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California bans "stealthing" (non-consent condom removal)

Gil Bang

By Gil Bang
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Gil Bang

Gil Bang 25957

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Posted

It's hard to imagine that this wasn't already illegal everywhere.  

 

 

 

SACRAMENTO, Calif. — California became the first state to prohibit “stealthing,” or removing a condom without permission during intercourse, after Gov. Gavin Newsom signed a bill into law Thursday.

The new measure amends the state's civil code, adding the act to the state’s civil definition of sexual battery. That makes it clear that victims can sue perpetrators for damages, including punitive damages.

 

It makes it illegal to remove condoms without obtaining verbal consent.

Democratic Assemblywoman Cristina Garcia originally tried to make it a crime in 2017 after a Yale University study that year said acts of stealthing were increasing against both women and gay men.

Legislative analysts said then that it could already be considered misdemeanor sexual battery, though it is rarely prosecuted given the difficulty in proving that a perpetrator acted intentionally instead of accidentally.

The Erotic Service Providers Legal Educational Research Project supported the bill, saying it could allow sex workers to sue clients who remove condoms.

Lawmakers in New York and Wisconsin previously proposed related legislation.

“This law is the first of its kind in the nation, but I urge other states to follow in California’s direction and make it clear that stealthing is not just immoral but illegal,” Garcia said.

 
 
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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105139

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Seems an unnecessary law.  The consent to sexual intercourse was conditional (wear a condemn).  Through deception, you voided that consent.  That's actionable both civilly and criminally.

I mean, an explicit statute makes it easier to bring a claim, I guess.  Just pointing out that it was almost certainly already actionable.

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ztejas

ztejas 43448

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27 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Seems an unnecessary law.  The consent to sexual intercourse was conditional (wear a condemn).  Through deception, you voided that consent.  That's actionable both civilly and criminally.

I mean, an explicit statute makes it easier to bring a claim, I guess.  Just pointing out that it was almost certainly already actionable.

This was my thought, too. 

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workswithseed

workswithseed 2106

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Maybe cause they lessened the charge for knowingly giving someone HIV?

https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/blog/laws/do-i-have-to-tell-a-sexual-partner-that-i-am-hiv-positive-in-california/

 

Quote

Posted on July 30, 2021

Thanks to California Senate Bill 329, as of January 1, 2017, it is no longer a felony for people who are HIV-positive to have unprotected sex and not disclose their status.

The new California law SB 329 also automatically vacated prior convictions related to:

  • Non-disclosure of HIV status (former Penal Code 647f), and/or
  • Felony prostitution convictions based on HIV/AIDS status.

But, it is still possible for someone to file a civil lawsuit for money damages if a partner fails to disclose an STD.. 

 

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1 hour ago, HornOnTheBayou said:

But is stealthing still legal in Haiti? Because I'm headed down there soon and normally I wear protection, but then I thought, “When am I gonna make it back to Haiti?”

or Del Rio...

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F250

F250 28775

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On 10/8/2021 at 4:43 PM, Gil Bang said:

It makes it illegal to remove condoms without obtaining verbal consent.

Democratic Assemblywoman Cristina Garcia originally tried to make it a crime in 2017 after a Yale University study that year said acts of stealthing were increasing against both women

Weird. It's been my experience that it's the female that frequently pulls off the condom. I've had it happen quite a few times over the past year since I've become single.

 

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Modessit

Modessit 5601

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Just remembered I knew a guy at UT that started selling his own brand of condoms called Stealth Condoms with the tag line 'They'll never see you coming'.  It was right around the first gulf war...thought it was pretty clever but I guess it never really caught on
I remember those. Didn't they come in a package that looked like a B2 or something?
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Dennis Taylor

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3 minutes ago, Modessit said:
On 10/11/2021 at 9:49 AM, Dennis Taylor said:
Just remembered I knew a guy at UT that started selling his own brand of condoms called Stealth Condoms with the tag line 'They'll never see you coming'.  It was right around the first gulf war...thought it was pretty clever but I guess it never really caught on

I remember those. Didn't they come in a package that looked like a B2 or something?

Yep

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AUS-97HORN

AUS-97HORN 11762

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1 minute ago, Gil Bang said:

So, you think the behavior is OK? 

 

its how its going to be prosecuted is my bigger concern.    by definition, this is going to be a he said/she said situation.

based on the premise, permission to have sex is implied.  and since having a condom on was the expectation, i get that its assumed you would continue with the condom on.

 

all that being said.... how do you prove the guy removed the condom intentionally?  unless the guy flat out admits he did it, its gonna be super tough to prove.

I guess we do a rape kit to prove semen in the orifice.  ...

but all that proves is they had sex, which  we all agree was  already consentual .       If the condom breaks is that his fault?  if the condom comes off inside her, is that his fault?

does the guy need to keep the broken condom as proof he didnt stealth her? what about guys who go soft immediately after release and basically fall out of the condom?

 

in my mind the ONLY way this could be prosecuted is if you have a clear pattern of a guy doing it to multiple people otherwise there is just way too much grey area

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31471

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20 minutes ago, AUS-97HORN said:

 

its how its going to be prosecuted is my bigger concern.    by definition, this is going to be a he said/she said situation.

based on the premise, permission to have sex is implied.  and since having a condom on was the expectation, i get that its assumed you would continue with the condom on.

 

all that being said.... how do you prove the guy removed the condom intentionally?  unless the guy flat out admits he did it, its gonna be super tough to prove.

I guess we do a rape kit to prove semen in the orifice.  ...

but all that proves is they had sex, which  we all agree was  already consentual .       If the condom breaks is that his fault?  if the condom comes off inside her, is that his fault?

does the guy need to keep the broken condom as proof he didnt stealth her? what about guys who go soft immediately after release and basically fall out of the condom?

 

in my mind the ONLY way this could be prosecuted is if you have a clear pattern of a guy doing it to multiple people otherwise there is just way too much grey area

Well, the conventional socio-psychological thinking is that criminal law is at its deterrent peak when something that was not previously a crime is made a crime, so this may accomplish something even if it's never successfully prosecuted.

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Foosters

Foosters 17856

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1 hour ago, AUS-97HORN said:

 

its how its going to be prosecuted is my bigger concern.    by definition, this is going to be a he said/she said situation.

based on the premise, permission to have sex is implied.  and since having a condom on was the expectation, i get that its assumed you would continue with the condom on.

 

all that being said.... how do you prove the guy removed the condom intentionally?  unless the guy flat out admits he did it, its gonna be super tough to prove.

I guess we do a rape kit to prove semen in the orifice.  ...

but all that proves is they had sex, which  we all agree was  already consentual .       If the condom breaks is that his fault?  if the condom comes off inside her, is that his fault?

does the guy need to keep the broken condom as proof he didnt stealth her? what about guys who go soft immediately after release and basically fall out of the condom?

 

in my mind the ONLY way this could be prosecuted is if you have a clear pattern of a guy doing it to multiple people otherwise there is just way too much grey area

This is often the case with domestic violence and sexual assault cases. He said/she said. 

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AUS-97HORN

AUS-97HORN 11762

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11 minutes ago, Foosters said:

This is often the case with domestic violence and sexual assault cases. He said/she said. 

I get what you are saying, but there is corresponding evidence that helps confirm the issue.   bruises, cuts, broken bones.... hospital visits.  But  unfortunately, it usually takes a pattern to prove.

in this case the presense of semen in a vagina (or anus) proves nothing other than sex occured. As I said earlier, for it to stick, it would have to be a case where the guy has had numerous partners complain he did the same thing. 

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