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Culture wars cause businesses to rethink move to Texas

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Satchel

Satchel 6908

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Wasn’t this inevitable?
 

(Bloomberg) -- Wall Street’s trip down south to Texas and Florida -- where taxes are lower, regulators friendlier, real estate cheaper and the pace is calmer -- accelerated when the pandemic hit. It didn’t take long for the trouble to start.
Wall Street’s three biggest municipal-bond underwriters have seen business grind to a halt in Texas after the state blocked governments from working with banks…

…That’s not to mention the brawls over Covid vaccines and mask mandates, deadly Texas blackouts along the country’s most isolated power grid and new state laws that restrict voting and all but ban abortion. It’s all happening just as Wall Street’s shareholders push the industry to fight climate change, racism and the gender gap.  “It’s incredibly sad to me,” said Colleen Foster, who retired this year…

Read more at: https://www.bloombergquint.com/business/wall-street-s-shift-south-runs-into-texas-florida-culture-wars
Copyright © BloombergQuint

 

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Bookman

Bookman 4610

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43 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

This was posted and then Elon Musk announces Tesla HQ to Texas (on top of all the many people and companies moving to Texas the past few years). Oops.

Wow, you totally just proved that culture wars aren't causing business to rethink a move to Texas! Good job!

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Neonmoon

Neonmoon 38127

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None of this happens in a vacuum. Will it be tougher to higher employees because of 1950s culture in Texas? Possibly. Time will tell. But there’s always younger non Californian or more desperate Texas employees ready to take that job. Will the influx on smarter tech voters change the electorate over time anyway? Time will tell. 

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Hammerin Hank

Hammerin Hank 1224

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30 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

None of this happens in a vacuum. Will it be tougher to higher employees because of 1950s culture in Texas? Possibly. Time will tell. But there’s always younger non Californian or more desperate Texas employees ready to take that job. Will the influx on smarter tech voters change the electorate over time anyway? Time will tell. 

Come on dude 

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Pescado_Rojo

Pescado_Rojo 19331

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35 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

None of this happens in a vacuum. Will it be tougher to higher employees because of 1950s culture in Texas? Possibly. Time will tell. But there’s always younger non Californian or more desperate Texas employees ready to take that job. Will the influx on smarter tech voters change the electorate over time anyway? Time will tell. 

I wish we could hire higher employees, but this backwards-ass state is against legalization, too. 

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YChang

YChang 3431

Posted
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1 hour ago, DonkeyCigars said:

This was posted and then Elon Musk announces Tesla HQ to Texas (on top of all the many people and companies moving to Texas the past few years). Oops.

Our current gov isn’t exactly setting the state up for future success. Seems like they’re deliberately slowing down the economic growth to cater to dumbass policies.

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DonkeyCigars

DonkeyCigars 144

Posted
Posted (edited)
41 minutes ago, YChang said:

Our current gov isn’t exactly setting the state up for future success. Seems like they’re deliberately slowing down the economic growth to cater to dumbass policies.

I think that laws/culture is either a very, very lagging indicator (meaning we won't feel these negative effects for a long time after they are put into place) or they are very, very overstated (meaning they aren't all that important except for buzzy headlines like the OP to clickbait for bloomburg because at the end of the day, taxes and profits are what drives behaviors for businesses and business people). 

Because when you look at the sheer amount of businesses relocating HQ's to Texas, and the volume of people coming here from other states (states with more taxes and more liberal laws, to boot), it tells a story of economic growth with or without dumb policies. And economic growth is good for all residents, tax-payers and homeowners, in my opinion, so I'm all for it.

Mostly I thought it was funny that OP started a thread and then literally same day one of the richest men in the world relocates one of the richest companies in America to Texas.

Edited by DonkeyCigars
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YChang

YChang 3431

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35 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

I think that laws/culture is either a very, very lagging indicator (meaning we won't feel these negative effects for a long time after they are put into place) or they are very, very overstated (meaning they aren't all that important except for buzzy headlines like the OP to clickbait for bloomburg because at the end of the day, taxes and profits are what drives behaviors for businesses and business people). 

Because when you look at the sheer amount of businesses relocating HQ's to Texas, and the volume of people coming here from other states (states with more taxes and more liberal laws, to boot), it tells a story of economic growth with or without dumb policies. And economic growth is good for all residents, tax-payers and homeowners, in my opinion, so I'm all for it.

Mostly I thought it was funny that OP started a thread and then literally same day one of the richest men in the world relocates one of the richest companies in America to Texas.

Yeah I understand your point. Things still look pretty good for now. If you haven’t read this yet, here’s an interesting opinion piece in the NYTimes:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/05/opinion/texas-census-united-states.html

 

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DonkeyCigars

DonkeyCigars 144

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Posted
44 minutes ago, YChang said:

Yeah I understand your point. Things still look pretty good for now. If you haven’t read this yet, here’s an interesting opinion piece in the NYTimes:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/05/opinion/texas-census-united-states.html

 

I can't read this due to not being a subscriber. Do you pay for NYT?

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YChang

YChang 3431

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

I can't read this due to not being a subscriber. Do you pay for NYT?

Yep, here it is copy/pasted. 

Spoiler

By Steven Pedigo

Mr. Pedigo has written extensively about economic development and placemaking in Texas and other cities in North America and across the world.

AUSTIN, Texas — California is “America on fast-forward,” it is often said. Liberals quote the maxim with pride, pointing to the state’s diversity and its outsize share of economic output, technological innovation, venture capital and growth. Conservatives put scare quotes around it, warning about the dystopia that awaits if America becomes any more like California, with its high taxes and housing costs, challenged schools, dwindling water supply, devastating wildfires and permanent Democratic majority.

But if you’re really looking for a bellwether state that offers a glimpse into the country’s economic future and engines of growth as well as its political fault lines in the long run, it’s not California. It’s Texas.

That’s what the 2020 census tells us, along with the last 20 years of economic and demographic data. Many Americans are moving to cities; Texas is urbanizing even faster than California. And we hear a lot of talk about what will happen to our politics when the United States becomes a majority-minority country, but like California, Texas has already reached that demographic horizon. Its present brand of politics may offer clues to the future of struggles across the country between a grasping after mythology and the shifting demographics of America.

I understand that the very idea that Texas could be a herald of the national future is terrifying for many liberals and moderates, given the Texas G.O.P.’s assaults on voting rights and reproductive liberty, the state’s new open carry laws and our governor’s hostility to mask and vaccine mandates.

But given the changes in Texas’s demography, economy and urban geography, it’s fair to say that its conservative lawmakers are even more frightened of what the future may hold for themselves. They are so scared, in fact, that they are throwing sand into that growth engine’s gears.

Here is what you have to understand about Texas. First, it is growing. It added 4.2 million residents between 2000 and 2010, and another four million in the last decade for a growth rate of almost 40 percent — double that of the country as a whole.

But even more striking is what all those new Texans look like. Since 2010, over 95 percent of them have been people of color.

People outside Texas often believe that the state is almost monolithically white, rural and conservative. In fact, less than 40 percent of Texans are white non-Hispanics. For every new white resident that Texas welcomed over the past decade, there have been three Black residents, three Asians, three people with multiracial backgrounds and 11 Hispanics. Dallas-Fort Worth, Austin and Houston also have large L.G.B.T.Q. populations (as a percentage of their residents).

The conservative members of the Texas Legislature might be threatened by diverse cities, but most Texans aren’t afraid of them, because 90 percent of them live in or around them. Almost 70 percent of Texans are from the Dallas-Fort Worth, Houston, Austin or San Antonio metros. Almost all of the state’s population growth over the last decade occurred in its metros, which grew 18 percent as compared with less than 1 percent for the state’s rural areas.

Six of the 10 fastest-growing suburban counties in the United States are in Texas. Fort Worth is America’s fastest-growing city with at least 500,000 residents; Austin is in second place. Each has a unique economic mix, culture and character, from the global gateways of Houston and Dallas to the technology and innovation hub of Austin. El Paso is the anchor of a thriving binational mega-region; San Antonio is a cultural center and a leader in life sciences.

Sign up for the Peter Coy newsletter, for Times subscribers only.  A veteran business and economics columnist unpacks the biggest headlines.

The state’s changing demographics are just a part of the story; its changing economy and industrial mix is the other. I have spent more than 20 years working as an economic development adviser for cities around the world. What’s striking about Texas is the outsize role that the private sector, P3s (partnerships between governments and the private sector), developers and businesses of all sizes expect to play in policymaking.

That can be a bad thing, because companies can and do take undue advantage of the state’s business-friendly environment. But companies are not just attracted to Texas because of its low taxes, generous incentives and unrestricted land use. They genuinely value the idea of “limited government” and having a seat at the policymaking table. This is why we’re seeing so many California companies moving to Texas, or at least expanding into it — in the past year, for example, Oracle, Tesla and HP Enterprise.

In my experience, Texas has a much more diverse, broader group of community and policy stakeholders than you’d find in California, where city, state and county officials and metropolitan planning organizations are hugely powerful. Texas is no longer just about big oil and cattle; we have one of the most diversified economies in the country. Texas’s creative class — professionals, techies, scientists, educators and cultural types — has grown nearly 30 percent since 2010.

Yet Gov. Greg Abbott and the Republican Party have embraced a top-down policy agenda that is backward-looking, excludes huge swaths of Texas’s citizenry and runs against the grain of many of its new stakeholders’ values. They are looking to shore it up by a combination of gerrymandering, voter suppression and relentless cultural warfare. As long as Texas continues to grow, they see no downside to it. But it seems to me and many other Texans that they are making a fatal miscalculation.

Most of the people and companies that have been drawn to Texas aren’t conservative pilgrims in search of endless culture-war strife. Many of them — Republican soccer moms and Democratic software engineers, Hispanic building contractors and Black attorneys — are appalled by the G.O.P.’s divisive agenda. Results from the August 2021 University of Texas/Texas Politics Project poll bear this out. Fifty-two percent say Texas is headed in the wrong direction — the worst wrong-track number we’ve seen since the project began.

Many Texans are deeply concerned about climate change: The state is still recovering from Hurricane Harvey and the severe winter storm of 2021. Many worry about their mounting health care costs: Almost two in 10 Texans have no health insurance, and the governor and Legislature have refused to expand Medicaid funding. Covid has taken the lives of almost 65,000 Texans, and the state’s low vaccination rate makes it likely there will be many more. The high-technology companies that have been driving so much of Houston’s and Austin’s growth don’t have to stay in Texas, and they won’t if it becomes harder for them to recruit top people to move here.

Booms do come to an end, as California learned the hard way. You have to go back to the 1980s to mark the years of California’s greatest growth over the last 50 years, when it experienced a growth rate of nearly 26 percent.

Mr. Abbott and company are staking their futures on an anachronistic version of Texas. It’s time for the state’s private sector to use its seat at the table to ensure that the unique governance model is not sacrificed on the altar of populist revanchism.

The Texas model of public-private cooperation with its mutual focus on growth is potentially one that other states could follow. But it is hanging in the balance. Some companies are already offering to relocate employees, a small but significant warning sign to Republican officials.

As goes Texas, so will the United States — for better or for worse.

Steven Pedigo (@iamstevenpedigo) is the founding executive director of the LBJ Urban Lab and a professor of practice at the Lyndon B. Johnson School of Public Affairs at the University of Texas at Austin.

 

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RDCanecutter

RDCanecutter 26281

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Not being burdened by excess information, I feel qualified to shoot my mouth off.

Seems like taking an established business, and moving it, is a pretty big damn deal that you wouldn't do unless two things match up:

New place has to be better, and old place has to suck.

So if the story's about Texas, that's only half the story. Could it not be that some places that sucked for business, are starting to suck less? I'll hang up and listen to the screams.

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Celery Man

Celery Man 20886

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Texas is now firmly Cowboy Florida, and has even gone beyond that to the extent that it has begun stripping rights from women. That certainly has a negative impact on Austin or other metropolitan areas when it comes to attracting talent, probably particularly in tech. But that's one thing and there are a lot of things that drive the overall needle of "are businesses moving to Texas". We moved recently for unrelated reasons, but I'm sure as fuck not raising a daughter in Texas. I anticipate it will remain far easier to work remote in the future should there be an opportunity with a Texas based company and I don't think I would draw a line in the sand over where the company is headquartered if otherwise it was the correct choice for my family.

As a Texan it is fucking embarrassing though.

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 104628

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10 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

Texas is now firmly Cowboy Florida, and has even gone beyond that to the extent that it has begun stripping rights from women. That certainly has a negative impact on Austin or other metropolitan areas when it comes to attracting talent, probably particularly in tech. But that's one thing and there are a lot of things that drive the overall needle of "are businesses moving to Texas". We moved recently for unrelated reasons, but I'm sure as fuck not raising a daughter in Texas. I anticipate it will remain far easier to work remote in the future should there be an opportunity with a Texas based company and I don't think I would draw a line in the sand over where the company is headquartered if otherwise it was the correct choice for my family.

As a Texan it is fucking embarrassing though.

60% of current college students are women.

Texas is pretty pleased to show its "openly hostile to women" colors.  How do you think that's going to work out in terms of hiring an educated, skilled workforce, long-term?  That's just one element of it.

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Nice Guy Eddie

Nice Guy Eddie 13414

Posted
Posted (edited)

I'm skeptical that many would turn down a career or job because they refuse to move to Texas. Yes, the number of people that would refuse is greater than 0 but not substantial. For the right job, people are willing to justify pretty much anything.

to be clear, I think Texas is going backwards in terms of abbott being our governor. Abbott won't be satisfied until Texas goes back to 1950 and all that entails.

Edited by Nice Guy Eddie
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DonkeyCigars

DonkeyCigars 144

Posted
Posted (edited)
Quote

 

Tesla’s relationship with California hit the rocks last year. Musk railed against the state’s Covid restrictions in spring 2020, when he was forced to halt production at Tesla’s plant in Fremont. He even called Alameda County’s Covid restrictions “fascist” on an earnings call.

Musk personally moved to the Austin area from Los Angeles to be closer to his other two companies, SpaceX and the Boring Company, both of which have operations in Texas. Also a consideration for that move: Musk has an eye-watering compensation package tied to Tesla's performance, and if he chooses to sell his options he would have a much lower tax bill in Texas than in California.

 

Elon Musk (and other famous, celebrity CEO's/founders/billionaire's) have ample reason to fight for one side of the "culture war" as the OP called it, which is to say, for the maximization of wealth through lower taxes.

Everyone underneath an SVP for those people and companies, however, might feel differently. But it does makes sense why Tesla, Oracle, Hewlett Packard, just to name a few since COVID-19, have moved HQ's to Texas...

Edited by DonkeyCigars
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Nice Guy Eddie

Nice Guy Eddie 13414

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Everyone also has to realize that the courts potentially stopping certain Texas laws can be a win-win for Abbott. The net result is no change, and Abbott is a champion to the right for attempting to right a wrong. It's the lib'rul, activist judges preventing him from making Texas a conservative paradise.

Never assume that a politician is acting on principle. It's usually about re-elections.

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OneOfTheOutOfFocusGuys

OneOfTheOutOfFocusGuys 2059

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1 minute ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Everyone also has to realize that the courts potentially stopping certain Texas laws can be a win-win for Abbott. The net result is no change, and Abbott is a champion to the right for attempting to right a wrong. It's the lib'rul, activist judges preventing him from making Texas a conservative paradise.

Never assume that a politician is acting on principle. It's usually about re-elections.

yeah, that was my first thought after pitman's order. abbott had to be feeling relief.  he was shell shocked when SCOTUS didn't halt it immediately.

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DonkeyCigars

DonkeyCigars 144

Posted
Posted
25 minutes ago, RDCanecutter said:

Not being burdened by excess information, I feel qualified to shoot my mouth off.

Seems like taking an established business, and moving it, is a pretty big damn deal that you wouldn't do unless two things match up:

New place has to be better, and old place has to suck.

So if the story's about Texas, that's only half the story. Could it not be that some places that sucked for business, are starting to suck less? I'll hang up and listen to the screams.

Regarding your post; it is both things. California sucking at something AND Texas offering something:

"It’s tough for people to afford houses, and people have to come in from far away....There’s a limit to how big you can scale in the Bay Area,” Musk said at the company’s shareholder meeting yesterday.

A new report projected that the median price for a home in California will reach $834,000 in 2022, after growing 20% this year.

And Silicon Valley is even more expensive: A house in the metro area has a median price of $1.7 million.

Advantage Austin (until it becomes too expensive and another upstart city starts disrupting Austin, in however many years that takes).

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Nice Guy Eddie

Nice Guy Eddie 13414

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Posted (edited)

It depends on the company, but a company's HQ moving may have little impact on any locations' economy. Some HQs move and it's a relatively small crew that is in the new city. Add the fact that most progressive companies are embracing WFH, and they could care less where the employees live. 

However the opposite happens and every employee is forced to move or accept losing their job.

If an announcement is "Gone to Texas", that means nada without more detail. 

Edited by Nice Guy Eddie
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DonkeyCigars

DonkeyCigars 144

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

It depends on the company, but a company's HQ moving may have little impact on any locations' economy. Some HQs move and it's a relatively small crew that is in the new city. Add the fact that most progressive companies are embracing WFH, and they could care less where you live. 

However the opposite happens and every employee is forced to move or accept losing their job.

If an announcement is "Gone to Texas", that means nada without more detail. 

I don't think it means nada. At the very least it means that Texas is getting the tax base versus California, in this case, for the corporate taxes (if any are actually paid after creative accounting).

It also means that the "culture wars" clickbait of the OP was not sufficient enough of a deterrent to make the move, which is something and not nada, in today's world where optics are very important and market moving.

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wildcat09

wildcat09 29257

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21 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Everyone also has to realize that the courts potentially stopping certain Texas laws can be a win-win for Abbott. The net result is no change, and Abbott is a champion to the right for attempting to right a wrong. It's the lib'rul, activist judges preventing him from making Texas a conservative paradise.

Never assume that a politician is acting on principle. It's usually about re-elections.

 

21 hours ago, OneOfTheOutOfFocusGuys said:

yeah, that was my first thought after pitman's order. abbott had to be feeling relief.  he was shell shocked when SCOTUS didn't halt it immediately.

You assholes had to go and say something. Thanks a lot.

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Celery Man

Celery Man 20886

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Posted
22 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I'm skeptical that many would turn down a career or job because they refuse to move to Texas. Yes, the number of people that would refuse is greater than 0 but not substantial. For the right job, people are willing to justify pretty much anything.

to be clear, I think Texas is going backwards in terms of abbott being our governor. Abbott won't be satisfied until Texas goes back to 1950 and all that entails.

I'm but one data point. For me, if I was searching for jobs I would not search for jobs in Texas. However, I am married and I have a daughter and I promise you that if an opportunity in Texas popped up, a move to Gilead would not occur unless it was pretty substantially life changing. And to be clear, while the rights of my wife and daughter are important to me, what I am saying is that my wife would absolutely veto such a move.

It's all way too early to tell what the impact will be on corporate offices/jobs. Donkey points to corporations like Oracle and HP moving headquarters during the time of COVID - I don't know about those stories but I suspect that those moves began a while back. Elon Musk is going to do Elon Musk things. I know firmly that, at my previous place of work (enormous corporation), Austin was attractive because hip+talent+not bay area salaries+taxes. I'm curious what will happen with several pieces of that calculus with the shift to more heavily remote for the long term in tech. But anyways, while I'm not asserting that Texas is no longer going to have any talent to draw from and Austin will no longer be looked upon at all as a cool place for tech talent, I am asserting that if you think not many people would turn down a job because of Texas you are failing to consider women as well as the men who live with them.

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YChang

YChang 3431

Posted
Posted (edited)
23 hours ago, Celery Man said:

Austin was attractive because hip+talent+not bay area salaries+taxes. I'm curious what will happen with several pieces of that calculus with the shift to more heavily remote for the long term in tech. But anyways, while I'm not asserting that Texas is no longer going to have any talent to draw from and Austin will no longer be looked upon at all as a cool place for tech talent, I am asserting that if you think not many people would turn down a job because of Texas you are failing to consider women as well as the men who live with them.

Maybe and quite possible but as someone working in tech, not seeing that so far. I still have a lot of colleagues that wants bigger homes, land, tired of the bay area life that’s actively moving here still. But, just 1 data point as well! 

Edited by YChang
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Celery Man

Celery Man 20886

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Posted
1 hour ago, YChang said:

Maybe and quite possible but as someone working in tech, not seeing that so far. I still have a lot of colleagues that wants bigger homes, land, tired of the bay area life that’s actively moving here still. But, just 1 data point as well! 

having recently gone through a tech job search, and while my parameters may have limited me a bit, it definitely felt like jobs were massively bay area/LA/San Diego or Seattle, less but still quite a bit of east coast, a decent amount of Austin, and then smatterings of Atlanta, SLC, RTP/Charlotte, probably some other spots that I'm missing. Anyways, definitely agree that if I was a tech worker and wanted to find a job in a place where cost of living isn't insane, Austin would still probably be the biggest target if I was willing to move to Texas. I'm really interested to see what happens with the tech job market as it relates to location (and how companies handle pay scales with increasingly remote workforces, etc).

On 10/7/2021 at 3:46 PM, David Dennison said:

No, but it is more provincial backwater than cosmopolitan trend setter, much to the chagrin of Houston and Dallas socialites.

 

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Posted
5 hours ago, Smax said:

I have houses in both states but I've basically moved to California, haven't been in Texas since April and outside of decent Texmex, can't say I'm missing anything

If you lived in the Austin area beforehand, it's self-explanatory.  This thread is basically the pipedream idiocy that Texas should become the places people left to come here.

 

Fuck that.

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Planet Houston

Planet Houston 4923

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Posted
1 hour ago, slorch said:

If you lived in the Austin area beforehand, it's self-explanatory.  This thread is basically the pipedream idiocy that Texas should become the places people left to come here.

 

Fuck that.

Texas should become California because Abbott has passed new laws that make it harder to vote and basically illegal to have an abortion? That’s what you think people are saying?

You’re a thin-skinned weasel with poor reading comprehension. 

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Js1

Js1 85110

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, slorch said:

If you lived in the Austin area beforehand, it's self-explanatory.  This thread is basically the pipedream idiocy that Texas should become the places people left to come here.

 

Fuck that.

You don’t have to post here. In fact, we encourage you not to

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hayden_horn

hayden_horn 11360

Posted
Posted

acl was pretty eye opening, with the messaging from the female artists i saw there. we are international news. i'd be willing to bet grimes broke up with elon over his decision to move the business to texas. 

i thought we were flying under the radar a bit. abbott went full gallon and he fucked up. this is going to be a thing for a while.

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hayden_horn

hayden_horn 11360

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Posted
1 hour ago, DonkeyCigars said:

Really? I'd be willing to take that bet (if it could ever even be known?)

just given my experience with female musical artists over aclfest weekend. they really, really, fucking hate greg abbott.

but also, they were a disaster relationship. so i dunno.

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DonkeyCigars

DonkeyCigars 144

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Posted (edited)

Well, I'll take the bet if you can ever figure out the stakes and a way to settle it. IMO Grimes has already shown above and beyond the cognitive dissonance needed for a mere to move to Austin by being with the billionaire technocrat oligarch, given her stated views, etc. I find it hard to believe she suddenly had a change of heart (especially since her latest music has not been received well, if not outright critically panned).

Or maybe now that she has his baby, she figures she can Melinda Gates and MacKenzie Bezos her way to billionaire status and do her own thing, but I doubt moving to Austin had anything to do with anything.

Edited by DonkeyCigars
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