2021-22 PGA thread

[Incredulity 11671]

 

[Mileslong 4727]

Not gonna lie.  The coverage on YouTube is not terrible.  Showing lots of golf shots.

I disagree, this is behind horrible. You really want to see a constant update ribbon on what the teams are doing with their stupid logos taking 20% of the screen?

The announcers are exclaiming that the hot balls just took the lead on the hy flyers!

[Blotto 23508]

14 minutes ago, Covri said:

Some opinions seems to be they’ll keep throwing money at it and eventually people will stop talking about the atrocities they commit and forget about them, and they’ll be known as a sports financing county not a terrorist financing country. Trying to buy their way to a better reputation basically. I doubt they care if they make money if it changes their perception around the world.

Thats the only thing that really makes sense. They make so much fucking money from oil currently that even if they lose $1 billion dollars a year, it wont make any difference to the Saudi elite that control the Public Investment Fund. But I question the sanity behind thinking this will really change peoples mind. When it comes to human rights, they are an oppressive government. I dont think paying a bunch or rich golfers a lot more money is all that convincing an argument that things have changed. I guess time will tell. 

[pops 6985]

There is a reason the pga is coming out so strong...they are scared. 

Norman has wanted to fuck the pga tour since finchem fucked him on the WGT and turned around and started the WGC. And Norman finally found someone with enough fuck you money to make a real run. 

I don't think it will happen, but honestly if they got rory, spieth, scheffler, jt and morikawa?  That's tough. Yeah,  there are a lot of good players still left but the tour is 5 to 10 guys away from a tipping point. 

I watched for a minute this morning. The team names and that constantly shifting leaderboard is dumb. But I kind of dig the shotgun. Could make for cool final holes on sun....um....Saturday. 

 

Edited June 9, 2022 by pops

[Litig8r 414]

Video of shotgun start for liv tour.   

https://twitter.com/i/status/1534618024870825985

[Guest]

Well, the Women’s circuit won’t have to worry  about the ladies leaving.

Edited June 9, 2022 by slorch

[MonkeyDoughnut 10235]

Not sure why the PGA decided to speed up their own demise by not allowing these players to play on their tour too.  They would still have played the big events on the tour, but now they will just 100% promote LIV and eventually every up and comer will go over there as they can be bought for a few guaranteed millions early on in their careers to make the switch.

Edited June 9, 2022 by MonkeyDoughnut

[Auto Driller 2505]

All the players going to LIV are losers, misfits, or past their prime. Everyone worth a shit sees the PGA and the opportunities it provides through sponsorships, the Champions Tour, and the pension as the better choice. Even if you didn’t have to ignore morality and become a stooge in a propaganda effort designed to improve the image of an evil dictator, the PGA makes more sense. If you’re worried about losing your tour card in a few months it probably makes sense to take the money and run.

The team aspect of LIV is pure cringe. Oh wow, I can’t wait to see what the Niblicks do this week! The Hy Flyers and 4 Aces are really at each other’s throats after that 9th hole!!

LIV was initially expecting to get a couple hundred million for broadcast rights. A few weeks ago, I read they were offering the rights for free to anyone who would take them. And yet here we are with their first event being broadcast on Facebook and YouTube.

I don’t give two shits about who wins any LIV events and in a few weeks, once the novelty has worn off, neither will anyone else.

[Texzilla58 4735]

Not sure why the PGA decided to speed up their own demise by not allowing these players to play on their tour too.  They would still have played the big events on the tour, but now they will just 100% promote LIV and eventually every up and comer will go over there as they can be bought for a few guaranteed millions early on in their careers to make the switch.

Because allowing them to play both actually fuels the LIV. Ban their ass, cancel their pensions, no senior tour, as of now zero TV exposure. Working for fucking oil shieks who are fucking every golf fan at the pump after we have shed blood to pull their fat out of the fire. They aren’t going to get a big TV sponsor because no one wants to be seen doing business with OPEC, terrorists, And a murderous oppressive government. By banning the rebels, they put a big bag of issues to consider by the fence sitters who were waiting to see how things played out. PGA launched a fucking ICBM right at these fucking Saudis, the way we should have in 73.

[ocugolf 1214]

They are about 20 players with some sort of name recognition away from it being watchable.  I played college golf, watch golf, play golf, and follow golf and I could recognize 19 of the 48 player field by name.  If they think that people are going to tune in to watch a battle between Richard Bland and Oliver Wilson (two of the 19 I recognized), they have lost their mind.  Let alone two of the randoms.  In their promo video today, they sneak dropped Bubba and Matt Wolff.  So with Reed, Bryson, Wolff, and Bubba, thats 4 more.  Still need a minimum 16.

[ConferenceRoom 6141]

1 hour ago, 4th&Five said:

What a tool. 

 

He looks like a shlemiel. 

[MonkeyDoughnut 10235]

9 minutes ago, Texzilla58 said:

Because allowing them to play both actually fuels the LIV. Ban their ass, cancel their pensions, no senior tour, as of now zero TV exposure. Working for fucking oil shieks who are fucking every golf fan at the pump after we have shed blood to pull their fat out of the fire. They aren’t going to get a big TV sponsor because no one wants to be seen doing business with OPEC, terrorists, And a murderous oppressive government. By banning the rebels, they put a big bag of issues to consider by the fence sitters who were waiting to see how things played out. PGA launched a fucking ICBM right at these fucking Saudis, the way we should have in 73.

or another take is they exposed the PGA as anti-player. The players aren't hurt if the LIV takes off as it means more money, more opportunity, only the PGA gets hurt.

[Blotto 23508]

9 minutes ago, Auto Driller said:

All the players going to LIV are losers, misfits, or past their prime. Everyone worth a shit sees the PGA and the opportunities it provides through sponsorships, the Champions Tour, and the pension as the better choice. Even if you didn’t have to ignore morality and become a stooge in a propaganda effort designed to improve the image of an evil dictator, the PGA makes more sense. If you’re worried about losing your tour card in a few months it probably makes sense to take the money and run.

The team aspect of LIV is pure cringe. Oh wow, I can’t wait to see what the Niblicks do this week! The Hy Flyers and 4 Aces are really at each other’s throats after that 9th hole!!

LIV was initially expecting to get a couple hundred million for broadcast rights. A few weeks ago, I read they were offering the rights for free to anyone who would take them. And yet here we are with their first event being broadcast on Facebook and YouTube.

I don’t give two shits about who wins any LIV events and in a few weeks, once the novelty has worn off, neither will anyone else.

Dont read too much into this. The networks are money whores. Just because they decline initially when the LIV was DJ and a bunch of scrubs, doesnt mean they will decline in a few months if more and more tour players defect. They passed originally because the PGA represented more money to them. That assessment will be continually reviewed. 

[Guest]

Ok, so I am not the average golf fan. I don't play (would like to), and I only watch one tournament a year (Masters). Other than that, I keep tabs on it, in so much as I keep tabs on any sport that's ongoing.

What the hell is this stuff? I just watched about 3 minutes of the YouTube feed. It's the XFL for golf? 

If you are making $100 million guaranteed, what is the purse for the events? Is it ever enough for you to really care? 

[bullzak 422]

If you end up with two watered down tours I will just watch less golf. Pretty easy for me. I dont watch minor league baseball or small college basketball either.

So far Bryson is the only really elite current player but he's a weapons grade douchebag so not sure there is a real loss there. 

Its all a big PR ploy by the Saudis but its a loser unless one of those guys up and wins a major. Bryson is probably only current threat to do that but not going to happen this year. 

I think the best they can hope for is Champions Tour level of interest. Meh. 

[MonkeyDoughnut 10235]

2 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

Ok, so I am not the average golf fan. I don't play (would like to), and I only watch one tournament a year (Masters). Other than that, I keep tabs on it, in so much as I keep tabs on any sport that's ongoing.

What the hell is this stuff? I just watched about 3 minutes of the YouTube feed. It's the XFL for golf? 

If you are making $100 million guaranteed, what is the purse for the events? Is it ever enough for you to really care? 

It will make your Masters watching that more entertaining if a LIV tour golfer is sitting at the top at any time.  A little LIV v PGA spat.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13512]

I can understand why leagues like the NFL prevent their under-contract players from joining another league. Those players are receiving a paycheck to play for the team/NFL. Both side have some level of commitment to the other.

The PGA Tour doesn't pay them a salary so bs that they tell them how they spend their spare time. Correct me if I'm wrong but does the PGA even force players to show up at certain tournaments. I do understand there is some level of effort to retain Tour membership.

To me, golfers come across as independent contractors so it seems like bs to punish them for taking another job one week.

[4th&Five 41550]

1 minute ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

It will make your Masters watching that more entertaining if a LIV tour golfer is sitting at the top at any time.  A little LIV v PGA spat.

If the Masters allows them to play. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13512]

6 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

If you are making $100 million guaranteed, what is the purse for the events? Is it ever enough for you to really care? 

Why does an NFL player care about winning the Super Bowl or any game. It's not worth that much to them due to the contract.

[TonyTexas 10512]

The purse for every LIV tournament is $25M with the winner getting $4M. There is some team payouts as well.  By comparison, the Masters and PGA purse is $15M with the winner banking $2.7M. It’s a little bit more than a per diem. 

Edited June 9, 2022 by TonyTexas

[4th&Five 41550]

7 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Why does an NFL player care about winning the Super Bowl or any game. It's not worth that much to them due to the contract.

I’m sure there are guys on every team making guaranteed money that don’t really care about the result. Just like there are guys playing these pro sports that don’t even like it but they’re good at it and paid well. 

[tx 3 putt 76957]

19 hours ago, Hate said:

So they maybe play 12 events a year?? I get the money part, but aren’t they going to miss the competition weekly? I guess competing for boats and hoes 40 weeks a year will suffice.

who wants 40 weeks in the road ?

[tx 3 putt 76957]

58 minutes ago, Auto Driller said:

All the players going to LIV are losers, misfits, or past their prime.

It’s only a matter time before they start attracting the college kids. That will be the true game changer 

[Incredulity 11671]

24 minutes ago, bullzak said:

If you end up with two watered down tours I will just watch less golf. Pretty easy for me. I dont watch minor league baseball or small college basketball either.

So far Bryson is the only really elite current player but he's a weapons grade douchebag so not sure there is a real loss there. 

Its all a big PR ploy by the Saudis but its a loser unless one of those guys up and wins a major. Bryson is probably only current threat to do that but not going to happen this year. 

I think the best they can hope for is Champions Tour level of interest. Meh. 

Dustin Johnson is less than a year removed from being a World #1 and #1 ranked for nearly half of the last 2 years.

 

I don't disagree with the rest of your premise.

Edited June 9, 2022 by Incredulity

[Auto Driller 2505]

2 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

It’s only a matter time before they start attracting the college kids. That will be the true game changer 

I agree - I’m sure this is part of their plan. Give a few million in guaranteed money and they’ll get someone to bite.

The issue is that the quality of play on the PGA Tour is based on everyone having to earn their card. Go check out the NCAA individual golf champions for the past 10 years. Sure, there are names like DeChambeau, Matt Wolff, and Max Homa. But alongside them are Braden Thornberry, Broc Everett, and Cameron Wilson. The “Invitational” aspect of LIV means that the quality of play is going to nosedive unless they do what they intended to do all along - poach established players from the existing tours.

[ztejas 43445]

22 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

If the Masters allows them to play. 

I will be stunned if the Masters doesn't let them play. There's 5 past champions now by my count. It hurts the prestige of the Masters if they bar all of those guys plus the guys that would qualify in a different fashion. The US Open is letting them play. 

[Auto Driller 2505]

Just now, ztejas said:

I will be stunned if the Masters doesn't let them play. There's 5 past champions now by my count. It hurts the prestige of the Masters if they bar all of those guys plus the guys that would qualify in a different fashion. The US Open is letting them play. 

They will let them play due to past champion status. Assuming LIV is around for more than a few years though, this problem will take care of itself. LIV players won’t be winning any new majors and the current past champions will retire.

[Wally Fairway 5549]

15 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

It’s only a matter time before they start attracting the college kids. That will be the true game changer 

 

7 minutes ago, Auto Driller said:

I agree - I’m sure this is part of their plan. Give a few million in guaranteed money and they’ll get someone to bite.

 

They already have - current US Am champion/MSU recent graduate James Piot is playing this week. He is not a PGA Tour member, has no status on any tour. So he jumped at the chance to get guaranteed money. He is on Team Sergio (whatever they call it - maybe the Gopherholes), so he gets some signing bonus (I would presume), guaranteed $100,000 for just playing/last place finish, and a share of whatever Team Sergio wins.

It will be interesting to see how Am's, who have no standing on the PGA tour are treated if /when LIV fails and players have to find their way to a tour. Also, the letter from Commish Jay, stated that tour member cannot be given a sponsors exemption, but the event in Detroit has already offered Piot a spot. Kid has resigned the tour or been kicked out, so it will be interesting if he is blackballed for playing in a different tour. Lawyers will certainly be involved, it is the American way.

[bigup2dahorns 3343]

The pre game show (for the PGA tour event) on the golf channel is all about the LIV situation

[heso 2794]

Every single one of the top guys on some level of a downward trend. The group of guys in the top 50 have more missed cuts than top 10s in the last year. 

The most obvious was Phil, he got an insane amount of money. he’d likely never win another tournament on tour. 

Bryson’s body might not allow him to be competitive on tour on a consistent basis. 

Rickie, assuming he joins, might lose is pga tour card on his own. 

Reed has gone from 7th to 36th in the last 2 years and has 4 missed cuts to to top 10s (7, 3). 

Bubba is down to 70th. 

all of those guys are bigger name guys that are struggling for big payouts on tour and presumably got huge payouts to jump over because of their name. 

If you’re struggling on tour and get offered a huge paycheck to finish top 10 by beating a small handful of scrubs, why not take it? It’s good for your bank account, good for your ego, and potentially better for the perception of your current golfing ability 

Add in a bunch of fading internationals, a bunch of no-names outside the top 200 and a few amateurs that are facing the grind of working up through the KF tour. 

For DJ it was just a big paycheck. He seems to not give a fuck about anything other than the economics of it. 

[thunderlounge 7832]

See, the reason we're here is Norman. When he tried in the early-mid 90's to do this, he had interest from players, but not commitments. The way it all went down then made him bitter. He finally found money with the Saudi's, and here we are.

However, the approach was all wrong. This reeks of Norman and his attitude, and not just because he's the "face" of it right now.

If they were smart and not making emotional decisions, they would have found they could have:

a) made a lot of money
b) got the names they wanted, no problem
c) could have made the professional side of the game even better

How?

 

Take the singles/team format, that's fine, but done wrong.

First, let the players organize their teams, maybe with some stipulations to try and keep teams competitive overall.

Second, to start, make it a 6 event schedule. 4 "qualifying events", and the top 4 (or however many) make the last 2.

Then you get with the EU/PGA and work it out to make it a competition. Put it on weeks where the PGA is a scrubfest, and try to not make yourself such a threat.

Now see, a side competition could become a ryder/presidents cup on steroids. Work it a bit, try to be a good steward of the game.

Or something like that. Not sure they could have planned it much worse without involving fire and gas-o-line.

 

Either way, it's still saudi backed, so fuck them.

But I can still see appeal, especially to younger players that may see the bigger picture with a wiser mind than most. The PGA couldn't fuck with them if they go LIV, make a solid base of cash to be set enough, and then try the PGA Tour. Can't really fuck with them at that point, since they weren't tour members to begin with.

 

[Guest]

46 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Why does an NFL player care about winning the Super Bowl or any game. It's not worth that much to them due to the contract.

I highly doubt that most of the players of a random Detroit versus Seattle game care that much one way or the other. Super Bowl yes, but winning a LIV tournament is not the Super Bowl.

[Grade of D as in David 13253]

2 hours ago, Incredulity said:

 

Haha like DJ can read.

[conVINCEd 21469]

12 minutes ago, Auto Driller said:

They will let them play due to past champion status. Assuming LIV is around for more than a few years though, this problem will take care of itself. LIV players won’t be winning any new majors and the current past champions will retire.

You can play on past champion status for a long time.  I realize that recently it has become a thing to gracefully bow out when you aren’t breaking 80 anymore, but you’re kidding yourself if you think John Daly won’t be teeing it up at the PGA and The Open well into his 70’s and signing autographs at the nearest Hooters for $10 while burning his way through two packs of smokes.

[Trey3216 15346]

2 hours ago, Blotto said:

Thats the only thing that really makes sense. They make so much fucking money from oil currently that even if they lose $1 billion dollars a year, it wont make any difference to the Saudi elite that control the Public Investment Fund. But I question the sanity behind thinking this will really change peoples mind. When it comes to human rights, they are an oppressive government. I dont think paying a bunch or rich golfers a lot more money is all that convincing an argument that things have changed. I guess time will tell. 

They've made enough money extra money in the past 105 days to fund this thing at $2bn/year for the next 13 years.  Extra money.  They don't give 2 fucks about losing money because it's already been made.  

[Firemans4Horn 18049]

 

[ztejas 43445]

9 minutes ago, heso said:

Bryson’s body might not allow him to be competitive on tour on a consistent basis. 

There is no way that Bryson thinks that he can't play competitive golf. He hasn't been playing well because he hasn't been healthy. We'll see if it turns into a chronic issue for him but he's still on the right side of 30. I think he's chasing money and isn't interested in playing lower-level tour events. 

7 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

I highly doubt that most of the players of a random Detroit versus Seattle game care that much one way or the other.

You have to be kidding. The NFL is the most ruthlessly competitive sports league on the planet. Oh, you don't care about this week 15 game against Detroit? That's cool - we'll just cut you and find someone that does. Have you watched Hard Knocks? It isn't the NBA. 

[conVINCEd 21469]

3 minutes ago, ztejas said:

There is no way that Bryson thinks that he can't play competitive golf. He hasn't been playing well because he hasn't been healthy. We'll see if it turns into a chronic issue for him but he's still on the right side of 30. I think he's chasing money and isn't interested in playing lower-level tour events. 

You have to be kidding. The NFL is the most ruthlessly competitive sports league on the planet. Oh, you don't care about this week 15 game against Detroit? That's cool - we'll just cut you and find someone that does. Have you watched Hard Knocks? It isn't the NBA. 

Grandpa, who was an all around badass mfer, told me something when I was a teenager.  He said I don’t want you to do anything half-assed, but you can half-ass your way through a basketball or baseball game or golf tournament and no harm will come from it.  But if you’re stepping on a football field or into a boxing ring you better be serious about what you’re doing or you’re gonna get hurt.

[TonyTexas 10512]

10 minutes ago, Firemans4Horn said:

 

That will get the press on their side. And alleviate the Saudi image as oppressors. 

[heso 2794]

8 minutes ago, ztejas said:

There is no way that Bryson thinks that he can't play competitive golf. He hasn't been playing well because he hasn't been healthy. We'll see if it turns into a chronic issue for him but he's still on the right side of 30. I think he's chasing money and isn't interested in playing lower-level tour events. 

You have to be kidding. The NFL is the most ruthlessly competitive sports league on the planet. Oh, you don't care about this week 15 game against Detroit? That's cool - we'll just cut you and find someone that does. Have you watched Hard Knocks? It isn't the NBA. 

Bryson’s thoughts often don’t line up with reality. He thought he could overpower Augusta and some people actually believed him when he said it was a par 67 for him. He’s gone T34, T47, MC since then. 

I’m not saying he’s finished at competitive golf. He’s just not healthy enough to be good right now. He got offered a bunch of money to play against a field of mostly scrubs. He has to be better than the 72nd ranked golfer to finish top ten. He might not make the cut with that on the PGA tour. So he can beat up on scrubs and get paid while he works out the problems with his body. 

[ztejas 43445]

9 minutes ago, heso said:

Bryson’s thoughts often don’t line up with reality. He thought he could overpower Augusta and some people actually believed him when he said it was a par 67 for him. He’s gone T34, T47, MC since then. 

I’m not saying he’s finished at competitive golf. He’s just not healthy enough to be good right now. He got offered a bunch of money to play against a field of mostly scrubs. He has to be better than the 72nd ranked golfer to finish top ten. He might not make the cut with that on the PGA tour. So he can beat up on scrubs and get paid while he works out the problems with his body. 

I guess my point is that even if he was healthy and crushing it I think he'd still bail. 

[heso 2794]

6 minutes ago, ztejas said:

I guess my point is that even if he was healthy and crushing it I think he'd still bail. 

Maybe, but other than DJ, no one who is crushing it has bailed. 

[TonyTexas 10512]

17 minutes ago, ztejas said:

I guess my point is that even if he was healthy and crushing it I think he'd still bail. 

iirc. BDC was the 1st name associated with an alternative tour. He was always going. 

[Blotto 23508]

If ESPN has the scorecard from the LIV tournament, they dont make it easy to find. I guess its likely there is no data feed they can hook into, just thought it was interesting that the leading sports internet site isnt posting scores. 

[heso 2794]

5 minutes ago, Blotto said:

If ESPN has the scorecard from the LIV tournament, they dont make it easy to find. I guess its likely there is no data feed they can hook into, just thought it was interesting that the leading sports internet site isnt posting scores. 

From what Reddit said the LIV website didn’t even have a leaderboard.

[Texas St. Armadillos 1381]

Just now, heso said:

From what Reddit said the LIV website didn’t even have a leaderboard.

I think that was intentional so you had to watch.

[heso 2794]

Greame McDowell saying in his post round interview that he hasn’t heard if half the guys he’s playing against this week. -supposedly, Reddit. 

[thunderlounge 7832]

Had they heard of him?

[Jive Turkey 12598]

2 hours ago, Firemans4Horn said:

 

This is fucked up. 

 

[Auto Driller 2505]

Well at least we already have evidence that the Saudis are serious about changing their ways and being more tolerant.