This is who Steve Sarkisian is.

[Doc Daneeka 6,769]

The reason I'm so pissed off in this thread is because I really WANT Sark to be the dude. I honestly do. I have stated several times, if he could just get into Head Coach mode instead of Run the offense mode during the game he would likely make that jump. It seems like even after watching film he's in fucking denial and actually thinks he's right and the players are just fucking up and not executing so he's not going to change, he's going to try to "work on it in practice". What he doesn't get is that winning the game is more important than calling the right fucking play - this is the problem with sark. 
He would rather be right with his playcalling than win the game.
Head Coaches at an elite level do not do this.

This is what it seems to come down to, imo. It’s like he gets tunnel vision on what he wants to, rather than on what he needs to do or what the game situation is calling for.

I don’t know if he does or it’s something else, but it has that appearance.

[Dark Horse 2,280]

Top 5 in talent? Bro, come on. Our RBs and DTs? Sure. 

[Doc Daneeka 6,769]

Yeah dude - and this team is top 5 talent wise in the entire country. I've also been on record saying that. This team is incredibly talented. Where have I said anything about _this team_ not being turned over? I was bitching about people being like "a coach needs 4 years to get his people" that's stupid and it's not even true here. 

Having top 5 talent, even presuming that to be true, isn’t the answer if it isn’t distributed where it needs to be.

If you’re starting two freshmen on the OL, have non-existent edge pressure, have a patchwork secondary in the Big 12, and a QB who appears to have forgotten how to throw the football, “top five talent” doesn’t tell the entire story.

[Had Enough 2,081]

Top 5 in talent? Bro, come on. Our RBs and DTs? Sure. 

It’s Alabama, Georgia, Ohio State and……… …..he didn’t necessarily say experienced talent.

No one in the Big 12 has more. Probably arguments for USC, Clemson, LSU, Michigan, perhaps Tennessee so it’s in the ballpark.

[Had Enough 2,081]

……….have a patchwork secondary in the Big 12.

We have a solid experienced core in the secondary. Pretty much any program, any era is going to have issues when you get past the first team secondary.

Name me the 6th DB off the 2005 Texas team. The top 5 were NFLers. Four were 1st or 2nd rounders. All juniors and seniors.

All of our starting secondary has been hurt this year.

[Doc Daneeka 6,769]

All of our starting secondary has been hurt this year.

That’s what I was going for with “patchwork.”

[Redneck Mutha 7,954]

I don't know if we have Top 5 talent, but going into a year where the top three contenders in conference (OU, OSU, Baylor) are a combined 19-14 with 5 blowout losses and Bama was out of SEC contention on Nov 13th, I would have expected this roster to be 10-2 with eyes on a B12 title and a Top 10 finish at this point.  

Instead, both TCU and Kansas St have outcoached and outperformed us and here we sit with our dicks in our hands looking at another fucking Texas Bowl.

[JBJ 3,654]

14 hours ago, hobbes2702 said:

It’s also the NFL and the dynamics of coaching success are far far different. There’s no inherent advantage to coaching the Pats, or Browns. There’s inherent advantages to coaching places like Washington, USC, and Texas. 500 in the nfl is not 500 in college.

Are you a teenager?  Washington was a literal dumpster fire.  Worst program in all the FBS.

1 minute ago, Had Enough said:

Name me the 6th DB off the 2005 Texas team.

Tarell Brown who is also an NFLer.

[HtownHorn 14,678]

2 minutes ago, Redneck Mutha said:

I don't know if we have Top 5 talent, but going into a year where the top three contenders in conference (OU, OSU, Baylor) are a combined 19-14 with 5 blowout losses and Bama was out of SEC contention on Nov 13th, I would have expected this roster to be 10-2 with eyes on a B12 title and a Top 10 finish at this point.  

Instead, both TCU and Kansas St have outcoached and outperformed us and here we sit with our dicks in our hands looking at another fucking Texas Bowl.

How did KSU out coach a team they lost to?

[Doc Daneeka 6,769]

How did KSU out coach a team they lost to?

By not losing to Oklahoma State or Tech, presumably.

[Skipper 6,135]

27 minutes ago, immamac said:

 It seems like even after watching film he's in fucking denial and actually thinks he's right and the players are just fucking up and not executing

Counterpoint:  In the games we've lost our players are in fact fucking up and not executing in addition to coaching problems.   I like Sark's roster building, recruiting, offensive script and demeanor (other than his refusal to tear into the shit officiating).  There is a lot I'm not sold on.  So I'm not completely defending him and think he could be doing better as well.  But let's stop acting the like the players have no fault here.  If you are forming your opinion based on what players have to say after losses consider your fucking sources.  We've seen absolute poor execution across the board on both sides of the ball in every loss this year except Alabama.   

[BigHornedLurker 1,936]

4 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

How did KSU out coach a team they lost to?

by winning more games overall 

[BigHornedLurker 1,936]

1 minute ago, Skipper said:

Counterpoint:  In the games we've lost our players are in fact fucking up and not executing in addition to coaching problems.   I like Sark's roster building, recruiting, offensive script and demeanor (other than his refusal to tear into the shit officiating).  There is a lot I'm not sold on.  So I'm not completely defending him and think he could be doing better as well.  But let's stop acting the like the players have no fault here.  If you are forming your opinion based on what players have to say after losses consider your fucking sources.  We've seen absolute poor execution across the board on both sides of the ball in every loss this year except Alabama.   

The biggest criticism to me is the lack of adjustment of sark, that could be second half adjustments or playcall adjustments to whats working with the players. 

Sark really struggles in this area when things stop working. 

I hate to do this, but this was GDGD super power. While we he wasn't as aggressive and plain as many of us wanted, he still tailored the offenses to the players and QBs he had at hand 

[Redneck Mutha 7,954]

2 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

How did KSU out coach a team they lost to?

They're playing for a B12 title next week while having less talent and the consensus before the season was that they were going to finish middle to bottom of the conference behind Texas.  Their staff outcoached our staff this season.  

[BurntOrange&White 39,931]

56 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

Clock management has been the best under Sarkisian than any coach going back 20 years.

[Skipper 6,135]

Just now, BigHornedLurker said:

 

I hate to do this, but this was GDGD super power. While we he wasn't as aggressive and plain as many of us wanted, he still tailored the offenses to the players and QBs he had at hand 

He did eventually with VY and then in the Colt years.  He definitely did not pre-VY.  We should have been a lot more explosive with the offensive personnel we had.

[BevoAbyss 2,059]

Texas's own coaching history has all the data we need. Just look at when the 10th loss occurred. That’s the key to predicting a "turnaround" and long-term success. Of the eight coaches hired since Royal arrived in 1957, if the 10th loss happened in Year 2, the coach was fired within 1-4 years for not winning enough. Sarkisian is at 11 losses.

10th Loss
— Royal and Akers: 10th loss in Year 4. 
— Brown: 10th loss in Season 3, next to last game.
— McWilliams, Mackovic, Strong, and Herman all had their 10th loss in Year 2. 

This alone suggests Sark is not the guy. In my previous post (#3670, page 74) in this thread, the same striking patterns are evident when the 20th loss occurred. If the 20th loss came before or during Year 5, the coach was fired within one year. McWilliams, Mackovic, Strong. 

[Skipper 6,135]

3 minutes ago, Redneck Mutha said:

They're playing for a B12 title next week while having less talent and the consensus before the season was that they were going to finish middle to bottom of the conference behind Texas.  Their staff outcoached our staff this season.  

It all boils down to the 2nd half of the OSU game to me.  IT was inexcusable and that was on everyone.  Coaches take the blame but it was awful execution across the board.  I mean just look at the 9 fucking pre-snap penalties that significantly contributed to our inability to do anything on offense in the 2nd half.

[HtownHorn 14,678]

7 minutes ago, Redneck Mutha said:

They're playing for a B12 title next week while having less talent and the consensus before the season was that they were going to finish middle to bottom of the conference behind Texas.  Their staff outcoached our staff this season.  

You can't claim to outcoach a staff that beat you, and beat you at home.

[Dark Horse 2,280]

1 minute ago, HtownHorn said:

You can't claim to outcoach a staff that beat you, and beat you at home.

We evaluate coaches by how they coached over a season, not how they performed in an individual game. 
 

 

[Beantown Express 2.0 6,559]

8 minutes ago, BevoAbyss said:

 

Texas's own coaching history has all the data we need. Just look at when the 10th loss occurred. That’s the key to predicting a "turnaround" and long-term success. Of the eight coaches hired since Royal arrived in 1957, if the 10th loss happened in Year 2, the coach was fired within 1-4 years for not winning enough. Sarkisian is at 11 losses.

10th Loss
— Royal and Akers: 10th loss in Year 4. 
— Brown: 10th loss in Season 3, next to last game.
— McWilliams, Mackovic, Strong, and Herman all had their 10th loss in Year 2. 

This alone suggests Sark is not the guy. In my previous post (#3670, page 74) in this thread, the same striking patterns are evident when the 20th loss occurred. If the 20th loss came before or during Year 5, the coach was fired within one year. McWilliams, Mackovic, Strong. 

Sark inherited a shitty roster of players.  Look at my post above and show me all the talent left by Herman?  Most of the talent on this roster is Freshman and sophomores right now.  Pull up TCU and K State’s rosters and see how many freshman are starting at those schools.  Both of those rosters are heavy seniors and juniors starting.  At the end of the day, a 3 star recruit that is now a senior/junior who has played for a few years will be better than a 4/5 star freshman.  It’s a men against boys type of thing.  Our team is playing exactly like a young talented team should play regardless of who the coach is.  Flashes of awesomeness with a lot of dumb youthful fuck ups which has led to us losing a few games we shouldn’t have.  We have been in every game we played and if the refs don’t fuck us a few times maybe some of those losses could have been wins.  

 

[TwiceHorn 31,460]

I love all this "pattern-matching" that posits that a coaches' prior record and current trajectory dictates his level of success at this thing and if the pattern can't be matched to a currently successful coach (there's really only 2-3 that fit the board's criteria), then it's impossible for our coach to achieve success.

This whole college football thing is not some determinant system with set variables that you can manipulate to a certain outcome.  It's not a second order homegeneous differential equation with a fixed set of solutions.

Sarkisian's past record is what it is.  It's a factoid that may support a conclusion, or maybe not.  Or maybe go fuck yourself.

No one knows.

I still hope for the best.

 

[Dbeasy 15,048]

Just once in one of these threads it would be nice if someone somewhere would say they changed their mind based upon the posts of others. I don’t think it’s ever happened in the history of online forums. 

Have I changed my mind? No. 

[hobbes2702 13,033]

30 minutes ago, JBJ said:

Are you a teenager?  Washington was a literal dumpster fire.  Worst program in all the FBS.

Tarell Brown who is also an NFLer.

Oh they were terrible. They still are the state school with some decent history including two national titles with access to California recruits and they are in are great location. They aren’t elite but they have some advantages. They aren’t some north central state or whatever.

Tarrell Brown was the starter at CB with Cedric Griffin at the other. Aaron Ross was the 5th DB. Marcus Griffin probably best fits the description of 6th DB on that team. Drew Kelson maybe but he was technically playing LB.

[Doc Daneeka 6,769]

Just once in one of these threads it would be nice if someone somewhere would say they changed their mind based upon the posts of others. I don’t think it’s ever happened in the history of online forums. 
Have I changed my mind? No. 

No one’s post about their opinion of Sarkisian is going to make me change my mind about him. His performance will dictate that.

What would be nice is some kind of statute of limitations, though. Almost certainly Sarkisian will be fired at some point unless he dies or really is the man and wants to go out on top.

[JBJ 3,654]

Just now, hobbes2702 said:

Tarrell Brown was the starter at CB with Cedric Griffin at the other. Aaron Ross was the 5th DB. Marcus Griffin probably best fits the description of 6th DB on that team. Drew Kelson maybe but he was technically playing LB.

I was going with Griffinx3, Huff, Ross as the 5.

I feel like Marcus was the 5th guy on the field when we were nickel.

Ross and Brown rotated pretty evenly.  I think Ross started at the beginning of the season and Brown ended up starting late.

Wish I could find snap counts, but going by tackles it would be Marcus Griffin is #6.  Solid college player, but not in the realm of his brother or Huff. 

[BevoAbyss 2,059]

Did I change my mind?

Speaking for myself: When I realized Sark had already lost 11 games in two years, I got curious and decided to see what the records were for previous UT coaches. Fact is: all UT coaches since Royal have been fired soon if the 10th loss came in Year 2 and 20th loss came before or during Year 5.

Seems to me, that's a lot of data stretching across 65 years of Texas football. Make of it what you want. 

[Wally Pryor 5,261]

1 hour ago, markstanco said:

Festive!

Can pretty much guarantee you Sarkisian will be in dialed-back attire at 9A Friday morning. 

[Had Enough 2,081]

Tarell Brown who is also an NFLer.

Then I suppose I’m miscounting myself.

I recalled it as Brown and c. Griffin starting at Corner. Huff and M. Griffin at S. Ross at the 5th spot and really interchangeable.

Brown I believe was a 5th rounder to the 49ers from what I recall. Maybe drafted a bit higher without a gun charge. It’s possible he was a soph too but was thinking junior.

[BevoAbyss 2,059]

Here’s some more data stretching across 65 years of Texas football. Make of it what you want. 

 

Games Lost With 10-Point (or More) Leads.

—Royal: 6 in 20 years

—Akers: 0 in 10 years

—McWilliams: 2 in 5 years

—Mackovic: 2 in 6 years (both to OU)

—Brown: 1 in 16 years (aggy)

—Strong: 1 in 3 years 

—Herman: 2 in 4 years

 

Sarkisian: 5 in 2 years, almost equaling Royal’s record in 20 years. 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 22, 2022 by BevoAbyss

[hobbes2702 13,033]

2 minutes ago, JBJ said:

I was going with Griffinx3, Huff, Ross as the 5.

I feel like Marcus was the 5th guy on the field when we were nickel.

Ross and Brown rotated pretty evenly.  I think Ross started at the beginning of the season and Brown ended up starting late.

Wish I could find snap counts, but going by tackles it would be Marcus Griffin is #6.  Solid college player, but not in the realm of his brother or Huff. 

Marcus was absolutely not the 5th. Tarrell and Ced started on the outside, Ross was the nickel. And Marcus was a really average college defensive back. Just not athletic enough.

[Had Enough 2,081]

Marcus was absolutely not the 5th. Tarrell and Ced started on the outside, Ross was the nickel. And Marcus was a really average college defensive back. Just not athletic enough.

I was thinking Foster but not totally sure what years he was here. Palmer. Both fast but very short.

But this was my point. Five of that talent is remarkable. Then it dropped off a cliff. This year we go deeper than 2005. There’s still inexperience but there’s more talent in the 2nd team. If you’re being asked to go 7-8 deep, you’re probably not going to like the results.

[Poolflood 845]

10 minutes ago, Had Enough said:

I was thinking Foster but not totally sure what years he was here. Palmer. Both fast but very short.

But this was my point. Five of that talent is remarkable. Then it dropped off a cliff. This year we go deeper than 2005. There’s still inexperience but there’s more talent in the 2nd team. If you’re being asked to go 7-8 deep, you’re probably not going to like the results.

Do we always have to bring up southaustin's mom?

[hobbes2702 13,033]

11 minutes ago, Had Enough said:

I was thinking Foster but not totally sure what years he was here. Palmer. Both fast but very short.

But this was my point. Five of that talent is remarkable. Then it dropped off a cliff. This year we go deeper than 2005. There’s still inexperience but there’s more talent in the 2nd team. If you’re being asked to go 7-8 deep, you’re probably not going to like the results.

They were both on that team and played here and there but they weren’t regulars in the rotation when games were still being contested

[MonkeyDoughnut 10,234]

18 minutes ago, BevoAbyss said:

Here’s some more data stretching across 65 years of Texas football. Make of it what you want. 

 

Games Lost With 10-Point (or More) Leads.

—Royal: 6 in 20 years

—Akers: 0 in 10 years

—McWilliams: 2 in 5 years

—Mackovic: 2 in 6 years (both to OU)

—Brown: 1 in 16 years (aggy)

—Strong: 1 in 3 years 

—Herman: 2 in 4 years

 

Sarkisian: 5 in 2 years, almost equaling Royal’s record in 20 years. 

 

 

 

 

Can you add in players under coach who: wore >$1000 shoes and drove to practice in >$80k cars and made more money than their position coaches. Curious to see if there is a change over time.

[JBJ 3,654]

29 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

Marcus was absolutely not the 5th. Tarrell and Ced started on the outside, Ross was the nickel. And Marcus was a really average college defensive back. Just not athletic enough.

Huff played nickel because it was essentially the same as SS in Akina's single-high base.

His nickel package added a safety to the boundary who was Marcus Griffin.

[hobbes2702 13,033]

1 minute ago, JBJ said:

Huff played nickel because it was essentially the same as SS in Akina's single-high base.

His nickel package added a safety to the boundary who was Marcus Griffin.

Marcus Griffin was not the 5th defensive back. He only played in 11 games. 

[JBJ 3,654]

1 minute ago, hobbes2702 said:

Marcus Griffin was not the 5th defensive back. He only played in 11 games. 

In 2006 he was injured vs Rice.  In 2005 he played all 13 games.

[Surly Bevo 24,908]

Well the silver lining is Imma is aggy.  Don't ever let his Jesus hair style, generally progressive thinking and aw shucks millennial "oh did I do that, my bad" attitude make you forget that.  And since every instinct aggy has about football coaches is wrong......

So we got that going for us, which is nice.

Edited November 22, 2022 by Surly Bevo

[hobbes2702 13,033]

1 minute ago, JBJ said:

In 2006 he was injured vs Rice.  In 2005 he played all 13 games.

No he didn’t. Jesus. He played in 11 games as a sophomore and 11 as a junior. He didn’t play 13 games in a season until his senior year when he started at his brothers former spot. 
He made 11 tackles in the 2005 season.

[BurntOrange&White 39,931]

1 hour ago, Beantown Express 2.0 said:

Sark inherited a shitty roster of players.  Look at my post above and show me all the talent left by Herman?  Most of the talent on this roster is Freshman and sophomores right now.  Pull up TCU and K State’s rosters and see how many freshman are starting at those schools.  Both of those rosters are heavy seniors and juniors starting.  At the end of the day, a 3 star recruit that is now a senior/junior who has played for a few years will be better than a 4/5 star freshman.  It’s a men against boys type of thing.  Our team is playing exactly like a young talented team should play regardless of who the coach is.  Flashes of awesomeness with a lot of dumb youthful fuck ups which has led to us losing a few games we shouldn’t have.  We have been in every game we played and if the refs don’t fuck us a few times maybe some of those losses could have been wins.  

 

Sark coaches in an era when roster turnover is easier than ever. Stop making excuses for this dog shit coach.

1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

I love all this "pattern-matching" that posits that a coaches' prior record and current trajectory dictates his level of success at this thing and if the pattern can't be matched to a currently successful coach (there's really only 2-3 that fit the board's criteria), then it's impossible for our coach to achieve success.

This whole college football thing is not some determinant system with set variables that you can manipulate to a certain outcome.  It's not a second order homegeneous differential equation with a fixed set of solutions.

Sarkisian's past record is what it is.  It's a factoid that may support a conclusion, or maybe not.  Or maybe go fuck yourself.

No one knows.

I still hope for the best.

 

Sark sucks, eat shit.

[JBJ 3,654]

10 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

No he didn’t. Jesus. He played in 11 games as a sophomore and 11 as a junior. He didn’t play 13 games in a season until his senior year when he started at his brothers former spot. 
He made 11 tackles in the 2005 season.

I swear to god, dude.  He had 23 tackles and played all 13 games.

Here's a screencap of the nickel defense:

 

[hobbes2702 13,033]

Just now, JBJ said:

I swear to god, dude.  He had 23 tackles and played all 13 games.

Here's a screencap of the nickel defense:

 

You realize you can just look it up right?

[BurntOrange&White 39,931]

1 minute ago, JBJ said:

I swear to god, dude.  He had 23 tackles and played all 13 games.

Here's a screencap of the nickel defense:

 

If I recall correctly I believe Cedric Griffin would slide inside to nickel when we went to that look.

Starting 4 

Ross
Huff

Michael Griffin

Cedric Griffin

Brown would come in at corner but reality is Ross, Ced, and Brown could all play CB or NB. so it wasnice.

 

[Bobby_Batronic 1,994]

1 hour ago, BigHornedLurker said:

I hate to do this, but this was GDGD super power. While we he wasn't as aggressive and plain as many of us wanted, he still tailored the offenses to the players and QBs he had at hand 

Ehhh. Sorta. Ricky and VY forced his hand. He stumbled into 2008 when Irby went down and Ship took over the inside slot. Otherwise he bumblefucked his way through the offseason  and rebuilt his offense in October usually after OU and maybe a decent OOC opponent had disabused him of his poor notions of personnel and ability. 
 

He was generally smart enough to identify a generational talent and ride it. Otherwise…not so much. 

[hobbes2702 13,033]

Last post on this tangent.

First nickel set of the national title game.

[BurntOrange&White 39,931]

3 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

Last post on this tangent.

First nickel set of the national title game.

I recall Erick Jackson getting a lot of PT as well.

[hobbes2702 13,033]

1 minute ago, BurntOrange&White said:

I recall Erick Jackson getting a lot of PT as well.

He was the next on the depth chart at corner and safety if I remember correctly 

[Hank Chinaski 6,314]

6 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

Last post on this tangent.

First nickel set of the national title game.

This photo should put the “2022 Texas is ultra-talented” notion to fucking bed. Reminder that Brian fucking Orakpo was a backup on that team. 

[lilMAC25 3,794]

2005 6th DB talk not going away.