Do you FIRE? Financial Independence, Retire Early

[Chewbacca 7765]

27 minutes ago, zman13 said:

I posted this a few days ago but it may have been lost in the Great FIRE War of 2022, so I'm reposting it:

Looking for ideas about health/dental insurance under the age of 65. 

I've looked around the Affordable Care Act website. Lots and lots of plans and it looks like you'll need to go above $1200 per month for something decent. As an example, a lot of plans offer free primary care visits but will only cover 25% of emergency room visits. That's a big potential expense if you go to the ER.

Anyone have any experience shopping around or purchasing plans for the 45 to 65 age group?

I don't have an answer for you, but that's the rub in the whole FIRE movement, IMO.  Health insurance isn't getting any cheaper, that's for sure.

[ATexanAbroad 627]

23 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

I don't have an answer for you, but that's the rub in the whole FIRE movement, IMO.  Health insurance isn't getting any cheaper, that's for sure.

Just dont die... easy

[Chewbacca 7765]

1 minute ago, ATexanAbroad said:

Just dont die... easy

Or get sick.  Or have an accident.  

Easy, peasy.

[ATexanAbroad 627]

2 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

Or get sick.  Or have an accident.  

Easy, peasy.

yea, totes. Were in control of everything.

[Fudge Nuggets 19184]

1 hour ago, zman13 said:

I posted this a few days ago but it may have been lost in the Great FIRE War of 2022, so I'm reposting it:

Looking for ideas about health/dental insurance under the age of 65. 

I've looked around the Affordable Care Act website. Lots and lots of plans and it looks like you'll need to go above $1200 per month for something decent. As an example, a lot of plans offer free primary care visits but will only cover 25% of emergency room visits. That's a big potential expense if you go to the ER.

Anyone have any experience shopping around or purchasing plans for the 45 to 65 age group?

When I hit my number I’m moving to a country that doesn’t put you in bankruptcy if you get sick.  I know you’re looking for a serious answer, but that is my serious response.

[Snake Diggity 4619]

1 hour ago, zman13 said:

I posted this a few days ago but it may have been lost in the Great FIRE War of 2022, so I'm reposting it:

Looking for ideas about health/dental insurance under the age of 65. 

I've looked around the Affordable Care Act website. Lots and lots of plans and it looks like you'll need to go above $1200 per month for something decent. As an example, a lot of plans offer free primary care visits but will only cover 25% of emergency room visits. That's a big potential expense if you go to the ER.

Anyone have any experience shopping around or purchasing plans for the 45 to 65 age group?

Unfortunately I think unless you’re willing to move somewhere with universal healthcare you have to wait to FIRE until you can afford the premiums.  That’s another thing likely to keep me in the workforce for another half-decade.  

[Archer 474]

2 hours ago, zman13 said:

I posted this a few days ago but it may have been lost in the Great FIRE War of 2022, so I'm reposting it:

Looking for ideas about health/dental insurance under the age of 65. 

I've looked around the Affordable Care Act website. Lots and lots of plans and it looks like you'll need to go above $1200 per month for something decent. As an example, a lot of plans offer free primary care visits but will only cover 25% of emergency room visits. That's a big potential expense if you go to the ER.

Anyone have any experience shopping around or purchasing plans for the 45 to 65 age group?

A lot of the FIRE guys I have read will structure their expenses to be low enough to qualify for the max ACA subsidy. I think that’s in the $60-80k range. 
 

If you needed/wanted more than that you could build a large cash war chest to supplement what you earn or capital gains. Think $60k of taxable income plus $40k out of savings for $100k spend. 
 

This assumes pulling out of a tax deferred account with 100% tax, using a taxable account you’d just be taxed on the gains so you’d be able to get more cash for less “income”. 

Edited February 10, 2022 by Archer

[CHIEF 5075]

5 hours ago, Snake Diggity said:

Unfortunately I think unless you’re willing to move somewhere with universal healthcare you have to wait to FIRE until you can afford the premiums.  That’s another thing likely to keep me in the workforce for another half-decade.  

My wife working for the State of Texas for 17 years is what is keeping me in the equation. She will continue to work till 65, if not she will be bored and also crazy, she gets really antsy not working, which has worked to our (my) benefit. Her current employer will cover us till she retires, then the State will pick up our Medicare. Hopefully, I die like my Dad. A heart attack and minimal hospitalization. Happened to his parents, so luckily, I've got that going for me. 

[gmr548 16575]

5 minutes ago, CHIEF said:

Hopefully, I die like my Dad. A heart attack

Avatar checks out.

[mchookem 16318]

1 hour ago, CHIEF said:

My wife working for the State of Texas for 17 years is what is keeping me in the equation. She will continue to work till 65, if not she will be bored and also crazy, she gets really antsy not working, which has worked to our (my) benefit. Her current employer will cover us till she retires, then the State will pick up our Medicare. Hopefully, I die like my Dad. A heart attack and minimal hospitalization. Happened to his parents, so luckily, I've got that going for me. 

ikr

me, knowing my 30 years with the state has given me full healthcare coverage (until Medicare which i'm still a long way from) for life...

 

😊

[Paper_jam 831]

I'm glad the state has good medical and pension, because otherwise I look back at my career (specifically salary and lack of regular COLA) and get really depressed about what I made/make compared to seemingly everyone else in this city (considering education, etc.). If you had told me 25 years ago what my salary would be in 2022, I'd probably say "hey that sounds OK" but back then I didn't know a house in Austin was going to cost a million fucking dollars (more or less).

 

[mchookem 16318]

trust me, i know exactly what you mean...and my career was in IT so the disparity was often exceptionally bitter 😐 and the benefits for people starting now aren't even the same as those of us that started pre 1995 or so (altho the healthcare remains a huge benefit). the benefit perks that used to still attract pretty good candidates despite the salary disparities with the private sector really aren't that great anymore 😒

but yeah...when i went to ERS with a full 'rule of 80' and ready to retire at such a young age, they basically told me i was a unicorn and they don't see that very much anymore lol 😊

[CHIEF 5075]

11 minutes ago, mchookem said:

trust me, i know exactly what you mean...and my career was in IT so the disparity was often exceptionally bitter 😐 and the benefits for people starting now aren't even the same as those of us that started pre 1995 or so (altho the healthcare remains a huge benefit). the benefit perks that used to still attract pretty good candidates despite the salary disparities with the private sector really aren't that great anymore 😒

but yeah...when i went to ERS with a full 'rule of 80' and ready to retire at such a young age, they basically told me i was a unicorn and they don't see that very much anymore lol 😊

My wife bitched the other day that she would have retired from the State this year at 49. I remind her that she wouldn't have pulled down, remotely, the same money that she does now for the last decade. She also wouldn't be pulling the money she does now for the next decade either, as fresh face at 49.

CHIEF

[Not a cat 5651]

On 2/10/2022 at 11:29 AM, zman13 said:

I posted this a few days ago but it may have been lost in the Great FIRE War of 2022, so I'm reposting it:

Looking for ideas about health/dental insurance under the age of 65. 

I've looked around the Affordable Care Act website. Lots and lots of plans and it looks like you'll need to go above $1200 per month for something decent. As an example, a lot of plans offer free primary care visits but will only cover 25% of emergency room visits. That's a big potential expense if you go to the ER.

Anyone have any experience shopping around or purchasing plans for the 45 to 65 age group?

Someone said it upthread, but the ACA is income based, not asset based.  So limit your realized income and you get subsidies.  Basically only sell enough cap gains in a year so you look poor from an income point of view.

It's not right, it's not fair, but those are the current rules.

 

[Archer 474]

56 minutes ago, Not a cat said:

Someone said it upthread, but the ACA is income based, not asset based.  So limit your realized income and you get subsidies.  Basically only sell enough cap gains in a year so you look poor from an income point of view.

It's not right, it's not fair, but those are the current rules.

 

A big key for FIRE and ACA subsidies is having a paid off house. Not having to have “income” to make a mortgage payment helps you stay under the ACA cliffs.  

[txduck87 985]

Someone said it upthread, but the ACA is income based, not asset based.  So limit your realized income and you get subsidies.  Basically only sell enough cap gains in a year so you look poor from an income point of view.
It's not right, it's not fair, but those are the current rules.
 

+1

This is the way


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hornbeliever 712]

On 2/4/2022 at 5:16 PM, Nice Guy Eddie said:

People like to spend money on different things. We're all different. As an example, I know people that love having a boat. Give me a boat for free, and I'm selling it this afternoon. No desire to own one. Invite me on your boat and I'll buy the gas plus beer. Own a boat? Zero interest. But I know other people like boats or other expensive toys. Which I think is great for them. 

To me, FIRE is the independence aspect. I buy what I want with cash or more accurately with the next credit card payment. Can I really afford a new Lamborghini? Nope but I also don't want one so I'm not missing out.

Exactly.  Give me a boat, BMW, corvette, and fur coat today and I'll put it on eBay tomorrow.  After growing up with very limited resources, I immediately did ok for myself out of college.  Bought myself a luxury car since that is what to do in investment banking.  Hated it.  Sold it 6 months later and got a modest car.  Realized I hate worrying about where I park, is it washed, etc.  Rather have a car I don't give a shit about.

On the FIRE front, I ran into old buddy at Pinkertons a year ago.  It was like a Wednesday and he was sweaty and in shorts so I asked him what's up.  He said he did FIRE and retired at 46.  He said he goes on Craigslist whenever he feels like making a little money and that day, he had cleared a field for a real estate development firm.  Made 200 before lunch and said he might or might not work again that week.  He was a management consultant at one of the big time firms making bank and he said he was happier than he has ever been doing odd jobs  rather than traveling to London and pitching some bs ideas.  

His personal financial model said he had to make $36k per year to do what he needs to do.  I am following same thought process and think I'm 6 years out...unless we decide to stick daughter into St John's or something.

[Judge Roybeanbag 11819]

If this stupid ass country would embrace universal healthcare, then lots of people like me would retire, freeing up upward mobility positions for other people.   But naw, it’s socialism.  Instead make me wait until I’m 65 to get socialism.  So fucking dumb.  

[Judge Roybeanbag 11819]

On 2/10/2022 at 1:35 PM, Archer said:

A lot of the FIRE guys I have read will structure their expenses to be low enough to qualify for the max ACA subsidy. I think that’s in the $60-80k range. 
 

If you needed/wanted more than that you could build a large cash war chest to supplement what you earn or capital gains. Think $60k of taxable income plus $40k out of savings for $100k spend. 
 

This assumes pulling out of a tax deferred account with 100% tax, using a taxable account you’d just be taxed on the gains so you’d be able to get more cash for less “income”. 

It also assumes you’re not someone like me, who costs around a million a year in insurance costs to keep alive.  Good luck with trying to insure me on the exchange.  

[Judge Roybeanbag 11819]

On 2/11/2022 at 5:21 PM, Paper_jam said:

“But back then I didn't know a house in Austin was going to cost a million fucking dollars (more or less).

 

$600 per month in property taxes just to live in my house.  Add that to health insurance, homeowners insurance, health insurance, auto insurance and the insurance and property taxes would be 60% of my expenses.  Crazy.  

[Fudge Nuggets 19184]

1 hour ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

If this stupid ass country would embrace universal healthcare, then lots of people like me would retire, freeing up upward mobility positions for other people.   But naw, it’s socialism.  Instead make me wait until I’m 65 to get socialism.  So fucking dumb.  

You sound like you don't believe this is by design.  Unless you work for yourself then we are all serfs, just under a different name.

[Judge Roybeanbag 11819]

6 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

You sound like you don't believe this is by design.  Unless you work for yourself then we are all serfs, just under a different name.

Sure it’s by design.  I’ve been working since I was 14, made plenty of money, but have to keep paying the man, because health insurance.  

[Not a cat 5651]

Today on a group zoom call my boss mentioned that her boss will be in town next Wednesday and we're all expected to go out to happy hour after work.  I responded that my son has a baseball game so I won't be able attend the happy hour.  She went on a big guilting rant how it was just one game and it's stupid I cared that much.  I simply responded with I'm sorry you feel that way but I'm not attending the happy hour.  Awkward silence followed.

I fucking love knowing I can walk at a moment's notice with no concerns.  I might just walk in and quit tomorrow just because she was being such an asshole.  I'll sleep on it and see how I feel in the morning.

To me, that's what FIRE is all about.  Or the FI part of it, at least.

 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13506]

9 hours ago, Not a cat said:

Today on a group zoom call my boss mentioned that her boss will be in town next Wednesday and we're all expected to go out to happy hour after work.  I responded that my son has a baseball game so I won't be able attend the happy hour.  She went on a big guilting rant how it was just one game and it's stupid I cared that much.  I simply responded with I'm sorry you feel that way but I'm not attending the happy hour.  Awkward silence followed.

I fucking love knowing I can walk at a moment's notice with no concerns.  I might just walk in and quit tomorrow just because she was being such an asshole.  I'll sleep on it and see how I feel in the morning.

To me, that's what FIRE is all about.  Or the FI part of it, at least.

 

She went after you because you told the entire group that personal plans take precedence over her request. You could have told her afterwards and avoided that entire exchange.

[Not a cat 5651]

16 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

She went after you because you told the entire group that personal plans take precedence over her request. You could have told her afterwards and avoided that entire exchange.

Then she probably shouldn't have asked us if we were going to make it in a speak now or forever hold your peace manner.  Also this was not a huge group call where that approach made sense.  Smaller group so I just responded I couldn't make it.

[Snake Diggity 4619]

49 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

She went after you because you told the entire group that personal plans take precedence over her request. You could have told her afterwards and avoided that entire exchange.

That’s bullshit.  Any company that wants to openly voice that after-hours company events should take precedence over family time can rightly get fucked.  The days of expecting anything more from employees that wasn’t explicitly outlined during the hiring/contracting process are over.  Unemployment is under 4% and demographics point to the potential that it might never be double digits again.  It’s great that NAC has the means to walk if he doesn’t like it, but really nobody should have to put up with that shit, and I don’t think people will moving forward; too many other jobs out there.  Fuck the man.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13506]

1 hour ago, Not a cat said:

Then she probably shouldn't have asked us if we were going to make it in a speak now or forever hold your peace manner.  Also this was not a huge group call where that approach made sense.  Smaller group so I just responded I couldn't make it.

Your argument is that she started it?

36 minutes ago, Snake Diggity said:

That’s bullshit.  Any company that wants to openly voice that after-hours company events should take precedence over family time can rightly get fucked.  The days of expecting anything more from employees that wasn’t explicitly outlined during the hiring/contracting process are over.  Unemployment is under 4% and demographics point to the potential that it might never be double digits again.  It’s great that NAC has the means to walk if he doesn’t like it, but really nobody should have to put up with that shit, and I don’t think people will moving forward; too many other jobs out there.  Fuck the man.

I didn't say he was wrong to decline. I said he wrong to go after his boss on a group call.

And don't all after-hours or business trips take precedence over family time, to some extent?

[Snake Diggity 4619]

47 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Your argument is that she started it?

I didn't say he was wrong to decline. I said he wrong to go after his boss on a group call.

And don't all after-hours or business trips take precedence over family time, to some extent?

The point is, there should be no after-hours or business trips that aren’t explicitly discussed during the hiring/contracting process.  And if there are, the expectation from the company should be that they are completely voluntary with no guilt/pushback whatsoever.

[tbone_ 14105]

I routinely skip work evening hhs/dinners/etc. because of family duty or I just don’t want to go. Probably about 50/50. You want to socialize with me, best to make it coffee or a lunch.

I don’t make a big deal about but they can all lump it if they don’t like it. No one has ever said a word.

[fattyflattie 4639]

40 minutes ago, Snake Diggity said:

The point is, there should be no after-hours or business trips that aren’t explicitly discussed during the hiring/contracting process.  And if there are, the expectation from the company should be that they are completely voluntary with no guilt/pushback whatsoever.

Lol wut?  I’m assuming this is industry specific.  I’ve been expected to be avail 24/7 since I entered workforce. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13506]

I agree that an employer shouldn't ask for unreasonable demands especially depending on your role/level. And they shouldn't make the employee feel guilty if the employee declines. However its unreasonable for an employer to detail every time requests during the hiring process. 

Employers should also expect pushback if a request is asked with little notice.

With that being said, employees should also realize that they're being paid to work and there are sacrifices at times. It's very Gen Z to refuse any request that is outside of 8-5.

Side note: I'm Gen X, and our parents rarely came to any sporting event. We were lucky if our parents dropped us off at the ballpark on their way to the bar.  I played jr and high school basketball with the same 10 guys for 6 years. I only regularly saw the parents of 2 of my teammates over those 125+ games. I think some of the parents never showed up including mine. I only occasionally cry into my pillow about that these days.

[hornbri 1390]

1 hour ago, fattyflattie said:

Lol wut?  I’m assuming this is industry specific.  I’ve been expected to be avail 24/7 since I entered workforce. 

Times are changing, it was always like that for me in the tech industry but now more and more people are taking the stance that work time and home time should not interfere with each other, with unemployment so low and the great resignation happening employees have the leverage to do so. 

It seems much healthier to me then how I worked my career (24/7)

[Snake Diggity 4619]

1 hour ago, fattyflattie said:

Lol wut?  I’m assuming this is industry specific.  I’ve been expected to be avail 24/7 since I entered workforce. 

I assume you work in an industry mostly full of rubes/conservatives working in rural areas #nocr.  Employees across all industries have more leverage than ever and it is not going away.  The vast majority of young people are being raised with an entirely different view of work compared to previous generations and they are not gonna put up with the bullshit (good for them).  Being available to your job 24/7 these days is reserved for suckers or executives.  I hope you’re the latter.

[gmr548 16575]

Lol wut?  I’m assuming this is industry specific.  I’ve been expected to be avail 24/7 since I entered workforce. 

This is not the flex you think it is

[Snake Diggity 4619]

6 minutes ago, Snake Diggity said:

I assume you work in an industry mostly full of rubes/conservatives working in rural areas #nocr.  Employees across all industries have more leverage than ever and it is not going away.  The vast majority of young people are being raised with an entirely different view of work compared to previous generations and they are not gonna put up with the bullshit (good for them).  Being available to your job 24/7 these days is reserved for suckers or executives.  I hope you’re the latter.

Edit to add: there are some professionals (teachers, doctors, social workers, etc.) who are available 24/7 out of devotion to a higher cause.  I would not label them rubes/suckers.  But I would also encourage them to unite against the forces taking advantage of them even if means temporarily sacrificing those they truly serve.

Edited April 21, 2022 by Snake Diggity

[bluto 4912]

Approaching late 30s, white collar jobs since college, and only ppl I know who do the 24/7 shit is if they are in medical field with actual emergencies. Sure there are long hours on occasion, but outside of normal biz hours the man can get fucked

[Nice Guy Eddie 13506]

This conversation started with an employee effectively telling their boss and their boss' boss to f-off with their happy hour. Not exactly a worker's right issue.

It's not unheard of for a visiting exec/director to want a dinner or happy hour with their team. 

If anyone is sitting around with the employee agreement on-the-ready to protest, you should realize where your career is headed. And you should look to be a contractor where no one cares about you, including learning your name.

 

[hornbri 1390]

6 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

This conversation started with an employee effectively telling their boss and their boss' boss to f-off with their happy hour. Not exactly a worker's right issue.

It's not unheard of for a visiting exec/director to want a dinner or happy hour with their team. 

If anyone is sitting around with the employee agreement on-the-ready to protest, you should realize where your career is headed. And you should look to be a contractor where no one cares about you, including learning your name.

 

To be fair, he said he wound not go to ONE happy hour, not that he would never go to a HH/Dinner. He had plans already, no boss should expect a employee to choose a happy hour event over family. That is entirely different from some emergency that he needs to do work for. 

I was the the visiting exec/director on many trips, I always invited the local team to dinner and I never gave two shits if they said they had a previous obligation and could not go and I sure as shit could not imagine making not going to a happy hour a career shiter. 

Edited April 21, 2022 by hornbri

[Fudge Nuggets 19184]

59 minutes ago, bluto said:

Approaching late 30s, white collar jobs since college, and only ppl I know who do the 24/7 shit is if they are in medical field with actual emergencies. Sure there are long hours on occasion, but outside of normal biz hours the man can get fucked

In oil and gas if something under your scope goes tits up you're going to be expected to deal with it no matter what time.  When the company is paying a spread rate in excess of $1MM per day shit can't always wait until 8:00 on Monday morning.  Thankfully those situations are very few and far between in my area.

It hasn't happened in over 15 years, but if a well planner decides they want some simulations run or a cost estimate put together for a well we might drill two years from now and it's the weekend or a holiday, they can get proper fucked.

[Snake Diggity 4619]

43 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

This conversation started with an employee effectively telling their boss and their boss' boss to f-off with their happy hour. Not exactly a worker's right issue.

It's not unheard of for a visiting exec/director to want a dinner or happy hour with their team. 

If anyone is sitting around with the employee agreement on-the-ready to protest, you should realize where your career is headed. And you should look to be a contractor where no one cares about you, including learning your name.

 

Give me a fucking break.  Sure, it’s not “unheard of” for visiting execs to invite employees out.  But it sure as shit shouldn’t be expected that all employees attend, especially if that expectation wasn’t set before the employee was hired.

You are operating under the old way, where employers made the rules and we were all “lucky to have a job”.  Where kissing ass was required for survival, because the boomers ahead of you did it and set that expectation.  In most workplaces, THOSE DAYS ARE OVER.   There are more jobs than workers and the workers that are available don’t give one runny fuck what corporate wants; they’re out for themselves because they’ve realized companies don’t really give a fuck about them.  So shove your ad hoc happy hour up your ass, I’m going to my kids game.  In fact, fuck you for even insinuating this is required.  Don’t like it?  Kiss my fucking ass and good luck finding my replacement without overpaying.

The tables are turning and I am all here for it.

Edited April 21, 2022 by Snake Diggity

[immamac 42832]

37 minutes ago, Snake Diggity said:

Give me a fucking break.  Sure, it’s not “unheard of” for visiting execs to invite employees out.  But it sure as shit shouldn’t be expected that all employees attend, especially if that expectation wasn’t set before the employee was hired.

You are operating under the old way, where employers made the rules and we were all “lucky to have a job”.  Where kissing ass was required for survival, because the boomers ahead of you did it and set that expectation.  In most workplaces, THOSE DAYS ARE OVER.   There are more jobs than workers and the workers that are available don’t give one runny fuck what corporate wants; they’re out for themselves because they’ve realized companies don’t really give a fuck about them.  So shove your ad hoc happy hour up your ass, I’m going to my kids game.  In fact, fuck you for even insinuating this is required.  Don’t like it?  Kiss my fucking ass and good luck finding my replacement without overpaying.

The tables are turning and I am all here for it.

this is such a sad view of the world, and honestly one that will be the demise of the American economy. It is the employers fault first for not having wages follow productivity and profit, but it's also a dangerous thing to say that your skill is really a skill if there are so many people that can do it. People are talking about white collar work like flipping burgers at mcdonalds, if that's really the case there is bad news on the horizon, because if any dumbass can do it then they will just move that job somewhere else. 

[Snake Diggity 4619]

2 minutes ago, immamac said:

this is such a sad view of the world, and honestly one that will be the demise of the American economy. It is the employers fault first for not having wages follow productivity and profit, but it's also a dangerous thing to say that your skill is really a skill if there are so many people that can do it. People are talking about white collar work like flipping burgers at mcdonalds, if that's really the case there is bad news on the horizon, because if any dumbass can do it then they will just move that job somewhere else. 

Wanting the common person to have the leverage to be able to demand dignity and respect, and to not feel guilty about prioritizing his family and passions over his work is a sad worldview?  Whatever dude.

Immigration is a wildcard that might turn the tables back, but the people who want to return to the old ways are generally anti-immigrant.  We will certainly continue to see outsourcing and automation replace the American worker, but I still expect the worker supply/demand equation to heavily favor the worker.

And your comment denigrating burger flippers says plenty.  Why should the burger flipper not have dignity?  In the new way, the “skill” is the willingness to work.  The actual task doesn’t matter, because information is available such that the gap between white collar and blue collar has narrowed to almost nothing.

[immamac 42832]

40 minutes ago, Snake Diggity said:

Wanting the common person to have the leverage to be able to demand dignity and respect, and to not feel guilty about prioritizing his family and passions over his work is a sad worldview?  Whatever dude.

Immigration is a wildcard that might turn the tables back, but the people who want to return to the old ways are generally anti-immigrant.  We will certainly continue to see outsourcing and automation replace the American worker, but I still expect the worker supply/demand equation to heavily favor the worker.

And your comment denigrating burger flippers says plenty.  Why should the burger flipper not have dignity?  In the new way, the “skill” is the willingness to work.  The actual task doesn’t matter, because information is available such that the gap between white collar and blue collar has narrowed to almost nothing.

The fact that you think willingness to work is the barrier to entry is indicative of why your world view is sad. 

[Snake Diggity 4619]

4 minutes ago, immamac said:

The fact that you think willingness to work is the barrier to entry is indicative of why your world view is sad. 

You sound like an old mid level manager.

[fattyflattie 4639]

2 hours ago, Snake Diggity said:

I assume you work in an industry mostly full of rubes/conservatives working in rural areas #nocr.  Employees across all industries have more leverage than ever and it is not going away.  The vast majority of young people are being raised with an entirely different view of work compared to previous generations and they are not gonna put up with the bullshit (good for them).  Being available to your job 24/7 these days is reserved for suckers or executives.  I hope you’re the latter.

O&G. Located in Energy Corridor. 

2 hours ago, gmr548 said:

This is not the flex you think it is

Who would ever think that’s a flex?  We manage 24 hour ops with high dollar hourly vessels.  Just an expectation that’s been at every stop since I started my career ~15 years ago.   

[gyroprotagonist 2592]

context is key and you might have to weigh some different factors here

- is getting face time with the boss' boss going to help you out if you want to climb the corp ladder?  networking helps out a ton when advancing.  

-  the boss was giving a week's notice to everyone which seems fair to try and plan around it and make best effort to join.

the boss saying anything other than "well, ok. please take a closer look to see if you can make it.  it's important for xyz reasons to be there" seems out of bounds.  Going on a rant about it...gtfo with that shit.  if it was for a client, i can see being volantold to show up.

I also don't get the side chiming in like the boss asked you perform ritual sacrifice on your children for the betterment of corporate profits.  not sure i have ever seen a corp contract that would even think to include "must attend corp happy hours".  normally, that's sorta viewed as perk.  i like free booze.

but once the boss cast the die by going off on a rant in front of everyone, unless i really needed to get face time with the boss' boss, it would be a hard pass.

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

Everyone is missing the point. She (boss) wants to bang @Not a cat and he missed the signal.

[immamac 42832]

8 minutes ago, Snake Diggity said:

You sound like an old mid level manager.

Fuck it, you are right it will not be the downfall of the American worker. It's actually the resurgence of the American worker. 

[Chewbacca 7765]

59 minutes ago, Snake Diggity said:

 The actual task doesn’t matter, because information is available such that the gap between white collar and blue collar has narrowed to almost nothing.

You think because information is available that actual skills mean nothing?  Lulz.

[DaysOff 7943]

Working is for suckers.