population decline

[High Plains Drifter 11028]

On 1/21/2024 at 8:07 PM, YGIFS said:

For many families, it's ideal.  For others, it's a nightmare.  Multi generational living works in places where people don't live as long and/or don't suffer through many, many years of pain due to shitty lifestyles.  But it's not inherently incompatible with American cultural expectations and norms.  Our cultural expectations and norms just changed and created the withdrawal from multi-generational living.  There are certainly larger countries than us, but two things we did faster than any other nation on Earth---we spread the fuck out at light speed when we got the chance.  Making it, not a cultural incompatibility but a geographic impossibility.  And the fucking second we hit the economic jackpot in the middle of the 20th century, the first thing we did was figure out a way to house older people somewhere besides our spare bedroom.  We're from cultures of multi-generational living as a nation of immigrants.  Italian, Hispanic, Irish, Nordic, Asian, and even German to an extent.  It's in our heritage and blood.  But we have two things our motherlands/fatherlands didn't.  A massive, massive swarth of land and the economic/healthcare to look at our aged parents who have 20 years left of expensive living left to do as unhealthy as they are and say, "Fuck it, here's Green Grove...it's not a nursing home Ma!...it's a retirement community!"  neither of the solutions is ideal, we were just playing the hand we were dealt with land and money.  That's all most of population comes down to anyway...land and money. 

Population Decline concern is a dog whistle for other bullshit and well fucking know it so let's quit beating around the bush and move the thread.  I lead a somewhat interesting life and can take or leave most people.  Who in the ever-living-fuck do some of you come into contact with on a regular basis that you walk away thinking, "Oh yes, we absolutely need a million more like he/she"???  Our species is 90% dead weight.  You have some fucking secrete Okra farm needs tending?  We're done.  That's it.  We did the thing that gets us to the thing.  We have the same number of great innovators, great leaders, great artists, great minds at 8 billion as we had at 2 billion.  Not per capita mind you, just as a gross number.  This is it.  Y'all want more white people shopping at Dollar General who hold your belief system sacred, that's on you.  Don't expect the rest of us with a clue to give fuck one about your moronic ideologic paradise.  You want more people for the same reason you want to Evangelize christianity or a political orthodoxy or economic doctrine or conspiracy theory engagement.  Because it validates you and makes you warm.  The world is cold, and it should be.  Let the conductors drive the locomotive again.  With any luck, we'll go off a fucking cliff.

 

First paragraph, meh. I give it a C-

Second paragraph, nice rant-- solid A

 

 

Edit: Speaking of Dollar General--

I will walk ten miles before shopping at Dollar General, but wife insisted we stop by there yesterday for a few things. Out of morbid curiosity, I went in with her. Its been years since I've been in one. 

Horrifying. Absolutely horrifying. Anybody who thinks we need more people needs to spend more time in a Dollar General. I came out of there rooting for the next virus. 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 2 by High Plains Drifter

[YGIFS 19449]

I’m a B student, so this tracks.  
 

I love our little online community.  I love my real life neighborhood.  I love Austin. I love Texas.  I love the United States.  And I love this pale blue dot we call home, suspended in a beam if sunlight.  But I have never once thought, “oh yeah, we totally need more stupid white people.”  
 

 

[Samson's Wig 3191]

17 hours ago, YGIFS said:

I’m a B student, so this tracks.  
 

I love our little online community.  I love my real life neighborhood.  I love Austin. I love Texas.  I love the United States.  And I love this pale blue dot we call home, suspended in a beam if sunlight.  But I have never once thought, “oh yeah, we totally need more stupid white people.”  
 

 

White people make up what, 10% of the earth's population?  I don't see why we make such a fuss over such a tiny group.  They could multiply like rabbits for a couple of centuries and still be an afterthought.

[YGIFS 19449]

I dunno, actually.   I think it's probably more than 10% though just because of the U.S., Russia, and Europe.  Most "White" people though, are much more mixed race than they care to admit.  I'm DNA-speaking, 50% Swabian Lutheran and 50% Sephardic Hispanic/Iberian Jew.  But as you indicate, it's the people that think they are Pure-Whitebread Master Race that are the worst.  We don't need any more of them, but to your point-but yeah---we could easily onboard another few hundreds million Caucasians without any trouble.  But the issue is the white breeders tend to be the worst fucking people...

[Samson's Wig 3191]

[Schulz2.0 28951]

South Korea's birth rate down to 0.72. Ouch.

[Brisketexan 105061]

4 minutes ago, Schulz2.0 said:

South Korea's birth rate down to 0.72. Ouch.

If correlation = causation, I think we can safely say that the ruination of humanity is.....boy bands.

[tbone_ 14109]

Correlation does not equal causation. Your conclusion is still correct though.

[Make em eat Taco Bell 1549]

population decline? then why is the rent so damn high? seriously. 

Same goes for car prices and everything else in the consumer universe.  Inflation means lack of supply / too much demand right? Has Supply dwindled and Demand jacked up??

[Cum Rocket 136]

6 minutes ago, Make em eat Taco Bell said:

population decline? then why is the rent so damn high? seriously. 

Same goes for car prices and everything else in the consumer universe.  Inflation means lack of supply / too much demand right? Has Supply dwindled and Demand jacked up??

You’re absolutely right that the demographic situation in most developed nations is deflationary. Thus, long term, the money printer must brrrt.  

Edited March 9 by Cum Rocket

[Make em eat Taco Bell 1549]

23 minutes ago, Cum Rocket said:

You’re absolutely right that the demographic situation in most developed nations is deflationary. Thus, long term, the money printer must brrrt.  

so wtf explains the housing price superspike, especially with rising mortgage rates??

[Texas Jeff 1944]

49 minutes ago, Make em eat Taco Bell said:

so wtf explains the housing price superspike, especially with rising mortgage rates??

Probably lots of little things.  It takes a long time for population decreases at the bottom to result in decreased housing demand.

When interest rates went low, I would bet lots of wealthy folks purchased a 2nd home.  Others bought a new home but kept their old one and AirBnB'ed it.

Many people that might want to move now have no financial incentive to do so.  Think of older owners who have a large unrealized cap gain in their house.  If they sell, they will have a big income tax bill and, in Texas, the property tax on what they buy might go up even if they buy a smaller place.  Why move to a smaller place with higher property taxes and pay a big income tax bill to do so?

Even those that might want to move up and build a nice custom expensive home may not have the incentive.  Why give up their 30 yr 2.5 pct loan to buy a bigger house at 6 percent?

Lots of folks are staying put in their current housing rather than moving up or into retirement housing, or own a nice vacation house with a nice low mortgage.  That doesn't help supply.

[F250 28764]

On 2/28/2024 at 10:10 AM, Brisketexan said:

If correlation = causation, I think we can safely say that the ruination of humanity is.....boy bands.

With the exception being Menudo.

 

[3 Stacks 9]

 

[YGIFS 19449]

Women are no longer conditioned to believe that there is shame in not getting married young and breed stock.  Film at 11.  

They want educations and careers and robust lives.  How odd. 

Sarcasm aside though, this kinda ties into the inclining women in higher ed while male enrollment is declining.  We're already seeing the results of way too many young men with no prospects for long-term relationships/fatherhood.  Ultimately, it's for the best.  But those fuckers tend to lash out a bit.  Or so history tells us.  

Anyway, pos rep for the article.  Forwarded it to my wife who digs this kinda stuff because she came from a family where her parents and their siblings, on average had ~4 kids each.  She is one of four, and while she has two daughters, her next two sisters have none, and the youngest would like to start trying but it also enjoying her new marriage and traveling and building a pretty solid career.  My oldest has never once mentioned "dream wedding" or meeting a Prince.  She talks about being a dancer, a musician, or an astronaut.  Between the two girls as a sucker for babies, I'd like one grandkid.  Other than that, they can do whatever the hell they want, church and repopulation be dammed.  

[CHIEF 5076]

A lot of young women have become bossy and entitled. I know CHIEF Jr.'s last girlfriend was. One of his best friends just broke up with his fiancé', they had bought a house together. He said it was because of her uncompromising, her way or the highway approach to any disagreement. With divorce rates at 50% and young men loosing their house, kids, and half their retirement, they are reluctant to commit to such an arrangement. CHIEF Jr. and all of his well educated friends that are knocking down high five and low six figure incomes are looking to own their own houses, and getting prenups before getting married.

CHIEF

[Brisketexan 105061]

2 hours ago, 3 Stacks said:

 

Interesting piece, with some good points.  I think I ultimately agree with the thesis, although I do think the author misses the mark in that he points his finger in a single ideological direction, which - ironically - misses the point that the problems here are BROAD AND SYSTEMIC.  That is, they are not solely the result of "leftist cultural elitism."  That DOES play a role -- being out of touch and not realizing all that our broad society has to offer is a big blind spot and failing.  But using to the topic of decline in religious activity as a specific data point, there's also culpability from the social/political right: a shitload of young people don't want to associate with religious institutions because those institutions are vocally mean and exclusionary (a double turnoff: people don't want to associate with those types of folks, and they also aren't so hip on the hypocrisy of "loving Christians" being mean and exclusionary).

Pointing a finger solely in one direction is counter-productive.  The metropolitan liberal elite miss and devalue some very important things; a broader perspective, realizing that multiple "traditional" things have essential utility and value would be helpful.  The exclusionary and hostile American right is needlessly cruel and has elevated negative values (hurting the "other," and yes, pointlessly devaluing and denigrating minorities and the urban personal and economic culture (no, farmers are not the "only real and honest Americans")).  Being more open and accepting of different ideas and approaches, and the benefits they can bring to individuals and a society as a whole, is a prescription that should be issued to every person in our society.

By the way, I'm hopeful for precisely none of that.  We're all-in on our current path, and only becoming MORE entrenched, not less (so, I disagree with that part of the thesis of the article.  We may be seeing the data that the decline of the family unit is not good for us, and our social isolation is not good for us, but not only are we not doing anything to fix it, we're dedicated to making it worse).

[Texzilla588 769]

China’s population could halve within the next 45 years, new study warns

 

• Researchers say previous estimates may have severely underestimated the pace of demographic decline
• Census data says the birth rate was 1.3 children for each woman last year – well below the level needed to stop the population from falling

https://www.forbes.com/sites/stuartanderson/2020/09/03/chinas-population-to-drop-by-half-immigration-helps-us-labor-force/?sh=1e07afaa3d65
 

Table 1: Projections for Top 10 Countries by Population

Country	2017	2100	Percentage Change
China	1,413 million	732 million	-48%
India	1,381 million	1,093 million	-21%
United States	325 million	336 million	3%
Indonesia	258 million	229 million	-11%
Pakistan	214 million	248 million	-16%
Brazil	212 million	165 million	-22%
Nigeria	206 million	791 million	284%
Bangladesh	157 million	81 million	-48%
Russia	146 million	106 million	-27%
Japan	128 million	60 million	-53%

 
I grew up in a world where everyone was concerned about overpopulation.  It's so weird seeing that it is accepted wisdom now that we are headed the other direction in the developed world.  We're still going up because of third world trajectory, but it is only a matter of time until those countries start on this trajectory too.  It's wild to think about this future.  Will finding housing in China be an absolute joke in 2100?  Which of these many empty apartments do you want? Will the transition stage be marked by abandoned buildings everywhere?  Will the olds everywhere starve as there aren't enough yoots to fund pensions?

The support system is a huge problem in China. It’s a fucked society due to multigenerational single child policies. Think about this: except in rare cases no one knows what a sister or brother is, an aunt or uncle. Everyone is an only child.

This has made them exceedingly spoiled. Business meetings can often be more like an 8th grade classroom. Because 50+ million more girls were aborted they have a gender disparity unknown in human history. The women are extremely picky and highly selective with their suitors.

And despite being a Communist state they are structured with a high reliance on the old traditional family structure of young folks supporting the old folks. Doesn’t work with one child with potentially two parents and four grandparents on their shoulders.

[troph 24781]

3 hours ago, CHIEF said:

A lot of young women have become bossy and entitled. I know CHIEF Jr.'s last girlfriend was. One of his best friends just broke up with his fiancé', they had bought a house together. He said it was because of her uncompromising, her way or the highway approach to any disagreement. With divorce rates at 50% and young men loosing their house, kids, and half their retirement, they are reluctant to commit to such an arrangement. CHIEF Jr. and all of his well educated friends that are knocking down high five and low six figure incomes are looking to own their own houses, and getting prenups before getting married.

CHIEF

Did those women you reference play team sports? I actually have a theory. It’s not mine, a retired successful woman who owned a killer company couldn’t figure out why her women employees were so bad then she decided to only hire those that played team sports growing up and it solved a lot of her problems.

[Wally Fairway 5541]

22 minutes ago, troph said:

Did those women you reference play team sports? I actually have a theory. It’s not mine, a retired successful woman who owned a killer company couldn’t figure out why her women employees were so bad then she decided to only hire those that played team sports growing up and it solved a lot of her problems.

 

[TKthunder2 4985]

Women used to care about finding a man who could provide and protect.

Our society is generally safe (most crime at historic lows, despite steep rise in property crime) so they don’t need protectors.

More women than men are getting advanced degrees and able to support themselves.

As a father of a young daughter these are great advancements which are generally beneficial to all.

That being said, what is out of whack is women’s understanding of their own priorities. Only 5% of women claim they do NOT want children, however more and more are waiting until their mid to late thirties to pursue that goal.

As a country we do a great job of showcasing women’s empowerment in the workforce, but we do a horrible job of explaining the basics of fertility.

Honestly this is something that should be required to be taught in high school, reviewed regularly by OBGYN’s with their patients, and something the government should have running on PSAs.

If knowing the data, you CHOOSE to wait or not have kids until later then that is okay, but the number of 30 years olds who don’t realize they have already lost 90% of their eggs is astounding and that should not be the norm.

Edited April 20 by TKthunder2

[3 Stacks 9]

On 4/19/2024 at 8:42 AM, YGIFS said:

Women are no longer conditioned to believe that there is shame in not getting married young and breed stock.  Film at 11.  

They want educations and careers and robust lives.  How odd. 

Robust lives, yet apparently less fulfilling. American women’s mental health has never been worse. 

[CHIEF 5076]

21 hours ago, troph said:

Did those women you reference play team sports? I actually have a theory. It’s not mine, a retired successful woman who owned a killer company couldn’t figure out why her women employees were so bad then she decided to only hire those that played team sports growing up and it solved a lot of her problems.

No its even worse, cheerleaders.

My niece played travel club softball, and she has been married for about two years with a new baby, and is in a stable committed relationship. I believe your friend may be on to something. Having to compromise on team decisions, and work within that team provides a lot of maturity and growth.

When CHIEF Jr.'s girlfriend would get bent out of shape he would tell her, "you are just like a toddler throwing herself to the floor in a candy store, you are an embarrassment to be around." The beauty/crazy matrix is for real.

CHIEF

[YGIFS 19449]

1 hour ago, 3 Stacks said:

Robust lives, yet apparently less fulfilling. American women’s mental health has never been worse. 

Probably due to the mental status of American 'Men.'  Yeah, total coincidence that they the generation they finally get access to higher education, career advancement, not having to tolerate sexual harassment, realize the constrains foisted upon them by established institutions and organized religion, and get control over their own bodies............we turned right around and slammed them back down.  Total fucking coincidence.  

If you think the mental health of women was better in 1824 or 1924 than in 2024......it's because any woman that dared answer a mental health questionnaire had the shit beat out of her for talking outta school.  

Women have been having babies after 35 for centuries.  You don't get to 5, or 6, or 10 kids unless you're having children well into your 30's.  Do the fucking maths.  My maternal grandmother was 40 when she had her last kid of 9.  If they just want 1 or 2, they can still safely do it between 35-40.  We simply don't need as many people as we used to.  That's just the way societies evolve.  But as irony would have it, the Stupids are breeding like never before.  God bless 'em.  Mike Judge isn't a satirist.  He's a prophet.  

[Armybrat 40822]

Maybe a lot of young adults think how entitled & assholy their own generation seems to be, and don’t want to put up with kids like themselves?

😛

[YGIFS 19449]

Yeah there’s that too.  Having two miniature terrorists in my home because my wife’s Catholic God told her and women like her to be fruitful and multiply isn’t always it’s cracked up to be. I love my two to the moon and back but don’t fault her middle two sisters for not having kids.  At all.  
 

Even with The Lord’s wishes, our species is at best, overrated.  Evil is probably more accurate.  

[Schulz2.0 28951]

15 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

Maybe a lot of young adults think how entitled & assholy their own generation seems to be, and don’t want to put up with kids like themselves?

😛

Kids are a huge time and money sink. There are plenty of young people that see home ownership as a pipe dream in the near future. Most want stuff like that before having kids.

[Armybrat 40822]

We rented apartments for four years before buying a house. 
Had one 3 year old son when we moved in and she dropped another a month later. 
Did that on a teacher’s salary while she was a stay at home mom.

[Schulz2.0 28951]

4 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

We rented apartments for four years before buying a house. 
Had one 3 year old son when we moved in and she dropped another a month later. 
Did that on a teacher’s salary while she was a stay at home mom.

[MonkeyDoughnut 10227]

6 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

We rented apartments for four years before buying a house. 
Had one 3 year old son when we moved in and she dropped another a month later. 
Did that on a teacher’s salary while she was a stay at home mom.

Unfortunately you couldn't afford to do that today.

[Armybrat 40822]

6 minutes ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

Unfortunately you couldn't afford to do that today.

Nope, not in any big metro area.

Small town would be a different story.

[troph 24781]

2 hours ago, CHIEF said:

No its even worse, cheerleaders.

My niece played travel club softball, and she has been married for about two years with a new baby, and is in a stable committed relationship. I believe your friend may be on to something. Having to compromise on team decisions, and work within that team provides a lot of maturity and growth.

When CHIEF Jr.'s girlfriend would get bent out of shape he would tell her, "you are just like a toddler throwing herself to the floor in a candy store, you are an embarrassment to be around." The beauty/crazy matrix is for real.

CHIEF

My 16 year old son is done with the ladies for now. He says they require waaaaaaay too much attention. 

I’m going to tell him he needs to scope out the team sports girls that don’t have time for him. 

[Pancho 44703]

17 hours ago, TKthunder2 said:

Women used to care about finding a man who could provide and protect.

Our society is generally safe (most crime at historic lows, despite steep rise in property crime) so they don’t need protectors.

More women than men are getting advanced degrees and able to support themselves.

As a father of a young daughter these are great advancements which are generally beneficial to all.

That being said, what is out of whack is women’s understanding of their own priorities. Only 5% of women claim they do NOT want children, however more and more are waiting until their mid to late thirties to pursue that goal.

As a country we do a great job of showcasing women’s empowerment in the workforce, but we do a horrible job of explaining the basics of fertility.

Honestly this is something that should be required to be taught in high school, reviewed regularly by OBGYN’s with their patients, and something the government should have running on PSAs.

If knowing the data, you CHOOSE to wait or not have kids until later then that is okay, but the number of 30 years olds who don’t realize they have already lost 90% of their eggs is astounding and that should not be the norm.

WTF? This is not the flex post you think it is. 

What data do you have that shows 30 year olds and older “don’t realize” they’ve lost 90% of their eggs? Is it not highly possible they know the odds are lower at that age but that just so happens to be the age they are personally ready to try? 

Why is it just women not understanding their priorities when just as many men don’t want kids as well and just want to fuck around? 

 

 

[Celery Man 20931]

2 hours ago, CHIEF said:

When CHIEF Jr.'s girlfriend would get bent out of shape he would tell her, "you are just like a toddler throwing herself to the floor in a candy store, you are an embarrassment to be around." The beauty/crazy matrix is for real.

what a gentleman

[TKthunder2 4985]

16 minutes ago, Pancho said:

WTF? This is not the flex post you think it is. 

What data do you have that shows 30 year olds and older “don’t realize” they’ve lost 90% of their eggs? Is it not highly possible they know the odds are lower at that age but that just so happens to be the age they are personally ready to try? 

Why is it just women not understanding their priorities when just as many men don’t want kids as well and just want to fuck around? 

 

 

Flex post? I know multiple women who have said they wanted to wait and others who have froze their eggs, only to be devastated when they were unable to conceive in their 30s. This is very common. Some spent thousands of dollars on fertility treatments, others end up adopting and it works out, but all of them go through significant mental anguish because they believed that it would just happen when they were ready. But that is not reality, and society is actively telling these women that they can have it all, which is true, as long as they understand HOW (which many do not). More education and awareness is the answer, I’m not sure how this is a controversial statement.

[Celery Man 20931]

I think more than society telling women they can have it all, society is telling women to wait until they are ready to have kids. And the bar for kid readiness is fucking high these days.

just to be clear, I think that the solution has to do with the second part

Edited April 20 by Celery Man

[Pancho 44703]

7 minutes ago, TKthunder2 said:

Flex post? I know multiple women who have said they wanted to wait and others who have froze their eggs, only to be devastated when they were unable to conceive in their 30s. This is very common. Some spent thousands of dollars on fertility treatments, others end up adopting and it works out, but all of them go through significant mental anguish because they believed that it would just happen when they were ready. But that is not reality, and society is actively telling these women that they can have it all, which is true, as long as they understand HOW (which many do not). More education and awareness is the answer, I’m not sure how this is a controversial statement.

I’m not saying your example doesn’t happen. You’re just making it seem as if because you know a few women who thought this that means nearly all of them do. You even suggested a class solely for women on this very situation. It’s stereotyping. 

You’re also not accounting for the number of men who a) don’t have the soldiers anymore to conceive, b.) who also may not know about the eggs things, and c.) who either don’t want children or may want them later in life but they themselves can’t. Those aren’t the fault of a woman. 

[Surly Bevo 24908]

One of the problems is this trumped up vague notion of “having it all”. Nobody really “has it all”.   There’s always some trade off to be made somewhere….always. 

Edited April 20 by Surly Bevo

[3 Stacks 9]

4 minutes ago, Surly Bevo said:

One of the problems is this trumped up vague notion of “having it all”. Nobody really “has it all”.   There’s always some trade off to be made somewhere….always. 

Great point. There are no solutions, just trade offs. 

Also wanting to “have it all” in this context to me implies material things. As you get older you realize those things matter less than health and meaningful relationships. None are more important than those between close family. 
 

To me it’s no surprise that as the prominence of the nuclear family declines, mental illness increases. Especially in women. True fulfillment for them doesn’t lie in pursuing money and titles in offices etc. Fighting biology is a losing proposition for most  

 

[Nivek 16918]

This is getting Andrew Tateish.

[YGIFS 19449]

28 minutes ago, Nivek said:

This is getting Andrew Tateish.

Because we all know women don’t know Their bodies, can’t understand biology, and certainly are unable to certainly unable to count down from 500

[TKthunder2 4985]

1 hour ago, Pancho said:

I’m not saying your example doesn’t happen. You’re just making it seem as if because you know a few women who thought this that means nearly all of them do. You even suggested a class solely for women on this very situation. It’s stereotyping. 

You’re also not accounting for the number of men who a) don’t have the soldiers anymore to conceive, b.) who also may not know about the eggs things, and c.) who either don’t want children or may want them later in life but they themselves can’t. Those aren’t the fault of a woman. 

Of course many or most women know and understand this, but many women don’t. You can find ton of those dumb you tube pod cast thing where women saying stupid things. They don’t represent ALL women, however they do represent a portion of women who could use more education and awareness.

The government is running PSAs about how beneficial it is to have a father in the home. Obviously MOST men understand this, but we’re still running these education/awareness campaigns because the hope is to reach the ones who don’t consciously realize this or don’t think about it.

And it’s completely fair to lump men into this conversation however men are still very fertile until their 50s. Men can always find younger woman to procreate with. Biologically speaking, women do not have that option. Either way, education and awareness help with both situations.

[Celery Man 20931]

Unless education and awareness are not the problem, which I think was at least one of the points raised. Women know that they don’t have forever to have children, confusion about that is not why they’ve stopped having children at 23.

 

and yeah the whole topic of fertility etc is gross with dudes who desperately need privilege to have worth

[YGIFS 19449]

1 hour ago, Surly Bevo said:

One of the problems is this trumped up vague notion of “having it all”. Nobody really “has it all”.   There’s always some trade off to be made somewhere….always. 

THis is a good point.  I wasn't 'there' when they started selling this pitch to women in the 60's, 70's, and 80's.  I was alive but I had no idea what the hell was going on (not that I do now).  But you can look back at ads and magazines and movies and it was this magically balanced lifestyle out there for everybody if only...   But it seem, and the stats/polls/anecdotes would bear it out...that there has become a healthy balance, obviously with some tradeoffs, at least for educated women...where they can get degrees/advanced degrees/certifications, have 1-2 kids at a healthy age, be married/partnered/solo, advance in the workplace/start a business, be healthy/mindful/spiritual, etc.  It's a stressful juggling act, but then again-isn't everybody's life regardless of generation?  But the maths proved it out, it is possible, and it is happening.  For about 40 years...they weren't "having it all"...but they certainly had more opportunity, access, and fulfillment.  And by Jack's total lack of surprise, we saw that as a society and said, "Now, now...we can't have any more of that."  And the shitheads went back to work on 'em.  

[ABSR 5308]

2 hours ago, YGIFS said:

Because we all know women don’t know Their bodies, can’t understand biology, and certainly are unable to certainly unable to count down from 500

So you think women say to themselves “Oh my, I am getting my 137th period this week!  According to YGIFS only 363 times left after that to really make it count.  When I get to 350 I really need to think about trying to find a man to procreate with!”

[YGIFS 19449]

It was hyperbole to reflect the arrogant, condescending stupidity of some above posts that women need a special class to wrap their heads around when they may be out of time to procreate.  I picked 500 to reflect 13 cycles a year between ages 13-51.  And because it's a nice round number to use for effect.  I mean, I knew we were in a time where men would be dictating women's reproductive rights, IVF, dictating pregnancy completion despite outlier conditions, birth control, etc.  But we've now truly crossed the rubicon, "Women need to be taught in school that they have a finite number of eggs with which to reproduce."  Yeah, can't wait to see what this twisted sick-fuck misogynist iPhone app looks like.  

[CHIEF 5076]

4 hours ago, Celery Man said:

what a gentleman

When you disregard someone's well-being and DEMAND that they drive to your place because you are lonely at 3am when you have been drinking with your friends, or DEMAND you take them to get something to eat in a foreign country at 2:30 in the morning even though the gas station is across the street and won't open till morning and your vehicle is empty, that is a big line that has been crossed. She created such a scene that it was waking people up.

CHIEF Jr. had an application in for a job that required a Top Secret clearance, a brush with the law would completely have deprived him of that opportunity. She didn't give a shit, killing people while driving drunk was way down her list of bad shit that could happen. Good riddance.

CHIEF

[TKthunder2 4985]

58 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

It was hyperbole to reflect the arrogant, condescending stupidity of some above posts that women need a special class to wrap their heads around when they may be out of time to procreate.  I picked 500 to reflect 13 cycles a year between ages 13-51.  And because it's a nice round number to use for effect.  I mean, I knew we were in a time where men would be dictating women's reproductive rights, IVF, dictating pregnancy completion despite outlier conditions, birth control, etc.  But we've now truly crossed the rubicon, "Women need to be taught in school that they have a finite number of eggs with which to reproduce."  Yeah, can't wait to see what this twisted sick-fuck misogynist iPhone app looks like.  

Have any of you ever watched a PSA? Have you ever seen a PSA and thought Holy Shit I didn’t know that? No? Because generally people on here this site (with some major exceptions) have above average intelligence. Do you think we need PSA about being nice to people, not littering, that fathers are good? No, the majority of people don’t NEED these PSAs because we know these obvious things already.

But still we run them anyway, in hope that young people hear this message early and often for the betterment of society. Argue that PSAs don’t work or are ineffective, but you can’t argue that people don’t know because there are very real examples of smart people making not smart decisions because society tells them there is no rush. For example…

Here is a NYT op ed discussing why having a child later in life is no big deal and a WAPO article about a woman who believed all the rhetoric and ultimately was unable to have the child she always wanted. Maybe she would have trouble conceiving no matter what, but the sentiment that you can have it all on your own timeline is in stark contrast to science/logic/reality.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/05/opinion/prenatal-postpartum.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/national/wp/2018/01/27/feature/she-championed-the-idea-that-freezing-your-eggs-would-free-your-career-but-things-didnt-quite-work-out/

This has nothing to do with men. If a woman chooses not to have a kid then great, power to her. But if she wants a child, she should not start thinking about that at 35 and I’m still not sure how that is a controversial message since it is literally what every OBGYN would tell you.

Edited April 21 by TKthunder2

[YGIFS 19449]

You make some valid points, but if you think a PSA targeted at 35yo women is going to make a difference...tell me you don't know 35yo women without telling me you don't know 35yo women.  

We should probably be having more female posters chime in on this thread instead of our "know it all" attitudes.  But here's my final two points:

1.  Women, not all, but on the whole, can still have viable pregnancies between 30-40 to just have the 1-2 kids they desire.  Yeah, if you're trying to start an agrarian atomic family at 35 with 7 kids...it's gonna be rough.  They already know this between their mothers, their own intuition, sex ed (which I'm sure men will put a stop to in Texas right quick), and the interwebs.  Never mind their peer group.  My wife has been held by friends and sisters when we had our struggles with miscarriages.  And she has held friends and sisters in her arms as they got bad news about pregnancy.  They are far more self-aware and resilient than we ever give them credit for.  We're just dumbass sperm factories that learned to make swords awhile back.  

2.  I have to morbidly admit, i would like to see this series of PSA's launched.  But in B&W with that old-school narrator that did our all our film-strips in middle school.  Guy smoking a cigarette with a skinny tie, "Your Eggs and You, Part I.  Your body is changing ladies, but will betray you later in life unless you find a man to protect you and fulfill your desire to be a complete human by spending the next 20 years making more humans at his behest.  But he will provide for you.  That's the good word from the Lord.  To practice, carry the chicken egg your teacher is passing out now to care for this next school week so you know what it's like to embrace life.  There now, you've got this!"  

[Celery Man 20931]

People who learn things from PSAs still have children young because they think that hot tubs are an effective form of contraception. Of course you can find examples of educated women convincing themselves that it’ll be easier than it is but it may be that rather than simply forgetting to have kids women are making a rational choice. If as a society we want them to make a different choice (and if we are not a piece of shit society) we should make policy changes that impact their decision landscape.

Edited April 21 by Celery Man