30 For 30 On Michael Jordan: The Last Dance

[Hate 20108]

31 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

I remember Dennis Rodman making the comment initially and then Isaiah repeating it in what I interpreted as a sarcastic tone and then he started laughing immediately afterwards. I always thought he got a raw deal on that controversy. I'd like to see video or hear sound from it to confirm whether my memories are valid or not. 

Here is a video with Isiah and Brent Musberger discussing the “controversy” during halftime of The Finals. They listen to the audio of what he said and Isiah claims he was saying it sarcastically. I personally think Isiah was still pissed he threw that terrible pass that Burd intercepted in Game 5 when the Pistons had a real chance to finally put the Celtics away. I think he was tired of hearing about Larry Bird. 

[conVINCEd 21469]

Anything that comes out of Isiah’s mouth automatically sounds worse than it is because he is such a smarmy little fucker.  His body language, tone, and facial expressions all scream that he thinks he is smarter than everyone else, and that answering these pedestrian questions is simply beneath someone of his stature.

[Mdhorn 5949]

Regarding the Boston walkoff, Interesting take posted:

From the Boston Globe:

“K.C. and [assistant coaches] Jimmy Rodgers and Chris Ford were all talking about getting guys off the floor, because we were in the Silverdome, and you could just tell these folks were ready to storm the court,” Jennings said. “That is honest-to-goodness what that was about. It had nothing whatsoever to do with trying to show up the Pistons or a lack of sportsmanship. It was really the safety of those guys. I remember K.C. pointing at the guys, going down the bench and saying ‘OK, go to the locker room.’ ”

“One of the scariest experiences of my entire life was after that game ended,” Jennings said. “I was literally behind K.C. as we were trying to make our way to the locker room and you had all these people — it was a domed stadium — so you had this massive crowd and they were coming onto the floor excited and jumping up and down. It was crazy. It was absolutely pandemonium. Of course, they finally beat us, so you get it. It’s nothing against the Detroit fans. But I’ve never forgotten that feeling of trying to make our way to the locker room.”

Edited April 28, 2020 by Mdhorn

[Mdhorn 5949]

Fun story that alludes to who Michael was talking about when he mentioned that Bulls players were doing drugs: http://history.bulls.com/1985-all-star-game-jordan-freezeout/

 

[Deej 76797]

Best part of the Isiah/Larry press conference:

''For a guy who's too slow and can't jump, I think I've done pretty well."

[Aqua Buddha 14597]

People liked to hate on Bird because of him being "white" (code for unathletic) but he was kinda unathletic.  He was fucking nasty, though.  Score from anywhere and a legit triple threat guy.  Could score from anywhere and would completely dominate today's game.

[Mitch Cumsteen 18549]

1 hour ago, conVINCEd said:

Anything that comes out of Isiah’s mouth automatically sounds worse than it is because he is such a smarmy little fucker.  His body language, tone, and facial expressions all scream that he thinks he is smarter than everyone else, and that answering these pedestrian questions is simply beneath someone of his stature.

The thing about Isiah that always comes across is how disingenuous he is. That Bird thing... oh, that was sarcasm. The no hand shaking thing... oh, the Celtics did that to them. Bullshit. Nobody cares if you do or say something stupid. Just own it, apologize for it and move on. People will actually respect you more for it. Charles Barkley did and said more stupid shit than just about anybody that ever played the game, but he is beloved because he is honest about it.

Isiah is just a phony. People wouldn't even care that much about how the Pistons played if they just owned it. Instead, they would whine to the officials and act like pro wrestlers. They were straight up bitches about it all. The Riley-Knicks were just as physical and weren't nearly as despised. Of course, they didn't win as much either, but it is a discredit to how good the Pistons really were as to how they are perceived today. Nobody talks about how fucking great Isiah and Dumars were. Isiah was one of the what, top 5 point guards of all time? Dumars was ridiculous on both ends. Vinnie Johnson was impossible to stop one on one off the bench. A young Rodman was so springy and stifling defensively. He and Salley running the alleys on a fast break was great basketball. Even Laimbeer was a fucking great basketball player -- great rebounder with really good range for a big man and a terrific team and one on one defender. He didn't make 4 all-star games and lead the league in rebounding twice because he couldn't play. AND.... on top of all that, they played great team, seflless basketball. Those teams don't get the credit they deserve, but it's their own fault. People think they were just thugs and they were really much more than that. But then again, fuck them. 

[Hate 20108]

Anyone who doubts Larry’s greatness doesn’t know basketball. They should watch the videos of him breaking Kevin McHale’s team scoring record. McHale had score like 51 or 52 points and begged out towards the end of the 4th quarter because it was a blowout. Larry told him he should have stayed in and scored more because he was going to break that record. Within the next week, they were plying the Hawks in New Orleans and Larry went off. He broke the record and at one point had the Hawks bench cheering him on as he hit one crazy shot after another. There’s video of it. It’s pretty damn funny.

Another time, the Celtics were in a west coast swing and playing against Portland. I guess he was a little bored so he told his teammates he was only going to shoot left handed this game. He scored 20 something points all left handed in the win. Reporters asked him about it after the game and he said he was saving his right hand for the Lakers.

[Iceman 2713]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

i like the line where Bird said he didn't have a problem with McHale setting the record; but he couldn't have someone on his own(Larry's) team having it while Bird was also on the squad.

[Hate 20108]

watch the Hawks bench in this clip.

[HoffaJimmy 316]

34 minutes ago, Hate said:

Anyone who doubts Larry’s greatness doesn’t know basketball. They should watch the videos of him breaking Kevin McHale’s team scoring record. McHale had score like 51 or 52 points and begged out towards the end of the 4th quarter because it was a blowout. Larry told him he should have stayed in and scored more because he was going to break that record. Within the next week, they were plying the Hawks in New Orleans and Larry went off. He broke the record and at one point had the Hawks bench cheering him on as he hit one crazy shot after another. There’s video of it. It’s pretty damn funny.

Another time, the Celtics were in a west coast swing and playing against Portland. I guess he was a little bored so he told his teammates he was only going to shoot left handed this game. He scored 20 something points all left handed in the win. Reporters asked him about it after the game and he said he was saving his right hand for the Lakers.

 

Bird was slow as shit, tough as nails and a guy that legit could hit shots from anywhere in the arena. The current young NBA fans have no clue how fucking good he was. As pure a shooter as the NBA has ever seen. The fact that he was an unathletic white guy make him an easy target for those that never saw him play. He looked like he was doing everything in slow motion but it didn't matter who was on him he was going to get his. 

 

[Deej 76797]

49 minutes ago, HoffaJimmy said:

 

Bird was slow as shit, tough as nails and a guy that legit could hit shots from anywhere in the arena. The current young NBA fans have no clue how fucking good he was. As pure a shooter as the NBA has ever seen. The fact that he was an unathletic white guy make him an easy target for those that never saw him play. He looked like he was doing everything in slow motion but it didn't matter who was on him he was going to get his. 

 

I hated him at the time, but that was purely because of Boston fans. I have the greatest appreciation for him, now. Then I watch the 30 for 30 and Donnie Wahlberg and the Boston fans make me kinda hate him again.

[Underdog 28654]

19 hours ago, Hate said:

Yeah, I always loved him and Fred Hickman (?) on CNN Sports. I’m pretty sure Dan Patrick was there as well before he jumped to ESPN.

Yeah they were good. 

[Grade of D as in David 13253]

1 hour ago, Hate said:

watch the Hawks bench in this clip.

The three waived off at the 2:25 mark made me laugh. Half of the NBA relies on getting contact and jacking up a shot these days. I would love to see that happen for an entire game and watch players heads explode.

[UDontKnow 10445]

2 hours ago, Hate said:

Anyone who doubts Larry’s greatness doesn’t know basketball. They should watch the videos of him breaking Kevin McHale’s team scoring record. McHale had score like 51 or 52 points and begged out towards the end of the 4th quarter because it was a blowout. Larry told him he should have stayed in and scored more because he was going to break that record. Within the next week, they were plying the Hawks in New Orleans and Larry went off. He broke the record and at one point had the Hawks bench cheering him on as he hit one crazy shot after another. There’s video of it. It’s pretty damn funny.

Another time, the Celtics were in a west coast swing and playing against Portland. I guess he was a little bored so he told his teammates he was only going to shoot left handed this game. He scored 20 something points all left handed in the win. Reporters asked him about it after the game and he said he was saving his right hand for the Lakers.

Why were they playing the Hawks in New Orleans?

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

Larry Bird, the most un-athletic white boy who could school the brothers, there ever was in the history of the NBA.

Edited April 28, 2020 by Onboard 2.0

[lateshow 1304]

3 hours ago, Mdhorn said:

Fun story that alludes to who Michael was talking about when he mentioned that Bulls players were doing drugs: http://history.bulls.com/1985-all-star-game-jordan-freezeout/

 

I haven't opened that yet, but I'm gonna bet it was Orlando Woolridge. 

[Gourmand 7774]

That era of mid 80's to late 90's NBA was some of the best sports watching of my lifetime. So many great players, so many physically dominant teams and legendary NBA players. 

One of my NBA moments of all time has to be this play at #1. The bench reaction is hilarious. I was at the game with my buddies and half the Alamodome was in Rocket red and the shit talkin in the stands was flowing as heavy as the shitty beer.

 

 

 

[Braff Zacklin 13575]

16 hours ago, Wade said:

but cripes you act like he's been crying in his mother's basement how unfair life is

You must have missed his induction speech.

Jordan's greatness as a basketball player is undeniable. But when it comes to being a person, I hope nobody aspires to "Be Like Mike."

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

11 minutes ago, Braff Zacklin said:

You must have missed his induction speech.

Jordan's greatness as a basketball player is undeniable. But when it comes to being a person, I hope nobody aspires to "Be Like Mike."

I cringed a half dozen times during that speech.  Self congratulatory, arrogance, thy name is Michael.......

[demos 3003]

The Dream was awesome. Even as a short white boy, i was out in the yard practicing that turn-around fade away jumper. That shot was a thing of beauty.

[Hate 20108]

Why were they playing the Hawks in New Orleans?

I guess to build some sort of regional fan base for the Hawks since the Jazz had left years earlier. Boston used to play quite a few “home” games in Hartford, CT as well.

[UDontKnow 10445]

It's been mentioned here before, bears repeating. It's a shame that Jordan and Olajuwon didn't cross paths more often. 

This was one memorable encounter.

 

[Iceman 2713]

ketchup and mustard will always be my favorite Rockets unis.

[Carl Spackler 3483]

Zeke says MJ was the 4th best player he played against.  Uh huh.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/thomas-ranks-jordan-as-fourth-best-player-he-ever-played-against/ar-BB13kVKo?ocid=msedgntp

[Gourmand 7774]

20 minutes ago, Iceman said:

ketchup and mustard will always be my favorite Rockets unis.

I always felt like they would have beaten the Jazz in the '97 WCF if they weren't wearing those hideous Jetson-themed unis. Fucking Jazz!

On that note, anyone else here remember gm 5 of that series? Tip-off was a couple of hours after the crazy ass weather that day when the Central Texas area (and most tragically, Jarrell) got hit with a bunch of tornadoes and heavy rains, killing 28 people.

NBC of course had the rights to the game, so all of us old Rockets fans who were young back then were expecting to tune in to the game on KXAN. Nope. KXAN stayed with their news coverage and fans were left scrambling to find a way to watch it. Most bars had cable but unless they had a satellite dish, they were just as fucked by KXAN. There were only like a handful of places around town with a satellite dish iirc. My buddies and I had to stand outside of the Tavern with a crowd of dudes on the sidewalk watching the game through the windows because the place was filled to capacity. 

 

All y'all young whippersnappers have no idea what life was like pre-internet. 

[crash_davis 23113]

got damn. episode 7 is fucking awesome. it will be many many years before we see someone like michael jordan. he was blessed we superior athletic ability, but then again so are most people who play professional sports. what sets him above EVERYONE else is his sheer desire to win and drag others with him. he didn't win 2 3-peats by himself but damn if he didn't make and demand that every one of his teammates the best that they could be. 

[UDontKnow 10445]

6 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

got damn. episode 7 is fucking awesome. it will be many many years before we see someone like michael jordan. he was blessed we superior athletic ability, but then again so are most people who play professional sports. what sets him above EVERYONE else is his sheer desire to win and drag others with him. he didn't win 2 3-peats by himself but damn if he didn't make and demand that every one of his teammates the best that they could be. 

Wut?

[Fuck Tim Beck 3816]

19 minutes ago, Gourmand said:

I always felt like they would have beaten the Jazz in the '97 WCF if they weren't wearing those hideous Jetson-themed unis. Fucking Jazz!

On that note, anyone else here remember gm 5 of that series? Tip-off was a couple of hours after the crazy ass weather that day when the Central Texas area (and most tragically, Jarrell) got hit with a bunch of tornadoes and heavy rains, killing 28 people.

NBC of course had the rights to the game, so all of us old Rockets fans who were young back then were expecting to tune in to the game on KXAN. Nope. KXAN stayed with their news coverage and fans were left scrambling to find a way to watch it. Most bars had cable but unless they had a satellite dish, they were just as fucked by KXAN. There were only like a handful of places around town with a satellite dish iirc. My buddies and I had to stand outside of the Tavern with a crowd of dudes on the sidewalk watching the game through the windows because the place was filled to capacity. 

 

All y'all young whippersnappers have no idea what life was like pre-internet. 

Yep. I memba. Had to listen on the radio. 

[Mdhorn 5949]

2 hours ago, lateshow said:

I haven't opened that yet, but I'm gonna bet it was Orlando Woolridge. 

But not yet willing to break from his North Carolina discipline of accepting organization first. Jordan broke his foot three games into that 1985-86 season and would be replaced in the lineup by Gervin, who later fell into a drug problem in what would be his final NBA season. 

[Revolution512 1487]

32 minutes ago, Carl Spackler said:

Zeke says MJ was the 4th best player he played against.  Uh huh.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/thomas-ranks-jordan-as-fourth-best-player-he-ever-played-against/ar-BB13kVKo?ocid=msedgntp

Bitter little bitch ain’t he? 

[conVINCEd 21469]

29 minutes ago, Gourmand said:

I always felt like they would have beaten the Jazz in the '97 WCF if they weren't wearing those hideous Jetson-themed unis. Fucking Jazz!

On that note, anyone else here remember gm 5 of that series? Tip-off was a couple of hours after the crazy ass weather that day when the Central Texas area (and most tragically, Jarrell) got hit with a bunch of tornadoes and heavy rains, killing 28 people.

NBC of course had the rights to the game, so all of us old Rockets fans who were young back then were expecting to tune in to the game on KXAN. Nope. KXAN stayed with their news coverage and fans were left scrambling to find a way to watch it. Most bars had cable but unless they had a satellite dish, they were just as fucked by KXAN. There were only like a handful of places around town with a satellite dish iirc. My buddies and I had to stand outside of the Tavern with a crowd of dudes on the sidewalk watching the game through the windows because the place was filled to capacity. 

 

All y'all young whippersnappers have no idea what life was like pre-internet. 

Didn’t y’all get fucked out of watching a Finals game because of OJ?

[Carl Spackler 3483]

6 hours ago, Mdhorn said:

Fun story that alludes to who Michael was talking about when he mentioned that Bulls players were doing drugs: http://history.bulls.com/1985-all-star-game-jordan-freezeout/

 

If you're referring to the statement in the article about George Gervin later having a drug problem, that's not who MJ was talking about in The Last Dance when he told the story about knocking on a hotel room door and seeing certain teammates doing drugs.  That story was from MJ's rookie season (84-85).  Gervin didn't join the Bulls until MJ's second season, so it wasn't Gervin MJ was talking about when he told that story. 

I'd bet a serious sum of money that Quintin Dailey was among the players doing drugs on that occasion.  Orlando Woolridge was probably another. 

[Iceman 2713]

51 minutes ago, Gourmand said:

I always felt like they would have beaten the Jazz in the '97 WCF if they weren't wearing those hideous Jetson-themed unis. Fucking Jazz!

On that note, anyone else here remember gm 5 of that series? Tip-off was a couple of hours after the crazy ass weather that day when the Central Texas area (and most tragically, Jarrell) got hit with a bunch of tornadoes and heavy rains, killing 28 people.

NBC of course had the rights to the game, so all of us old Rockets fans who were young back then were expecting to tune in to the game on KXAN. Nope. KXAN stayed with their news coverage and fans were left scrambling to find a way to watch it. Most bars had cable but unless they had a satellite dish, they were just as fucked by KXAN. There were only like a handful of places around town with a satellite dish iirc. My buddies and I had to stand outside of the Tavern with a crowd of dudes on the sidewalk watching the game through the windows because the place was filled to capacity. 

 

All y'all young whippersnappers have no idea what life was like pre-internet. 

We had NBC, CBS, ABC, and PBS until I was a Sophomore in high school when Fox TV started( think Simpsons and Married With Children, not politics.)  Watching sports was WAY the hell different.

I would opine that boxing was better back in them days. When it came to the major sports though, you were at the networks' mercy.

To stay on target on the thread, the Bulls had a metric shit-ton to do with people wanting MORE OF THEIR TEAM on TV.

Edited April 28, 2020 by Iceman

[TonyTexas 10515]

If anyone wants to jump ahead, you can stream episodes 5-8 here. I use the streamplay option as it has the fewest pop-ups. Warning if watching with the family: the short ad prior is an r rated Pornhub spot. 

https://srsone.top/show/the-last-dance-s01e05/season/1/episode/5

 

[Mdhorn 5949]

30 minutes ago, Revolution512 said:

Bitter little bitch ain’t he? 

indeed:

"What separated Jordan from all of us was he was the first one to three-peat. But he didn't three-peat against Magic, Larry and Dr. J."

Crazy that MJ ended the reign of Detroit, prevented the Celtics and the Lakers from winning again, denied Utah, Suns and Portland from getting rings, and stopped Ewing, Barkley, Malone and other hall of famers from ever getting a ring.  And yet, Isiah doles out this nugget of garbage. Thomas and the Pistons got retired by the Bulls. 

Edited April 28, 2020 by Mdhorn

[Stunns38 3460]

To stay on target on the thread, the Bulls had a metric shit-ton to do with people wanting MORE OF THEIR TEAM on TV.

WGN had a big part to so with that nationwide exposure too. Plus the Cubs. (W)TBS gave the nation the Braves.

[Stunns38 3460]

Dp tapa crack

[Hate 20108]

WGN had a big part to so with that nationwide exposure too. Plus the Cubs. (W)TBS gave the nation the Braves.

TBS also had at least one nationwide NBA game a week for a while. It was great being able to see the Bulls ok a random Thursday night in February.

[Helobious 9454]

Just finished episode 4, didn’t know about the pistons walking off like that. What a bunch of pussies. Instantly thought about Kyler Murray.

[conVINCEd 21469]

3 minutes ago, Helobious said:

Just finished episode 4, didn’t know about the pistons walking off like that. What a bunch of pussies. Instantly thought about Kyler Murray.

Bitches being bitches is a phenomenon that transcends time.

[Not a cat 5657]

Not directly basketball related, but I found it funny that his mom referred to his dad as Mr. Jordan.  

[crash_davis 23113]

6 hours ago, UDontKnow said:

Wut?

If you have and know how to use VPN, then eps 5-8 have leaked on the internet's. Or stream from the site stated above. You may catch PC aids from the site tho.

[Goo Punch 4275]

On 4/27/2020 at 2:43 PM, Mdhorn said:

Watching how competitive practices were, I can't help but think about this every damn time:

 

these aren't analogous situations. AI was the one player on his team who wasn't a complete spare, and he took a beating night in and night out trying to will his team to victory. The Sixers didn't need to get more guys involved, they needed to get the ball to Allen. AI was 100% right when he said what he said here. 

[Pimphand 5752]

Out of all of my interactions with sports players by far and away the two biggest assholes were Michael Jordan and Hank Aaron. Two of the all time greats but total dickheads. I gave Hank Aaron a pass because he had all that horrible racism and death threats hurled his way. My old man is less forgiving.

The 30 for 30 spot on Rodman is definitely worth watching.

[Mdhorn 5949]

37 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

these aren't analogous situations. AI was the one player on his team who wasn't a complete spare, and he took a beating night in and night out trying to will his team to victory. The Sixers didn't need to get more guys involved, they needed to get the ball to Allen. AI was 100% right when he said what he said here. 

No doubt, AI was very lean and smallish (165 lbs) and he went hard when he played.  These two are such polar opposites.  Jordan found out what his teammates were by dogging them in practice.  The leader sets the tempo and mode in practice and AI had to save himself for games.  I don't think another team could have gotten out of players like Paxson and Cartwright what Jordan got while Iverson just shouldered it all.    I think these are all great discussions so many years later.  

Edited April 29, 2020 by Mdhorn

[Mdhorn 5949]

6 minutes ago, Pimphand said:

Out of all of my interactions with sports players by far and away the two biggest assholes were Michael Jordan and Hank Aaron. Two of the all time greats but total dickheads. I gave Hank Aaron a pass because he had all that horrible racism and death threats hurled his way. My old man is less forgiving.

The 30 for 30 spot on Rodman is definitely worth watching.

Michelangelo and Van Gogh were dicks.  Guys that are intensely driven are going to have difficulty with people that aren't extensions of them.  Rodman was his own player and as long as they won, MJ respected it.  Rodman was probably more akin to Francis Bacon--booze all night, grind the next day.  Or I could just be sleep deprived.  

[TheBryMan81 2513]

16 hours ago, HoffaJimmy said:

 

Bird was slow as shit, tough as nails and a guy that legit could hit shots from anywhere in the arena. The current young NBA fans have no clue how fucking good he was. As pure a shooter as the NBA has ever seen. The fact that he was an unathletic white guy make him an easy target for those that never saw him play. He looked like he was doing everything in slow motion but it didn't matter who was on him he was going to get his. 

 

Watching that clip, the most apt comparison I can think of for a modern day player is Dirk. Dirk is obviously bigger, but I see a lot of similarities in their shooting style and ability to hit from just about anywhere.

[Iceman 2713]

14 hours ago, UDontKnow said:

Why were they playing the Hawks in New Orleans?

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

8 hours ago, Not a cat said:

Not directly basketball related, but I found it funny that his mom referred to his dad as Mr. Jordan.  

I find calling your husband or wife mother or father is fucking weird as shit.  Never got that shit.