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Zee top five jobs in CFB according to Joel Klatt

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closetohumping

closetohumping 17454

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20 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

I agree with this. Pretty much any college town with a big state school is pretty awesome compared to a place of similar size or even larger that isn’t. And even for the 18 year old that is from suburbia/exurbia of a major metro area— the fact is that he’s unlikely to have been living that swank metropolitan lifestyle and appreciating his MMA’s job market. 
 

That’s not to say places like Austin or Miami aren’t coolER to them. Just that they don’t look at Gainesville or Baton Rouge and think it’s a shithole. There’s a ton of places to party with young people and hot trim and the area around campus is nicer than wherever they are from most likely. Wtf else does a 18 year old need?
 

It’s far more important to give them a better experience while they’re visiting than to expect they’ll be lured by the magic of a cool big city. 

This I will also agree with.  Part of being in a cooler place is to get ass.  Well guess what you can get hot young ass in any college town.

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C-Man

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7 minutes ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Agreed on Hicks/Saban. Strong was a Patterson hire, we were going to tar and feather Perrin for Herman (I agree - Herman was the hands-down obvious pick - that’s why I differentiated him from Strong/Sark), and Swinney was NEVER in play in 2013. Swinney has been at Clemson since 2008 and he was never coming here in 2013. 

I’m bringing up Georgia and their much-more-recent than ‘08 or ‘83 national title game in 2018. And I don’t even think I’m talking to you.  My point is to equate the desirability of the Georgia job with the Texas job is laughable. They are not comparable. And to say Georgia hasn’t done shit in 40 years is equally laughable. 

Dabo Swinney also wasn't Dabo Swinney in 2013.

 

2 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

This I will also agree with.  Part of being in a cooler place is to get ass.  Well guess what you can get hot young ass in any college town.

Four- and five-star recruits, first and foremost, want to go somewhere that maximizes their chances of making it to the NFL. Everything else is gravy.

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closetohumping

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22 minutes ago, C-Man said:

Dabo Swinney also wasn't Dabo Swinney in 2013.

 

Four- and five-star recruits, first and foremost, want to go somewhere that maximizes their chances of making it to the NFL. Everything else is gravy.

Gittin laid is right up there.  But yes, if it were all about location, Rutgers, Miami and UCLA would be in the top five every year

 

And Dabo in 2013 was definitely in play if we wanted, but I think we were pointed towards Shaw, Strong and Franklin

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ImissWallyPryor

ImissWallyPryor 9046

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23 hours ago, Thermos H. Christ said:

What makes a job “better” than another? The ceiling for success at Texas is as high as anywhere, and the money is pretty good but not as much as some places are paying. But god damn being the HC at Texas looks like a miserable way to make a living and by far the most likely outcome is getting run out of town on a rail sooner or later. 

I clearly don’t have the mentality of an elite CFB coach because if I could make all the money I’d ever need (i.e. well into 7 figures a year) at some place where they’re happy to be bowl eligible most years and I mostly get left alone vs getting $5m plus to probably eat shit and be the most despised/mocked person in Austin I know what I’d choose.

Texas isn’t the only — nor is it the worst — when it comes to lack of patience. But, we seem to be the favorite to criticize for it. Look at USC firing 3 recent coaches DURING THE SEASON without any real blowback. Does anyone think OU would put up with the FUPM humiliating blowouts prior to 2005? He was lucky to still be at Texas. And there are non-blue bloods that churn through coaches every 4-5 years. I agree that the spotlight is more intense at Texas — the source of said misery — but every gotdam time we fire a coach in a major sport, people say we are a nothing but cancerous place to be.

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956 Worldwide

956 Worldwide 34737

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23 minutes ago, ImissWallyPryor said:

Texas isn’t the only — nor is it the worst — when it comes to lack of patience. But, we seem to be the favorite to criticize for it. Look at USC firing 3 recent coaches DURING THE SEASON without any real blowback. Does anyone think OU would put up with the FUPM humiliating blowouts prior to 2005? He was lucky to still be at Texas. And there are non-blue bloods that churn through coaches every 4-5 years. I agree that the spotlight is more intense at Texas — the source of said misery — but every gotdam time we fire a coach in a major sport, people say we are a nothing but cancerous place to be.

USC is gonna get a pass from national media on Sark for obvious reasons. No responsible AD keeps on an HC who comes to practices intoxicated. And Lane Kiffin provided plenty of unwanted off field drama to say the least.

With Texas, it ain’t Strong or Herman that’s haunting.  MB is fairly or unfairly seen as Frank Solich. A coach who is easily the the second best in a program’s history shown the door a few years off of a NC appearance and right after a 9 win season. For close fans the rot is obvious, not so much from a distance. Plus, MB is great at working the media to sell his side. 

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C-Man

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1 hour ago, closetohumping said:

Gittin laid is right up there.  But yes, if it were all about location, Rutgers, Miami and UCLA would be in the top five every year

 

And Dabo in 2013 was definitely in play if we wanted, but I think we were pointed towards Shaw, Strong and Franklin

All I meant is that Dabo wasn't the clear-cut slam dunk he would be just a couple of years later. He couldn't beat FSU at the time. And there's no way he'd have been allowed to get away with what he was -- and is -- able to do at Clemson as far as additional benefits.

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C-Man

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10 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

USC is gonna get a pass from national media on Sark for obvious reasons. No responsible AD keeps on an HC who comes to practices intoxicated. And Lane Kiffin provided plenty of unwanted off field drama to say the least.

With Texas, it ain’t Strong or Herman that’s haunting.  MB is fairly or unfairly seen as Frank Solich. A coach who is easily the the second best in a program’s history shown the door a few years off of a NC appearance and right after a 9 win season. For close fans the rot is obvious, not so much from a distance. Plus, MB is great at working the media to sell his side. 

Point taken. But Frank Solich is not the second-best coach in Nebraska history.

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956 Worldwide

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6 minutes ago, C-Man said:

Point taken. But Frank Solich is not the second-best coach in Nebraska history.

True, what I mean is that thanks to a media that will never know as much as fans and a very personable coach— Texas is seen as having shown a winning, likeable coach the door unfairly. You can argue that this perception is bullshit but you can’t argue away its existence. 

Edited by 956 Worldwide
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956 Worldwide

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9 minutes ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Herbie said that one time when we fired a fraud loser. Who fucking cares. We are pussies for not firing coaches as soon as they should be fired. Charlie should’ve been fired immediately after Kansas. Herman after OU last year. There is some unwritten Texas rule that you don’t fire coaches midseason. That is part of our problem. 

Tell me how firing coaches midseason helps things. What’s the evidence it helps change the trajectory of a season in a long term meaningful way or helps you land a good replacement. How has it helped USC? 

From where I sit, it leads to usually writing off a season and communicates to other candidates that the admin will not just fire you, they’ll embarrass you. Feel free to show an example where doing it was key to success somewhere.  Firings for misconduct and cause are different, of course. 

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ImissWallyPryor

ImissWallyPryor 9046

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5 minutes ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Herbie said that one time when we fired a fraud loser. Who fucking cares. We are pussies for not firing coaches as soon as they should be fired. Charlie should’ve been fired immediately after Kansas. Herman after OU last year. There is some unwritten Texas rule that you don’t fire coaches midseason. That is part of our problem. 

Herbie wasn’t the only one who shit on us for firing Strong, he just made the biggest splash because of his hyperbole, his position at ESPN, and his choice of venue. We got loads of criticism for firing Mack, and more than USC would ever receive (in comparison) when we fired Herman. If we weren’t considered near the top of the jobs list, this would not have happened. Are we a top 3 or top 5 job? Maybe, maybe not, but the media sure acts like it when they find reason to criticize us. Look at how they jumped on us during the EOT bullshit last year. It wasn’t a minor, local 24-hour news story like it would have been for a non-blue blood. 

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ImissWallyPryor

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44 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Frank Solich. A coach who is easily the the second best in a program’s history

A distant third at best. 
 

His BCSCG appearance was such a fluke that the selection process was changed so as not to allow that to happen again. 

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ChiTownDoc

ChiTownDoc 21154

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19 minutes ago, heso said:

So where would you leave for the usc job right now? James Franklin, Kirby smart, Dan Mullen at psu, uga, fla. would you leave any of those current positions for usc right now?

I would knock USC and UT down a spot or two because of where they're based.  Yes, Austin and LA are awesome but the local crowds don't live and die by winning.  I'd still have UT top 3 but USC is behind OU, in my opinion.  It's the same reason I'd never put the U in the top 10.  I have a place in Miami (it's still standing, I think)...people just don't give a fuck unless they're REALLY damn good.  

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WhatTheBuck

WhatTheBuck 28794

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4 hours ago, victory88 said:

We've resorted to hiring coordinators and coaches from G5 schools.  If this was the best job in the country, the top coaches in the country would want to come here.  This program is Tennessee, Nebraska, Michigan.  We're a solid program where you will get paid and then fired within 3-4 years if you don't win.  

Ohio State had some success with a coach they hired from a Div. I-AA school. 

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oSuJeff97

oSuJeff97 3435

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On 9/14/2021 at 11:39 AM, TexArcher said:

Yeah, and NIL changes everything.  Did you read my previous post?  Kids no longer have to go to shithole Southern cities to get paid, and yes that's been happening.  They've been choosing the SEC because they know they can win and make the NFL, as you said, and also because they can get paid.  Now they'll be able to do all of that in some much more attractive locations.

I can even see a time in several years when Texas, USC, and Oregon are winning and places like Alabama and Clemson have a hard time recruiting top coaches to replace Saban and Swinney because they're at such a competitive disadvantage in recruiting.

Sure, it sounds unfathomable now, but landscapes do change and the SEC hasn't been the big swinging dick forever.  And there's a paradigm shift coming. 

We'll see.

The fact of the matter is that most universities are in small or medium-sized towns, not big Coastal cities or huge metros like Austin, etc.

And on that note, I'm not quite sure I'm following the Austin = Los Angeles = Eugene, Oregon equivalency above.  

This all honestly seems like wishful thinking from a fan who wants to believe that NIL will be a big windfall for his school.

Like I said, I tend to think that the vast, vast majority of elite recruits who have NFL aspirations know that playing for the best programs that win the most and have the best coaches will be their quickest and best path to NFL riches. They are going to get paid no matter where they go. And if they are concerned first and foremost with "lifestyle" or the "cool stuff" that is available in the city where the school is located then the odds are they are going to get derailed and not pan out anyway.

Just one man's opinion. 

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heso

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17 minutes ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Penn St, yes. You’d be nuts to leave Georgia and Florida for any school - if those schools are rolling.  Kirby is a UGA grad  

 

Fucking auto correct. 

I just can’t see being any of those coaches in their current situations and seeing USC as a better opportunity. 

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Chuckie Finster

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4 hours ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Fisher in recent memory is the only one. But how rare is it for the #1 job in the nation to be constantly open?  That’s my point: we are bot the #1 job. 

Alabama went through 5 coaches (plus Mike Price & Joe Kines as interim) between 1996 and 2007.  Oklahoma went through 4 between 1994 and 1999.  These lists are pointless exercises in message board yelling and are almost 100% influenced by what recent coaches have been able to do there.  Our job isn't any more or less desirable since Mack left, we've just had chucklefucks running the place since then.

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closetohumping

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56 minutes ago, oSuJeff97 said:

We'll see.

The fact of the matter is that most universities are in small or medium-sized towns, not big Coastal cities or huge metros like Austin, etc.

And on that note, I'm not quite sure I'm following the Austin = Los Angeles = Eugene, Oregon equivalency above.  

This all honestly seems like wishful thinking from a fan who wants to believe that NIL will be a big windfall for his school.

Like I said, I tend to think that the vast, vast majority of elite recruits who have NFL aspirations know that playing for the best programs that win the most and have the best coaches will be their quickest and best path to NFL riches. They are going to get paid no matter where they go. And if they are concerned first and foremost with "lifestyle" or the "cool stuff" that is available in the city where the school is located then the odds are they are going to get derailed and not pan out anyway.

Just one man's opinion. 

I believe you’re correct. There is nothing cool about Clemson or Tuscaloosa. Get me to the next level.  Now, if you know you’ll never make the pros or want a fallback option, a place where you can build a network may be better. Nyc , LA, Miami and Chicago 

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VABuckeye

VABuckeye 2472

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23 minutes ago, Wally Fairway said:

Congrats on a good hire......................in 1950
and to Michigan in 1969, maybe everyone should look to the Miami (OH) program for a coach (but nobody is gonna look to hire Chuck Martin)

He's talking about Tressel.  I think you knew that?

Ohio State has been very fortunate with their head coaching tree.  Prior to Meyer the last four are all in the college football hall of fame and he's a lock.

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closetohumping

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15 minutes ago, Dr. Beeper said:

College kids don’t think like this, much less athletes. Alabama and Clemson are as desirable of places to attend school as Texas for Highland Park, Tx grads. Arkansas, OU, Ole Miss and particularly Georgia are MORE popular. Clemson and Tuscaloosa are fratty cool towns. For athletes, they are proven vessels for further playing. These places have distinct ADVANTAGES over Texas. 

I think you're agreeing with me? 

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C-Man

C-Man 27239

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23 minutes ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Top jobs in coaching fluctuate. Bama had a relative dark period between ‘97 and ‘07. Nobody would consider Bama a top 5 coaching job then. Franchione bolted Bama for A&M for Christ’s sake in ‘03. They are the unquestionable top job now because of Saban and their unparalleled history.

OU had a dark period in the 90s. They are a Top 5 job now because of Stoops, Riley and a Top 5 history.  

We have history on our side but there’s no way you can make a case for us being a Top 5 job right now. We have like a 15 year history of terrible OL recruiting (and frankly QB recruiting) across multiple coaches - that conveys serious issues. The difference between OU and Bama (and OSU and Florida and to some extent USC) and us is their dark periods are much shorter, because they’ll fire coaches quickly that don’t work out. They care more. We care more about image and making money. 

In a lot of ways we are a mirror image of Michigan except we’re higher profile (with a lesser history). 

Well, we have fired the last two coaches after an average of 3.5 years with substantial money left on their deals. We did hang on to Mack a little too long, though. I'll give you that.

 

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VABuckeye

VABuckeye 2472

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1 minute ago, Dr. Beeper said:

We shouldn’t have taken the 2000s for granted. If you take the 60 year period ended 2020, we’ve had probably 25 kickass seasons, 20 mediocre, and 15 abysmal. Just a guess but probably accurate. 

Which is something I've never understood.  USC I get.  The school administration just doesn't seem to care at all.  Are the BMD's the problem at Texas?  It makes no sense to me.

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C-Man

C-Man 27239

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2 minutes ago, Dr. Beeper said:

They weren’t good enough and that money means nothing. 

 

We are all trying to figure that out. I don’t think it’s BMDs. I really think our admin fails us at times, and LHN has been a timesuck for our coaches. More than anything, we haven’t found the right guy to put it all together. We had that with Mack but he doesn’t have the determination that Saban and Meyer do. 

Correct. I'm simply pointing out that we didn't have any "We're Texas, we don't do things that way" type BS. I know there were national types that hammered Texas pretty good for not letting Charlie get a fourth year so he had ALL his guys. It was apparent what needed to be done and it was done. Same with Herman. In fact, you could make all kinds of cases for why he'd done enough to be back for Year 5. I'd made up my mind that we'd never win anything of substance with him and at that point, you make the move, but I might've seen us hanging on for one more year in the past. But CDC -- pushed perhaps by Eltife, Hartzell and others -- did what needed to be done.

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WhatTheBuck

WhatTheBuck 28794

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36 minutes ago, VABuckeye said:

He's talking about Tressel.  I think you knew that?

Ohio State has been very fortunate with their head coaching tree.  Prior to Meyer the last four are all in the college football hall of fame and he's a lock.

Yeah, there wasn’t even such a thing as Div. I-AA when tOSU hired Woody from Miami U.

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956 Worldwide

956 Worldwide 34737

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4 hours ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Every organization lets leaders go when it believes they need a change. Coaches are no different. When you need to change, you do it right then. Otherwise, for a football team, poor coaching continues and rot continues. Even if only for a few months, it’s dangerous. Uncertainty with a lame duck or a dick could lead to an exodus through the portal. Advertising to the world from October 15th onward that your job is open is a good thing. Waiting means potentially missing out on a great candidate. 

Coaches do not think they’ll be embarrassed. They don’t give a shit about that. I’m not going to show you a fucking example of it working; it doesn’t lead to immediate results. But it’s very much the norm in business, pro sports and many colleges. The colleges that don’t do it for fear that it might embarrass a guy like Tom Herman or Charlie Strong are pussies too worried about image. It’s a symptom of Texas Football Illness. 

I applaud USC for what they did to Kiffin, Sark and Helton. We are too worried about appearing proper. In football. 

I’m not talking about only an immediate change on the field, I’m talking about even getting a good replacement. It doesn’t really happen that often. ADs fire coaches mideason for cause, or to get fans and boosters off their back. Not because it helps them recruit a better coach. Applauding USC is fine but so far how has that pattern worked out for them?
 

Here’s a list of mid season firings back to 2006. The three times it’s been successful to successful-ish are:

Clemson, which had Swinney waiting on staff.

LSU, which had Orgeron waiting on staff and we will see what happens to Ogre.

Florida after McElwain who was removed not just for losing but for weird statements about death threats, basically for cause. 
 

The rest of these schools had to either cycle through another coach or two, or are still wandering in the wilderness, or jury is out so far.  Schools like Texas don’t need to “officially” open  a job mid season to lure top candidates, as evidenced by the immediate Strong to Herman transfer. Even though Herman didn’t work out, he was the hottest realistic name at the time. Firing a coach mid season broadcasts to candidates that your administration is willing to let fans and boosters run the show. There are plenty of ways to get feelers out and there are a lot more examples of teams getting better coaches by not taking that route than there are of mid season firings changing the trajectory of a program. 
 

https://www.bannersociety.com/2020/12/28/22203713/which-schools-get-opposing-coaches-fired-mid-season

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Jimbob

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8 hours ago, closetohumping said:

Actually I think even Finebaum finally admitted Saban was in play.  Tom Hicks, billionaire alum said if Mack stepped down Saban would've come.  But he's Tom Hicks and we're two randoms on a message board.  Strong was a Bill Powers hire.  We were going to tar and feather Mike Perrin if we let LSU (hey Baton Rouge) steal him from us.  Swinney was a nobody when Clemson got him and we had our shot but chose Strong.

I think Athens is great.  Not sure Jville and Orlando have any pop.

Yes and Blake Gideon let a title shot slip through his hands.  And our punt returner in 83 fumbled away a national title shot.  bringing this up as you're putting the timeline at 40 years.

Saban was in play, he was THE play.  There’s some background there and no one can say for certain that Saban would have done the same thing here as he has done at Bama.  
But it’s easy to speculate, and the CFB landscape might look quite different. 
 

Friday the 13th December 2013 is a day of infamy when Mack stuck his dick in the mash potatoes and Deloss was complicit in not forcing the issue a day prior.  Mack resigned the next day.  
 

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closetohumping

closetohumping 17454

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8 minutes ago, Jimbob said:

Saban was in play, he was THE play.  There’s some background there and no one can say for certain that Saban would have done the same thing here as he has done at Bama.  
But it’s easy to speculate, and the CFB landscape might look quite different. 
 

Friday the 13th December 2013 is a day of infamy when Mack stuck his dick in the mash potatoes and Deloss was complicit in not forcing the issue a day prior.  Mack resigned the next day.  
 

They flashed Saban's extension while they were showing our awards dinner.  I blame Bill Powers (rip) as well. There's a reason why Charlie calls Mack Brown his best friend in Texas btw.

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WhatTheBuck

WhatTheBuck 28794

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7 minutes ago, The Ace of Aces said:

Never been to State College, huh. Lucky. 

It’s not easy to get there. Or to find a hotel room in town on game day. Or to get out of the fucking cow pasture/parking lot after the game. Or to get to the restroom during halftime. Or to even get out of the stadium through one of the four exits. That’s right, count them - four. I’ve never seen a bigger cluster fuck than attending a game in that stadium. That was on 11/1/2003.

The positives were that their lion roar effect that they play over the loud system as often as the Sooners play Boomer Sooner broke down early in the second half. So that went away after several staticky attempts. Then while we were waiting for over an hour to get out of the parking lot we could listen to PSU fans calling into the local sports radio station bitching about the loss. That was entertaining. I can’t remember where we stayed that night but we managed to get to some restaurant in time to see Miami lose 7-31 to Va Tech when the Canes were favored by 3 pts.

Tough road trip but everything worked out okay. Not a trip I plan to ever make again.

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The Ace of Aces

The Ace of Aces 5193

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5 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

It’s not easy to get there. Or to find a hotel room in town on game day. Or to get out of the fucking cow pasture/parking lot after the game. Or to get to the restroom during halftime. Or to even get out of the stadium through one of the four exits. That’s right, count them - four. I’ve never seen a bigger cluster fuck than attending a game in that stadium. That was on 11/1/2003.

The positives were that their lion roar effect that they play over the loud system as often as the Sooners play Boomer Sooner broke down early in the second half. So that went away after several staticky attempts. Then while we were waiting for over an hour to get out of the parking lot we could listen to PSU fans calling into the local sports radio station bitching about the loss. That was entertaining. I can’t remember where we stayed that night but we managed to get to some restaurant in time to see Miami lose 7-31 to Va Tech when the Canes were favored by 3 pts.

Tough road trip but everything worked out okay. Not a trip I plan to ever make again.

I have to go for business a few times a year and a go to a PSU game each season (though in the governors box so a bit different than anyone else). The erector set stadium sucks. Parking sucks, every with the VIP pass. The city is 1.5 hours away from a real airport. there is. It arts or culture. It’s awful in every way.  I have no idea how they get any athlete not from PA to play there.

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BurntOrange&White

BurntOrange&White 39934

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40 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

Imo there are now four states where you can win it all recruiting just kids from that state.  Texas, California, Florida and Georgia. 

Louisiana I'd include to round out a top 5 as the best in state talent. 

Florida, Texas, California, Georgia, Louisiana in that order #6 would probably be Ohio.

I'd be interested to see how ND would rank if they lowered their academic standards for athlete entrance.

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WinningIsHard

WinningIsHard 4053

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All I took from these 4 pages is that Rex planted his flag that Tuscaloosa isn't a shit hole and I find that fucking hilarious. The other arguments are valid but man this has to be trolling. It takes a couple trips to see with your own eyes but google will prove it to you as well. The crime rate is fucked up, the city is old, the percentage of people living in poverty is double the national average. They went there for bryant and they go there now for saban. Texas is a top job because no matter how good you do or how bad you do the narrative is the same...people love to hate us or people love us. We never fade into obscurity like we deserve lol. 

Edited by WinningIsHard
Their there and they’re is really really hard
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