Do you FIRE? Financial Independence, Retire Early

[UTGrad98 2271]

5 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

My number is $10 million in liquid assets (not including real estate equity).  Once I'm there, I'm out.  Hopefully we're 2-3 years away from that.  

My brothers goal is in this range. He is starting to build his dental practices and will sell in about 5 years and his wife is an MD. The thing is we have our youngest brother and he could care less about any of it. Bought a 5 acre property in between the airport and Bastrop for about 100k last year and is the happiest of all of us. All my wife, me, my brother and his wife do is bitch about how stressful our lives are. Meanwhile our youngest brother just built an outdoor movie theater and honestly living the dream in my eyes. I can't wait to join him. His retirement plan is building a hobbit house and renting it out on air b and b. 

[Chewbacca 7765]

29 minutes ago, UTGrad98 said:

My brothers goal is in this range. He is starting to build his dental practices and will sell in about 5 years and his wife is an MD. The thing is we have our youngest brother and he could care less about any of it. Bought a 5 acre property in between the airport and Bastrop for about 100k last year and is the happiest of all of us. All my wife, me, my brother and his wife do is bitch about how stressful our lives are. Meanwhile our youngest brother just built an outdoor movie theater and honestly living the dream in my eyes. I can't wait to join him. His retirement plan is building a hobbit house and renting it out on air b and b. 

That's awesome.  My idea of retirement is probably working some here and there.  Business partners and I plan on selling the business once we get it big enough, but keeping a couple strategic pieces of it so we can dabble here and there when we want to, but not have the huge payroll we have today.  Wife and I are going to remodel our mountain house so we can move there full time and do a lot of traveling.  

[CooterBrown 18001]

Housing costs? Even if your house were paid off I would imagine taxes would be $30K annually or more

IIRC, after 65 you can just not pay property taxes. Taxes will just accrue and be due after you die and the property is sold. IMO, that’s a good option if you’re tight on retirement funds. Heirs should never expect anything more than enough money to cover your dead ass with dirt.

[Beantown Express 2.0 6559]

For me the hardest part is calculating the future costs of hookers and blow.  Once I figure that out I guess I will retire.  

In all honesty just found this thread and it fascinates me to hear about so many people looking to retire young.  I could probably retire now with what I have squirreled away as I have lived below my means for probably 20 plus years.  I lived that way not because I am trying to retire early but I guess I just always wanted to make sure I had "just in case" money and didn't want to be one of those people that if they lose their job they are on the street in 2 months.  I am fortunate that I work at a large company that pays me a shit ton of money (sales) and I don't have to work very hard at this point.  Don't get me wrong, I paid my dues early in my career and busted my ass and didn't make shit for money.  My wife gives me grief for not "working hard now and that all the people that report to me bust their asses" and she is always naming friends and family that work 24 hours a day, seven days a week yet I probably make more in a year what they make in 4-5 years.   Do none of you have a concern about retiring and then just being bored?  That is my biggest fear about walking away at this point.  

[Incredulity 11643]

14 minutes ago, Beantown Express 2.0 said:

Do none of you have a concern about retiring and then just being bored?  That is my biggest fear about walking away at this point.

Absolutely.

Far enough along that I have seen in the last few years more than one retiree that I worked with drink themselves to death out of boredom after retirement.

One specifically spent the last couple years he was working earfucking me about how he was going to tour the country towing an airstream and relaxing. That lasted about 6 months before he gave it up.

[52-80 19140]

9 hours ago, Beantown Express 2.0 said:

In all honesty just found this thread and it fascinates me to hear about so many people looking to retire young. ...   Do none of you have a concern about retiring and then just being bored?  That is my biggest fear about walking away at this point.  

Just like everything, hobbies and preferences and circumstances change.  Retirement was something I'd never previously obsessed over.  I was fortunate enough in the first half of my career to have never dreaded work.  I had a job that was easy, well paying, and bounced me around Europe.  Basically "going to work" was fulfilling my personal hobby (travel) while building the nest egg.

Now the travel is out of my system and all I want to do is spend time with family.  (This entire winter break was satisfyingly just entertaining the nieces and nephews, before  my own kid arrives).  Every minute spent on a pointless conference call about nonsense is a minute away from them.  I'd rather not engage in that sort of petty corporate activity again.

[Beantown Express 2.0 6559]

1 hour ago, 52-80 said:

Just like everything, hobbies and preferences and circumstances change.  Retirement was something I'd never previously obsessed over.  I was fortunate enough in the first half of my career to have never dreaded work.  I had a job that was easy, well paying, and bounced me around Europe.  Basically "going to work" was fulfilling my personal hobby (travel) while building the nest egg.

Now the travel is out of my system and all I want to do is spend time with family.  (This entire winter break was satisfyingly just entertaining the nieces and nephews, before  my own kid arrives).  Every minute spent on a pointless conference call about nonsense is a minute away from them.  I'd rather not engage in that sort of petty corporate activity again.

Totally get you.  I get to travel, eat at nice places, golf, etc for work but the conference calls about nothing and corporate stuff are what suck the joy out of my job and make me even consider retiring.  Nothing like a call about an event that may or may not take place, a year from now that we may or may not even attend and  my boss needs to have a discussion and planning for.  Drives me nuts.

[TexasEd 8066]

On 1/2/2022 at 10:54 PM, tequila said:

Jesus Christ, I guess most of y’all never want to have fun once you’re done working?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm working towards living off my same income when I retire but not having to work during the week.  I'll get to do a lot of fun things in what used to be the work day plus no more supporting 3 kids once they are grown and gone (Crossing fingers) so that is a lot of expense to divert to leisure.

 

[Sbbruin 21825]

My oldest is a HS senior, and his sister is 2 years behind him.  At 54, I am looking to get them through college before I really set my sights on retirement.  I'm in a relatively low-stress, high-paying job, so why give that up?  The biggest challenge I see is getting the wife on the same page about retirement income/spending.  She has been a shoot-from-the-hip spender, and that won't work.

[Sbbruin 21825]

@UTGrad98, out of curiosity, where in Mexico are your in-laws?  And are they American ex-pats or Mexican nationals?

I have definitely fantasized about making the move to San Carlos, MX.  Large expat community, 5 hr drive from Tucson, and 2 marinas. This would work just fine.

https://www.seaside-realty.net/post/16-villas-california

[Chewbacca 7765]

12 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

@UTGrad98, out of curiosity, where in Mexico are your in-laws?  And are they American ex-pats or Mexican nationals?

I have definitely fantasized about making the move to San Carlos, MX.  Large expat community, 5 hr drive from Tucson, and 2 marinas. This would work just fine.

https://www.seaside-realty.net/post/16-villas-california

Can you actually buy in Mexico these days, or is it still the 99 year land lease bullshit they used to do?

[Sbbruin 21825]

23 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

Can you actually buy in Mexico these days, or is it still the 99 year land lease bullshit they used to do?

It's the trust approach for all properties within 50 km of the coast.  Not a land lease.  Bank holds the trust.  It is pretty secure.

Quote

The Mexican Constitution does not allow foreigners to register deeds to land in their own names in areas of Mexico that are included in a zone 50 kilometers wide along the coast and 100 kilometers from the US border, which is the restricted zone.

So, as Mexican government encourages foreign investment, in the early 70's they set a law that allows foreigners to "own" real estate in the Restricted Zone by using a "bank trust deed" called Fideicomiso, or Trust, and since 1993 was amended to make it more liberal and to comply with the provisions of the North American Free Trade Agreement.

According to the Trust, the Foreigner/Purchaser is named as the beneficiary of the trust and has all the rights of normal ownership.  The bank has no rights of ownership in the property the deed is not hold as the bank's asset. Even if a bank were to fail or close, the deeds in trust would be transferred to another bank and would not be subject to bank creditor claims. All rights of normal ownership  also includes: selling, renting, improving, disposing or even destroying. The Foreigner/Purchaser pays all property taxes, utilities, and other charges made against the property.  The banks charge an annual fee ($400 to $650 depending on the bank) for holding the deed of trust.

For any foreigner to own property in Mexico, a permit must be obtained from the Secretary of Foreign Affairs in Mexico City. As evidence that the government considers Trusts (Fideicomisos) a form of ownership, the Foreigner /Purchaser of a Trust must obtain this permit.The trust allows the Foreigner/Purchaser to name primary and secondary beneficiaries as well, so the property can pass to descendants without the need for a will or probate.

 

Under current law, the Trusts run for a term of 50 years and then they are renewable for another 50 years.  It is not the intention of the government to ever acquire these properties, so this does not happen. When a Foreigner decides to sell this property, the new purchaser has the option of assuming the existing Trust or taking out a new Trust for a new term of 50 years. Foreigners have also been known to switch banks and take out a new Trust for a new 50 year term without selling the property.

 

[UTGrad98 2271]

1 hour ago, Sbbruin said:

@UTGrad98, out of curiosity, where in Mexico are your in-laws?  And are they American ex-pats or Mexican nationals?

I have definitely fantasized about making the move to San Carlos, MX.  Large expat community, 5 hr drive from Tucson, and 2 marinas. This would work just fine.

https://www.seaside-realty.net/post/16-villas-california

They are Mexican nationals and live in a small town/suburb about 30 miles outside mexico city. There are some really nice places in Mexico with large ex pat communities. San Miguel de Allende comes to mind and is one of our options we are currently looking at. My wife wants to buy a beach property too but she isn't quite sure where or if she wants just the land or something already built. 

[hornbri 1390]

8 hours ago, 52-80 said:

Just like everything, hobbies and preferences and circumstances change.  Retirement was something I'd never previously obsessed over.  I was fortunate enough in the first half of my career to have never dreaded work.  I had a job that was easy, well paying, and bounced me around Europe.  Basically "going to work" was fulfilling my personal hobby (travel) while building the nest egg.

Now the travel is out of my system and all I want to do is spend time with family.  (This entire winter break was satisfyingly just entertaining the nieces and nephews, before  my own kid arrives).  Every minute spent on a pointless conference call about nonsense is a minute away from them.  I'd rather not engage in that sort of petty corporate activity again.

This is me. 

From the time I left UT until the last couple of years. I loved my job and just thought I would do it forever. Tech industry, traveling around the world, getting to work on exciting projects that made a difference. All stuffed I liked….

Then the SVP changed, job changed, family happened,  global pandemic, perspectives change.

Sure I am worried I will get bored, but having a 6 and 9 year old now and getting to spend Tuesday meeting them for lunch at school and taking them to sports practice. Sure is a lot nicer then the corporate world and no amount of money was going to buy that time back. 

[mchookem 16318]

everybody kept telling me i'd get bored but i just passed the two year mark and it hasn't happened yet. i really just don't ever get bored. i spend a lot of time inside my own head, so even if i have nothing to do i'm okay just hanging out there.

with the exception of like the first four months of covid lockdown (during which i had some pretty dark thoughts, like many others i'm sure) it's been exactly what i thought it would be. basically just doing whatever i want whenever i want. 

i don't really know how else to describe it 🤔 ...i enjoy having wide open days and the ability to do anything - doctor, salon, hikes, travel, family visits, gym, cooking, errands, lunches, happy hours, etc. etc. - any time i want. i don't watch tv during the day, but i do listen to music regularly. and visit surly obviously 😁 i like being outside, whether that's floating in the pool or hiking a greenbelt. i like being able to pop down to Port A with my dog for a couple of days by myself.

i really just sort of relish not being beholden to anyone else's schedule or expectations (other than my spouse of course 😊). it's something psychological/emotional, i know that...i have a fiercely independent streak and have always hated the notion of others controlling me. thankfully my spouse understands this and lets me be me.

anyways, something from my childhood/adolescence, family dynamics, etc...i've just sort of ended up as this YOU CAN'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO! person. many don't 'get it', some would think it a pointless existence maybe. but i mean...i do exist, why shouldn't i be able to do it in a way that makes me content? 🙂

 

[mchookem 16318]

7 hours ago, UTGrad98 said:

They are Mexican nationals and live in a small town/suburb about 30 miles outside mexico city. There are some really nice places in Mexico with large ex pat communities. San Miguel de Allende comes to mind and is one of our options we are currently looking at. My wife wants to buy a beach property too but she isn't quite sure where or if she wants just the land or something already built. 

we have friends that retired to the Lake Chapala area. apparently that's one of the largest Canadian and American expat communities in Mexico? we've visited and it's pretty damn nice. their condo is basically something you'd find here. well, except for the goats and chickens next door 😁 i'll say this...it is LOUD lol. but there are definitely a lot of gringos...with the exception of having to put all your toilet paper into a wastebasket instead of flushing it 😝, everywhere we went was pretty white-icized. 

[Brew 3049]

On 1/3/2022 at 9:38 PM, Beantown Express 2.0 said:

For me the hardest part is calculating the future costs of hookers and blow.  Once I figure that out I guess I will retire.  

In all honesty just found this thread and it fascinates me to hear about so many people looking to retire young.  I could probably retire now with what I have squirreled away as I have lived below my means for probably 20 plus years.  I lived that way not because I am trying to retire early but I guess I just always wanted to make sure I had "just in case" money and didn't want to be one of those people that if they lose their job they are on the street in 2 months.  I am fortunate that I work at a large company that pays me a shit ton of money (sales) and I don't have to work very hard at this point.  Don't get me wrong, I paid my dues early in my career and busted my ass and didn't make shit for money.  My wife gives me grief for not "working hard now and that all the people that report to me bust their asses" and she is always naming friends and family that work 24 hours a day, seven days a week yet I probably make more in a year what they make in 4-5 years.   Do none of you have a concern about retiring and then just being bored?  That is my biggest fear about walking away at this point.  

My concern over boredom is outweighed by my concern over working myself into the position of not having the option to be bored because I’m probably dead or I’ve murdered one of the idiots that works for me and I’m in jail. I enjoy what I do, but I took over the lead role way too early in life and am definitely burning out on it. The average managing partner in my industry probably is 50-55 when they take over, I did it at 35 while maintaining the largest client book in the firm. I’ve probably got another 6-8 years in me and then I’m doing something else part time at 50-52 and hoping the money doesn’t run out.

[CooterBrown 18001]

I don’t get the boredom thing. Do you not have hobbies? Work has always gotten in the way of what I want to do with my time.

I can’t imagine being so defined by a career that I’d be bored without it. That’s a sad existence.

[mchookem 16318]

i don't think it's sad...i lot of people have a real passion for their work. the saying 'some people live to work and others work to live' is true, i know people in both categories. i was definitely the latter 😋 lol 

[closetohumping 17431]

8 hours ago, mchookem said:

everybody kept telling me i'd get bored but i just passed the two year mark and it hasn't happened yet. i really just don't ever get bored. i spend a lot of time inside my own head, so even if i have nothing to do i'm okay just hanging out there.

with the exception of like the first four months of covid lockdown (during which i had some pretty dark thoughts, like many others i'm sure) it's been exactly what i thought it would be. basically just doing whatever i want whenever i want. 

i don't really know how else to describe it 🤔 ...i enjoy having wide open days and the ability to do anything - doctor, salon, hikes, travel, family visits, gym, cooking, errands, lunches, happy hours, etc. etc. - any time i want. i don't watch tv during the day, but i do listen to music regularly. and visit surly obviously 😁 i like being outside, whether that's floating in the pool or hiking a greenbelt. i like being able to pop down to Port A with my dog for a couple of days by myself.

i really just sort of relish not being beholden to anyone else's schedule or expectations (other than my spouse of course 😊). it's something psychological/emotional, i know that...i have a fiercely independent streak and have always hated the notion of others controlling me. thankfully my spouse understands this and lets me be me.

anyways, something from my childhood/adolescence, family dynamics, etc...i've just sort of ended up as this YOU CAN'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO! person. many don't 'get it', some would think it a pointless existence maybe. but i mean...i do exist, why shouldn't i be able to do it in a way that makes me content? 🙂

 

Yea.  I had two weeks off for Christmas. I wasn’t bored. I can entertain myself

[tbone_ 14105]

I don’t get boredom. If you’re bored it’s because you are a boring person IMO.

[zman13 178]

To pile on...the thought of being bored in retirement has never crossed my mind. It's more of a "how will I accomplish everything I want to before I die" question. There's so much to do. Even just in Austin there's a lot I haven't done yet.

[Dbeasy 15039]

FIRE to me doesn't have to literally mean retire from a career.  It means to do work you want to do on your own terms. I've been doing that for a few years now.  If you want to go get another job, go get one. But get a job you want to do, not a job you have to have. That's one way to avoid boredom. Also, that "job" might be non-traditional. For example, take a temporary role for a few months, make enough money to basically cover whatever your living expenses are for the year, then spend the rest of the year goofing off, traveling, vacationing, golfing, etc.  Then, you aren't even touching the principal of your funds.

It really comes down to what you want out of life, what you value most, and what risk you want, or don't want, of having to work later in life. For many people, they don't care if they have to work in their 50's and 60's in the event that their nest egg doesn't allow them to live the lifestyle they desire.  Others shudder at the thought of having to work in a formal job at an older age in the event that their "master" plan to become insanely wealthy goes awry due to a divorce, bad luck or other life issue.

[troph 24781]

I just closed a deal end of year (as a lawyer) under an extreme challenge because I could. I found out after the fact there were actual money bets on whether I could do it. I can't ever fully retire. But I need to get to a point by 55 (9 years out) where I work 10-2pm 4 days a week and almost not at all when we're traveling. Whatever this FIRE stuff is for others great, but for me before the acronym came around I knew I wanted to make as much as I could working 15-20 hours per week at a high level. Prior to that (right now) I need balance so 35-45 hours of work is fine, doing things I love, building a future and all that but I need down time, travel time to enjoy life now.  I don't want to work at sonic in retirement, even on roller skates, it's not challenging enough.  A certain number is needed to do this comfortably and opportunities for larger pay days are needed as well to keep lifestyle going.  But as I sat at beach bar last week drinking a salty margarita while the rain storm blew through, I thought about how depressed I would be if I became professionally irrelevant.  I don't ever want that and I've only felt like I made it to the top of my game about 5 years ago so I just don't see myself giving it all up to "retire" - work less yes, quit all together no.  Plus, if I do this right, there will be enough in the pot at 60 that one of my sons will want me to teach him the family business so he can take it further. that's another job and an opportunity that I covet, in fact running around doing deals with my son, teaching him how to invest and operate businesses sounds like the greatest swan song I could ever experience.

Edited January 6, 2022 by troph

[CHIEF 5075]

30 minutes ago, troph said:

I just closed a deal end of year (as a lawyer) under an extreme challenge because I could. I found out after the fact there were actual money bets on whether I could do it. I can't ever fully retire. But I need to get to a point by 55 (9 years out) where I work 10-2pm 4 days a week and almost not at all when we're traveling. Whatever this FIRE stuff is for others great, but for me before the acronym came around I knew I wanted to make as much as I could working 15-20 hours per week at a high level. Prior to that (right now) I need balance so 35-45 hours of work is fine, doing things I love, building a future and all that but I need down time, travel time to enjoy life now.  I don't want to work at sonic in retirement, even on roller skates, it's not challenging enough.  A certain number is needed to do this comfortably and opportunities for larger pay days are needed as well to keep lifestyle going.  But as I sat at beach bar last week drinking a salty margarita while the rain storm blew through, I thought about how depressed I would be if I became professionally irrelevant.  I don't ever want that and I've only felt like I made it to the top of my game about 5 years ago so I just don't see myself giving it all up to "retire" - work less yes, quit all together no.  Plus, if I do this right, there will be enough in the pot at 60 that one of my sons will want me to teach him the family business so he can take it further. that's another job and an opportunity that I covet, in fact running around doing deals with my son, teaching him how to invest and operate businesses sounds like the greatest swan song I could ever experience.

Bingo. Don't get so far out out there that you become irrelevant. If shit changes, and you have to go back, be relevant. Stay a player, even if it means following someone else's dreams, you have to choose wisely.

CHIEF

[Chewbacca 7765]

7 minutes ago, CHIEF said:

Bingo. Don't get so far out out there that you become irrelevant. If shit changes, and you have to go back, be relevant. Stay a player, even if it means following someone else's dreams, you have to choose wisely.

CHIEF

Meh, that's why you make sure the pot is big enough when you retire than you never need to worry about going back.  I could give a shit if I become professionally irrelevant.  

[troph 24781]

47 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

Meh, that's why you make sure the pot is big enough when you retire than you never need to worry about going back.  I could give a shit if I become professionally irrelevant.  

actually no, if it's important to you, you keep at it. that's why this retire early song is so annoying to those of us who are working and have our shit together. some of us actually like working, even working hard.  being professionally irrelevant is a nightmare for some of us and for the FIRE crowd to say, well you poor schmuck's don't get it is all full of judgement.  I have had really nice balance in my life since 2016, I was 40 then. I'll manage my life in a way that I stay in balance hopefully until I fall and break my hip and say sayonara for good.  to me that's the ultimate. 

as Mr. Miyagi said, "whole life have balance, everything be better."

[Chewbacca 7765]

1 minute ago, troph said:

actually no, if it's important to you, you keep at it. that's why this retire early song is so annoying to those of us who are working and have our shit together. some of us actually like working, even working hard.  being professionally irrelevant is a nightmare for some of us and for the FIRE crowd to say, well you poor schmuck's don't get it is all full of judgement.  I have had really nice balance in my life since 2016, I was 40 then. I'll manage my life in a way that I stay in balance hopefully until I fall and break my hip and say sayonara for good.  to me that's the ultimate. 

as Mr. Miyagi said, "whole life have balance, everything be better."

To each their own.  Just saying for me, I don't give a shit.  I'll always do something to keep my mind sharp, though.  But it will be something I want to do, not something I have to do to make money (although there will almost certainly be money to be made).

[troph 24781]

1 hour ago, Chewbacca said:

To each their own.  Just saying for me, I don't give a shit.  I'll always do something to keep my mind sharp, though.  But it will be something I want to do, not something I have to do to make money (although there will almost certainly be money to be made).

To each their own is right. 

[UTGrad98 2271]

2 hours ago, troph said:

actually no, if it's important to you, you keep at it. that's why this retire early song is so annoying to those of us who are working and have our shit together. some of us actually like working, even working hard.  being professionally irrelevant is a nightmare for some of us and for the FIRE crowd to say, well you poor schmuck's don't get it is all full of judgement.  I have had really nice balance in my life since 2016, I was 40 then. I'll manage my life in a way that I stay in balance hopefully until I fall and break my hip and say sayonara for good.  to me that's the ultimate. 

as Mr. Miyagi said, "whole life have balance, everything be better."

I'm not sure people are saying that or even think that. If you are one of the few who loves what you do and make a good living, you got it right. I would venture to say most of us FIRE people got it wrong or just had no idea what we were getting into when we signed up. And so we have this drive to move on from the stress and finally see if we can get it right. 

[htown85 159]

 

4 hours ago, troph said:

I just closed a deal end of year (as a lawyer) under an extreme challenge because I could. I found out after the fact there were actual money bets on whether I could do it. I can't ever fully retire. But I need to get to a point by 55 (9 years out) where I work 10-2pm 4 days a week and almost not at all when we're traveling. Whatever this FIRE stuff is for others great, but for me before the acronym came around I knew I wanted to make as much as I could working 15-20 hours per week at a high level. Prior to that (right now) I need balance so 35-45 hours of work is fine, doing things I love, building a future and all that but I need down time, travel time to enjoy life now.  I don't want to work at sonic in retirement, even on roller skates, it's not challenging enough.  A certain number is needed to do this comfortably and opportunities for larger pay days are needed as well to keep lifestyle going.  But as I sat at beach bar last week drinking a salty margarita while the rain storm blew through, I thought about how depressed I would be if I became professionally irrelevant.  I don't ever want that and I've only felt like I made it to the top of my game about 5 years ago so I just don't see myself giving it all up to "retire" - work less yes, quit all together no.  Plus, if I do this right, there will be enough in the pot at 60 that one of my sons will want me to teach him the family business so he can take it further. that's another job and an opportunity that I covet, in fact running around doing deals with my son, teaching him how to invest and operate businesses sounds like the greatest swan song I could ever experience.

Not to hijack the FIRE thread because I think that is an admirable lifestyle and goal, but this post is where I see my fulfillment as well. There are really 2 things I enjoy more than succeeding in my career. Those things are time with my family/friends and golf (at the moment) - but I do not want to retire early and golf every day, and my job provides a healthy work/life balance so I am able to enjoy time with my family.

One of my best friends is a FIRE guy and has been preaching it since college. He will have an enviable lifestyle in 5-10 years, and I couldn’t be happier for him…but I would much rather go in and grind for the next 30 years and experience the highs, the lows, build relationships, and of course try to earn more and more money.  I love travel and vacation, too, but after 3 days at the beach I’m excited to go back to work. 

Edited January 7, 2022 by htown85
Sloppy writing

[hornbri 1390]

On 1/6/2022 at 7:03 PM, troph said:

actually no, if it's important to you, you keep at it. that's why this retire early song is so annoying to those of us who are working and have our shit together. some of us actually like working, even working hard.  being professionally irrelevant is a nightmare for some of us and for the FIRE crowd to say, well you poor schmuck's don't get it is all full of judgement. 

I have never met anyone who talked about “FIRE” in such a why that if you did not agree with them that meant you were just a “poor schmuck's don't get it is all.” 

Quote

I'll manage my life in a way that I stay in balance hopefully until I fall and break my hip and say sayonara for good.  to me that's the ultimate. 

That is the point of FIRE I would say you are not getting. The whole point is to be FI so you can live whatever life you want to live, it becomes 100% your choice instead of you needing the pay check. 

If you have already reached the FI part, then the RE part is optional and early can be 30 or 60, whenever you feel like it or when your life changes. 

[troph 24781]

26 minutes ago, hornbri said:

I have never met anyone who talked about “FIRE” in such a why that if you did not agree with them that meant you were just a “poor schmuck's don't get it is all.” 

That is the point of FIRE I would say you are not getting. The whole point is to be FI so you can live whatever life you want to live, it becomes 100% your choice instead of you needing the pay check. 

If you have already reached the FI part, then the RE part is optional and early can be 30 or 60, whenever you feel like it or when your life changes. 

oh I get it, and you're kinda proving my point telling me I don't get it.  I'm not a FIRE, dave ramsey, susie orman, or whatever else follower.  and those that are often tell me I don't get some part of it. 

I think most people don't like what they do, don't want to work more, so in a bizarre reaction they actually work their asses off and save and save and save for an end goal of RE and don't necessarily enjoy the ride along the way.  I think the exact opposite. love what you do, maximize your personal time really going for it doing the things you love and then you're there.  the money is important but in the end a secondary component. if I was to subscribe to anyone's newsletter it would have been rich dad, poor dad and I think that's a lot more powerful of a paradigm for me than FIRE.  in fact, I don't really see retirement as a goal at all, rather I see doing whatever I want when I want because I've built a life of max flexibility and that life includes "working" in some meaningful capacity until the day I die.  I get you're saying that fits with in FIRE, that's fine but most who subscribe to FIRE are not like me, the only equation that matters to me is FI and that was acheived a lot sooner than most because barring disability, I like what I do (as an owner not an employee) and would just keep doing it.

Edited January 8, 2022 by troph

[hornbri 1390]

1 minute ago, troph said:

I've built a life of max flexibility and that life includes "working" in some meaningful capacity until the day I die. 

I think we are saying the same thing. I am just saying the definition of ”work” does not need to include paycheck. “Work” can be working to save the planet, it can be mountain climbing, it can be closing real estate deals. It is whatever you want. 

[mchookem 16318]

again...

'live to work' or 'work to live', this page alone shows folks in both categories.

the important part is knowing yourself well enough to understand which group you are in so that you can make the correct plan/decision for the happiness of yourself and your family.

my mate and i are going to be challenged in this, tbh... he's significantly older and is still working bc he loves it, he does get easily bored quickly, and he just can't 'be still', he needs chores or projects consistently...but he's also aging and has related health issues (nothing major, just getting old) and he admitted he's getting more and more tired regularly. 

our plan (final retirement for him, selling house, moving to CO, travel for part of the year, etc) is going to be a significant challenge for him...and i do think about it and we talk about it. it worries me, i want to make the right decisions so that he can be as content as we move into the next chapter of our lives as i anticipate being.

i pointed out last night that just within the past week he has shared two seemingly contradictory perspectives and i worry about him figuring them out...one, last weekend he got frustrated just 'laying around' (basically watching football and chilling in his big chair for a few hours), griped about feeling 'useless and bored'. two days later at dinner he remarked how frustrated he was getting regularly with his job and how it was exhausting him daily.

it's going to be a challenge for us, we are basically polar opposites in this regard.🤔

but we both know how different we are from each other at least, and we remain cognizant of how our plans are going to affect each of us. 

we'll figure it out 😊 i will say...it's a lot easier being the one that never gets bored and can basically chill with myself and enjoy most any situation 😄

[Nice Guy Eddie 13506]

41 minutes ago, mchookem said:

again...

'live to work' or 'work to live', this page alone shows folks in both categories.

the important part is knowing yourself well enough to understand which group you are in so that you can make the correct plan/decision for the happiness of yourself and your family.

my mate and i are going to be challenged in this, tbh... he's significantly older and is still working bc he loves it, he does get easily bored quickly, and he just can't 'be still', he needs chores or projects consistently...but he's also aging and has related health issues (nothing major, just getting old) and he admitted he's getting more and more tired regularly. 

our plan (final retirement for him, selling house, moving to CO, travel for part of the year, etc) is going to be a significant challenge for him...and i do think about it and we talk about it. it worries me, i want to make the right decisions so that he can be as content as we move into the next chapter of our lives as i anticipate being.

i pointed out last night that just within the past week he has shared two seemingly contradictory perspectives and i worry about him figuring them out...one, last weekend he got frustrated just 'laying around' (basically watching football and chilling in his big chair for a few hours), griped about feeling 'useless and bored'. two days later at dinner he remarked how frustrated he was getting regularly with his job and how it was exhausting him daily.

it's going to be a challenge for us, we are basically polar opposites in this regard.🤔

but we both know how different we are from each other at least, and we remain cognizant of how our plans are going to affect each of us. 

we'll figure it out 😊 i will say...it's a lot easier being the one that never gets bored and can basically chill with myself and enjoy most any situation 😄

The good news is that many “jobs” are changing in regards to hours required or location. And if part of the allure for the worker is to stay useful or avoid being a couch potato, then they can find many part time jobs online. Perhaps the per-hour wage or salary is lower but that may not be the main need being fulfilled.

im partially already in this mode at 52 even though I’m a w2, 40-hour week employee. Pretty much I’ve defined my job to what I want it to be. Sure there are some elements that I don’t like as much as other parts but overall it’s low stress and the money isn’t that important to me.

Edited January 8, 2022 by Nice Guy Eddie

[troph 24781]

I don’t live to work.  That’s kinda the issue I have with a lot of RE folks like they’ve figured out some secret that those of us who enjoy a balanced life haven’t. I enjoy making money, I actually love it maybe more than sex probably less than travel though. I enjoy being productive. I also enjoyed all 60 days of vacation we took last year. I enjoyed every weekday tennis match I played in and I’ve enjoyed sailing or surfing on Friday’s and tennis practice at 5pm.  I don’t really enjoy picking up my kids from school but that is when they will talk to me so I enjoy that. I’ve enjoyed my mental health days, holidays and the list goes on and on. I don’t live to work simply because I want to be professionally productive for my entire existence. The time to live is now not later, that’s my only ethos when it comes to how I structure my life.  

[Johnny Sack 8397]

On 1/1/2022 at 8:28 PM, TwiceHorn said:

One thing people don't really figure is that, assuming you live to be 85, which is reasonable, that last 5-10 years is going to be pretty easy to live a modest/frugal lifestyle.  Even if you're quite healthy, simple age is going to cut down your travel and extra-cost leisure activities.  And if your health deteriorates in a significant, but not life-destroying way, that's a near certainty.

I sort of unintentionally cut back my work to a very leisurely level, that I could sustain well past normal retirement age, without much interfering with travel and leisure, so I probably will keep working at this level almost indefinitely.  Wife is a bit in a similar situation, but she'll probably quit altogether around 65.

By most reasonable measures, we should be set, but, like Chief, I fear something weird is going to happen.

 

This is true.  Even for wealthy people.

[ATexanAbroad 627]

On 9/28/2021 at 1:36 PM, immamac said:

The FI part of FIRE is why it's for poor people. You have to live within a set of means to subscribe to FIRE. I'd rather just have so much money it's impossible to spend it all in a reasonable way. Then budgeting doesn't make a fuck. If you can't get to that then fuck retiring early, not worth the hit on lifestyle to me. 

 

What if I told you that I spend way less than I ever would in the US as a 33 year old but live like a king in Brazil and South America. I naturally subscribe to FIRE because I think owning liabilities is stupid and money goes far in places outside of America. 

[ATexanAbroad 627]

On 1/8/2022 at 10:46 PM, troph said:

I don’t live to work.  That’s kinda the issue I have with a lot of RE folks like they’ve figured out some secret that those of us who enjoy a balanced life haven’t. I enjoy making money, I actually love it maybe more than sex probably less than travel though. I enjoy being productive. I also enjoyed all 60 days of vacation we took last year. I enjoyed every weekday tennis match I played in and I’ve enjoyed sailing or surfing on Friday’s and tennis practice at 5pm.  I don’t really enjoy picking up my kids from school but that is when they will talk to me so I enjoy that. I’ve enjoyed my mental health days, holidays and the list goes on and on. I don’t live to work simply because I want to be professionally productive for my entire existence. The time to live is now not later, that’s my only ethos when it comes to how I structure my life.  

I agree with this and it's why I left the country at 28. Because these are the years to live. I will most likely be content with living in one place in my 40s/50s/60s+. 

[Chewbacca 7765]

8 minutes ago, ATexanAbroad said:

What if I told you that I spend way less than I ever would in the US as a 33 year old but live like a king in Brazil and South America. I naturally subscribe to FIRE because I think owning liabilities is stupid and money goes far in places outside of America. 

What if I told you I live like a king in the US because I make enough money that I can?

[immamac 42832]

3 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

What if I told you I live like a king in the US because I make enough money that I can?

lol I was about to say the same thing. 

[Chewbacca 7765]

6 minutes ago, immamac said:

lol I was about to say the same thing. 

Yeah, I mean I'm not balling out like @ChiTownDoc (yet - I'm working on it), but I do pretty much what I want, when I want, where I want.  I'll take that for now.

[ATexanAbroad 627]

To each their own I guess, I would rather invest more and see a cost value benefit. The united states is stupidly expensive and I just cant make sense on any of it. $25 dollars for a hamburger and a beer? That is a $5 meal. That is me though, I am a minimalist.

Edited February 4, 2022 by ATexanAbroad

[Dbeasy 15039]

This is a really interesting conversation, seeing the different views of others. And I could have predicted those views well before any of the people shared them here by just looking at their posting history. 

I’ve realized that everyone derives happiness differently in life, and it’s hard for people to see another person’s viewpoint as a result. FIRE makes no sense for the person who derives a high level of happiness from their traditional career as compared to other things in life. You will never “convince” those people because they are already living the life they want to live. 

[Chewbacca 7765]

21 minutes ago, ATexanAbroad said:

To each their own I guess, I would rather invest more and see a cost value benefit. The united states is stupidly expensive and I just cant make sense on any of it. $25 dollars for a hamburger and a beer? That is a $5 meal. That is me though, I am a minimalist.

The states is way expensive, no doubt about that.  But it's also where my family and friends are.  

[Nice Guy Eddie 13506]

3 hours ago, ATexanAbroad said:

To each their own I guess, I would rather invest more and see a cost value benefit. The united states is stupidly expensive and I just cant make sense on any of it. $25 dollars for a hamburger and a beer? That is a $5 meal. That is me though, I am a minimalist.

People like to spend money on different things. We're all different. As an example, I know people that love having a boat. Give me a boat for free, and I'm selling it this afternoon. No desire to own one. Invite me on your boat and I'll buy the gas plus beer. Own a boat? Zero interest. But I know other people like boats or other expensive toys. Which I think is great for them. 

To me, FIRE is the independence aspect. I buy what I want with cash or more accurately with the next credit card payment. Can I really afford a new Lamborghini? Nope but I also don't want one so I'm not missing out.

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

Pretty much only focused on money in my 20s and early 30s. Now mid 30s with a healthy bank account and low key miserable. Money doesn't solve every problem.

[ATexanAbroad 627]

10 hours ago, Loch Ness Monster said:

Pretty much only focused on money in my 20s and early 30s. Now mid 30s with a healthy bank account and low key miserable. Money doesn't solve every problem.

This is the American way

[Snake Diggity 4619]

From 25-35 I was dead set on early retirement.  I HATED working.  Original goal was to retire by 50, and luck has actually made it feasible to move that up to my mid-40s.  But as that point rapidly approaches my attitude is changing; I’m not sure why or how much.  But I’m no longer obsessed with stopping work.  Maybe it’s because I’m scared of running out of money at an age where it’d be very difficult to re-enter the workforce.  Maybe it’s because I have a very low-stress job that offers me tremendous flexibility and decent pay so I’m not as miserable as I was at previous jobs.  Maybe it’s because I’ve had kids and that’s driving me to work as an example to them and to continually increase the advantages/joys they’ll experience.  Maybe I’ve just gotten old and worn down such that the grind doesn’t grind as much.  Anyway, I will almost certainly not be working my current career full time by 60, but I now doubt I will “retire” before 55.  Statistically I am probably already “Financially  Independent”, and that is a great feeling even if I’m not exercising that independence in the form of not working.  Now that I type it out, maybe that’s the reason I’m not hell bent on stopping working anymore: having enough wealth not to “have to” takes away a lot of the misery.

Edited February 5, 2022 by Snake Diggity