French Catholic Church has abused 330K minors since 1950

[Buzzrock 14926]

What is it going to take to abolish the Catholic Church? What if this was a secular organization?

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/french-catholic-church-personnel-sexually-abused-330-000-minors-probe-finds-11633423737?st=qbevgkm7f91ndgd&reflink=article_copyURL_share

[workswithseed 2112]

Hell fire 

[Samson's Wig 3193]

Catholic Church will slowly die in large part due to this scandal, albeit with a handful of child molesting priests holding a giant bag of cash.  The Baptist Church, particularly in Texas, has the same problem with molesting kids and shuffling the offenders around to other churches.  They somehow manage to avoid getting lumped in with the Catholics, though.  I don't understand why.  Baylor admin probably knows.

[Wally Fairway 5569]

11 minutes ago, Samson's Wig said:

Catholic Church will slowly die in large part due to this scandal, albeit with a handful of child molesting priests holding a giant bag of cash.  The Baptist Church, particularly in Texas, has the same problem with molesting kids and shuffling the offenders around to other churches.  They somehow manage to avoid getting lumped in with the Catholics, though.  I don't understand why.  Baylor admin probably knows.

Just to be clear, while the pedo-priest are a huge problem, it is the cover-up, shuffling pedo's to other locations, and the denials that show the whole organization is a crime family.
I say let Italy have Vatican City and make it a museum, sell off all the property (make some of the nicer churches in museums if you like) and let folks find another cult to join.

Full disclosure: I am a cradle Catholic raised in the cult (currently non-practicing) no problem using the church as a way to teach good morals; had an Uncle who was a priest (RIP), close family friends in the clergy, and I went to Catholic school 1-7 grades. But the things that have come to light in the past decade or more show that these people cannot be trusted; and that they hide under their "calling", and use their position of power to control people to think it is just a few problems here and there.

[bolverk 29694]

17 minutes ago, Wally Fairway said:

Just to be clear, while the pedo-priest are a huge problem, it is the cover-up, shuffling pedo's to other locations, and the denials that show the whole organization is a crime family.
I say let Italy have Vatican City and make it a museum, sell off all the property (make some of the nicer churches in museums if you like) and let folks find another cult to join.

Full disclosure: I am a cradle Catholic raised in the cult (currently non-practicing) no problem using the church as a way to teach good morals; had an Uncle who was a priest (RIP), close family friends in the clergy, and I went to Catholic school 1-7 grades. But the things that have come to light in the past decade or more show that these people cannot be trusted; and that they hide under their "calling", and use their position of power to control people to think it is just a few problems here and there.

It sounds like you'd probably fit in well with the typical French person with your relationship to the Church. There was a recent poll that came out showing as of now 51% of the French (traditionally overwhelmingly Catholic) no longer believe in God, but 68% still believe that religion can “contribute to teaching young people positive values: respecting others, tolerance, generosity, and responsibility”.

 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

1 hour ago, Samson's Wig said:

Catholic Church will slowly die in large part due to this scandal, albeit with a handful of child molesting priests holding a giant bag of cash.  The Baptist Church, particularly in Texas, has the same problem with molesting kids and shuffling the offenders around to other churches.  They somehow manage to avoid getting lumped in with the Catholics, though.  I don't understand why.  Baylor admin probably knows.

The Baptist Church is not top down like the Catholics.  Each church is independent and not controlled by a higher organization.

[TwiceHorn 31510]

19 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

The Baptist Church is not top down like the Catholics.  Each church is independent and not controlled by a higher organization.

While this is true, the SBC has enough "control" and knowledge of the problem to largely alleviate it.

[F250 28788]

4 hours ago, Buzzrock said:

 

What is it going to take to abolish the Catholic Church? What if this was a secular organization?

Same thing that happened to USA Gymnastics, Penn State, Ohio State, and BSA*. Law suits and settlements.

 

 

 

BSA is non-secular in the sense that AA is non-secular.

 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

23 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

While this is true, the SBC has enough "control" and knowledge of the problem to largely alleviate it.

I can just speak for my church -- with the caveat that we are moderate for a Baptist church in that we have women deacons -- but the SBC has no control over us.  We pay a small amount for the affiliation.  But that's it.  I only have experience with my church as I grew up Church of Christ and this is the first Baptist church I have been involved in.  We have total autonomy.  Other churches may be different.

[workswithseed 2112]

Weird tangent but the South Park episode about this was good, but i always wondered why use the DMV as the conduit for sexual predators from a government standpoint, when teachers have easier access to kids and does have sex with them.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

You almost have to appreciate the resiliency of the Catholic Church to overcome catastrophic setbacks exposing their hypocrisy. 

[Texas St. Armadillos 1381]

Minors, or miners?

- Louis CK

[HouTex 1887]

I can just speak for my church -- with the caveat that we are moderate for a Baptist church in that we have women deacons -- but the SBC has no control over us.  We pay a small amount for the affiliation.  But that's it.  I only have experience with my church as I grew up Church of Christ and this is the first Baptist church I have been involved in.  We have total autonomy.  Other churches may be different.

Somewhat similarly, the Pope and the Roman bureaucracy do not control the operations of the various diocese throughout the world. They dictate canon law and matters of religious doctrine, but the operations of each diocese is governed by the bishop of that diocese.

[ztejas 43503]

Seems low.

[Hate 20122]

1 minute ago, ztejas said:

Seems low.

Yeah, why cut it off at 1950.  How many millions of kids have been abused by the "Catholic Church" over the last 2000 years.  And like has been mentioned, it isn't just the Catholics.  It's something that I will never understand.  How can there be that many people in the world with this particular incurable "disease"? 

[hookemATL 11793]

[tbone_ 14132]

Biggest scam in human history

[atomheartbevo 89737]

4 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

I can just speak for my church -- with the caveat that we are moderate for a Baptist church in that we have women deacons 

There are Southern Baptists who probably think you all are Godless heathens.

Edited October 5, 2021 by atomheartbevo

[Wally Fairway 5569]

9 minutes ago, tbone_ said:

Biggest scam in human history

Nazi death camps, Pol Pot, slavery (in general), Aggy "traditions", etc - a cult is a cult

[Johnny Sack 8397]

13 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

There are Southern Baptists who probably think you all are Godless heathens.

Maybe so.  I really don't care.  Baptist churches have autonomy.

[Orange&White 5528]

The feds need to step up to the plate and put the religious tax exemptions on the line. 

I'd prefer they be abolished all together but no politician will ever vote for that so it is essentially off the table.

But there needs to be some fine print that says if you, or a member of your clergy, or administration get caught diddling kids or breaking laws, your tax exempt status is revoked permanently. 

Edited October 5, 2021 by Orange&White

[PRONG HORN 3149]

[bolverk 29694]

18 minutes ago, PRONG HORN said:

She got pilloried for that by the media, but it turns out she was right.

[Guest Lobo]

She tore up a photo.  Ten thousands priests tore up boys assholes and throats.  But remember, she’s the bad person. 

[bolverk 29694]

15 minutes ago, Lobo said:

She tore up a photo.  Ten thousands priests tore up boys assholes and throats.  But remember, she’s the bad person. 

Not to mention the horrible abuses at Irish orphanages and homes for unwed mothers that have since been thoroughly investigated and well documented.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/12/ireland-report-appalling-abuse-mother-baby-homes

[staboner 4984]

didn't see that coming

[Dahobbs 17625]

Slackers. 

[WBT 20634]

14 hours ago, Samson's Wig said:

Catholic Church will slowly die in large part due to this scandal, albeit with a handful of child molesting priests holding a giant bag of cash. 

1.3 billion people and the longest continuously operating institution in the world.  I'll take the over on the dying thing.

[Deej 76847]

3 hours ago, staboner said:

didn't see that coming

That's what the altar boys said.

[Deej 76847]

4 hours ago, PRONG HORN said:

There's not a priest that would hit that dude. 

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4976]

14 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

While this is true, the SBC has enough "control" and knowledge of the problem to largely alleviate it.

Not really. They have influence, but not control. Southern Baptist churches are autonomous. If they fire someone because of shenanigans, there is no higher authority to report said shenanigans to. So if the said sacked person moves along to another church they are caught up between a rock and a hard place where they can't exactly accuse them of being a pedophile if there wasn't a conviction without opening themselves up to liability in a libel lawsuit. Like most corporations today, all they can do without exposing themselves to potential ruin is verify employment. 

This is a structural problem with how the church is organized. While there is likely an element that wishes to cover things up in many of the churches, most of them have their hands tied because they can't afford the risk of a lawsuit.

[Neonmoon 38129]

Cult gonna cult. 
 

Same as it ever was 

[midtown 3346]

Lets not forget people have paid (tithed) trillions of dollars to these organizations to allow them to continue to rape and molest and avoid justice

[HouTex 1887]

1.3 billion people and the longest continuously operating institution in the world.  I'll take the over on the dying thing.

Was about to post this. And, according to the most recent stats, percentage wise, the church is growing faster than the world population.

[Guest Lobo]

They wisely got into Latin America and India before it was trendy.  

[Samson's Wig 3193]

14 hours ago, WBT said:

1.3 billion people and the longest continuously operating institution in the world.  I'll take the over on the dying thing.

You are of course correct.  I was thinking about within North America, not globally.  And they'll still hang on here as well, in a limited capacity.

[tx 3 putt 77154]

Quote

The French investigators called on church authorities to implement reforms, including better internal safeguards, supervision and training for priests. The report also calls for rethinking the theology of the clergy, suggesting that an exaggerated deference to priests made it easier for them to abuse minors.

 

how about naming all the molesters and every person involved that helped cover things up. then you start a victims fund, and start selling off pieces of the french catholic church for the funding. 

[Buzzrock 14926]

Same thing that happened to USA Gymnastics, Penn State, Ohio State, and BSA*. Law suits and settlements.
 
 
 
BSA is non-secular in the sense that AA is non-secular.
 

Nassar and Sandusky are in prison and Catholic priests don’t go to jail. I think something like 7,000 priests have been accused and I’m only aware of one that has gone to prison because he plead guilty.

[gmr548 16584]

330k is probably very conservative

[Guest Lobo]

Yeah, I'm afraid to google the statistics...but I'm guessing there's a large percentage of Catholics that have repressed those memories that have no conscious idea that it ever happened at all.  And then on top of that, the almighty Catholic guilt has also probably persuaded another chunk of the population to not even bring it up to an anonymous survey...even with all assurances your information will never be shared.  I'm guessing you could comfortably place that total number not at 330k, but an even half million.  A million in Italy. A few million in the rest of Europe.  A couple million in the U.S.  A few million in Latin America.  A few million in Asia and Africa.  Just since WWII. 

Since the inception of the Catholic Church, worldwide, just extrapolating their own admitted maths...conservatively speaking, perhaps 100 million victims.  Or more.

But they do missionary work so it's a wash.

[WhatTheBuck 28791]

1 hour ago, gmr548 said:

330k is probably very conservative

And that’s just since 1950. In Europe it’s probably been going on for centuries. 

[F250 28788]

1 hour ago, Buzzrock said:

Nassar and Sandusky are in prison and Catholic priests don’t go to jail. I think something like 7,000 priests have been accused and I’m only aware of one that has gone to prison because he plead guilty.

Yes but your post was about organizations and as we have seen most organizations are not abolished after these scandals are revealed.

How the fuck does Baylor still have a football program?

 

[Guest Lobo]

Baylor shouldn't have a university after what they did/didn't do.  

Americans have a singular gift for being able to idolize institutions that are rotten to their cores.  I guess having so many gorgeous national parks was the tradeoff.

[hullabelew 3724]

I've posted this before.  My wife was raised Catholic.  She was divorced when we met and they had convinced her that she needed to have her previous marriage annulled.  So she started jumping through their hoops.  At the time, she was a single mother, deaf, working two jobs to stay afloat.  The Catholic church said she could have her annulment if she paid some preposterous amount.   I think this was about $3000 (about 25% of her salary in the early 90s).   

I called the archdiocese asked what was the fee was actually for.  I was told, "It is to cover administrative costs."  I asked how that amount was actually determined.  I was told, "It is based on income."   I said, "Administrative cost is the same whether she makes $10,000 a year or $100,000 a year."   Was told those are the rules.  I asked how they could justify charging a deaf, single mother, who was working 2 jobs, that amount of money.  No response.  At that point, my cool, calm demeaning rapidly went away and I asked how much they charged to rape young boys.

Additionally, she was wanting to get married in the Catholic Church.  I think that was the reason they were holding the 'fine' over her head.  But they also required me to 'convert'.   I asked the priest, "How can I convert to your religion if you tell people that communion is only open to Catholics?" I told him it seemed to me is was God's table, not man's.    He told me, "That is a rule someone came up with and it is driving people away, but I didn't say that."   Now this was a married priest who the Catholic Church hired away from some other religion at some point when they were running low on priests.  I think he was Episcopalian.    I told him, "So, when your church needs something, it is OK to break the rules, but when it comes to showing simply human kindness, you stand your ground."   No thanks.

Bunch of fucking hypocrites.   I know a man who advises churches of all religions.  In one of his books, he wrote, "Nothing has destroyed spirituality more than organized religion."  Another one if this sayings is, "Religion is a man sitting in church, thinking about fishing.  Spirituality is a man fishing, thinking about God."  

 

[SquishMitten 10420]

But there needs to be some fine print that says if you, or a member of your clergy, or administration get caught diddling kids or breaking laws, your tax exempt status is revoked permanently. 

That wouldn’t really work though. They could just get a new bishop, all new clergy, and reorganize as a new entity (or whatever the correct term is). You couldn’t just say “this building can never have a tax exempt religious organization in it again.”

[DigglerontheHoof 21205]

On 10/5/2021 at 2:28 PM, atomheartbevo said:

There are Southern Baptists who probably think you all are Godless heathens.

Well, I think all Baptists are godless and the antithesis of the words of Jesus.   But then again, so are most other Christians, too. 

[Orange&White 5528]

7 minutes ago, SquishMitten said:

 

That wouldn’t really work though. They could just get a new bishop, all new clergy, and reorganize as a new entity (or whatever the correct term is). You couldn’t just say “this building can never have a tax exempt religious organization in it again.”

 

Why not? Make it a covenant or deed restriction on the property.

[Guest Lobo]

Sorry your wife had to go through all that, Hullabalew

I have to give them credit, they are savvy businessmen.  My wife wanted to be married within her Catholic Church but put her own "stamp" on it, because you know...she was a bride and that's what brides want.  Not a real shocker.  

She wanted it here in Austin, not at her hometown/family parish back in Kansas.  She wanted her cousin to officiate.  He's a Catholic Priest from University of Kansas (awesome guy, very progressive, love him).  She wanted to get married on a Sunday because she wanted her extended family to come and enjoy Austin (most of them had never been on an airplane before).  She wanted to be married outside in April with wildflowers instead of lingering snow.  I had preferred not to convert to Catholicism but would agree to raise our children in the Church since that's all my wife asked of me during our engagement.  We did not want a full mass/communion at our ceremony since well over half the folks in attendance weren't Catholic and our ceremony should promote unity, not ostracize folks.  We did not want the typical Catholic wedding script either, I wanted to write the entire thing with her Priest cousin from start to finish (ever notice how a Catholic wedding always says "the couple has chosen to write their own vows" and then they proceed to say the exact same thing as every other Catholic couple in history?).  My final touches were my Lutheran minister grand-aunt would give the opening and closing prayers at the reception and it wouldn't just be wine with dinner, but full hosted bar for hours and hours.  

Her Kansas church dragged their feet and I just encouraged her to forget about them.  Eventually they quit calling.  Her diocese in Austin said no Sunday wedding, no outside-the-parish Priest (even if he is family), married inside the physical church for "reasons", they conveniently had no April availability for the church wedding setup, we'd need full mass with communion, we'd have to follow typical Liturgy scripts, and no outside-the-faith personnel should speak except as "familial toasts and the like" and I'd need to convert to Catholicism.  

After a few pleasant meetings with the diocese personnel, I slid a check across the desk and a few months later we were married on a Sunday at the Wildflower Center by her cousin and got every other thing we asked for and then some.  They drove a hard bargain though without ever bringing up the subject of money.  It was an artful dodge if ever there was one.  It was only in that moment across the desk I realized how this institution has endured so much for so long...If you hold little high ground but wait for your opponent to finally cave...you will almost always win  /csb

Edited October 7, 2021 by Lobo

[bullzak 422]

6 hours ago, gmr548 said:

330k is probably very conservative

My rule on scandals like this is to double the number and take the over. 

[Wally Fairway 5569]

5 hours ago, hullabelew said:

 Now this was a married priest who the Catholic Church hired away from some other religion at some point when they were running low on priests.  I think he was Episcopalian.    I told him, "So, when your church needs something, it is OK to break the rules, but when it comes to showing simply human kindness, you stand your ground."   No thanks.

Was this one of the 2 twin brother priest who converted?