2021-22 PGA thread

[dieucla98 2942]

He shows he's capable of perspective and then basically throws it on the floor and takes a giant dump on it.

He was building such a great legacy. This is Phil at Winged Foot #18 but in real life.

[TonyTexas 10507]

How much of the $40-50M/year endorsement money goes away with Mickelson’s defection and, even more importantly, his quotes?  He’s cutting off his nose to spite his face  

[ocugolf 1214]

So far, I know Phil, Rose, Adam Scott, Westwood, Poulter, Kevin Na, Bubba Watson, and Jason Kokrak have signed on to the Saudi’s. They threw a huge offer at Anthony Kim. So he may be another. From two dudes on Tour.

[4th&Five 41514]

 

[TonyTexas 10507]

3 minutes ago, ocugolf said:

So far, I know Phil, Rose, Adam Scott, Westwood, Poulter, Kevin Na, Bubba Watson, and Jason Kokrak have signed on to the Saudi’s. They threw a huge offer at Anthony Kim. So he may be another. From two dudes on Tour.

DeChambeau is definite. His offer is, reportedly, in excess of $135M. Even though he’s the only one to really move the needle, competitively, I don’t think many will really miss him. 

[ocugolf 1214]

6 minutes ago, TonyTexas said:

DeChambeau is definite. His offer is, reportedly, in excess of $135M. Even though he’s the only one to really move the needle, competitively, I don’t think many will really miss him. 

Ya. They weren’t concrete on him. But i assume he’s going. Their top 10 signings get unlimited use of private jet for them and family. 
 

Only cool thing is the courses in America they have signed up. Maidstone in New York, Chicago golf club, Sand Hills, Ohoopee Match Play Club, and Philadelphia Cricket Club. 

[Mileslong 4728]

Ya. They weren’t concrete on him. But i assume he’s going. Their top 10 signings get unlimited use of private jet for them and family. 
 
Only cool thing is the courses in America they have signed up. Maidstone in New York, Chicago golf club, Sand Hills, Ohoopee Match Play Club, and Philadelphia Cricket Club. 

If the SGL is going to be part of the Asian tour then why would they be allowed to play in the US?

[Sbbruin 21829]

Just now, Mileslong said:

If the SGL is going to be part of the Asian tour then why would they be allowed to play in the US?

It is entirely up to the host club what events they want to host.  There is no geographical restriction.  

[ztejas 43411]

1 minute ago, Mileslong said:

If the SGL is going to be part of the Asian tour then why would they be allowed to play in the US?

Why would they not? There's all kinds of tours and levels of competition besides the Tour here. 

[4th&Five 41514]

NLU said Bedminster and Doral are also on it. Shocking, I know. 

[dieucla98 2942]

1 hour ago, ocugolf said:

So far, I know Phil, Rose, Adam Scott, Westwood, Poulter, Kevin Na, Bubba Watson, and Jason Kokrak have signed on to the Saudi’s. They threw a huge offer at Anthony Kim. So he may be another. From two dudes on Tour.

Your best players are Kevin Na and Jason Kokrak and no one in the top 20. After that, you're looking at OWGR of 40+. This is pathetic. Even with the least watchable player eventually going to them, this has zero interest from me.

Opposite field events have more firepower than this circus.

Edited February 18, 2022 by dieucla98

[TonyTexas 10507]

Surprise, surprise 

 

[field 225]

His name has not been mentioned at all, but I wonder whether a guy like Rickie Fowler would be tempted.  He's making bank with all his sponsorships, but he's not making any cuts.  Does he take what I assume would be unimaginable guaranteed money at a time when his game stinks and he's headed the way of Duval?

[Jive Turkey 12594]

12 minutes ago, field said:

His name has not been mentioned at all, but I wonder whether a guy like Rickie Fowler would be tempted.  He's making bank with all his sponsorships, but he's not making any cuts.  Does he take what I assume would be unimaginable guaranteed money at a time when his game stinks and he's headed the way of Duval?

decent chance those sponsorships go bye bye if he joins the SGL.  plus, he seems pretty image conscious.  and, i think he really wants to show he can make a comeback on the PGA Tour.  so, i don't think he leaves. 

but yeah, he's the exact kind of guy the SGL is likely targeting with $$$.  high profile name who (now) has a family and is struggling on the tour.  if the money is big enough, then he wouldn't miss that sponsorship cash.  good call on him.

 

Edited February 18, 2022 by Jive Turkey

[TonyTexas 10507]

10 minutes ago, field said:

His name has not been mentioned at all, but I wonder whether a guy like Rickie Fowler would be tempted.  He's making bank with all his sponsorships, but he's not making any cuts.  Does he take what I assume would be unimaginable guaranteed money at a time when his game stinks and he's headed the way of Duval?

He’d have to withstand a lot of peer pressure from Justin and Jordan. They have been outspoken against. Of course, friendships don’t pay the bills so who knows. 

[Wulaw Horn 19068]

If there’s no boycott on the majors for joining up (and really there shouldn’t be) you’d be crazy not to go to the Saudi tour. With the majors that makes an 18 week schedule, 14 of which you are guaranteed to cash, plus crazy appearance fees? No brainer. If you can’t play the majors that’s a different animal, but nobody’s legacy at the highest level is made by winning regular tour events. 

[TonyTexas 10507]

^^^

Players, outside of those already  holding exemptions, are going to have a hard time qualifying for the majors if the money and results from the SGL don’t count. 

Edited February 18, 2022 by TonyTexas

[Wulaw Horn 19068]

43 minutes ago, TonyTexas said:

^^^

Players, outside of those already  holding exemptions, are going to have a hard time qualifying for the majors if the money and results from the SGL don’t count. 

It should still count for OGWR, right?  Those tournaments the more highly rated guys you have the more you get points. Seems like if they could knock down 30 or 40 guys in the top 100 it would keep them all up there, right?  

[Wulaw Horn 19068]

45 minutes ago, TonyTexas said:

^^^

Players, outside of those already  holding exemptions, are going to have a hard time qualifying for the majors if the money and results from the SGL don’t count. 

It should still count for OGWR, right?  Those tournaments the more highly rated guys you have the more you get points. Seems like if they could knock down 30 or 40 guys in the top 100 it would keep them all up there, right?  I guess at the end of the day I just see no reason for the majors to fall on their sword protecting the PGA tour. That’s not where their bread is buttered and it doesn’t benefit them to not have guys like BDC in the field. Though, a lot of these guys would have lifetime exemptions to some of the majors and 5 or 10 year exemptions to others of the majors for being past major champs. 

[Mileslong 4728]

Why would they not? There's all kinds of tours and levels of competition besides the Tour here. 

There are European tour events held in the US?

[Mileslong 4728]

Surprise, surprise 
 

Of course, a perfect match. Man F any guy who jumps ship to those POS saudis. That is going to hurt tourneys like the Nelson and Colonial. The PGA should close its doors to those guys…

[TonyTexas 10507]

49 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

It should still count for OGWR, right?

I would think that players from both the PGA and European tours would have a problem with that. It wouldn’t be a level playing field having to compete for points against golfers playing solely in small, shallow field, no cut tournaments. Even WGC events have much bigger fields, usually 72 players. And invitations to those are based on OWGR. Players have to earn their way into them so they are competing against the best in the world. 

Edited February 19, 2022 by TonyTexas

[Wulaw Horn 19068]

19 minutes ago, TonyTexas said:

I would think that players from both the PGA and European tours would have a problem with that. It wouldn’t be a level playing field having to compete for points against golfers playing solely in small, shallow field, no cut tournaments. Even WGC events have much bigger fields, usually 72 players. And invitations to those are based on OWGR. Players have to earn their way into them so they are competing against the best in the world. 

Tigers 15 person Hero tournament counts for OWGR rankings. The WGC 64 person match play and the 60 and 80 no cut tourneys count. The fed ex 60 and 30 no cut playoff tournaments count. That’s pretty similar to what it looks like they are going to be doing. 
I understand your sentiment and don’t necessarily disagree, but there’s ample precedent for similar type stuff counting and if the fields are good enough there’s not a ton of justification not to count them. Especially since it’s paired with the Asian tour. 

[ztejas 43411]

54 minutes ago, Mileslong said:

There are European tour events held in the US?

Wtf are you talking about? There are 10,000 courses in the US. You don't need the PGA Tour's permission to host a tournament at any of them. 

Are you aware that the Euro tour plays it's end of season championship in Dubai? Or that the 4 majors count as an event on the PGA, Euro and Japan tours?

[Mileslong 4728]

Wtf are you talking about? There are 10,000 courses in the US. You don't need the PGA Tour's permission to host a tournament at any of them. 
Are you aware that the Euro tour plays it's end of season championship in Dubai? Or that the 4 majors count as an event on the PGA, Euro and Japan tours?

I don’t follow the fucking schedules of every tour, I asked a fucking question about it since I didn’t know. That’s doesn’t mean Phil didn’t make one of the biggest sick moves ever by trashing the PGA Tour that made him rich.

Go listen to what other pros like JT are saying about it. The PGA could ban him for comments but won’t, however, if he and his lawyers really are involved with structuring the SDL tour then they might very well ban him and I wish they would.

So now go suck your boy BDC’s dick…

[conVINCEd 21469]

Saudi-funded organization playing tournaments at Trump properties?

[4th&Five 41514]

25 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Tigers 15 person Hero tournament counts for OWGR rankings. The WGC 64 person match play and the 60 and 80 no cut tourneys count. The fed ex 60 and 30 no cut playoff tournaments count. That’s pretty similar to what it looks like they are going to be doing. 
I understand your sentiment and don’t necessarily disagree, but there’s ample precedent for similar type stuff counting and if the fields are good enough there’s not a ton of justification not to count them. Especially since it’s paired with the Asian tour. 

The Hero is a much stronger field than the rumored SGL would be. 

[TonyTexas 10507]

27 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

if the fields are good enough

That’s the big issue. The fields are going to be weak. 

[Wulaw Horn 19068]

7 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

The Hero is a much stronger field than the rumored SGL would be. 

Yeah- that’s why my hypothetical that started this was “if you could lock down 30 or 40 of the top 100…”

This tour would kill it if they really could get most of the top 50 players.  And I think those guys actually would love that set up and tour. 
Nobody is passing on this (imo) bc of loyalty toward the tour, but rather because they aren’t sure this thing will get off the ground so why rock the boat if the thing fails. 
it’s crazy to me that the tour owns all their digital rights when they are in essence 1099 employees. 
I don’t care one way or another what happens as long as the majors aren’t messed up, but the tour sitting on almost 3 commas worth of loot is pretty incredible of Phil is to be believed. 

[Wulaw Horn 19068]

3 minutes ago, TonyTexas said:

That’s the big issue. The fields are going to be weak. 

Yeah. For now. If those checks actually get cashed, the Saudi’s actually out on the tournaments and don’t stiff people we will see how weak the field will be in 5 years. I have no idea if this will be a thing or not that happens but I’m not dismissing it out of hand. 
In some ways I think it could really work if they got really good fields and played 14 times a year. Add 4 majors and Ryder Cup or presidents cup and if you had the top 30 or 50 guys on the same course 20 times a year that would be about perfect from a spectator standpoint, and that is about all those guys really want to play anyway. 
I don’t know that anyone other than an in his prime Tiger could have really made this happen. BDC, old man Mickeltits, Justin Rose, Jason K and DJ does not a viable break away tour make, obviously. 

[TonyTexas 10507]

5 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Ryder Cup or presidents cup

Since the PGA runs both, I doubt they would be invited. 

[Wulaw Horn 19068]

1 minute ago, TonyTexas said:

Since the PGA runs both, I doubt they would be invited. 

PGA of America runs the Ryder cup for sure, same guys that run the PGA Championship. Nothing to do with the tour. The tour might run the presidents cup, I don’t know. 

[Lurch 5922]

Still on Team Fuck Phil, but this is a good explainer thread despite his conclusion

[Wulaw Horn 19068]

9 minutes ago, Lurch said:

Still on Team Fuck Phil, but this is a good explainer thread despite his conclusion
 

Yep. This is totally and completely true. When I read Phil had to pay the tour 7 figures to have the right to put on “the match” with Tiger I didn’t understand where that was coming from. 
these guys on tour aren’t guaranteed anything. They pay to enter tournaments and might make 0, on top of travel costs and coaching costs etc. It takes big money to play a tour schedule and those guys are justifiably pissed in a lot of ways I’m sure when the tour clamps down on their ability to earn.

his point about Tiger and Phil subsidizing the tour and making lots of guys tons of money at their own expense isn’t wrong. 
now, it’s not like Phils 90,000,000 earnings is remotely close to what he got out of being a professional golfer. Inwoukdninaginenaooeranxe fees, outings, sponsorships and endorsements have him making what- 250 million?  500 million?  I imagine Tiger is also around a billion as well, but most of it didn’t come from competition on the tour and some of it came despite the tour not because of it. 
Compare this to the MLB players union where they sell the rank and file out all the time to chase biggest possible dollars for the top stars, in a world where travel and costs are paid for and contracts are guaranteed and you can understand where he’s coming from. 

[4th&Five 41514]

The PGA isn’t the NFL or even the NBA though. The average tournament doesn’t equal shit compared to every Sunday NFL game. Michael Jordan never made what he was worth either while he was subsidizing lesser players. 
 

I tend to agree with Rory. How much do you really need?

[ztejas 43411]

4 hours ago, Mileslong said:

I don’t follow the fucking schedules of every tour, I asked a fucking question about it since I didn’t know. That’s doesn’t mean Phil didn’t make one of the biggest sick moves ever by trashing the PGA Tour that made him rich.

Go listen to what other pros like JT are saying about it. The PGA could ban him for comments but won’t, however, if he and his lawyers really are involved with structuring the SDL tour then they might very well ban him and I wish they would.

So now go suck your boy BDC’s dick…

I'm not pro-Saudi golf league. I think it's fucking stupid. And I would hope most people here are aware of where the Euro tour championship is played and that majors count as events on multiple tours. That isn't a high bar of golf knowledge. 

But, hey, sounds like you learned a few things today. 

Edited February 19, 2022 by ztejas

[tx 3 putt 76870]

if they bring back anthony kim, ill watch

 

[ztejas 43411]

14 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

I tend to agree with Rory. How much do you really need?

I love Rory. He's been my favorite golfer for over a decade. But I'm not sure he's the right person to be asking others how much money they need. I'm guessing he's banked more than everyone but Tiger and Phil. 

Also - professional athletes are professional athletes to an extent. Some of these guys could have blown a ton of cash in ways that other pros haven't. 

Edited February 19, 2022 by ztejas

[TonyTexas 10507]

It’s not like some fat cat owners are pocketing all the money. It’s the distribution that some players are bitching about.  And the tour is attempting to address that in various ways.
You can look at tax returns and get a good idea of the financial structure. 
https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/520999206

[Pam Cummings 9639]

10 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Yep. This is totally and completely true. When I read Phil had to pay the tour 7 figures to have the right to put on “the match” with Tiger I didn’t understand where that was coming from. 
these guys on tour aren’t guaranteed anything. They pay to enter tournaments and might make 0, on top of travel costs and coaching costs etc. It takes big money to play a tour schedule and those guys are justifiably pissed in a lot of ways I’m sure when the tour clamps down on their ability to earn.

his point about Tiger and Phil subsidizing the tour and making lots of guys tons of money at their own expense isn’t wrong. 
now, it’s not like Phils 90,000,000 earnings is remotely close to what he got out of being a professional golfer. Inwoukdninaginenaooeranxe fees, outings, sponsorships and endorsements have him making what- 250 million?  500 million?  I imagine Tiger is also around a billion as well, but most of it didn’t come from competition on the tour and some of it came despite the tour not because of it. 
Compare this to the MLB players union where they sell the rank and file out all the time to chase biggest possible dollars for the top stars, in a world where travel and costs are paid for and contracts are guaranteed and you can understand where he’s coming from. 

Phil didn't pay one cent of that million. Turner Sports paid it. And the PGA Tour could have just flat out said no. That's just how media rights work.

 

Phil lying about that should probably be a clue that he's full of it. Insider trading scumbag.

 

https://www.golfchannel.com/news/mickelsons-statements-inaccurate-and-ironic-obnoxious-greed-et-tu-phil?amp

Edited February 19, 2022 by Pam Cummings

[Wulaw Horn 19068]

2 hours ago, Pam Cummings said:

Phil didn't pay one cent of that million. Turner Sports paid it. And the PGA Tour could have just flat out said no. That's just how media rights work.

 

Phil lying about that should probably be a clue that he's full of it. Insider trading scumbag.

 

https://www.golfchannel.com/news/mickelsons-statements-inaccurate-and-ironic-obnoxious-greed-et-tu-phil?amp

I don’t know the inner details or workings of everything going on at a tour level detail or all the issues involved. I’m merely a guy that once played at a high-ish high school level (4 year letterman, played in the state tournament once, was alternate on a team that won a state title) and was teammates and friends with a couple guys that played professionally including one who won a PGA tournament but would otherwise probably be considered a rabbit or dew sweeper and another guy who kicked around mini tours for a long time and is friends/contemporaries with guys like Chad Campbell for one that people on here who really follow golf should have heard of. 

I don’t know what Phil is saying that’s true or not, or what details have been embellished. I do know that he’s done waaaaaay more for the tour than 98% of guys out there, and a ton of people owe tons of money to him and, more specifically Tiger. 

Presumably, if Tuner was willing to pay the money to the tour on Phil’s behalf they would have also been willing to give it to him instead, either in the form of prize money or an appearance fee, so I don’t know that that particular criticism of Phil not paying is persuasive or particularly valuable. 
 

I think it’s instructive to note that the talk of many tour players swearing fealty to the tour, guys like Rory, isn’t necessarily that the tour is doing everything right but that going over to a fledgling organization is “too risky”. that makes me think that some of these guys are more risk averse than loyal, and if the competing tour gets up and running and demonstrates stability they might then be willing to move. 

The fact that it’s Phil and BDC that are the face of this thing, seemingly, is instructive. Both of those guys have their fans but are well known by people who have any glimpse beyond public persona as egotistical Dbags. There’s a reason Phil is known as Figjam around tour. He might be almost as good as he thinks he is. He might not be the messenger that is sympathetic because of those issues, but that also doesn’t mean that he is wrong about what he’s saying. Hell, I thought the PIP thing was a terrible idea as a give away to the big stars not based upon performance, until I started reading up on it and it made a lot of sense. 

Maybe, as a guy like Pat Perez said, we should be looking at some guaranteed money for these guys at the lower level and bigger money for the guys at the top of the food chain. Maybe appearance fees at tournaments on the PGA tour are appropriate for the bigger stars.  Hell, maybe how they have it designed is absolutely perfect and can’t be changed or improved upon. I don’t know well enough to have a super strong opinion one way or another on this. 

I think it’s likely, however, that there is truth and legitimacy to all stakeholders opinions. The stars are the vehicles that prop up the tour. If someone wants to come up with a champions league type set up for those stars for them to fully capitalize and bank on their marketability while they collect huge and guaranteed money I guess I can’t say I blame them one way or another if they decide that’s an appealing option. 

the Saudi’s are shit bags. that doesn’t mean there isn’t a market or opportunity for something more that can be done to cater to the guys that move the needle. The fall schedule sucks. Does anyone like the wrap around nature of the tour now where the season starts in October? Maybe the answer is moving the WGC events from 3 or 4 to 8 or 10 and counting them as tour events with smaller fields and bigger guaranteed money, and/or appearance fees. Maybe nothing should be done. I like the idea of every guy having to play somewhere over a 5 year period. If you did that it might improve some of the smaller tournaments. Trade that for appearance fees, or no cut exclusive fields, or limited requirements of total number of overall dates. 
 

 

Edited February 19, 2022 by Wulaw Horn

[ocugolf 1214]

20 hours ago, TonyTexas said:

DeChambeau is definite. His offer is, reportedly, in excess of $135M. Even though he’s the only one to really move the needle, competitively, I don’t think many will really miss him. 

Ya. They weren’t concrete on him. But i assume he’s going. Their top 10 signings get unlimited use of private jet for them and family. 
 

Only cool thing is the courses in America they have signed up. Maidstone in New York, Chicago golf club, Sand Hills, Ohoopee Match Play Club, and Philadelphia Cricket Club. 

[ocugolf 1214]

Apparently going to use NIL deals to try and get the best college players. Feeder system to the tour to build new stars. 

[tx 3 putt 76870]

https://golf.com/news/jordan-spieth-caddie-troll-justin-thomas/

 

damn that's funny. spieth's caddy trolling thomas over the 2012 ncca championship. trolls him yearly lol

[ztejas 43411]

Rory apparently playing the Valero this year. Usually or has always taken the week prior to the Masters off. I'm sure the tournament organizers are happy to hear that. 

[dieucla98 2942]

3 hours ago, ztejas said:

Rory apparently playing the Valero this year. Usually or has always taken the week prior to the Masters off. I'm sure the tournament organizers are happy to hear that. 

Rory is a savvy dude. He realized that match play rounds as a warm up before the masters is not smart.

Downside is, per him, he may skip Austin.

 

[4th&Five 41514]

DJ not going to Bonesaw tour. 

 

Edited February 20, 2022 by 4th&Five

[TonyTexas 10507]

Big blow to this nonsense. FIGJAM, BDC and the Saudis might have the lowest Q score in the history of Q scores. 

[TonyTexas 10507]

[LTtxfan 49144]

6 minutes ago, TonyTexas said:

Big blow to this nonsense. FIGJAM, BDC and the Saudis might have the lowest Q score in the history of Q scores. 

Had to look up "Figjam" nickname...

"But not everyone is a Mickelson fan. Earlier in his career, he acquired the unflattering nickname "Figjam," which is an acronym that begins with a profanity: "F---, I'm good, just ask me."