshell complicates its path to law.

 

 

Edited July 28, 2022 by 6th Street

[babysdaddy 2728]

Inflation reduction act (lol) seems like Manchin has totally redeemed hisself. Schumer McConnelled McConnell. Is that competent behavior out of the Dems?

[elfenix 34331]

This made me laugh

[Bama Chick 28596]

Based Joe Manchin

All the clips in the thread are pretty pretty good.

[Bullneck 19201]

Joe Manchin Suffers Big Loss After Senators Tank His Pipeline Plan

Republicans took their revenge on Democrat Manchin over his vote last month for Democrats' big climate and health law, the Inflation Reduction Act.

[Js1 85526]

Just now, Bullneck said:

Joe Manchin Suffers Big Loss After Senators Tank His Pipeline Plan

Republicans took their revenge on Democrat Manchin over his vote last month for Democrats' big climate and health law, the Inflation Reduction Act.

Followed by both Capito and Cornyn agreeing to discuss changes, but he himself asked Schumer to remove it from the CR to avoid a government shutdown. 

[Gengs1 2583]

4 hours ago, Js1 said:

Followed by both Capito and Cornyn agreeing to discuss changes, but he himself asked Schumer to remove it from the CR to avoid a government shutdown. 

[Bullneck 19201]

4 hours ago, Js1 said:

Followed by both Capito and Cornyn agreeing to discuss changes, but he himself asked Schumer to remove it from the CR to avoid a government shutdown. 

OK, I'll put that in the "finally fucking thought of someone but himself" category. 

And I thought his interview was good.  But I'm not getting my hopes up, because deep down we know he's a con.

[Pancho 44964]

[Js1 85526]

I don't have an issue with this.  He's basically one anyhow, and the (D) label next to his name is going to be a hindrance in 2024.  He'd probably have a better shot winning as an independent that caucuses with the Dems. 

[StassneyHorn 6627]

Just give the man some pork

[hornmpa96 2620]

8 minutes ago, Js1 said:

I don't have an issue with this.  He's basically one anyhow, and the (D) label next to his name is going to be a hindrance in 2024.  He'd probably have a better shot winning as an independent that caucuses with the Dems. 

Completely agree - This may keep him in the Senate for another term loosely affiliated with the Dems which is equivalent to the current situation. It’s also preferred to having one more R Senator.

[Bama Chick 28596]

I don't have an issue with this.  He's basically one anyhow, and the (D) label next to his name is going to be a hindrance in 2024.  He'd probably have a better shot winning as an independent that caucuses with the Dems. 

He’s going to declare himself an Independent and run for president on the stupid “No Labels” platform.

[Ghost of LL 15539]

6 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

He’s going to declare himself an Independent and run for president on the stupid “No Labels” platform.

I don't think so.  

Joe Manchin is in it entirely for Joe Manchin.  And what does getting 3% in a presidential election and no electoral votes get Joe Manchin?  Absolutely nothing.  Well, absolutely nothing good.  It gets him the everlasting enmity of the Democratic Party and every Democratic officeholder.

What Manchin really wants is to stay in the United States Senate.  So he's going to run for reelection.  And worst case, he loses.  But if that happens, he gets a gig on K Street making very serious money because he's known as a dealmaker who has friends on both sides of the aisle.  And that very serious money can be used to get an even bigger boat.  So maybe it's not as nice as the Senate, but it's not a bad deal at all.

['stache 21838]

Serious question, what parts of the Democrat platform does he support? There has to be a reason he's called himself a D this long. Coal miners unions maybe?

[Js1 85526]

29 minutes ago, 'stache said:

Serious question, what parts of the Democrat platform does he support? There has to be a reason he's called himself a D this long. Coal miners unions maybe?

He calls himself an old school WV Democrat. He’s not a Republican. He’s just a conservaDem in a party where most of them flipped in the past 10-12 years. 

[hayden_horn 11365]

1 hour ago, 'stache said:

Serious question, what parts of the Democrat platform does he support? There has to be a reason he's called himself a D this long. Coal miners unions maybe?

yeah, but the shift has happened up in those parts. all my old reliable democratic union family members have gone full maga. mostly because the coal mining is dead, all the frac jobs have been taken by transient texans by way of north dakota and aren't going to the local union. everything up there is fucking broken, rusty and gross. it really is the rust belt, and most people are on some kind of public benefits. the world has passed them by and they are pissed, so they've gone maga.

instead of being a man of principles, manchin has chosen to sow the maga wind. 

good luck with that i guess. 

[DDD Dad 14347]

31 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

yeah, but the shift has happened up in those parts. all my old reliable democratic union family members have gone full maga. mostly because the coal mining is dead, all the frac jobs have been taken by transient texans by way of north dakota and aren't going to the local union. everything up there is fucking broken, rusty and gross. it really is the rust belt, and most people are on some kind of public benefits. the world has passed them by and they are pissed, so they've gone maga.

instead of being a man of principles, manchin has chosen to sow the maga wind. 

good luck with that i guess. 

Watched a segment last night on PBS News Hour about complicated black lung (and now silicosis due to modern mining methods).  WV really is a depressing place, and Joe Manchin is a big reason why lots of those people continue to suffer terribly both physically and economically.  It's apparently estimated that mining-related lung damage reduces average life expectancy by 12 years.

 

[hayden_horn 11365]

6 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

Watched a segment last night on PBS News Hour about complicated black lung (and now silicosis due to modern mining methods).  WV really is a depressing place, and Joe Manchin is a big reason why lots of those people continue to suffer terribly both physically and economically.  It's apparently estimated that mining-related lung damage reduces average life expectancy by 12 years.

 

uncle jack also smoked unfiltered camels like everyone up there. they fucking smoke in the denny's up there.

it's a depressing slice of americana.

[YChang 3462]

Such a beautiful place... shame some of their citizens willingly live with such poor conditions