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School Shooting in Arlington?

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Harrison Bergeron

Harrison Bergeron 1,798

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, cabowabo said:

A $75,000 bond for taking a gun to school and shooting several people is whack, unless you're in Harris County.

I respectfully disagree. IMHO bail should not reflect the crime committed but the danger the defendant posses to the community. I'm a lot more concerned about a serial rapist or armed robber being released vs. this kid. I have not read anything that indicates he has a history of violence or would likely commit a similar crime in the future. Not sense for a kid to rot in jail - no real value to keeping him locked up.

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Brothahorn

Brothahorn 10,087

Posted
Posted
hmmmm, that's almost worth it considering some of the people i work with....
When I was single, I had a bail fund. I'd just throw money in whenever I thought about it. I converted it over to my secret bullshit fund. But there is enough money in it for at least one murder. Three in Harris county.
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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105,329

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Harrison Bergeron said:

I respectfully disagree. IMHO bail should not reflect the crime committed but the danger the defendant posses to the community. I'm a lot more concerned about a serial rapist or armed robber being released vs. this kid. I have not read anything that indicates he has a history of violence or would likely commit a similar crime in the future. Not sense for a kid to rot in jail - no real value to keeping him locked up.

Correct.  Bail is not punitive, intended as punishment for a crime of which the accused hasn't even been convicted yet.  It is supposed to protect against flight and danger posed to the community.  A stone-cold serial killer?  Set a high bail.  A kid who flips out, even if the flip out was a serious crime?  Probably not a high bail.

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Bevo

Bevo 13,600

Posted
Posted
16 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Correct.  Bail is not punitive, intended as punishment for a crime of which the accused hasn't even been convicted yet.  It is supposed to protect against flight and danger posed to the community.  A stone-cold serial killer?  Set a high bail.  A kid who flips out, even if the flip out was a serious crime?  Probably not a high bail.

You would think an attempted murderer would be a high risk to society. If I was the person he was attempting to kill, I wouldn't feel very safe at all right about now.

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Harrison Bergeron

Harrison Bergeron 1,798

Posted
Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, Bevo said:

You would think an attempted murderer would be a high risk to society. If I was the person he was attempting to kill, I wouldn't feel very safe at all right about now.

But that's where the facts of the case should be considered. By all accounts, this was an isolated event in response to bullying, harassment, being robbed, etc. This looks more like a small kid getting picked on and not a gang banger or serial offender. I would have lunch with him and have zero concern. What is the value of having him sit in jail for a year? Only good that comes out of that is he learns how to be a criminal.

Again, the facts may change, but at this point I suspect he's in exponentially more danger from the guy he tried to kill.

Edited by Harrison Bergeron
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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105,329

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, Bevo said:

You would think an attempted murderer would be a high risk to society. If I was the person he was attempting to kill, I wouldn't feel very safe at all right about now.

Not necessarily.  Context matters, personal history matters, etc.  Someone with a prior history of sociopathic criminal behavior walking up to a stranger and trying to kill them for the thrill of it is materially different than a juvenile with no real record snapping and shooting someone who bullied him.  They may BOTH be crimes, by the way -- not excusing the potential criminal aspect of this event at all.  But they are vastly different in terms of setting bail.

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fattyflattie

fattyflattie 4,638

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I'm going to go out on a limb and bet most of these kids that flip and assault/shoot/kill their classmates are bullied and harassed.  This is the first time I've ever seen anyone give any sympathy for it.  Loners, strange guy, kept to himself.  In other words someone who was ignored and left to their own by their peers.  But this time, it's ok? No fucking way kid should be back on the streets in less than 24 hours.  At a minimum, he's shown that he has terrible decision making abilities. 24 hours isn't even enough to wrap his head around what he did. 

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Bevo

Bevo 13,600

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, Harrison Bergeron said:

But that's where the facts of the case should be considered. By all accounts, this was an isolated event in response to bullying, harassment, being robbed, etc. This looks more like a small kid getting picked on and not a gang banger or serial offender.

That should be for the courts to decide. You've already become judge and jury at that point. That is not what bail is for - bail is for a danger to society and an attempted murderer is a menace to society if the person he attempted to murder is still alive and considered a part of that society.

 

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SarkAfterDark

SarkAfterDark 1,694

Posted
Posted

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10215298939745208&id=1786516980
 

This is what the family is saying about the kid. Not sure how much of it is true just hate that the situation got to the point it did and innocent people were harmed. Also I’m wondering what happened after the “fight”. The aggressor definitely should have been removed off campus but it appears it was business as usual. 

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Sawbonz

Sawbonz 27,587

Posted
Posted

The articles say he’s 18, but his picture looks like a baby. I have no doubt he was picked on because of his size and maybe his personality. I also have no doubt that the admin knew about it and didn’t give a shit. It’s tragic that this happened, but fuck those admins

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Nicole44

Nicole44 22,078

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, fattyflattie said:

I'm going to go out on a limb and bet most of these kids that flip and assault/shoot/kill their classmates are bullied and harassed.  This is the first time I've ever seen anyone give any sympathy for it.  Loners, strange guy, kept to himself.  In other words someone who was ignored and left to their own by their peers.  But this time, it's ok? No fucking way kid should be back on the streets in less than 24 hours.  At a minimum, he's shown that he has terrible decision making abilities. 24 hours isn't even enough to wrap his head around what he did. 

I feel bad for the kid. Hope he will figure out some next steps. Had he been white? I highly doubt the same posters scrambling for clues/mitigating factors would give two fucks. 

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Hate

Hate 20,144

Posted
Posted
I feel bad for the kid. Hope he will figure out some next steps. Had he been white? I highly doubt the same posters scrambling for clues/mitigating factors would give two fucks. 

Now you’ve done it. Queue the hollywoodcolt post about how hard it must be to be white. He lives for that shit.
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Nicole44

Nicole44 22,078

Posted
Posted
Just now, Hate said:


Now you’ve done it. Queue the hollywoodcolt post about how hard it must be to be white. He lives for that shit.

 It exposes the prejudice/bias people have.  He is entitled to the same sympathy/empathy that the these same posters would give to a white shooter. 

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31,535

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Bevo said:

That should be for the courts to decide. You've already become judge and jury at that point. That is not what bail is for - bail is for a danger to society and an attempted murderer is a menace to society if the person he attempted to murder is still alive and considered a part of that society.

 

Bail is NOT for danger to society.

Bail is to assure appearance at trial. 

Bail is irrelevant to danger.  If someone is dangerous, truly dangerous, they should receive no bail.  Not high bail, not bail tailored to what they can and cannot pay, but none at all.

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Nicole44

Nicole44 22,078

Posted
Posted
37 minutes ago, Hate said:


Now you’ve done it. Queue the hollywoodcolt post about how hard it must be to be white. He lives for that shit.

How do you know that my dimwitted inexperience isn't merely a subtle form of manipulation, used to lower people's expectations, thereby enhancing my ability to effectively maneuver within any given situation?

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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

Posted
Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

That's the most blatant "n*gger, n*gger, n*gger" without using the n word I think I have ever seen in my life.

Yes, but you see she posted this in service of the children.  Plus if you walk back the original timestamp, she's a bit of a day drinker.  Not judging, I just wouldn't run a "Kids First" PAC from the bottom of a chardonnay bottle in the Walgreen's parking lot down the street from my kids' school dropoff.  

No CR, but holy shit---the leaps in logic she makes from Mask Mandates to Black on Black violence is just extraordinary.  I've noticed her handful of friends on this site are awfully quiet, like "What the fuck Jen?"   I still consider her a friend and am laughing because she's been going hard to the paint this Fall to be named President-Elect of Texas-Exes for 2022-23, making her President of our Alumni Association in 2023-24.  The next President is a helluva nice guy, former hoops player for UT, and a wildly successful banker outside Fort Worth.  I have gotten to know him quite well over the last few years of service and he is just a fantastic guy and I can't wait to see how I can help him out during his tenure.  He also happens to be Black.  And yeah, he already found out about this post from her.  And yeah, she also has event business with UT-Austin.  And yeah, that's probably gonna go away too.  Good news though, it wasn't my bitch ass this time.  She made a much bigger enemy awhile back and he makes my cleaning services look like amateur hour.

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Nicole44

Nicole44 22,078

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Bail is NOT for danger to society.

Bail is to assure appearance at trial. 

Bail is irrelevant to danger.  If someone is dangerous, truly dangerous, they should receive no bail.  Not high bail, not bail tailored to what they can and cannot pay, but none at all.

There are plenty of people granted bail that are surely dangerous...I doubt this kid is one of those people. By dangerous...I mean letting this guy roam around:https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/police-texas-deputy-wanted-deaths-arrested-77164048

 

 

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Helobious

Helobious 9,464

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, fattyflattie said:

I'm going to go out on a limb and bet most of these kids that flip and assault/shoot/kill their classmates are bullied and harassed.  This is the first time I've ever seen anyone give any sympathy for it.  Loners, strange guy, kept to himself.  In other words someone who was ignored and left to their own by their peers.  But this time, it's ok? No fucking way kid should be back on the streets in less than 24 hours.  At a minimum, he's shown that he has terrible decision making abilities. 24 hours isn't even enough to wrap his head around what he did. 

 

3 hours ago, Nicole44 said:

I feel bad for the kid. Hope he will figure out some next steps. Had he been white? I highly doubt the same posters scrambling for clues/mitigating factors would give two fucks. 

Y’all don’t spend much time online do you. Pretty much every mass shooter has a fan club on some dark corners of the internet. Praise, excuses, and sympathy for what they did abound. Most notably the Columbine shooters obviously. Seung-hui Cho has a decent following as well, he’s probably next biggest. I think those are the only 3 that border on worship I’ve seen. Eliot Rodger is somewhat popular, as is the NZ mosque shooter. No one really cares about the Vegas guy or any of the other recent ones it seems. 
 

So yeah, plenty of white shooters get “support” and then some.

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fattyflattie

fattyflattie 4,638

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Helobious said:

So yeah, plenty of white shooters get “support” and then some.

Where did I mention it had anything to do with his skin?   And I didn’t really think I needed to qualify I was talking about the posters on this site, not some far reaching corner of Reddit or 4chan.  

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Nicole44

Nicole44 22,078

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Helobious said:

 

Y’all don’t spend much time online do you. Pretty much every mass shooter has a fan club on some dark corners of the internet. Praise, excuses, and sympathy for what they did abound. Most notably the Columbine shooters obviously. Seung-hui Cho has a decent following as well, he’s probably next biggest. I think those are the only 3 that border on worship I’ve seen. Eliot Rodger is somewhat popular, as is the NZ mosque shooter. No one really cares about the Vegas guy or any of the other recent ones it seems. 
 

So yeah, plenty of white shooters get “support” and then some.

The ones that do the with these crimes with a purpose do care. You are actually for once hitting a specific tree in the forest but missing the point. No one should be having fan clubs. Sick fucks that they are. What I was trying to say was if this shooting, this particular one was by a rich white kid, there would be a whole other commentary and you fucking know it. He should be viewed as the same as a white shooter under the same circumstances. 

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Helobious

Helobious 9,464

Posted
Posted
16 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Where did I mention it had anything to do with his skin?   And I didn’t really think I needed to qualify I was talking about the posters on this site, not some far reaching corner of Reddit or 4chan.  

That was more for Nicole’s claim. The beginning was refuting your claim that shooters never get sympathy or excuses, and I really thought you meant in general. Some of them are outright heroes to a lot of people. 

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fattyflattie

fattyflattie 4,638

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Helobious said:

That was more for Nicole’s claim. The beginning was refuting your claim that shooters never get sympathy or excuses, and I really thought you meant in general. Some of them are outright heroes to a lot of people. 

Yeah that’s fucked. I know it happens with prisoners, so have to assume the same with these shooters as well. But no, I’ve never seen it. I’ve never seen it here either.   This appears to be a sad story all around, well except everyone lived which is nice. My point is even the deranged lunatic shooters, Asian massage parlor guy for example, was also likely bullied, misunderstood, etc.   I’d posit most of them likely are unless they are on an anger fueled rampage.  But I don’t know. 

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Nicole44

Nicole44 22,078

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Helobious said:

That was more for Nicole’s claim. The beginning was refuting your claim that shooters never get sympathy or excuses, and I really thought you meant in general. Some of them are outright heroes to a lot of people. 

Yes. There are white shooters that get support and claim and fame. No one is saying that is right or should happen. I wanted to say it should not matter whether a shooter is white or a POC that we should basically treat them the same. Fucking - A. damn is that what I am saying really that hard to understand?  POC shouldn't have any more or less sympathy from the peanut gallery. Get it? 

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52-80

52-80 19,245

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, fattyflattie said:

My point is even the deranged lunatic shooters, Asian massage parlor guy for example, was also likely bullied, misunderstood, etc.   I’d posit most of them likely are unless they are on an anger fueled rampage.

Ah... this guy... who accepted guilty plea with a no-parole life sentencing, whose court trial went into details about his guilt-inducing sex-servicing-addiction, and the drunkenness anger outside the parlors, both of which exactly and specifically motivated his shooting.

But yet resident members of the surly justice league were convinced his shootings were driven by race-targeting. 

Surliers and their fixation on certain narratives?  nahhh, never!

 

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31,535

Posted
Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Nicole44 said:

There are plenty of people granted bail that are surely dangerous...I doubt this kid is one of those people. By dangerous...I mean letting this guy roam around:https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/police-texas-deputy-wanted-deaths-arrested-77164048

 

 

What I mean is that bail, the posting of money or collateral as a condition of pretrial release, has never been about danger, but always about appearance at trial.

Pretrial detention without bail can be about danger to society.  But that is denial of bail, entirely, and thus has little to do with bail, or bail reform.

And, sometimes, there are people granted bail that are dangerous, but there's insufficient evidence of that at the time of the bail hearing, that go on to commit violent crime on bail.  Them's just the breaks, not a reason to make bail denial more common, as a lot of pearl-clutchers seem to want.

Edited by TwiceHorn
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fattyflattie

fattyflattie 4,638

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

And, sometimes, there are people granted bail that are dangerous, but there's insufficient evidence of that at the time of the bail hearing, that go on to commit violent crime on bail.  Them's just the breaks, not a reason to make bail denial more common, as a lot of pearl-clutchers seem to want.

I’m not certain that’s what the “pearl clutchers” of late have been frustrated with.  The latest example (this week), a man out of bail for a murder charge, robbed and then ran over a 71 yo woman, killing her. 

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Harrison Bergeron

Harrison Bergeron 1,798

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, fattyflattie said:

I’m not certain that’s what the “pearl clutchers” of late have been frustrated with.  The latest example (this week), a man out of bail for a murder charge, robbed and then ran over a 71 yo woman, killing her. 

Those "pearl clutchers" need to check their privilege.

"In 2020, 18,796 defendants were charged with new felonies and misdemeanors while out on bond, a number that has tripled since 2015, county data shows. Approximately 89,600 individuals were charged with felonies and misdemeanors in Harris County that year."

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/investigations/article/crime-murder-bonds-defendants-courts-crisis-16302521.php

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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

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Posted

Not that we can prove anyway.  No, I was just honestly surprised...this school shooting was unique in many ways.  The motive for one.  but also, we didn't have a million 'weapons experts' come out of the woodwork to discuss everything from the gun used to the magazine to the ballistics.  And we didn't have immediate comparisons to the cardinal direction, nobody brought up the South Side of Chicago until a full day later.  America is slipping.  

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