House of the Dragon

[MNLonghornFUKM 8984]

Well that was good.

[speed817 19962]

[Brian Fantana 6868]

28 minutes ago, Augustus said:

Very well done.

Dumbass kids thought they can control dragons who get pissed at each other.

Not sure what Arrax was thinking though.  There's a dragon 10 times my size.  I think I'll light up her face.

Yup. This is part of the reason that keeping the prophecy secret is dumb. Those who are aware of it know that the idea that Targaryens control dragons is an illusion. Both kids lost control of their dragons and now everyone is going to pay the price, mainly due to Aemond's fee fees.

[Skipper 6411]

Thought that was a fantastic finale. Best of the series to date and I thought made some of the slow playing of characters pay off.   A lot of bitching about nobody to root for in this thread (not here, the Greens have sucked since day 1) but that seemed to clearly flesh out good/bad team.  Sucks we have to wait a while.  Will enjoy seeing Alicent's reaction to that as she tried to straddle the fence 

[NotActuallyALonghorn 5004]

While it was slow most of the the time, the payoff was probably worth it. They've managed to set us up for quite a ride, even if they took their time doing it. I just hope they are able to channel the first few seasons of GOT instead of the last few in what comes next. Binging this would have been better given the slow buildup they went with.

[F250 29201]

An excellent season finale. I assumed Lucerys was going to have a run in with Aemond at Storm's End with his mom making assurances that it's a short safe trip. It seem most Houses not named Stark don't really go out of their way to protect guests.

They need to send an assassin to kill Otto and some hard pipe hitting dragons to burn down House Hightower. Then pay the Baratheons a visit. Once the North rallies behind the Starks each traitorous House will be dealt with one by one.

 

[closetohumping 17818]

Fools just gonna leave us hanging for nine months?

 

anyways you can see the Baratheon archetype is pretty homogeneous.  Fat, hairy, rude and dumb

Edited October 24, 2022 by closetohumping

[closetohumping 17818]

Team Rhaenerys all the way.   Aemond you fucking idiot 

[52-80 19377]

Team rhaenys. Shes class, as always. Then Business Daemon. 

[Buzzrock 15136]

Fools just gonna leave us hanging for nine months?

I thought I read it’s going to be two years.

[speed817 19962]

25 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

I thought I read it’s going to be two years.

I think they just started pre-production for season 2.  Given that it took 14 months for season 1, we are probably looking at spring 2024 at the earliest for season 2 to start.

[Js1 87190]

5 hours ago, 52-80 said:

Team rhaenys. Shes class, as always. Then Business Daemon. 

Love Rhaenys

[billfromlaketravis 11824]

That’s it? I expected more than lighting up the Painted Table and a very brief dragon fight. 
 

Cool scene in Storm’s End. Fits the GOT theme. Hard places, make hard men. 

[Buzzrock 15136]

That shot of the big dragon at Storm’s End was awesome, like something from a modern monster movie.

[Buzzrock 15136]

Daemon already has a dragon right? Was he going for an upgrade with that big one that he was singing to down in the cave?

[mdmost 44065]

I wasn't sure if that was Viserys dragon that he was trying to start riding. You knew the poor kid was doomed when his mother sent him off. I don't remember the Painted Table lighting up before but GOT was a long time ago. Sucks we have to wait 2 years for this to return. I might read the book now. That's what I did after watching Season 1 of GOT. I couldn't wait to see what happened. 

[speed817 19962]

7 minutes ago, mdmost said:

I wasn't sure if that was Viserys dragon that he was trying to start riding. You knew the poor kid was doomed when his mother sent him off. I don't remember the Painted Table lighting up before but GOT was a long time ago. Sucks we have to wait 2 years for this to return. I might read the book now. That's what I did after watching Season 1 of GOT. I couldn't wait to see what happened. 

By the time Stannis was using the painted table (for other things other than war planning), the RGB lights from the table were no longer functioning....

[speed817 19962]

13 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

Daemon already has a dragon right? Was he going for an upgrade with that big one that he was singing to down in the cave?

Right....it looks like he was singing to Vermithor who was King Jaehaerys' dragon.  Also currently the 2nd oldest/largest dragon.  He may be looking to upgrade and may be looking to help claim a dragon for his other daughter who is dragonless at the moment.

[52-80 19377]

13 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

Daemon already has a dragon right? Was he going for an upgrade with that big one that he was singing to down in the cave?

I think he was trying to sign all the free agent / transfer portal dragons that he mentioned, before war kicks off

[Brian Fantana 6868]

22 minutes ago, mdmost said:

I wasn't sure if that was Viserys dragon that he was trying to start riding. You knew the poor kid was doomed when his mother sent him off. I don't remember the Painted Table lighting up before but GOT was a long time ago. Sucks we have to wait 2 years for this to return. I might read the book now. That's what I did after watching Season 1 of GOT. I couldn't wait to see what happened. 

The only dragon Viserys ever rode is dead (Balerion).

[Augustus 3061]

The shot looking up at Arrax as Vhagar passed overhead dwarfing him was foreboding as hell.

[closetohumping 17818]

So physiologically, wouldn’t smaller dragons be able to fly faster than larger ones?

[UT_OB1 2266]

8 hours ago, 52-80 said:

Team rhaenys. Shes class, as always. Then Business Daemon. 

You mean wife murdering and wife beating Daemon?  We’re not supposed to like him, right?

[utxmike05 1833]

I'm installing a fukin seatbelt/harness on my dragon.  The lack of safety is astounding. 

Sending the boy alone to Storm's End was dumb.  And Baratheon had a good point....there was no offering to his house if he bent the knee to Rhanerys.  Rookie move by the Queen.  

It was awesome to see the size comparison of the younger dragon vs the older Vhagar...holy shit. It was like Godzilla vs. Falcon from Avengers.

[utxmike05 1833]

9 minutes ago, UT_OB1 said:

You mean wife murdering and wife beating Daemon?  We’re not supposed to like him, right?

Yea I dislike Daemon...which is why I have a hard time fully rooting for a side. 

I do like Rhanyers, but she also has lied about her bastard children over and over.

But it's bullshit the Greens are fuking over the heir to the throne.  

I guess I'm Team Black, but hoping Daemon dies.

[Brian Fantana 6868]

9 minutes ago, utxmike05 said:

I'm installing a fukin seatbelt/harness on my dragon.  The lack of safety is astounding. 

Sending the boy alone to Storm's End was dumb.  And Baratheon had a good point....there was no offering to his house if he bent the knee to Rhanerys.  Rookie move by the Queen.  

It was awesome to see the size comparison of the younger dragon vs the older Vhagar...holy shit. It was like Godzilla vs. Falcon from Avengers.

Some of the riderless/wild dragons are as big or at least close to as big as Vhagar so shit could get real.

[mdmost 44065]

27 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

So physiologically, wouldn’t smaller dragons be able to fly faster than larger ones?

Yes which the kid figured out when he went low. He should've stayed low but the dragon had other ideas. When he went high above the clouds, it was only a matter of time. Should've stay low so the bigger one had to either hit the water or some rocks. 

Short of someone finding the remains of the dragon, how would anyone know what really happened? I guess putting two and two together that Aemond was there, prince is now missing, presumed dead. Either way, I'd burn Storm's End if I were Rhaenyra. They've already sworn to Aegon. 

[utxmike05 1833]

2 minutes ago, mdmost said:

Yes which the kid figured out when he went low. He should've stayed low but the dragon had other ideas. When he went high above the clouds, it was only a matter of time. Should've stay low so the bigger one had to either hit the water or some rocks. 

Short of someone finding the remains of the dragon, how would anyone know what really happened? I guess putting two and two together that Aemond was there, prince is now missing, presumed dead. Either way, I'd burn Storm's End if I were Rhaenyra. They've already sworn to Aegon. 

Yea we figured the same on how the Queen knew her son was a goner.  Word always travels fast...and we don't always see the space between scenes.

Lil dragon should have just kept with evasive maneuvers and not try to burn Vhagar's face. Interesting that Aemond didn't really want to kill...he tried to hold back Vhagar. Wtf did he think would happen.  

[blacklab 12066]

I was thinking there's no way they kill the poor kid and his baby dragon,

then chomp,

oh yeah, this is game of thrones, they actually kill people unlike other shows.

[Js1 87190]

1 hour ago, Buzzrock said:

That shot of the big dragon at Storm’s End was awesome, like something from a modern monster movie.

Like Godzilla shit 

[52-80 19377]

44 minutes ago, UT_OB1 said:

You mean wife murdering and wife beating Daemon?  We’re not supposed to like him, right?

[52-80 19377]

35 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Some of the riderless/wild dragons are as big or at least close to as big as Vhagar so shit could get real.

If one had to nitpick, given that dragons are basically like the nuclear weapon of their days, folks sure seem nonchalant about securing them:

* aemond casually stealing vhagar (dont they have valet parking for that stuff)

* daemon not seemingly trying to capture the wild dragons before that, especially since driftmark forces are weak

* in the other series, daenerys being gifted all 3 eggs instead of, maybe, keeping some as leverage…

[Brian Fantana 6868]

3 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

If one had to nitpick, given that dragons are basically like the nuclear weapon of their days, folks sure seem nonchalant about securing them:

* aemond casually stealing vhagar (dont they have valet parking for that stuff)

* daemon not seemingly trying to capture the wild dragons before that, especially since driftmark forces are weak

* in the other series, daenerys being gifted all 3 eggs instead of, maybe, keeping some as leverage…

At this point in the timeline, they were probably mostly just taking them for granted and no one thought Aemond would just go steal a dragon that was meant for someone else.

As far as Daenerys eggs go, everyone thought they were just fossilized rocks basically and not actual viable dragon eggs. She's the only one who knew better (or at least suspected).

[mdmost 44065]

5 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

If one had to nitpick, given that dragons are basically like the nuclear weapon of their days, folks sure seem nonchalant about securing them:

* aemond casually stealing vhagar (dont they have valet parking for that stuff)

* daemon not seemingly trying to capture the wild dragons before that, especially since driftmark forces are weak

* in the other series, daenerys being gifted all 3 eggs instead of, maybe, keeping some as leverage…

Dany's eggs turned to stone.

[billfromlaketravis 11824]

Team Green, and my reasoning : 

- Precedent. The Great Council of 101 reinforced the traditional male only sucession. Viserys screwed up by naming an heir too soon. 

- Illusion of power. Remember what Varys said in GOT. Power resides where men believe it resides. After his coronation, most of commoners almost certainly believe Aegon II to be the legitimate king. 

- Alicent/Aemond gave Rhae/Luke a choice. An eye for an eye. It seems barbarbic, but we're talking about a medieval society here. 

- Rhae's heir/first born son is well known in Westeros to be a bastard. 

 

Again grey characters. The Hightowers suck, but Aegon II has a legitimate claim. Rhae can be noble, she wants what's best for the realm, but she's married to Daemon. He would be trouble as Queen Consort. Plus the whole bastard issue. 

My hope is that Alicent/Otto die, and Aegon II and Helanea' first born son survives the Dance to restore the realm to peace. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

1 hour ago, UT_OB1 said:

You mean wife murdering and wife beating Daemon?  We’re not supposed to like him, right?

 

1 hour ago, utxmike05 said:

Yea I dislike Daemon...which is why I have a hard time fully rooting for a side. 

I do like Rhanyers, but she also has lied about her bastard children over and over.

But it's bullshit the Greens are fuking over the heir to the throne.  

I guess I'm Team Black, but hoping Daemon dies.

Seems to me that Martin prefers to depict many of his characters with the ambiguity and uncertainty that many humans have with respect to our decision making. Daemon's moral compass hews to whatever values he holds as important, and given his pragmatism (dreams didn't make us kings, dragons did) his decision making, like all of us, depends upon the situation. Although, his frustration in general (both with his brother and likely with Rhaenyra) regarding the reluctance for going on the offensive is perhaps due to his lack of awareness of Aegon the Conqueror's dream. Alicent has her own guidestar, as did the recently deceased Vaemond Valeryon.

I lean into supporting Team Black mostly due to Otto Hightower (Greens) and his manipulation. Perhaps he is correct to want his grandson to be king given the tradition throughout the kingdom of male progeny being the preferred ruler. But he would not have had that grandson were it not for his maneuvering, and perhaps the entire scheme does not play out according to what he thinks it will. Yet, there are likeable enough qualities about some of them, just as there are decisions and actions from Team Black that are not admirable.

In Daemon's defense, he does seem loyal to his House up to a point, and will defend it with his life. He behaves differently in his role than his parallel character, Aemond, and I find that fascinating.

 

Edit: @billfromlaketravis was of similar mind I see.

Edited October 24, 2022 by Mrs Whiggins

[Augustus 3061]

1 hour ago, closetohumping said:

So physiologically, wouldn’t smaller dragons be able to fly faster than larger ones?

Interesting question.

I'd guess the much larger dragon can generate way more power with the size and breadth of their wingspan than the smaller dude.

It did look like an aerial dogfight when Luke used the narrow passage between the cliffs to shake Vhagar off his tail.  Pretty cool.  They need a Top Gun for dragon riders.

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

Two scenes where I thought the actors performances were well done w/o saying a word were D'Arcy wrapping the body of her baby and then Toussaint in the scene where he enters the War Room (or whatever it's called) and prior to announcing House Valeryon's loyalty, pauses and watches his grand-daughters and takes note of their allegiance. His expression was quite eloquent and following after his talk with Eve Best regarding war/peace it was further revelation (to him) about the impact of war on those who are not soldiers in battle.

[KeysPhoneWallet 807]

Interesting question.
I'd guess the much larger dragon can generate way more power with the size and breadth of their wingspan than the smaller dude.
It did look like an aerial dogfight when Luke used the narrow passage between the cliffs to shake Vhagar off his tail.  Pretty cool.  They need a Top Gun for dragon riders.

I figured the big dragon flapping his wings would have created quite the turbulence for the little dragon underneath.

[Augustus 3061]

30 minutes ago, billfromlaketravis said:

Team Green, and my reasoning : 

- Precedent. The Great Council of 101 reinforced the traditional male only sucession. Viserys screwed up by naming an heir too soon. 

- Illusion of power. Remember what Varys said in GOT. Power resides where men believe it resides. After his coronation, most of commoners almost certainly believe Aegon II to be the legitimate king. 

- Alicent/Aemond gave Rhae/Luke a choice. An eye for an eye. It seems barbarbic, but we're talking about a medieval society here. 

- Rhae's heir/first born son is well known in Westeros to be a bastard. 

 

Again grey characters. The Hightowers suck, but Aegon II has a legitimate claim. Rhae can be noble, she wants what's best for the realm, but she's married to Daemon. He would be trouble as Queen Consort. Plus the whole bastard issue. 

My hope is that Alicent/Otto die, and Aegon II and Helanea' first born son survives the Dance to restore the realm to peace. 

 

 

The Great Council itself was a break with precedent, so I don't have any problem with the King naming his successor.  Rhaenys should've inherited and we wouldn't be in this mess--though we'd have surely had a different mess.

Rhaenyra's kids are bastards yes, but as Catherine of Valois says to King Henry V in The King, all monarchy is illegitimate.  Aegon I had no claim to rule the Westerosi kingdoms.  He just took it.

Yes, Daemon's a bad guy.  But they're all bad guys.  Corlys, Vaemond, Otto et al have been motivated entirely by selfish interest, no different from Daemon.  Unlike them, Daemon is cool as fuck.

The bottom line is everyone swore an oath to Rhaenyra.  The Baratheon dude can fuck off demanding a bribe to uphold his house's oath.  We know the Baratheon's survive this but I hope that illiterate fucker meets a violent end.

I liked that Aemond--while wanting vengeance for the loss of his eye and being openly disrespectful of his nephew's lineage--had no wish to kill his young nephew.  Even when on opposite sides of this deal, the "kinslayer" thing is something they take seriously.  And he was also smart enough to know, just like Rhaenys, that up to that point all out war was not carved in stone.  But now it is, of course.

[Augustus 3061]

16 minutes ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

Two scenes where I thought the actors performances were well done w/o saying a word were D'Arcy wrapping the body of her baby and then Toussaint in the scene where he enters the War Room (or whatever it's called) and prior to announcing House Valeryon's loyalty, pauses and watches his grand-daughters and takes note of their allegiance. His expression was quite eloquent and following after his talk with Eve Best regarding war/peace it was further revelation (to him) about the impact of war on those who are not soldiers in battle.

 

Great observation and I would add to that Rhaenyra's steely look of determination to end the episode.

[hornian 5296]

2 minutes ago, Augustus said:

Rhaenyra's kids are bastards

[lawyer hat] Ahem, under § 160.106 of the Texas Westorosi Family Code, all children born to a wife during a marriage are presumed to be the children of the husband. Further, if a proceeding to adjudicate parentage is not commenced within the first 4 years of the child's life, the presumption may not be challgenged. Therefore, the children are Leanor's under law, and therefore not bastards. [/lawyer hat]

Kidding aside, we at least know that the kids are half Targaryen, since there's no question that they are Rhaenyra's kids. So we know that they have the blood of Old Valyria. 

[Horns RD Standard 76]

[lawyer hat] Ahem, under § 160.106 of the Texas Westorosi Family Code, all children born to a wife during a marriage are presumed to be the children of the husband. Further, if a proceeding to adjudicate parentage is not commenced within the first 4 years of the child's life, the presumption may not be challgenged. Therefore, the children are Leanor's under law, and therefore not bastards. [/lawyer hat]
Kidding aside, we at least know that the kids are half Targaryen, since there's no question that they are Rhaenyra's kids. So we know that they have the blood of Old Valyria. 

Right, i mean Allicent’s aren’t full Targaryen or royalty either. Hers are just as Targaryen and Royalty technically as Rhae’s, right? I mean how much different is House Hightower viewed/perceived than House Strong?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Augustus 3061]

2 hours ago, mdmost said:

Yes which the kid figured out when he went low. He should've stayed low but the dragon had other ideas. When he went high above the clouds, it was only a matter of time. Should've stay low so the bigger one had to either hit the water or some rocks. 

Short of someone finding the remains of the dragon, how would anyone know what really happened? I guess putting two and two together that Aemond was there, prince is now missing, presumed dead. Either way, I'd burn Storm's End if I were Rhaenyra. They've already sworn to Aegon. 

I don't know the answer to this question, so I'm just guessing ways it could've been known.

They had come out of the storm and into clear weather when Vhagar struck, so there could have been people on the ground--and I imagine there are ships patrolling that area or perhaps en route to Dragonstone/Driftmark--who may have witnessed Vhagar's attack and seen Arrax fall from the sky.  

Edited October 24, 2022 by Augustus

[Augustus 3061]

I imagine that, even if Stannis knew about the table-map's backlighting capability, he's not the kind of guy that would've wasted fuel just making the table look bad ass.  

[closetohumping 17818]

2 hours ago, mdmost said:

Yes which the kid figured out when he went low. He should've stayed low but the dragon had other ideas. When he went high above the clouds, it was only a matter of time. Should've stay low so the bigger one had to either hit the water or some rocks. 

Short of someone finding the remains of the dragon, how would anyone know what really happened? I guess putting two and two together that Aemond was there, prince is now missing, presumed dead. Either way, I'd burn Storm's End if I were Rhaenyra. They've already sworn to Aegon. 

Hey Baratheon did my kid stop by?  Yep. So did your brother

[ConferenceRoom 6214]

11 minutes ago, Augustus said:

I imagine that, even if Stannis knew about the table-map's backlighting capability, he's not the kind of guy that would've wasted fuel just making the table look bad ass.  

Yeah, he needs the fuel for other...stuff.

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

1 minute ago, Augustus said:

I liked that Aemond--while wanting vengeance for the loss of his eye and being openly disrespectful of his nephew's lineage--had no wish to kill his young nephew.  Even when on opposite sides of this deal, the "kinslayer" thing is something they take seriously.  And he was also smart enough to know, just like Rhaenys, that up to that point all out war was not carved in stone.  But now it is, of course.

Aemond has a chip on his shoulder similar to Daemon, and their various parallels are leading up to conflict between the two I am sure. There have been enough hints about it with the scenes in which they seem to get the measure of each other. Aemond is a bad ass of a slightly different make-up so it's interesting to watch. His character is going to rationalize this action as the means to an end, IMO and fits his nature: pragmatic but with a useful outcome (somewhat like Daemon's former wife breaking her back and then perhaps succumbing to death by rock but we don't really know do we?). In that regard, they are perhaps similar. 

Muddies the waters quite nicely for story telling purposes.

[speed817 19962]

2 minutes ago, ConferenceRoom said:

Yeah, he needs the fuel for other...stuff.

[52-80 19377]

1 hour ago, Augustus said:

Interesting question.

I'd guess the much larger dragon can generate way more power with the size and breadth of their wingspan than the smaller dude.

It did look like an aerial dogfight when Luke used the narrow passage between the cliffs to shake Vhagar off his tail.  Pretty cool.  They need a Top Gun for dragon riders.

Well you see it actually has to do with the swept area of the dragons torso, multiplied by the quadratic cosine of the angle of attack, compared to its Reynolds number flying in those blustery conditions