Teacher goes Rocko

[Brewin’1up 34]

Suck it up buttercup. There are several teachers in my family, and none of them went into teaching thinking they were going to get rich.

Hint: Christmas break, Spring break, and Summer break.

[InkaUtexas 25951]

4 hours ago, SHOOTER12 said:

ouch dammit, that was hurtful 250.....

Hang out at Sewell and be blessed thankful for all those future teachers. I know I am. 

[Gene Parmesan 4007]

9 minutes ago, Larry T. Spider said:

It would be the equivalent of 69.5k, except that's not an option. The days off are nice but when I was teaching I had to work a side job most of those days to afford anything my friends were doing. It's perfect if you have a high earning spouse, come from money, or want to live like a college student forever. Most of us (in Austin, at least) work in some way and at a rate worse than a teaching salary during that time. It's not a complaint and the teacher salary schedule is posted online. It does impact retention though. 

You guys are losing me with statements like the bolded above.  It does sound like AISD teachers are getting the shit end of the stick though. 

[riloh05 107]

8 minutes ago, Gene Parmesan said:

You guys are losing me with statements like the bolded above.  It does sound like AISD teachers are getting the shit end of the stick though. 

Good point, fantastic actually. My first thread in here I pointed out that I was teaching when a buddy of mine started making some serious coin. That inspired me to look into a different career because what I was doing was not giving me the life I wanted. Then I get shitted on for telling folks to find another career path that allows you to make more coin. I did the exact same thing personally.

So what is the argument for more coin? You want it because it is earned/deserved (debatable) or so you can do cool shit that cost more money that you currently do not have access to. I think the truth comes to light with the bolded part you highlighted.

[hayden_horn 11362]

2 hours ago, High Plains Drifter said:

Lets go with "higher than 48.5k".

 

well, let's go with "$48.5k in pecos is probably pretty good." it's needs to match the local COL, and austin is way out of line with the reality of living in austin. ideally your teachers would live in or close to the neighborhood in which they teach, but none can really afford that in austin.

[High Plains Drifter 11050]

3 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

well, let's go with "$48.5k in pecos is probably pretty good." it's needs to match the local COL, and austin is way out of line with the reality of living in austin. ideally your teachers would live in or close to the neighborhood in which they teach, but none can really afford that in austin.

 

48.5k anywhere in the US for an experienced teacher is too low, even in Pecos.

 

 

[hayden_horn 11362]

7 minutes ago, High Plains Drifter said:

 

48.5k anywhere in the US for an experienced teacher is too low, even in Pecos.

 

 

i would tend to agree with you, honestly. i was just trying to point out that COL variances should be considered.

[Pato del Muerto 52505]

9 minutes ago, High Plains Drifter said:

 

48.5k anywhere in the US for an experienced teacher is too low, even in Pecos.

 

 

Why?

[riloh05 107]

12 minutes ago, High Plains Drifter said:

 

48.5k anywhere in the US for an experienced teacher is too low, even in Pecos.

 

 

Why? What do you think a teacher should be paid on average?

[Larry T. Spider 1746]

1 hour ago, Gene Parmesan said:

You guys are losing me with statements like the bolded above.  It does sound like AISD teachers are getting the shit end of the stick though. 

Well, I was an Aisd teacher getting the shit end of the stick so I’m not sure what your problem with my statement is. 

Edited to add that if you make 47k, live in Austin, and run with other college educated people, you cant afford what they can. That is a factor to some people. My options were to get a masters degree and move into administration, move to a different city, or leave the field. I loved teaching and was good at it but screw making 47k forever.

Edited May 14, 2018 by Larry T. Spider

[High Plains Drifter 11050]

2 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Why?

 

Because:

1) Job sucks

2) Job takes specialized training, and annual or semi-annual CECs

3) Job is important

4) Probably 95+% of the general population could not do the job, even with the training. (50% quit in 5 years, according to the principal above. What other profession has that high of a drop out rate?)

 

 

[Gene Parmesan 4007]

4 minutes ago, Larry T. Spider said:

Well, I was an Aisd teacher getting the shit end of the stick so I’m not sure what your problem with my statement is. 

Being able to keep pace with your friends isn't argument for higher salary.  Kicking ass money isn't available to a lot of professions.  Even professions with college degrees.  Teaching is one of them.

[riloh05 107]

5 minutes ago, High Plains Drifter said:

 

Because:

1) Job sucks

2) Job takes specialized training, and annual or semi-annual CECs

3) Job is important

4) Probably 95+% of the general population could not do the job, even with the training. (50% quit in 5 years, according to the principal above. What other profession has that high of a drop out rate?)

 

 

you think 1-4 is unique to teaching?

[Larry T. Spider 1746]

1 minute ago, Gene Parmesan said:

Being able to keep pace with your friends isn't argument for higher salary.  Kicking ass money isn't available to a lot of professions.  Even professions with college degrees.  Teaching is one of them.

No, but its a reason not to be a teacher anymore....and a large part of the reason I'm not one now. My comment fits into the retention part of the conversation. 

[riloh05 107]

2 minutes ago, Larry T. Spider said:

No, but its a reason not to be a teacher anymore....and a large part of the reason I'm not one now. My comment fits into the retention part of the conversation. 

At what pay rate would they have been able to retain you as a teacher. For discussion lets say your salary was 50k...

[Eastwood 4394]

12 minutes ago, High Plains Drifter said:

 

4) Probably 95+% of the general population could not do the job, even with the training. (50% quit in 5 years, according to the principal above. What other profession has that high of a drop out rate?)

 

 

Food Service
Retail
Telemarketing
The military, maybe
Fire Departments
Basically any job where your main responsibility is to deal with people as part of your main job description.

[High Plains Drifter 11050]

16 minutes ago, riloh05 said:

you think 1-4 is unique to teaching?

In the sense of how low teachers are paid, yes.

Edited May 14, 2018 by High Plains Drifter
grammor

[riloh05 107]

Just now, High Plains Drifter said:

In the sense of how low teacher's are paid, yes.

Welp, its not and another poster just named a few.

[High Plains Drifter 11050]

6 minutes ago, Eastwood said:

Food Service
Retail
Telemarketing
The military, maybe
Fire Departments
Basically any job where your main responsibility is to deal with people as part of your main job description.

 

I would say your first three aren't really careers. Military is only a career for a small minority. I have no idea about firemen.

[High Plains Drifter 11050]

Just now, riloh05 said:

Welp, its not and another poster just named a few.

Welp, it is.

[High Plains Drifter 11050]

8 minutes ago, Eastwood said:

Food Service
Retail
Telemarketing
The military, maybe
Fire Departments
Basically any job where your main responsibility is to deal with people as part of your main job description.

 

Also, with the training, 95% of the population could do those jobs.

[Incredulity 11675]

Just now, High Plains Drifter said:

 

I would say your first three aren't really careers. Military is only a career for a small minority. I have no idea about firemen.

All kinds of careers in retail and food service.  Not the foot soldiers, but store managers, district managers, region managers, buyers, facilites.......

[High Plains Drifter 11050]

Just now, Incredulity said:

All kinds of careers in retail and food service.  Not the foot soldiers, but store managers, district managers, region managers, buyers, facilites.......

Again, 95 % of the population, with the training, could do those jobs. Unlike teaching.

 

 

 

[Gene Parmesan 4007]

My buddy is a fireman.  I don't think they have a high drop out rate and he makes more than a teacher for sure.  Not sure that profession applies.  Getting a fireman job was damn near impossible a few years ago. 

[Eastwood 4394]

5 minutes ago, High Plains Drifter said:

I would say your first three aren't really careers. Military is only a career for a small minority. I have no idea about firemen.

Any job becomes a career if you let it. You've probably been waited on before by someone who is called a "lifer" by the other wait staff there. Your issue is that you are confusing "job" with "career" and missing the crucial elements between them. One is goal setting. Does this person have a goal for the job that they have accepted. It's a complicated answer. If the answer is "I spent $80k on this English degree and now I don't know what to do," that teacher currently has a job, not a career. If the answer is "I want to mold young minds for the rest of my life and participate in any opportunity to advance in my chosen field," that teacher currently has a career. 

All the power in the world to those teachers who truly have a career. Meh to those who are just using the position as a holdover until something better comes along. I think teaching salaries should match the police and fireman scales. There is a huge pay jump at year 5 for a reason. Prove to the system that you are there to stay, even after you have encountered all of the lows that the profession brings. Then we'll talk money.

[Gene Parmesan 4007]

5 minutes ago, High Plains Drifter said:

Again, 95 % of the population, with the training, could do those jobs. Unlike teaching.

 

 

 

95% of the population can't do any job well. 

[Eastwood 4394]

4 minutes ago, Gene Parmesan said:

My buddy is a fireman.  I don't think they have a high drop out rate and he makes more than a teacher for sure.  Not sure that profession applies.  Getting a fireman job was damn near impossible a few years ago. 

Last I looked into it, the turnover is very high for those 5 years and under. A lot of people find out that being a fireman less fighting fires and more accident rescue. Work one or two wrecks where you had to pull the bloody body of a child out and a lot of people, justifiably, don't want to do it anymore. My dad worked one bad accident as a volunteer firefighter where they arrived at the tail end of a guy burning to death in a big rig. That image pops up in his sleep from time to time to this very day.

[hayden_horn 11362]

1 minute ago, Eastwood said:

Any job becomes a career if you let it. You've probably been waited on before by someone who is called a "lifer" by the other wait staff there. Your issue is that you are confusing "job" with "career" and missing the crucial elements between them. One is goal setting. Does this person have a goal for the job that they have accepted. It's a complicated answer. If the answer is "I spent $80k on this English degree and now I don't know what to do," that teacher currently has a job, not a career. If the answer is "I want to mold young minds for the rest of my life and participate in any opportunity to advance in my chosen field," that teacher currently has a career. 

All the power in the world to those teachers who truly have a career. Meh to those who are just using the position as a holdover until something better comes along. I think teaching salaries should match the police and fireman scales. There is a huge pay jump at year 5 for a reason. Prove to the system that you are there to stay, even after you have encountered all of the lows that the profession brings. Then we'll talk money.

matching it to the police or fire salaries would make a lot of sense to me, though police and fire unions would probably pitch a fit because they are putting their life on the line.

[RPM 26322]

4 hours ago, riloh05 said:

if the avg in Texas is $48.5k, what do you think the avg should be?

You need to deduct all the athletics salaries and average again. I guarantee that average will drop well below $48.5k. We can pay out the ass for athletics, but don't go spending money on frivolous stuff like education. They should base salaries on longevity/training/performance levels like the military. All make the same according to rank, plus certain hazard bonuses, housing, etc. An E-5 cook gets paid the same as an E-5 radar tech. Coaches definitely don't deserve to be paid more than science teachers.

[Larry T. Spider 1746]

I would argue that coaches make about a buck an hour on their stipend considering the time they put it. My football coaches in hs spent the night at school Friday nights after watching film until the early morning. We would come up for Saturday morning workout and film review. They would stay all afternoon getting film ready for the next weeks opponent. 

[Pato del Muerto 52505]

But a coach is teaching class as well as coaching. 

[riloh05 107]

1 minute ago, RPM said:

You need to deduct all the athletics salaries and average again. I guarantee that average will drop well below $48.5k. We can pay out the ass for athletics, but don't go spending money on frivolous stuff like education. They should base salaries on longevity/training/performance levels like the military. All make the same according to rank, plus certain hazard bonuses, housing, etc. An E-5 cook gets paid the same as an E-5 radar tech. Coaches definitely don't deserve to be paid more than science teachers.

they dont get paid more than science teachers. they get paid a stipend of 2k-5k'ish depending on how many sports they coach. so saying that coaches get higher salaries is false in Texas.

[High Plains Drifter 11050]

31 minutes ago, Eastwood said:

Any job becomes a career if you let it. You've probably been waited on before by someone who is called a "lifer" by the other wait staff there. Your issue is that you are confusing "job" with "career" and missing the crucial elements between them. One is goal setting. Does this person have a goal for the job that they have accepted. It's a complicated answer. If the answer is "I spent $80k on this English degree and now I don't know what to do," that teacher currently has a job, not a career. If the answer is "I want to mold young minds for the rest of my life and participate in any opportunity to advance in my chosen field," that teacher currently has a career. 

All the power in the world to those teachers who truly have a career. Meh to those who are just using the position as a holdover until something better comes along. I think teaching salaries should match the police and fireman scales. There is a huge pay jump at year 5 for a reason. Prove to the system that you are there to stay, even after you have encountered all of the lows that the profession brings. Then we'll talk money.

I pretty much agree with all this.

 

[High Plains Drifter 11050]

30 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

matching it to the police or fire salaries would make a lot of sense to me, though police and fire unions would probably pitch a fit because they are putting their life on the line.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States

[RPM 26322]

18 minutes ago, riloh05 said:

they dont get paid more than science teachers. they get paid a stipend of 2k-5k'ish depending on how many sports they coach. so saying that coaches get higher salaries is false in Texas.

I'm calling BS on that. 

It pays to be in Texas, home of the $98,668 high school football coach

Quote

Carter is the highest-paid high school football coach in Texas, with an annual salary of $155,156. That’s $30,000 more than the principal at Lake Travis and almost triple the average salary of the school’s teachers.

 

[hayden_horn 11362]

2 minutes ago, High Plains Drifter said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States

i'm not saying their reactions would be eminently REASONABLE, mind you.

[riloh05 107]

Just now, RPM said:

I'm calling BS on that. 

It pays to be in Texas, home of the $98,668 high school football coach

 

You can call it whatever you want... but finding a handfull of football coaches who are supported by the booster club wont give you the story of the thousands of other coaches in women and mens athletics. Also, some FB coaches are the AD which contributes to the salary. Sorr for you to be so wrong, it probably felt better for you not knowing the facts.

[Larry T. Spider 1746]

 

2 minutes ago, RPM said:

I'm calling BS on that. 

It pays to be in Texas, home of the $98,668 high school football coach

 

There is a big difference between the head coach and all of his assistants. 

[RPM 26322]

They shouldn't make triple what the science teacher makes. I DGAF what his W/L record is.

[riloh05 107]

4 minutes ago, RPM said:

They shouldn't make triple what the science teacher makes. I DGAF what his W/L record is.

you have to account for the AD salary/principal as well which i suspect is the case with this one off example...There are also campus coordinators for larger districts.

if a coach/sport is bringing in significant revenue he should absolutely make more than the science teacher who isnt generating revenue for the district. just like in the real world, revenue producers simply make more than those who are a cost center. pretty simple concept to understand.

Edited May 14, 2018 by riloh05

[RPM 26322]

3 minutes ago, riloh05 said:

You can call it whatever you want... but finding a handfull of football coaches who are supported by the booster club wont give you the story of the thousands of other coaches in women and mens athletics. Also, some FB coaches are the AD which contributes to the salary. Sorr for you to be so wrong, it probably felt better for you not knowing the facts.

 

Quote

There are no limits on what Texas high school football coaches can be paid, as long as school boards vote to approve contracts set by administrators.

 

[RPM 26322]

4 minutes ago, riloh05 said:

if a coach/sport is bringing in significant revenue he should absolutely make more than the science teacher who isnt generating revenue for the district.

If he wants to make more money then maybe he should go into sales.

[riloh05 107]

4 minutes ago, RPM said:

 

 

and most districts have a policy that the fb coach cant make more than the principal. i will go with my father being in the coaching business for 30 years and my personal experience instead of a one off coach that you want to hang your hat on.

[Larry T. Spider 1746]

Arguing about coaches salaries is pointless when the elephant of the Texas school finance system is in the room. Austin isd is cutting 30 million while sending 550 million in tax revenue elsewhere. The two buckets abortion of a system let’s taxpayers pay for football stadiums but not teachers. Coaches are easy to understand and argue about but they could all get paid nothing and it really wouldn’t change anything. Take some time to delve into Texas school finance and then the decisions districts make as far as spending will make a lot more sense.

[RPM 26322]

3 minutes ago, riloh05 said:

 i will go with my father being in the coaching business for 30 years and my personal experience instead of a one off coach that you want to hang your hat on.

It's not a one off, but you know that already. Here's a tip, read the article.

[riloh05 107]

2 minutes ago, RPM said:

If he wants to make more money then maybe he should go into sales.

the coach is in sales. if his product is shit = no revenue, short job life. if his product is good = revenue. this is only for football. if a science teacher is shit they could remain employed by the district for years. if a science teacher is great no one is buying a ticket or concessions, the band and drill team arent marching around with their parents in the stands to watch the science teacher excel. not my economics. 

[honolulu horn 6164]

2 hours ago, Larry T. Spider said:

The days off are nice but when I was teaching I had to work a side job most of those days to afford anything my friends were doing.

I'm sorry but I'm going to go back to this. Why would you expect to make the same as your friends who are working 50 weeks a year? I get that you said it in the context of retention -- the reality of making a low annual salary is irrefutably shitty -- but it's this sort of comparison argument that starts to lose the room.

[honolulu horn 6164]

4 minutes ago, Larry T. Spider said:

Arguing about coaches salaries is pointless when the elephant of the Texas school finance system is in the room. Austin isd is cutting 30 million while sending 550 million in tax revenue elsewhere. The two buckets abortion of a system let’s taxpayers pay for football stadiums but not teachers. Coaches are easy to understand and argue about but they could all get paid nothing and it really wouldn’t change anything. Take some time to delve into Texas school finance and then the decisions districts make as far as spending will make a lot more sense.

Agreed with all of this, as well as tying salaries to COL.

[riloh05 107]

1 minute ago, RPM said:

It's not a one off, but you know that already. Here's a tip, read the article.

i glanced over it, probably the same way you glanced over the stipend portion. again taking LT, Katy, Allen, et al does not tell the story for the State of Texas...those are high profile programs with more incoming revenue than some district's tax deliverables.

[Pato del Muerto 52505]

Are we counting teacher retirement pension as compensation?  I don’t have one of those.