Explain this

[Helobious 9755]

@fattyflattie  your ideal prison conditions seem pretty counterintuitive to me. I don’t think being locked in a sweltering building with no entertainment at all with a bunch violent men is a good recipe for a well-adjusted individual upon release. It would also make it a wildly more dangerous place for the prisoners & guards.
 

Talk to an ex con sometime and ask him about his TV. They REALLY cherish that shit. TVs are purchased off commissary so they’re a money maker for the prison. They also offer windows into the outside world that I would argue are very healthy for prisoners, more so than most books even. They allow them to keep up with and actually see pop culture, current events, news, and technology. All incredibly vital things to anyone that will be a part of society. 

[fattyflattie 4640]

4 minutes ago, Helobious said:

@fattyflattie  your ideal prison conditions seem pretty counterintuitive to me. I don’t think being locked in a sweltering building with no entertainment at all with a bunch violent men is a good recipe for a well-adjusted individual upon release. It would also make it a wildly more dangerous place for the prisoners & guards.
 

Talk to an ex con sometime and ask him about his TV. They REALLY cherish that shit. TVs are purchased off commissary so they’re a money maker for the prison. They also offer windows into the outside world that I would argue are very healthy for prisoners, more so than most books even. They allow them to keep up with and actually see pop culture, current events, news, and technology. All incredibly vital things to anyone that will be a part of society. 

Fair enough. 

[Satoshi 129]

10 hours ago, Helobious said:

@fattyflattie  your ideal prison conditions seem pretty counterintuitive to me. I don’t think being locked in a sweltering building with no entertainment at all with a bunch violent men is a good recipe for a well-adjusted individual upon release. It would also make it a wildly more dangerous place for the prisoners & guards.
 

Talk to an ex con sometime and ask him about his TV. They REALLY cherish that shit. TVs are purchased off commissary so they’re a money maker for the prison. They also offer windows into the outside world that I would argue are very healthy for prisoners, more so than most books even. They allow them to keep up with and actually see pop culture, current events, news, and technology. All incredibly vital things to anyone that will be a part of society. 

A member of my wife’s family did a 3 year stretch a while back in federal prison in Fort Worth. They didn’t have their own TVs but you sure as shit didn’t touch the main TV in their joint living space. The top 2 shows always cracked me up. One was obvious, one not. 
 

Prison Break and American Idol. 

[sheeeit 129]

Lots of non informed posts on this topic.  It is a tough topic to truly get an understanding of.

To the OP- Such a bullshit meme when the facts are known and typical of those that piled on before knowing any of the facts.  The reality of many, if not most, of these types of claims (racial motivation in sentencing) is just not true based on the facts.

https://www.jud12.flcourts.org/Portals/0/News/Documents/Final-Response-SHT-Article/Final_response_to_bias_on_the_bench.pdf#page=19&view=fit

This is a decent read if anyone cares about the truth.  

The Sarasota Herald Tribune series of articles (which started all this) demonstrates a really big problem.  The reporter's have a preconceived idea of what is happening and then actively look for the most egregious cases they can find to put in print.  When the cases are actually fact checked the SHT reporters look like fools at best case and intentional race baiting liars at worst.  They looked really hard to find examples of cases that proved their theory but could not actually find any.  That is incredibly telling.  It certainly suggests that the narrative is false.  

To the prison issue, there really are no great answers.  Interestingly from the article above, the black defendant in one case did receive the kind of training/rehabilitation that some of you are saying doesn't exist.  It does exist and not just for juveniles but the prisoner has to pro actively seek out the help.   From the article:

"Records indicate that, upon entry into the Youthful Offender and EDP programs, Sturgis accomplished significant achievements, including but not limited to: completing the Victim Impact Awareness Program, completing the Anger Management Program, earning his General Equivalency Diploma (GED), receiving a Certificate of Exceptional Achievement in the Toastmaster Communication Program; receiving a Certificate of Competency in Masonry Industrial Safety Standards; and achieving “Helper” level in a masonry vocational program which prepares inmates to find work in the construction industry."  Those programs are needed, are just, are deserving etc.  However, in this particular case, the defendant was rearrested two years later for robbery/grand larceny and will likely go back to prison for much longer.  No one really knows what to do with people that make a mistake and then get the necessary help they need but wind up committing more crimes.  Fatty may be right that long prison sentences for these folks (habitual offenders that have successfully completed rehabilitation programs) should happen.  It is a tough call for sure.

Recidivism rates are also a highly misrepresented stat.  https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2015/10/why-do-so-many-prisoners-end-up-back-in-prison-a-new-study-says-maybe-they-dont.html

The reality is that approximately 67% of people that enter and leave prison never return.  Virtually every prison has rehab programs.  And, more importantly, after a minimum of time served in one prison, if the prisoner has been good, they have the option to transfer to a facility that has better rehab programs.  No one would argue that prisons are very good at administering their rehab programs, they are not, but the programs exist.

The war on drugs is difficult to blame for most incarcerations as some seem to think.  I think the laws are misguided and think most drugs should be legalized or at least decriminalized.  That is another debate.  But drug offenses (possession and trafficking) only account for 14% of prison populations.  https://felonvoting.procon.org/incarcerated-felon-population-by-type-of-crime-committed/

Violent crimes (murder, assault, robbery, rape etc ) make up 55% of inmates and property crimes make up 17%.  Total of 71%.  Obviously, many of those crimes involve drugs in some capacity but it is simply untrue that drug users are filling up prisons.  And there are essentially no people in prison for first time simple possession or use of any drugs (cocaine, meth, heroin etc.) It is 0.9%. https://www.hudson.org/research/11851-criminal-justice-reform-and-drugs-myths-and-facts

The reality is that we are a huge country.  There are around 180,000,000 million people between 15 and 60.  There are about 1,200,000 people currently in a state or federal prison.  0.65%.  I would argue most deserve to be there.  Human nature would argue that we should have a larger number in prison.  

 

 

 

[Bullneck 19454]

23 hours ago, Skipper said:

I don't care what gender or race you are, if you are driving around committing armed robberies with a 2 year old and 5 year old in the backseat, putting their lives in danger so you can take a few hundred bucks from a Pizza Hutt, your ass needs to go to jail for a long time.

 

[Don Johnson 4802]

20 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Again, prison is not nor should it be a death sentence.  They are human beings who exist on this earth.  We cannot just kill them.  It is really, really wrong, on every level, that we functionally don't give a shit if we kill them.

Imagine posting this above, and then this

I'm not just rooting for the virus.  I'm rooting for it to evolve in one particular way: if you are an unvaxxed adult, the lethality rate skyrockets.

Within a two hour period of the same day.  

Pedophiles, thieves, murderers, rapists...wrong on every level to not give a shit if they die.

For the "human beings who exist on this earth" but did not get a vaccination......literally rooting for their deaths.

[Brisketexan 106618]

1 minute ago, Don Johnson said:

Imagine posting this above, and then this

I'm not just rooting for the virus.  I'm rooting for it to evolve in one particular way: if you are an unvaxxed adult, the lethality rate skyrockets.

Within a two hour period of the same day.  

Pedophiles, thieves, murderers, rapists...wrong on every level to not give a shit if they die.

For the "human beings who exist on this earth" but did not get a vaccination......literally rooting for their deaths.

People who are 1) actively, in real-time, choosing to risk death, while simultaneously 2) actively, in real-time choosing to risk harming the rest of us?  Yeah, I feel about them the way I feel about a murderer or rapist actively committing a crime in real-time: if he insists on continuing his harmful activity, then the use of lethal force to stop him is justified.  Catch someone about to commit murder, and they won't stop?  Shoot him.  Catch a murderer after the fact, and take him into custody?  Treat him as a prisoner with attendant human rights.  It's entirely consistent.

It's not that they are unvaccinated.  It's the fact that they are actively choosing and continuing, as we speak, to engage in a course of action that heightens the risk of horrific consequences for them AND the rest of us.  They should be stopped.  If it's the virus doing the stopping....more power to it.

[Don Johnson 4802]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

People who are 1) actively, in real-time, choosing to risk death, while simultaneously 2) actively, in real-time choosing to risk harming the rest of us?  Yeah, I feel about them the way I feel about a murderer or rapist actively committing a crime in real-time: if he insists on continuing his harmful activity, then the use of lethal force to stop him is justified.  Catch someone about to commit murder, and they won't stop?  Shoot him.  Catch a murderer after the fact, and take him into custody?  Treat him as a prisoner with attendant human rights.  It's entirely consistent.

It's not that they are unvaccinated.  It's the fact that they are actively choosing and continuing, as we speak, to engage in a course of action that heightens the risk of horrific consequences for them AND the rest of us.  They should be stopped.  If it's the virus doing the stopping....more power to it.

What's the difference between someone doing 1 & 2, catching Covid, taken into "custody" (hospital), and dying in the hospital weeks later, and

Someone doing 1 & 2, raping someone, being arrested and dying in jail weeks later?

Other than the incredibly obvious differences...why do you have compassion for one but not the other?  Why do you actively root for the death of one but protect the life of the other?  Politics?

[Brisketexan 106618]

14 minutes ago, Don Johnson said:

What's the difference between someone doing 1 & 2, catching Covid, taken into "custody" (hospital), and dying in the hospital weeks later, and

Someone doing 1 & 2, raping someone, being arrested and dying in jail weeks later?

Other than the incredibly obvious differences...why do you have compassion for one but not the other?  Why do you actively root for the death of one but protect the life of the other?  Politics?

One is continuing to endanger others by his choices -- the harm is literally ongoing (risk of further transmission, taking up a hospital bed that other patients have literally died waiting on, etc.).  And when they die, it is a direct and continuing consequence of that specific action.

The other is done harming people.  The active harm stopped when he was taken into custody.  Any action that harms him after that is a new sequence.

It's the difference between self-defense and revenge.  When you shoot the murderer has significant ethical and criminal differences.

 

[Don Johnson 4802]

13 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

One is continuing to endanger others by his choices -- the harm is literally ongoing (risk of further transmission, taking up a hospital bed that other patients have literally died waiting on, etc.).  And when they die, it is a direct and continuing consequence of that specific action.

The other is done harming people.  The active harm stopped when he was taken into custody.  Any action that harms him after that is a new sequence.

It's the difference between self-defense and revenge.  When you shoot the murderer has significant ethical and criminal differences.

 

Difference between self defense and revenge?  Instead of rooting for the virus to become less deadly, you are rooting for it to evolve and become more lethal to a segment of "humans on this earth."  In fact, in the scenario you root for, it is of no danger to anyone other than the unvaxxed.  When they are in the hospital and likely done transmitting the virus to anyone, you are still rooting for their death.  

That seems pretty vengeful.

Edited September 21, 2021 by Don Johnson

[OneOfTheOutOfFocusGuys 2153]

34 minutes ago, Don Johnson said:

What's the difference . . .

Other than the incredibly obvious differences

 

[Brisketexan 106618]

55 minutes ago, Don Johnson said:

In fact, in the scenario you root for, it is of no danger to anyone other than the unvaxxed.  When they are in the hospital and likely done transmitting the virus to anyone, you are still rooting for their death.  

False.  Ask the veteran who died in Texas a week or so ago because there were no beds to treat his treatable condition.  Ask the kid in Florida who went septic from appendicitis because he couldn't get in to be treated because COVID patients had taken all of the finite resources (beds), so his appendix burst, he almost died, had to go through intensive treatment, and put his family in huge medical debt.  Just for starters.  Those are the first two examples.

The choice not to get vaccinated negatively impacts 1) the unvaccinated person 2) their family who may depend on them 3) society who may have to help support that family after they're gone, 4) those who CANNOT be vaccinated (children, immunocompromised who can't take a vax, etc.) who may catch the virus from these spreaders, 5) the healthcare professionals who are both risking their own health and experience brutal PTSD from the waves of gruesomely suffering and dying patients, and 6) everyone else who may need medical care, but none is available because it is all being taken up by selfish anti-vaxxers.  Several of those consequences are ongoing and continuing until the moment of their death (and in the case of the PTSD, and the cost of supporting their orphans etc., long after).

Anti-vaxxers cause harm to society and the rest of us all the way to and through the bitter end.

[Don Johnson 4802]

8 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

False.  Ask the veteran who died in Texas a week or so ago because there were no beds to treat his treatable condition.  Ask the kid in Florida who went septic from appendicitis because he couldn't get in to be treated because COVID patients had taken all of the finite resources (beds), so his appendix burst, he almost died, had to go through intensive treatment, and put his family in huge medical debt.  Just for starters.  Those are the first two examples.

The choice not to get vaccinated negatively impacts 1) the unvaccinated person 2) their family who may depend on them 3) society who may have to help support that family after they're gone, 4) those who CANNOT be vaccinated (children, immunocompromised who can't take a vax, etc.) who may catch the virus from these spreaders, 5) the healthcare professionals who are both risking their own health and experience brutal PTSD from the waves of gruesomely suffering and dying patients, and 6) everyone else who may need medical care, but none is available because it is all being taken up by selfish anti-vaxxers.  Several of those consequences are ongoing and continuing until the moment of their death (and in the case of the PTSD, and the cost of supporting their orphans etc., long after).

Anti-vaxxers cause harm to society and the rest of us all the way to and through the bitter end.

You chose to focus on that one sentence rather than the blatant hypocrisy of your thought process between the two groups of humans on this earth.

But I’ll address that sentence. Would you rather spend 24 hours in a hospital room with someone with Covid or 24 hours in a prison cell with a murderer?  I think we all know the answer.   And it’s not with the one you say is “done harming people.”  Because they aren’t.  Ask the people who have been beaten, raped and killed in prison. 

But you hope they live and root for the others to die. 

[Captainant 28387]

3 minutes ago, Don Johnson said:

But I’ll address that sentence. Would you rather spend 24 hours in a hospital room with someone with Covid or 24 hours in a prison cell with a murderer?  I think we all know the answer.   And it’s not with the one you say is “done harming people.”  Because they aren’t.  Ask the people who have been beaten, raped and killed in prison. 

yall are really starting to stretch these outrageous hypotheticals to the breaking point lol. 

[Don Johnson 4802]

18 minutes ago, Captainant said:

yall are really starting to stretch these outrageous hypotheticals to the breaking point lol. 

I’m not the one arguing that a murderer who has been arrested is no longer harming anyone and deserves to live yet a Covid patient in the hospital is such a danger that we should root for them to die. 

[hobbes2702 13351]

Just now, Don Johnson said:

I’m not the one arguing that a murderer who has been arrested is no longer harming anyone and deserves to live yet a Covid patient in the hospital is such a danger that we should root for them to die. 

Who is the imprisoned murderer still harming? Seems like you skipped that step

[Don Johnson 4802]

9 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

Who is the imprisoned murderer still harming? Seems like you skipped that step

No one gets hurt in prison ever. It’s a pleasant place. Much safer than being around someone with Covid. 

[Brisketexan 106618]

12 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

Who is the imprisoned murderer still harming? Seems like you skipped that step

He did.  It's what he's done the whole time.  Every minute an unvaxxed COVID patient is in a hospital bed that is needed by other people, he is harming other people.  Every minute a murderer is in a jail cell.....he is NOT harming other people.  Now, he might LATER harm another person who goes into his jail cell, and with some murderers, that risk may well be high.  But the fact remains that COVID guy occupying a bed is actively harming others by his occupancy, murderer occupying jail cell is not actively harming others.  Oh, and when/if he does.....yes, use of force, including lethal force, is okay to stop that new act of harm.

Edited September 21, 2021 by Brisketexan

[hobbes2702 13351]

3 minutes ago, Don Johnson said:

No one gets hurt in prison ever. It’s a pleasant place. Much safer than being around someone with Covid. 

No one claimed that people don’t get hurt in prison. 
You set this hypothetical up. Who is that prisoner in this hypothetical currently harming? 

[Don Johnson 4802]

15 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

He did.  It's what he's done the whole time.  Every minute an unvaxxed COVID patient is in a hospital bed that is needed by other people, he is harming other people.  Every minute a murderer is in a jail cell.....he is NOT harming other people.  Now, he might LATER harm another person who goes into his jail cell, and with some murderers, that risk may well be high.  But the fact remains that COVID guy occupying a bed is actively harming others by his occupancy, murderer occupying jail cell is not actively harming others.  Oh, and when/if he does.....yes, use of force, including lethal force, is okay to stop that new act of harm.

I haven't skipped a single thing in the conversation. You want to give an example of someone not getting a hospital bed, I can give an example of someone harmed in prison.  We can post links all day.

With the bolded, you're starting to get quite specific here.  Because just like every murderer is NOT harming other people, not every unvaxxed Covid patient is in a hospital bed needed by other people.  The vast majority are just in a hospital bed fighting for their lives.  But you want them all dead.  And you think all prisoners deserve the right to life.

I can understand compassion for both.  I can understand a lack of compassion for both.  It gets sticky when you act like the moral compass for the treatment inmates yet root for the death of all unvaxxed. 

FWIW, I agree with you ITT.  I actually liked seeing old Brisket show up with some compassion rather than making absurd statements about rooting for the deaths of millions of humans on this earth.

 

[wildcat09 29556]

18 hours ago, Don Johnson said:

You chose to focus on that one sentence rather than the blatant hypocrisy of your thought process between the two groups of humans on this earth.

But I’ll address that sentence. Would you rather spend 24 hours in a hospital room with someone with Covid or 24 hours in a prison cell with a murderer?  I think we all know the answer.   And it’s not with the one you say is “done harming people.”  Because they aren’t.  Ask the people who have been beaten, raped and killed in prison. 

But you hope they live and root for the others to die. 

Give me the murderer. I've got a lot more confidence in my ability to protect myself from being murdered for 24 hours than I do in my immune system's ability to withstand 24 hours of continuous exposure to the delta variant.

[DigglerontheHoof 21516]

5 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Give me the murderer. I've got a lot more confidence in my ability to protect myself from being murdered for 24 hours than I do in my immune system's ability to withstand 24 hours of continuous exposure to the delta variant.

100%.  I'll fuck up a murderer.  

[Js1 86939]

24 hours in a hospital room with someone with COVID or 24 hours watch football games and listening to commentary from Charlie Strong, Tom Herman is pressing his buttcheeks to the window and making you look, and NowThis is pegging you from behind while Case McCoy films it? 

Since we are doing stupid, inane analogies to justify not being vaccinated. 

[Hate 20232]

Lots of non informed posts on this topic.  It is a tough topic to truly get an understanding of.
To the OP- Such a bullshit meme when the facts are known and typical of those that piled on before knowing any of the facts.  The reality of many, if not most, of these types of claims (racial motivation in sentencing) is just not true based on the facts.
https://www.jud12.flcourts.org/Portals/0/News/Documents/Final-Response-SHT-Article/Final_response_to_bias_on_the_bench.pdf#page=19&view=fit
This is a decent read if anyone cares about the truth.  
The Sarasota Herald Tribune series of articles (which started all this) demonstrates a really big problem.  The reporter's have a preconceived idea of what is happening and then actively look for the most egregious cases they can find to put in print.  When the cases are actually fact checked the SHT reporters look like fools at best case and intentional race baiting liars at worst.  They looked really hard to find examples of cases that proved their theory but could not actually find any.  That is incredibly telling.  It certainly suggests that the narrative is false.  
To the prison issue, there really are no great answers.  Interestingly from the article above, the black defendant in one case did receive the kind of training/rehabilitation that some of you are saying doesn't exist.  It does exist and not just for juveniles but the prisoner has to pro actively seek out the help.   From the article:
"Records indicate that, upon entry into the Youthful Offender and EDP programs, Sturgis accomplished significant achievements, including but not limited to: completing the Victim Impact Awareness Program, completing the Anger Management Program, earning his General Equivalency Diploma (GED), receiving a Certificate of Exceptional Achievement in the Toastmaster Communication Program; receiving a Certificate of Competency in Masonry Industrial Safety Standards; and achieving “Helper” level in a masonry vocational program which prepares inmates to find work in the construction industry."  Those programs are needed, are just, are deserving etc.  However, in this particular case, the defendant was rearrested two years later for robbery/grand larceny and will likely go back to prison for much longer.  No one really knows what to do with people that make a mistake and then get the necessary help they need but wind up committing more crimes.  Fatty may be right that long prison sentences for these folks (habitual offenders that have successfully completed rehabilitation programs) should happen.  It is a tough call for sure.
Recidivism rates are also a highly misrepresented stat.  https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2015/10/why-do-so-many-prisoners-end-up-back-in-prison-a-new-study-says-maybe-they-dont.html
The reality is that approximately 67% of people that enter and leave prison never return.  Virtually every prison has rehab programs.  And, more importantly, after a minimum of time served in one prison, if the prisoner has been good, they have the option to transfer to a facility that has better rehab programs.  No one would argue that prisons are very good at administering their rehab programs, they are not, but the programs exist.
The war on drugs is difficult to blame for most incarcerations as some seem to think.  I think the laws are misguided and think most drugs should be legalized or at least decriminalized.  That is another debate.  But drug offenses (possession and trafficking) only account for 14% of prison populations.  https://felonvoting.procon.org/incarcerated-felon-population-by-type-of-crime-committed/
Violent crimes (murder, assault, robbery, rape etc ) make up 55% of inmates and property crimes make up 17%.  Total of 71%.  Obviously, many of those crimes involve drugs in some capacity but it is simply untrue that drug users are filling up prisons.  And there are essentially no people in prison for first time simple possession or use of any drugs (cocaine, meth, heroin etc.) It is 0.9%. https://www.hudson.org/research/11851-criminal-justice-reform-and-drugs-myths-and-facts
The reality is that we are a huge country.  There are around 180,000,000 million people between 15 and 60.  There are about 1,200,000 people currently in a state or federal prison.  0.65%.  I would argue most deserve to be there.  Human nature would argue that we should have a larger number in prison.  
 
 
 

I guess everyone has you on ignore since there were no responses/reactions to this post other than a really strange neg.

[wildcat09 29556]

Sheeeit is a notorious troll so yes, everyone has him on ignore and has for years.

[hayden_horn 11401]

18 hours ago, Don Johnson said:

No one gets hurt in prison ever. It’s a pleasant place. Much safer than being around someone with Covid. 

which is a massive problem for what should be the most secure place on the planet. prison is not safe. it should be safe. why is it not safe?

[washparkhorn 9967]

5 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

it should be safe. why is it not safe

Old Testament Christians ("oxymoron/s") who will not accept the New Covenant with Christ.

You know the type - judgmental (sin), boastful (sin), greedy (sin), hateful (sin), blasphemous (sin) and unloving (sin). 

Hypocrites on their way to Hell, Fire and Brimstone.

[Hate 20232]

2 hours ago, wildcat09 said:

Sheeeit is a notorious troll so yes, everyone has him on ignore and has for years.

So you have no idea if what he is posted is accurate or not.  I will copy and paste for you so you don't have to take him off ignore.  It seems to be well sourced, but I do not know anything about the sources.  I figured at least Captainant would know the sources.

 

The reality of many, if not most, of these types of claims (racial motivation in sentencing) is just not true based on the facts.
https://www.jud12.flcourts.org/Portals/0/News/Documents/Final-Response-SHT-Article/Final_response_to_bias_on_the_bench.pdf#page=19&view=fit
This is a decent read if anyone cares about the truth.  
The Sarasota Herald Tribune series of articles (which started all this) demonstrates a really big problem.  The reporter's have a preconceived idea of what is happening and then actively look for the most egregious cases they can find to put in print.  When the cases are actually fact checked the SHT reporters look like fools at best case and intentional race baiting liars at worst.  They looked really hard to find examples of cases that proved their theory but could not actually find any.  That is incredibly telling.  It certainly suggests that the narrative is false.  
To the prison issue, there really are no great answers.  Interestingly from the article above, the black defendant in one case did receive the kind of training/rehabilitation that some of you are saying doesn't exist.  It does exist and not just for juveniles but the prisoner has to pro actively seek out the help.   From the article:
"Records indicate that, upon entry into the Youthful Offender and EDP programs, Sturgis accomplished significant achievements, including but not limited to: completing the Victim Impact Awareness Program, completing the Anger Management Program, earning his General Equivalency Diploma (GED), receiving a Certificate of Exceptional Achievement in the Toastmaster Communication Program; receiving a Certificate of Competency in Masonry Industrial Safety Standards; and achieving “Helper” level in a masonry vocational program which prepares inmates to find work in the construction industry."  Those programs are needed, are just, are deserving etc.  However, in this particular case, the defendant was rearrested two years later for robbery/grand larceny and will likely go back to prison for much longer.  No one really knows what to do with people that make a mistake and then get the necessary help they need but wind up committing more crimes.  Fatty may be right that long prison sentences for these folks (habitual offenders that have successfully completed rehabilitation programs) should happen.  It is a tough call for sure.
Recidivism rates are also a highly misrepresented stat.  https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2015/10/why-do-so-many-prisoners-end-up-back-in-prison-a-new-study-says-maybe-they-dont.html
The reality is that approximately 67% of people that enter and leave prison never return.  Virtually every prison has rehab programs.  And, more importantly, after a minimum of time served in one prison, if the prisoner has been good, they have the option to transfer to a facility that has better rehab programs.  No one would argue that prisons are very good at administering their rehab programs, they are not, but the programs exist.
The war on drugs is difficult to blame for most incarcerations as some seem to think.  I think the laws are misguided and think most drugs should be legalized or at least decriminalized.  That is another debate.  But drug offenses (possession and trafficking) only account for 14% of prison populations.  https://felonvoting.procon.org/incarcerated-felon-population-by-type-of-crime-committed/
Violent crimes (murder, assault, robbery, rape etc ) make up 55% of inmates and property crimes make up 17%.  Total of 71%.  Obviously, many of those crimes involve drugs in some capacity but it is simply untrue that drug users are filling up prisons.  And there are essentially no people in prison for first time simple possession or use of any drugs (cocaine, meth, heroin etc.) It is 0.9%. https://www.hudson.org/research/11851-criminal-justice-reform-and-drugs-myths-and-facts
The reality is that we are a huge country.  There are around 180,000,000 million people between 15 and 60.  There are about 1,200,000 people currently in a state or federal prison.  0.65%.  I would argue most deserve to be there.  Human nature would argue that we should have a larger number in prison. 

 

[Guest]

On 9/20/2021 at 12:32 PM, Pancho said:

 

Two armed robberies.

Fuck em both.  Fuck the judge too.

[NWBuck 8619]

Found this interesting:

 

[WhatTheBuck 28904]

Simple explanation. It’s another surly thread where the title of the thread says nothing about the subject of the thread. Every surly thread should be titled, “Check this out.”

Btw, for the record I have no idea what this thread is about. 

Edited September 23, 2021 by WhatTheBuck

[Willfully Horn 8204]

Fuck that stealing a backpack can result in being locked up for three years without a trial. Even if that means I pay more in taxes.

 

And, human nature, as defined by the actions of humans on planet Earth, sees fit to lock up 150-ish folks per 100,000. The US is nowhere near the human mean, much less behind the curve, at almost 700 per 100,000.

What the fuck?

Edited September 23, 2021 by Willfully Horn
Math

[TwiceHorn 31987]

12 hours ago, Hate said:

I guess everyone has you on ignore since there were no responses/reactions to this post other than a really strange neg.

There are some useful facts in there.  No one goes to prison for possession offenses.  Drug crimes as the primary offense are not a huge component of inmates, either, except in the federal system, which is currently flooded with criminal immigration offenders, which is why drug crimes are not Number 1.

But, that article ignores that the war on drugs creates an environment in which violent crimes proliferate, relating to drug deals, hits, so on and so forth.  So many more violent crimes are directly drug and drug-trafficking-related.

There are rehab programs in prisons, but they aren't terribly effective, and, from what I can gather not widely available even to those who seek them out.  Most of those programs listed are BS, except the masonry vocational program, and "helper" is not much of a qualification in terms of skill.

Recidivism stats are hard.  There's a lot of variance in them and they should always be taken with a grain of salt.  One problem is that the "reoffense" is often a "parole" or "probation" violation of a fairly technical or minor nature for which the convict would not have been imprisoned, or even arrested, other than the fact of supervision.  Other times, it's an actual independent crime.  It's COMSAT.

The central problem with recidivism and rehabilitation is that prison sends former inmates usually right back into the milieu that produced them:  poverty, drugs, violence and in an even more desperate and broken state than they were before.  I'm not sure what the answer is there, but I'm pretty sure it's not longer sentences.  And whatever we're doing isn't working, so I'm open to new ideas.

Edited September 23, 2021 by TwiceHorn