Car buying now days

[phdhorn 6,224]

16 hours ago, slorch said:

 

Mofo came out with a deal at $X.  Inside my head, I'm just shrugging, "Why does it have to be so fucking hard?"  Junior has his new vehicle with no "Market bullshit" fees.  The sales rep was fine throughout the experience, save for this exchange.  They are just straight up gouging people and defending it as "market."  Yeah, you sonsabitches are falsely inflating the "market."

Simple - because you're probably the 1 in 10 who doesn't cave and go for it.  The other 9 will slop it up.  Car dealers have honed their business models enough to know that they can sell ice to an Eskimo (fuck you PC types out there) if the Eskimo really wants it.  This means that they bank on people getting emotionally attached to that vehicle - hence the test drive.  That's all it is... hoping (and usually succeeding that the customer will bond and want to take that one today).  It's tried and true.  This describes my wife very well, some day I'll go into that more.

Anyway, I have 2 never-ever rules when I shop.  I use them all the time and they work.

1) Never-ever expect to walk out with a car the same day you shop, no matter how much "final negotiating" you do over the phone, email, etc.  I fully do not expect to buy that car until I run them through the ringer.  The worst customer is one who has time - and no particular hurry.  One time it took me a month, and they finally went down $5K (which at that time was a lot more % discount than today).  

2) Never-ever-EVER  get attached to a single vehicle (for new cars at least).  Never.  That feeling running over you when you get excited about the car is also your doom many times.  I work from one angle - "a car gets me from point A to point B."  Period.  If I have a few models in mind, I'm at an advantage.

Of course many people want just a Tercel or F-150 or Maserati or whatever, that's fine.  But the more you narrow down your list, the less you have to bargain with.  Of course we all have a few of our own preferred deal breakers on a vehicle, but hopefully they're not so limited to any of that model you can go with something.

I do two things when I go to a dealer:  1) Let them know I have $, I'm not just "shopping".  I want a car (that's my bait - once they get that, they go all out to snag me).  Some guides discourage this, but I think it's the opposite.  While not telling them exactly what I have to spend on a car (that becomes their target), I tell them like, "oh I could afford that and more."  They know I'm serious and now I'm at the advantage.  And 2) Make it very clear that I could and might buy a car today, but also might not.  That's the "shopping" part.

But keep in mind that the overwhelming # of people go in, don't want to haggle, get attached to a car, and way overpay to get it home "that day" (a favorite phrase in dealerdom, right?).  So "it's so fucking hard" because it works amazingly well for them.  If it didn't, they wouldn't do it.

There is almost never, ever a "no-hassle" price.  Even if you think you nailed it on the phone or email.  They're always going to throw in a wrench or "surprise."  Always.  You will almost never walk out in one day if you hold to a price.  If they tell you you're being unrealistic, kindly thank them and say ok, well, I'm outta here (and BTW, always be polite - just because they're being greaseballs doesn't mean you have to).

Now if you have your eye on a particular used car, the dealer is at an immediate advantage, unless that used car is just a type, and not that car.  If that car is unique or rare in some way (particular style, color, etc.) you are probably going to lose the pay wars, but at least you can see if you can knock it down "for the effort of driving there and buying".  Like I said, that car = mo' $ out of your pocket.  But for the most part, you will win any dealer negotiation if you are patient and can get up and walk out - they hate that.

 

[Telegraph_it 3,353]

Ffffffff. I have to “buy” a car soon. The wife’s lease is up in 5 months or so. 
 

The dealer is already screwing around with the delta between residual and what Carvana and Give Me the VIN have offered. Residual is $45k. Used price is $58k or so. 
 

I’ll probably end up buying out the lease with my AMC earning (or winnings). 

[fattyflattie 4,636]

1 hour ago, LebongJames said:

The gave me $32k for our 2016 4Runner with 80k miles. We paid $39k in December of 2015.

Curious who is buying all these used cars at such a premium?  Friend got offered 2.5k more than he paid for his ‘18 Tacoma with 106k on it.  Then they told him they’d sell him a brand new one for like 6k more than they were offering him. Who in the 40k range can’t afford the extra 6k to get a 3 year newer, 100k less miles.  He also traded his 350 and 450 in at the same time.  The 350 was an ‘11 with 285k miles, ordered new in ‘11 for 54k.  They gave him 27k for it.  And these trucks are worked (ranch and construction business)  He said he would have paid about 12.5k for the 350 if he was buying for the company (in that condition with miles).   

[tbone_ 14,020]

Simple - because you're probably the 1 in 10 who doesn't cave and go for it.  The other 9 will slop it up.  Car dealers have honed their business models enough to know that they can sell ice to an Eskimo (fuck you PC types out there) if the Eskimo really wants it.  This means that they bank on people getting emotionally attached to that vehicle - hence the test drive.  That's all it is... hoping (and usually succeeding that the customer will bond and want to take that one today).  It's tried and true.  This describes my wife very well, some day I'll go into that more.

Anyway, I have 2 never-ever rules when I shop.  I use them all the time and they work.

1) Never-ever expect to walk out with a car the same day you shop, no matter how much "final negotiating" you do over the phone, email, etc.  I fully do not expect to buy that car until I run them through the ringer.  The worst customer is one who has time - and no particular hurry.  One time it took me a month, and they finally went down $5K (which at that time was a lot more % discount than today).  

2) Never-ever-EVER  get attached to a single vehicle (for new cars at least).  Never.  That feeling running over you when you get excited about the car is also your doom many times.  I work from one angle - "a car gets me from point A to point B."  Period.  If I have a few models in mind, I'm at an advantage.

Of course many people want just a Tercel or F-150 or Maserati or whatever, that's fine.  But the more you narrow down your list, the less you have to bargain with.  Of course we all have a few of our own preferred deal breakers on a vehicle, but hopefully they're not so limited to any of that model you can go with something.

I do two things when I go to a dealer:  1) Let them know I have $, I'm not just "shopping".  I want a car (that's my bait - once they get that, they go all out to snag me).  Some guides discourage this, but I think it's the opposite.  While not telling them exactly what I have to spend on a car (that becomes their target), I tell them like, "oh I could afford that and more."  They know I'm serious and now I'm at the advantage.  And 2) Make it very clear that I could and might buy a car today, but also might not.  That's the "shopping" part.

But keep in mind that the overwhelming # of people go in, don't want to haggle, get attached to a car, and way overpay to get it home "that day" (a favorite phrase in dealerdom, right?).  So "it's so fucking hard" because it works amazingly well for them.  If it didn't, they wouldn't do it.

There is almost never, ever a "no-hassle" price.  Even if you think you nailed it on the phone or email.  They're always going to throw in a wrench or "surprise."  Always.  You will almost never walk out in one day if you hold to a price.  If they tell you you're being unrealistic, kindly thank them and say ok, well, I'm outta here (and BTW, always be polite - just because they're being greaseballs doesn't mean you have to).

Now if you have your eye on a particular used car, the dealer is at an immediate advantage, unless that used car is just a type, and not that car.  If that car is unique or rare in some way (particular style, color, etc.) you are probably going to lose the pay wars, but at least you can see if you can knock it down "for the effort of driving there and buying".  Like I said, that car = mo' $ out of your pocket.  But for the most part, you will win any dealer negotiation if you are patient and can get up and walk out - they hate that.

 

This. Always walk out and get them trying to get you to come back in. That’s your only leverage.

Which may or may not matter in today’s supply constrained world.

[CooterBrown 17,875]

Curious who is buying all these used cars at such a premium?  Friend got offered 2.5k more than he paid for his ‘18 Tacoma with 106k on it.  Then they told him they’d sell him a brand new one for like 6k more than they were offering him. Who in the 40k range can’t afford the extra 6k to get a 3 year newer, 100k less miles.  He also traded his 350 and 450 in at the same time.  The 350 was an ‘11 with 285k miles, ordered new in ‘11 for 54k.  They gave him 27k for it.  And these trucks are worked (ranch and construction business)  He said he would have paid about 12.5k for the 350 if he was buying for the company (in that condition with miles).   

This what I don’t get. I was given just a couple thousand less for my ‘20 Tacoma than an in-stock new ‘22 was going for. Carvana was selling it for the same price. Unless the dealerships are waiting until customers are on the lot to add the market markup, it doesn’t make any sense.

[fattyflattie 4,636]

9 minutes ago, CooterBrown said:

This what I don’t get. I was given just a couple thousand less for my ‘20 Tacoma than an in-stock new ‘22 was going for. Carvana was selling it for the same price. Unless the dealerships are waiting until customers are on the lot to add the market markup, it doesn’t make any sense.

I think his numbers were 33.5k new in ‘18, they offered him 36k, and told him they had a new one on lot for 41k.  +/-1k in any direction. Only #’s I don’t know is what the 450 fetched. But it was heavily done up so figure he got some good money on that one.  And I’m serious about these things getting used hard. They look good but definitely used as trucks (Yota was more of long distance daily runnner/fuel rig) 

[mdmost 42,775]

We got our new car for the exact amount agreed upon Wednesday evening. Sewell manager said their dealerships do not go over MSRP or tack on market conditions as they think that's a short term opportunity that's going to cost those dealerships in the long run. Everything was nice. Did all the credit applications online and just signed the paperwork while they added on our options. Very happy to be done with all this. My wife is going back to the office in mid-January so we were looking at a few weeks up to 3 months of carpooling to get her to the DART train or me taking her in every day which I was not wanting to do. Don't have to worry about that now. 

I know Subaru gets a granola lesbian rep around here but we actually want to use this car for doing more driving vacations and being more in the outdoors. We're already trying to decide our Spring Break driving destination. We may do Palo Duro Canyon. We went to Big Bend back in 2020 which was the genesis of wanting a 3rd row SUV. We rented a Chevy Traverse for that trip and it got us interested in looking at SUVs. We may take a summer trip to Colorado if there's time. It's interesting driving this car and the learning curve on it because I've always only drove sedans or a small pickup. So being up higher is a new sensation to being a lot lower to the ground. The kids really enjoy how roomy it is. My youngest got in the 3rd row on the way home from the dealership and was enjoying that. We need to get the dog into the car and take her out for a hike but the weather's going to be shitty this weekend. 

[Updawg 2,260]

Congrats. Those ascent’s are nice. Thought about getting one but went with a 4Runner instead. Telluride looks nice as well but I wonder how well the will hold up long term

[DaysOff 7,821]

Holy shit. I was too embarrassed to post this confession, but this thread inspired me to make the move anyway.

Paid 39k for my 2018 4runner and North Park Subaru in San Antonio gave me 40k for it after 3 years and 37,000 miles. Rolled into a 2022 Ascent Limited. Much more comfortable ride with bells and whistles. Whole family is going lesbian. Bought my wife a Forrester in September, the boy in Colorado is waiting for an outback and the daughter in Austin has an outback.

Good bye pussy wagon.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8,799]

Just did the whole car shopping thing. Looked at Tahoes and Yukons but they are all out extremely far but they are willing to sell at MSRP.  Never heard back from the Genesis dealer on GV80. Went with the new MDX. Paid MSRP minus a $750 rebate for owning a BMW. The dealer did tint and ceramic coat it for $1000. The gave me $32k for our 2016 4Runner with 80k miles. We paid $39k in December of 2015.

Tahoes and Yukons are basically the same everything but 10-15 grand less and without a few things. Otherwise it’s the same.


I love my 21 Tahoe. But I didn’t order it, found it on carsoup at a dealership 3 hrs from me and it was still in transit. Basically looked at the window sticker online, saw it had the moon/sun roof and 2nd row seat monitors and was white…so I told them I’ll take it if wasn’t spoken for

[mdleast 8,255]

Good bye pussy wagon.

[Axle Hongsnort 208]

I’m looking at Lexus GX460s, 2015-17. Carvana has a few “good” pricing deals vs other traditional dealerships. Pricing aside, anyone have good or bad experience with Carvana? I saw cargurus mentioned upthread but they appear to be an aggregator like cars.com and even list vroom and carvana cars.

[TwiceHorn 31,184]

On 12/28/2021 at 12:57 PM, Chewbacca said:

Even the expensive Toyotas hold their value extremely well.  Just look at used Landcruiser prices.

What I was kind of driving at is that the more luxury/performance models don't hold value quite as well as the more utilitarian vehicles.  Although LC are expensive, they are on the more utilitarian end of things.

But, yeah, across the board, they hold value pretty well.  And have a definite audience.

Edited January 15, 2022 by TwiceHorn

[Chewbacca 7,727]

What I was kind of driving at is that the more luxury/performance models don't hold value quite as well as the more utilitarian vehicles.  Although LC are expensive, they are on the more utilitarian end of things.
But, yeah, across the board, they hold value pretty well.  And have a definite audience.

LCs are luxurious and utilitarian. That's why i love them.

[pacman 7,309]

Anybody successfully gotten the car dealership, working with one of the covert dealerships, to remove these "protection packages" from the cost or purchase?

Walk away seems to be my lone strat. They are dug in.

 

[Armybrat 40,678]

I keep getting emails from the Honda dealership offering to buy my 2019 Civic Turbo Coupe with 7,000 miles on the clock for $3,000 more than I paid them for it. Drove by there recently and they had almost no new inventory out on the lot, just a few used vehicles.
Am almost afraid to take it in for servicing, for fear they might refuse to give it back.

 

[El Tri 398]

12 hours ago, pacman said:

Anybody successfully gotten the car dealership, working with one of the covert dealerships, to remove these "protection packages" from the cost or purchase?

Walk away seems to be my lone strat. They are dug in.

 

had the same issue when buying my GMC sierra in dec 2020. covert wouldn't budge. ended up buying in cavender GMC in san antonio who sold it with none of that shit. Once i had that quote the covert sales guy offered to match but i told him to go fuck himself. ended up driving to san antonio and having dinner at mi tierra afterwards.

i fucking hate playing games

[NeverMarryAStripper 21,780]

On 1/15/2022 at 10:57 AM, Axle Hongsnort said:

I’m looking at Lexus GX460s, 2015-17. Carvana has a few “good” pricing deals vs other traditional dealerships. Pricing aside, anyone have good or bad experience with Carvana? I saw cargurus mentioned upthread but they appear to be an aggregator like cars.com and even list vroom and carvana cars.

I bought my last car from Carvana.  I found exactly what I was looking for at a price that I considered fair.  The transaction went very smoothly.  I bought my son a jeep from them last August after several distasteful attempts at buying one from local dealerships.  It's been almost six months now and I still haven't received the registration on the jeep.  I have been round and round with their "customer service" and made no progress.  It's beginning to look like I'm going to have to initiate legal action to get anywhere with them.

Edited January 27, 2022 by NeverMarryAStripper

[El Tri 398]

p.s. i called pretty much every dealership in austin, houston, dallas, san antonio and in between. only found cavender in SA and another in Dallas who didn't tack on these bullshit options.

[mdmost 42,775]

6 minutes ago, El Tri said:

p.s. i called pretty much every dealership in austin, houston, dallas, san antonio and in between. only found cavender in SA and another in Dallas who didn't tack on these bullshit options.

Check out the Sewell dealerships in Dallas. Not sure each one doesn't install dealer options but the Subaru dealership didn't. 

[Da Fino 2,719]

On 12/31/2021 at 3:28 PM, DaysOff said:

Holy shit. I was too embarrassed to post this confession, but this thread inspired me to make the move anyway.

Paid 39k for my 2018 4runner and North Park Subaru in San Antonio gave me 40k for it after 3 years and 37,000 miles. Rolled into a 2022 Ascent Limited. Much more comfortable ride with bells and whistles. Whole family is going lesbian. Bought my wife a Forrester in September, the boy in Colorado is waiting for an outback and the daughter in Austin has an outback.

Good bye pussy wagon.
 

Similar story here. Sterling McCall in Houston called to ask if they could buy back our 4runner for 3k more than I paid for it. 2018 with 25k miles. I had totaled it three days prior. Hated that car. Tavelers insurance guys were great about getting me a good payout. 

[Updawg 2,260]

I bought my last car from Carvana.  I found exactly what I was looking for at a price that I considered fair.  The transaction went very smoothly.  I bought my son a jeep from them last August after several distasteful attempts at buying one from local dealerships.  It's been almost six months now and I still haven't received the registration on the jeep.  I have been round and round with their "customer service" and made no progress.  It's beginning to look like I'm going to have to initiate legal action to get anywhere with them.

Apparently this is becoming a big issue with them. Some states have banned them for it

https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2021/11/15/online-car-seller-carvana-hit-texas-state-violations-customers-paperwork-troubles/

[mapplewhite132 309]

18 hours ago, pacman said:

Anybody successfully gotten the car dealership, working with one of the covert dealerships, to remove these "protection packages" from the cost or purchase?

Walk away seems to be my lone strat. They are dug in.

 

Just bought a new truck at leif johnson and had them remove the $1800 tint/lojack/bedliner charge. I test drove the truck and none of that stuff had been installed yet, so I told my sales guy that I was ready to make a deal but I wasn't willing to pay a penny for that crap. They took it off the bill...

[mdmost 42,775]

Same thing I did when I got my Accord. Told them we agreed to a price and that wasn’t included so either I wasn’t paying it or I was moving on. They ate the cost. 

[Godzillatron 292]

Check out the Sewell dealerships in Dallas. Not sure each one doesn't install dealer options but the Subaru dealership didn't. 

Sewell also owns the Jaguar and Land Rover dealers in N Austin. If you are in the market for something they sell you should go there. Friend's husband works there, they are top notch.

[luke duke 6,379]

p.s. i called pretty much every dealership in austin, houston, dallas, san antonio and in between. only found cavender in SA and another in Dallas who didn't tack on these bullshit options.

Which one in Dallas?

[Rimbo 25,752]

On 1/27/2022 at 2:52 PM, mdmost said:

Same thing I did when I got my Accord. Told them we agreed to a price and that wasn’t included so either I wasn’t paying it or I was moving on. They ate the cost. 

I make 'em remove it.

[TwiceHorn 31,184]

[Grimas 658]

Got lucky today(well, last night with the wife as well but no pics)... Have been trying to buy my retired mom an old car just to get to the grocery, bank and pharmacy today after she wrecked her previous car last year (ice storm). Had been looking for something in the 5k range but everything I saw was crap. Saw a posting on Next door for someone offering a 2002 Chevy Traverse for 4500 and 200k miles. KBB had it as $2k max for private sale.

Took a look at it today and it had been owned by the same person since new and had all the service records. (Son was selling it for parents,  now deceased). Car was clean other than a cracked windshield - I jacked it up and no leaks or issues with any of the busings, bearings or joints that I could see (I've bought quite a few cars in the past and know what to look for)... He just wanted it out of his driveway and I walked out the door for 2500$ for it and both sides were happy (guy even gave me 5# of venison and cheddar sausage fdom his freezer to try)...

Got lucky as he lived out in the country and no one had looked at the truck as he was asking too much and no one had come to look at it and I was happy as I was willing to spend 3500 for it and I don't have to shuttle my mother around to get groceries any more (at least until she wrecks this one...) As they say in sales, both sides were happy as it was a win-win solution for both of us...

Edited February 6, 2022 by Grimas

[Patricio Swayze 17,058]

Similar story here. Sterling McCall in Houston called to ask if they could buy back our 4runner for 3k more than I paid for it. 2018 with 25k miles. I had totaled it three days prior. Hated that car. Tavelers insurance guys were great about getting me a good payout. 

Hated 4runner (or Tacoma for that matter), does not compute. I hate having a reliable, bullet proof vehicle.

[El Tri 398]

On 2/5/2022 at 7:53 PM, Patricio Swayze said:

Hated 4runner (or Tacoma for that matter), does not compute. I hate having a reliable, bullet proof vehicle.

they're very reliable, but they drive like complete shit. some people prefer a better and more comfortable ride

[El Tri 398]

On 1/30/2022 at 8:24 PM, luke duke said:

Which one in Dallas?

sorry bud, it's been 14 months and i don't remember

[fattyflattie 4,636]

On 2/5/2022 at 7:53 PM, Patricio Swayze said:

Hated 4runner (or Tacoma for that matter), does not compute. I hate having a reliable, bullet proof vehicle.

It computes for many. Camrys are reliable, bullet proof vehicles, too.  

[Nivek 16,808]

Simple - because you're probably the 1 in 10 who doesn't cave and go for it.  The other 9 will slop it up.  Car dealers have honed their business models enough to know that they can sell ice to an Eskimo (fuck you PC types out there) if the Eskimo really wants it.  This means that they bank on people getting emotionally attached to that vehicle - hence the test drive.  That's all it is... hoping (and usually succeeding that the customer will bond and want to take that one today).  It's tried and true.  This describes my wife very well, some day I'll go into that more.

Anyway, I have 2 never-ever rules when I shop.  I use them all the time and they work.

1) Never-ever expect to walk out with a car the same day you shop, no matter how much "final negotiating" you do over the phone, email, etc.  I fully do not expect to buy that car until I run them through the ringer.  The worst customer is one who has time - and no particular hurry.  One time it took me a month, and they finally went down $5K (which at that time was a lot more % discount than today).  

2) Never-ever-EVER  get attached to a single vehicle (for new cars at least).  Never.  That feeling running over you when you get excited about the car is also your doom many times.  I work from one angle - "a car gets me from point A to point B."  Period.  If I have a few models in mind, I'm at an advantage.

Of course many people want just a Tercel or F-150 or Maserati or whatever, that's fine.  But the more you narrow down your list, the less you have to bargain with.  Of course we all have a few of our own preferred deal breakers on a vehicle, but hopefully they're not so limited to any of that model you can go with something.

I do two things when I go to a dealer:  1) Let them know I have $, I'm not just "shopping".  I want a car (that's my bait - once they get that, they go all out to snag me).  Some guides discourage this, but I think it's the opposite.  While not telling them exactly what I have to spend on a car (that becomes their target), I tell them like, "oh I could afford that and more."  They know I'm serious and now I'm at the advantage.  And 2) Make it very clear that I could and might buy a car today, but also might not.  That's the "shopping" part.

But keep in mind that the overwhelming # of people go in, don't want to haggle, get attached to a car, and way overpay to get it home "that day" (a favorite phrase in dealerdom, right?).  So "it's so fucking hard" because it works amazingly well for them.  If it didn't, they wouldn't do it.

There is almost never, ever a "no-hassle" price.  Even if you think you nailed it on the phone or email.  They're always going to throw in a wrench or "surprise."  Always.  You will almost never walk out in one day if you hold to a price.  If they tell you you're being unrealistic, kindly thank them and say ok, well, I'm outta here (and BTW, always be polite - just because they're being greaseballs doesn't mean you have to).

Now if you have your eye on a particular used car, the dealer is at an immediate advantage, unless that used car is just a type, and not that car.  If that car is unique or rare in some way (particular style, color, etc.) you are probably going to lose the pay wars, but at least you can see if you can knock it down "for the effort of driving there and buying".  Like I said, that car = mo' $ out of your pocket.  But for the most part, you will win any dealer negotiation if you are patient and can get up and walk out - they hate that.

 

This advice seems like it works but it has never really worked for me. I did walk away from a car/dealer before because i apparently pissed them off by negotiating and talking about the price their competitor has for the same model. They offered me a shittier deal and I laughed at them and walked out. They never bothered to try to reach out to me.

I found I just do better by talking to people online. I say what i want, ask if their inventory is up to date. Many ignore me or want to play games. I’ll keep checking in later to see if they are still interested in a sale. I had some react badly when I said I was paying cash and not interested in financing, and they start upping the price. Some guys tried to get me to finance the car then pay it off after a month or two. I just kept searching and biding my time. I did ultimately get most of what I wanted for the price, but I missed out on the color. Cause apparently anything not gray/silver (mine), white, or black is too exotic for most people. Last 3 times I have done this have been a better experience for me. Process was quick, stress level low.

Also spending time searching and driving the cars separate from buying seems to work for me as well. So I tend to settle on the car before I open up.

At the same time I was looking for one last spring I found that the Italian suvs (alfa) were not overcharging and seemed well stocked.

But of course my mileage may have varied. Its a pain in the ass.

[6th Street 6,340]

The old days of playing games and trying to bargain your way into a good deal are over. The market is super efficient given it takes 30 seconds on your phone to pull up the market value and comps. And if a favorable deal does appear, you better be prepared to pull the trigger ASAP otherwise someone else will. I tried that walking out shit at Porsche Milwaukee and they could not have given two shits. Ended up coming back an hour later. 
 

 

[TurkeyChew 383]

2 hours ago, 6th Street said:

The old days of playing games and trying to bargain your way into a good deal are over. The market is super efficient given it takes 30 seconds on your phone to pull up the market value and comps. And if a favorable deal does appear, you better be prepared to pull the trigger ASAP otherwise someone else will. I tried that walking out shit at Porsche Milwaukee and they could not have given two shits. Ended up coming back an hour later. 
 

 

I "walked out" buying a luxury car, gently used, one year old low miles, etc.

They could not only not care, but we get half a block away and my wife is laying in on me that if someone else buys it I'm in the dog house.

So I turn around and walk back in tail between leg "uh, I changed my mind, let's do it".

[MNLonghornFUKM 8,799]

The old days of playing games and trying to bargain your way into a good deal are over. The market is super efficient given it takes 30 seconds on your phone to pull up the market value and comps. And if a favorable deal does appear, you better be prepared to pull the trigger ASAP otherwise someone else will. I tried that walking out shit at Porsche Milwaukee and they could not have given two shits. Ended up coming back an hour later. 
 
 

Bet that was a self deflating walk of shame lol

[6th Street 6,340]

10 hours ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

Bet that was a self deflating walk of shame lol

Literally. I took the Amtrak in from Chicago and then uber to the dealership. After the deal went bad, I literally walked off, then walked back in an hour later after loafing around in the grocery store down the street.

[midtown 3,341]

The Manheim used car price index flattered just recently. Hopefully a sign things are going to start cooling off a little

[torre 1,284]

WSJ article worth the read.  (excerpts)

 

Ford F -0.95% Motor Co. and General Motors Co. GM -2.46% are clamping down on dealerships that are trying to charge more than the sticker price, a tactic that has proliferated amid the car shortage.

Ford F -0.95% Chief Executive Jim Farley said Thursday that dealers who engage in this practice will face consequences, including losing supplies of future models. Auto makers set a manufacturer’s suggested retail price, or MSRP, when they ship cars to dealerships. Dealers aren’t required to adhere to them, but under business norms that has been the general practice and expectation.

Ford has determined that about 10% of the roughly 3,000 dealerships in its U.S. network are charging above the sticker price, Mr. Farley said. If they don’t stop, Ford plans to take punitive action by shipping them fewer sought-after models, he added.

In a letter to its dealers last month, GM also said it could take action against “a small minority of bad actors” who were selling or leasing vehicles at rates “far in excess” of sticker prices set by the auto company. It said GM could decide to withhold some vehicle shipments to those dealerships.

Traditional car companies operate through networks of franchise dealerships, which are independent businesses that purchase cars from the factory. While the auto maker controls supply and offers promotional programs, dealers generally have autonomy over the final transaction with the customer.

Many dealers are tacking on what are known as market adjustments, which inform the buyer that the dealership is raising the price of the vehicle above the window sticker figure. In some cases, they are doing this by requiring that buyers accept added fees and warranty protection as part of the asking price.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/ford-gm-warn-dealers-charge-above-sticker-price-and-face-repercussions-11644323580

[midtown 3,341]

^

I just came to post that.  Wonder if anyone could use that as a bargaining chip?

I have two questions about the wording.   Is that customer orders?   Or cars that the dealer bought?   Because the article does state dealerships are franchises that "generally have autonomy over the final transaction with the customer."

Edit.  I just sent that article to a dealer in Missouri that has a 4k market adjustment on a Mach 1.  She said "we are selling above MSRPP".  I wonder if that talk from Ford is just PR

Also I found out why my Mach 1 order is approaching 5 months without any movement.     Ford does not produce performance Mustangs because the tires are too soft to be tested in the Michigan winter so production on Mach 1s and Shelbys are halted between October and April.   

Edited February 9, 2022 by midtown

[Chewbacca 7,727]

4 hours ago, torre said:

WSJ article worth the read.  (excerpts)

 

Ford F -0.95% Motor Co. and General Motors Co. GM -2.46% are clamping down on dealerships that are trying to charge more than the sticker price, a tactic that has proliferated amid the car shortage.

Ford F -0.95% Chief Executive Jim Farley said Thursday that dealers who engage in this practice will face consequences, including losing supplies of future models. Auto makers set a manufacturer’s suggested retail price, or MSRP, when they ship cars to dealerships. Dealers aren’t required to adhere to them, but under business norms that has been the general practice and expectation.

Ford has determined that about 10% of the roughly 3,000 dealerships in its U.S. network are charging above the sticker price, Mr. Farley said. If they don’t stop, Ford plans to take punitive action by shipping them fewer sought-after models, he added.

In a letter to its dealers last month, GM also said it could take action against “a small minority of bad actors” who were selling or leasing vehicles at rates “far in excess” of sticker prices set by the auto company. It said GM could decide to withhold some vehicle shipments to those dealerships.

Traditional car companies operate through networks of franchise dealerships, which are independent businesses that purchase cars from the factory. While the auto maker controls supply and offers promotional programs, dealers generally have autonomy over the final transaction with the customer.

Many dealers are tacking on what are known as market adjustments, which inform the buyer that the dealership is raising the price of the vehicle above the window sticker figure. In some cases, they are doing this by requiring that buyers accept added fees and warranty protection as part of the asking price.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/ford-gm-warn-dealers-charge-above-sticker-price-and-face-repercussions-11644323580

Only 10% are charging above MSRP?  Do the other 90% not have any Broncos on the floor?

[fuggled 576]

This advice seems like it works but it has never really worked for me. I did walk away from a car/dealer before because i apparently pissed them off by negotiating and talking about the price their competitor has for the same model. They offered me a shittier deal and I laughed at them and walked out. They never bothered to try to reach out to me.

I found I just do better by talking to people online. I say what i want, ask if their inventory is up to date. Many ignore me or want to play games. I’ll keep checking in later to see if they are still interested in a sale. I had some react badly when I said I was paying cash and not interested in financing, and they start upping the price. Some guys tried to get me to finance the car then pay it off after a month or two. I just kept searching and biding my time. I did ultimately get most of what I wanted for the price, but I missed out on the color. Cause apparently anything not gray/silver (mine), white, or black is too exotic for most people. Last 3 times I have done this have been a better experience for me. Process was quick, stress level low.

Also spending time searching and driving the cars separate from buying seems to work for me as well. So I tend to settle on the car before I open up.

At the same time I was looking for one last spring I found that the Italian suvs (alfa) were not overcharging and seemed well stocked.

But of course my mileage may have varied. Its a pain in the ass.

Just curious, why the aversion to financing? I was prepared to pay cash on my last car a couple years ago but told the dealer "I'm open to financing with you if you get me a good price on the car." I did end up financing with them and just paid the loan off in full before any interest hit. It just seems useful to keep that in your back pocket as something you can throw at the dealer to sweeten the offer.

[midtown 3,341]

Only 10% are charging above MSRP?  Do the other 90% not have any Broncos on the floor?

Broncos. Raptors. Shelbys. Mach 1s all well above Msrp. 10% my ass.

[Sandman 3,402]

4 hours ago, midtown said:

On 2/9/2022 at 12:48 PM, Chewbacca said:

Only 10% are charging above MSRP?  Do the other 90% not have any Broncos on the floor?

Broncos. Raptors. Shelbys. Mach 1s all well above Msrp. 10% my ass.

In my experience calling multiple dealers the last few weeks, that number is 100%. Lowest ADM I found on a Bronco was $2500, highest was 20k. Bronco sport is +1500, but they're putting on an interior and exterior protectant, so it's totally worth it! Had a couple of places tell me I wouldn't get a Bronco for two years, regardless of mark-up. I also saw a dealership in Arkansas that has +5k on fucking Hyundai Elantras. WTF?

[Nivek 16,808]

20 hours ago, fuggled said:

On 2/7/2022 at 12:08 PM, Nivek said:

This advice seems like it works but it has never really worked for me. I did walk away from a car/dealer before because i apparently pissed them off by negotiating and talking about the price their competitor has for the same model. They offered me a shittier deal and I laughed at them and walked out. They never bothered to try to reach out to me.

I found I just do better by talking to people online. I say what i want, ask if their inventory is up to date. Many ignore me or want to play games. I’ll keep checking in later to see if they are still interested in a sale. I had some react badly when I said I was paying cash and not interested in financing, and they start upping the price. Some guys tried to get me to finance the car then pay it off after a month or two. I just kept searching and biding my time. I did ultimately get most of what I wanted for the price, but I missed out on the color. Cause apparently anything not gray/silver (mine), white, or black is too exotic for most people. Last 3 times I have done this have been a better experience for me. Process was quick, stress level low.

Also spending time searching and driving the cars separate from buying seems to work for me as well. So I tend to settle on the car before I open up.

At the same time I was looking for one last spring I found that the Italian suvs (alfa) were not overcharging and seemed well stocked.

But of course my mileage may have varied. Its a pain in the ass.

Just curious, why the aversion to financing? I was prepared to pay cash on my last car a couple years ago but told the dealer "I'm open to financing with you if you get me a good price on the car." I did end up financing with them and just paid the loan off in full before any interest hit. It just seems useful to keep that in your back pocket as something you can throw at the dealer to sweeten the offer.

I don't want the hassle, I have too much chaos going on in my life and too much responsibility to try to add more.   Plus then I have to read lawyerese to see if they are going to try and fuck me on the back end.   If I didn't have little kids and was more routine oriented, then I would consider it.  But now, I am exactly the type of person some companies want to sign up for "1 week free" of hulu/Paramount+" only to forget to cancel a month or two later.    

[fattyflattie 4,636]

2 hours ago, Nivek said:

I don't want the hassle, I have too much chaos going on in my life and too much responsibility to try to add more.   Plus then I have to read lawyerese to see if they are going to try and fuck me on the back end.   If I didn't have little kids and was more routine oriented, then I would consider it.  But now, I am exactly the type of person some companies want to sign up for "1 week free" of hulu/Paramount+" only to forget to cancel a month or two later.    

I hear you, but they offer some pretty big discounts (or used to) only available with their financing.  They say you have to keep in 3 months or some such bullshit but I can attest you can mail them a check the first month.  Ford was giving something like $4500 rebate back in ‘18/‘19 if you used their finance.   Now everything is all fucked up so doubt (I don’t know) they are doing much of any rebates.  

[Nivek 16,808]

1 hour ago, fattyflattie said:

I hear you, but they offer some pretty big discounts (or used to) only available with their financing.  They say you have to keep in 3 months or some such bullshit but I can attest you can mail them a check the first month.  Ford was giving something like $4500 rebate back in ‘18/‘19 if you used their finance.   Now everything is all fucked up so doubt (I don’t know) they are doing much of any rebates.  

OK that is a pretty big discount, and I am suspicious as to how a firm makes money doing that.  The only way it makes sense to me is that they putting that price into the auto before offering financing.   I believe they offered my something like $1000 off to finance through Ford about 10 years ago.  For my last purchase (last May) I didn't even hear an offer and the guy didn't even bother to try to sell me on one so I assume it wasn't much.   Ah well my Ford has about had it, but I am not going to move on just yet with this market, it works and has been reliable enough.  

[fattyflattie 4,636]

9 minutes ago, Nivek said:

OK that is a pretty big discount, and I am suspicious as to how a firm makes money doing that.  The only way it makes sense to me is that they putting that price into the auto before offering financing.   I believe they offered my something like $1000 off to finance through Ford about 10 years ago. 

Was for sure baked in, without doubt. I’m sure it changes, it just stuck with me because I was blowing them off until they threw the #’s out. Oh, ok.  Month later send a check and be done with it. 

Eta: I’d have to dig up paperwork but I think it was 4.5% or so at the time. 

Edited February 14, 2022 by fattyflattie
Interest rates yo

[midtown 3,341]

I just got off the phone with Leif Johnson aka Riata Ford up in the Austin area.   They want $131,000 for a Shelby with a sticker of $106,000.    I just laughed.  I would haven bit on MSRP but I ain't paying $30k over.  Sure is a beautiful car though.

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d13b4d4d-c6fc-42b6-b699-6d2e941cfa95/