30 For 30 On Michael Jordan: The Last Dance

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

2 hours ago, Iceman said:

Didn’t it say last Sunday night ( or maybe I read it online while researching the theories last weekend?) that MJ shorted one of his gambling debts to the tune of about 1-to-3 versus what was allegedly owed.  At a certain point, gambling creditors are gonna make a statement if you feel like you can take liberties with them, regardless of capacity to pay.

Kill dad.  Then mom’s next, mofo.   Y’all are thinking waaaay too nicely for a bookmaker/ crime thug.

I don't know what movies you're watching, but it's more likely they would have kidnapped and conscripted James Jordan into sexual slavery aboard an Albanian yacht

[CurlyDumps 4657]

If this doc doesn't have any "No Tippin' Pippen" stories, I will be bummed.

[sheeeit 129]

16 hours ago, Wade said:

Great post.

Agree about the dad's murder.  A testament to his background and character that he chose to get a couple hours sleep in his car instead of just getting a hotel room (which probably never crossed his mind).  I'm sure that just weighs on MJ to this day.

Disagree a little bit on Krause.  Reisndorf is a supreme prick and is obviously throwing Krause under the bus in this documentary.  But Krause's representation in the doc is fair.

Very astute comment on Pippen.  In the doc, Jackson alludes to the fact that at one point Scottie may have been the second best player in the NBA (and he may not have been wrong), but to your point, Scottie could never carry a team.  You couldn't build a team around him.  There is no one in NBA history that can touch him as a No. 2, but that's what he was, a No. 2.

Another astute comment on Jackson. I had never really thought about his coaching on those terms, but I think you are right.

I should probably clarify my thoughts on Krause.  I agree the representation of Krause is fair.  But, again just my opinion, the players that were slamming and making fun of Krause absolutely knew that Krause was doing Reinsdorf's bidding.  Krause had ZERO say in Pippen's renegotiation.  But the players did not want to take on a billionaire owner.  

The whole Krause was a baseball scout stuff was pretty petty and unfair.  He had been a basketball scout/manager previously for a bunch of years and was well qualified for the job (he does get credit for drafting Earl Monroe).  He also did a  good job, especially early on and, as mentioned, did win executive of the year twice, which was voted on by his peers.  Now, he flamed out tremendously late with the Bulls and deserved to get fired.

Also, now that Jordan is an owner, it is safe to say that he probably has a whole lot better appreciation for a good GM ( Kwame Brown, Adam Morrison and Diop come to mind).  Drafting is such a crapshoot.

[sheeeit 129]

6 hours ago, Iceman said:

Didn’t it say last Sunday night ( or maybe I read it online while researching the theories last weekend?) that MJ shorted one of his gambling debts to the tune of about 1-to-3 versus what was allegedly owed.  At a certain point, gambling creditors are gonna make a statement if you feel like you can take liberties with them, regardless of capacity to pay.

Kill dad.  Then mom’s next, mofo.   Y’all are thinking waaaay too nicely for a bookmaker/ crime thug.

The problem with this line of thinking is that they actually caught the killers and they admitted it.  If they had been paid by gamblers/crime thugs to do the killing, don't you think they would have given those guys up for a better sentence?  Plus, if it was a paid hit, no way they steal the car and so clumsily dispose of the body.  It was just random, stupid criminals.  

[bullzak 428]

10 minutes ago, sheeeit said:

Also, now that Jordan is an owner, it is safe to say that he probably has a whole lot better appreciation for a good GM ( Kwame Brown, Adam Morrison and Diop come to mind).  Drafting is such a crapshoot.

All Jordan the owner needs to to draft another Michael Jordan. Voila, genius. 

Krause was OK only. Nobody knew Pippen and Phil Jackson would be that good. Jordan gives you a gigantic margin for error on any other moves you make. 

[mackavelli 183]

This hits Netflix in July. I wish we could binge watch it now.

All episodes leaked. Looks like from the editing room. Has the espn watermark in middle and timecode in upper right. I'm on episode 6.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

[Revolution512 1518]

15 hours ago, Iceman said:

Didn’t it say last Sunday night ( or maybe I read it online while researching the theories last weekend?) that MJ shorted one of his gambling debts to the tune of about 1-to-3 versus what was allegedly owed.  At a certain point, gambling creditors are gonna make a statement if you feel like you can take liberties with them, regardless of capacity to pay.

Kill dad.  Then mom’s next, mofo.   Y’all are thinking waaaay too nicely for a bookmaker/ crime thug.

Gambling creditor is a hilarious description, also this isn’t the movies. Fucking wow

[Iceman 2978]

4 hours ago, Revolution512 said:

Gambling creditor is a hilarious description, also this isn’t the movies. Fucking wow

"motherfucker you stiffed"

[Don Johnson 4847]

20 hours ago, sheeeit said:

Also, now that Jordan is an owner, it is safe to say that he probably has a whole lot better appreciation for a good GM ( Kwame Brown, Adam Morrison and Diop come to mind).  Drafting is such a crapshoot.

Bill Simmons podcast was discussing the other day if Michael Jordan the owner would let Michael Jordan the player come back and play in 1986.

They went 30-52.  One less win and they are in the 7 team lottery before the lottery was weighted based on record.  Cleveland finished 1 game behind Chicago and got the #1 pick (Brad Daugherty, who was a great player until 93-94).   Len Bias was the #2 pick, and maybe things work out different.  Could've sped up the process instead of inevitably getting swept by Celtics.

Jordan the player couldn't believe they didn't want to win every game.  Would Jordan the owner see it differently?

Edited April 24, 2020 by Don Johnson

[CurlyDumps 4657]

12 hours ago, Revolution512 said:

Gambling creditor is a hilarious description, also this isn’t the movies. Fucking wow

Yeah, IRL I'm pretty sure gambling creditors would happily take 1/3 of a Michael Jordan gambling debt over the astronomical risk of murdering the father of the most famous person in world in hopes that it will scare him into paying the other 2/3.

[aggie08 21796]

2 hours ago, Don Johnson said:

Bill Simmons podcast was discussing the other day if Michael Jordan the owner would let Michael Jordan the player come back and play in 1986.

They went 30-52.  One less win and they are in the 7 team lottery before the lottery was weighted based on record.  Cleveland finished 1 game behind Chicago and got the #1 pick (Brad Daugherty, who was a great player until 93-94).   Len Bias was the #2 pick, and maybe things work out different.  Could've sped up the process instead of inevitably getting swept by Celtics.

Jordan the player couldn't believe they didn't want to win every game.  Would Jordan the owner see it differently?

Depends. Who was the Adam Morrison equivalent in that year's draft?

[Hate 20248]

7 hours ago, Don Johnson said:

Bill Simmons podcast was discussing the other day if Michael Jordan the owner would let Michael Jordan the player come back and play in 1986.

They went 30-52.  One less win and they are in the 7 team lottery before the lottery was weighted based on record.  Cleveland finished 1 game behind Chicago and got the #1 pick (Brad Daugherty, who was a great player until 93-94).   Len Bias was the #2 pick, and maybe things work out different.  Could've sped up the process instead of inevitably getting swept by Celtics.

Jordan the player couldn't believe they didn't want to win every game.  Would Jordan the owner see it differently?

There is a zero percent chance that he would come back after breaking his foot in the current NBA landscape. 

[Grade of D as in David 13255]

4 minutes ago, Hate said:

There is a zero percent chance that he would come back after breaking his foot in the current NBA landscape. 

I don't know. He might sit out, but then again I don't think he's bitchmade like Kawhi

Edited April 25, 2020 by Grade of D as in David
I say this as a pissed off Spurs fan

[billfromlaketravis 11821]

Wow, very well done. 
 

MJ driving Corvettes was a curious choice.

Edited April 26, 2020 by billfromlaketravis

[Grade of D as in David 13255]

45 minutes ago, billfromlaketravis said:

Wow, very well done. 
 

MJ driving Corvettes was a curious choice.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

Just now, Grade of D as in David said:

For damn sure gets guys wet.

[billfromlaketravis 11821]

Interesting that Rodman, MJ, and Pippen were all late bloomers. Such a good team. Ron Harper, Kukoc, Longley, and Steve Kerr.

[Grade of D as in David 13255]

1 hour ago, billfromlaketravis said:

Interesting that Rodman, MJ, and Pippen were all late bloomers. Such a good team. Ron Harper, Kukoc, Longley, and Steve Kerr.

No AAU bag men back then to help spot talent. Also the fact that Pip and I believe Dennis also had fairly large growth spurts in college.

[Stunns38 3805]

Bill: No I’m serious, I’m coming to the after party. Better line up some bitches.

[SDG 3336]

Episode 3 is about Rodman and playing physical D.  

[Radical Larry 28820]

The montage with “Partyman” was awesome.

[Brew 3049]

Carmen Electra may be better looking now than back then.

[SDG 3336]

Just now, Brew said:

Carmen Electra may be better looking now than back then.

My thoughts exactly.  She has definitely aged very well.  I'm surprised I haven't seen her in the over 40 thread.  

[Zepol87 9341]

4 minutes ago, Brew said:

Carmen Electra may be better looking now than back then.

For sure

[Zepol87 9341]

I didn't know any of this stuff about Phil. This is pretty badass

[bluto 4996]

Posted last week, not sure on if it’s older

 

 

[SDG 3336]

Vegas!!

 

 

[Radical Larry 28820]

 

[SDG 3336]

“No way you can convince me he wasn’t an asshole” - MJ on IT walking out without shaking hands.  

[taybo20 3037]

Just amazing how this team came about and how Phil, Scottie and Of course Jordan just we’re so strong. Even more so that Jordan realized the team was more important to win than himself, and that he had to lead improvement by example.

[Anton Chigurh 3335]

[texaslong 678]

On 4/25/2020 at 10:37 PM, Grade of D as in David said:

No AAU bag men back then to help spot talent. Also the fact that Pip and I believe Dennis also had fairly large growth spurts in college.

Wasn't David Robinson another player who didn't hit his big growth spurt until college?

[UDontKnow 10572]

BJ Armstrong hasn't aged a day since his playing days.

[Hate 20248]

Wasn't David Robinson another player who didn't hit his big growth spurt until college?

That’s correct. That’s part of why he was allowed to leave the Navy after just two years. He was too tall per Navy regulations. He was 6’5” his first year at the Naval Academy.

[Not a cat 5807]

I'd forgotten what a little bitch Isiah was.

[Grade of D as in David 13255]

20 minutes ago, Not a cat said:

I'd forgotten what a little bitch Isiah was.

Yep, and it cost him a spot on the Dream Team. 

[UDontKnow 10572]

1 hour ago, Grade of D as in David said:

Yep, and it cost him a spot on the Dream Team. 

I think him outing Magic as HIV+ also had something to do with it. The Dream Team was definitely about keeping Michael Jordan happy and he hated the Pistons. Isiah deserved to be on the 1992 Dream Team - definitely over the likes of Christian Laettner and may be Chris Mullin. I didn't know that the Celtics did the same to the Pistons in 1988 though. 

[Francisco 2.0 32589]

2 hours ago, UDontKnow said:

I think him outing Magic as HIV+ also had something to do with it. The Dream Team was definitely about keeping Michael Jordan happy and he hated the Pistons. Isiah deserved to be on the 1992 Dream Team - definitely over the likes of Christian Laettner and may be Chris Mullin. I didn't know that the Celtics did the same to the Pistons in 1988 though. 

And the Rockets did the same to the Celtics in '86.

I'm not defending the Pistons, nor am I defending any team walking off the court after a playoff series.  But there are countless examples of this; the Pistons doing it is just the most remembered historically.

[HornOnTheBayou 9062]

5 hours ago, UDontKnow said:

I think him outing Magic as HIV+ also had something to do with it. The Dream Team was definitely about keeping Michael Jordan happy and he hated the Pistons. Isiah deserved to be on the 1992 Dream Team - definitely over the likes of Christian Laettner and may be Chris Mullin. I didn't know that the Celtics did the same to the Pistons in 1988 though. 

Laettner made the team because they wanted one college player. Shaq not being the one college player pisses me off to this day.

[Brew 3049]

My only complaint through the 4 episodes is it’s all over the place at this point. It’s jumping between years every few minutes or with each story which sometimes makes it hard to know which period the shot is from. During the ‘91 part of the story they were cutting in travel shots and locker room shots from ‘98. I assume it’s because they don’t have as much from the  early period.

[troph 25226]

I forgot how much Michael Jordan inspired off the court. I can honestly say he was someone I looked up to to emulate. The “I wanna be like Mike” ad campaign didn’t come out of nowhere. He had all of us. During my formative years he was the definition of Mr. Clutch, he personified excellence, and showed a generation of kids what it meant to be excellent. Watching this docuseries reminded me of that, I forgot how powerful his on the court play influenced us all.

[Zepol87 9341]

35 minutes ago, Brew said:

My only complaint through the 4 episodes is it’s all over the place at this point. It’s jumping between years every few minutes or with each story which sometimes makes it hard to know which period the shot is from. During the ‘91 part of the story they were cutting in travel shots and locker room shots from ‘98. I assume it’s because they don’t have as much from the  early period.

Yep that would be my complaint also. 

[Aqua Buddha 14806]

The wife (no pics) made the observation "Why does Michael Jordan seem perpetually annoyed?"

Previous poster mentioned it but BJ Armstrong hasn't aged one day.

Carmen Electra still looks awesome.  48 years old.  That's a name I haven't heard in a while.  Her getting thrown out of Rodman's room by Jordan was an awesome story.

Watching old NBA clips you're reminded how the game was glorified pro wrestling back then.  The stars from both eras could play in each era but past that, none of them would transfer.  The physical, no athletic big men from that day would be run out of the gym now and the stretch 4 types now would get abused back then.  However, those guys who were great then could completely dominate now.  If Jordan could score 35/game with that level of physicality, he'd score 50/game now if he wanted to.

For all the comparisons, though, the games were ugly back then.  You see some of these scores on those games and you have winning teams scoring in the 80's and 90's.  The quality of play started to go down hill during the 90's and when the Bulls split up, it really went to shit.

 

[Don Johnson 4847]

3 hours ago, HornOnTheBayou said:

Laettner made the team because they wanted one college player. Shaq not being the one college player pisses me off to this day.

 

[Mdhorn 6166]

12 hours ago, SDG said:

“No way you can convince me he wasn’t an asshole” - MJ on IT walking out without shaking hands.  

That’s who Jordan had problems with. He has spoken highly of Dumars and we all saw what he thought of Rodman. But Isaiah and Lambeer and maybe Mahorn, although Mahorn was't every really in interviews much. I’ve come to like Salley. He’s pretty honest and I think he did shake hands at the end. Isiah though was the spokesman for Detroit and one if not the leader,  like Jordan so MJ prob expected more from him. 

Edited April 27, 2020 by Mdhorn

[Don Johnson 4847]

I wanted to fact check IT on the Celtics walking out on them.  Game footage below.  Its really hard to tell, but I don't think its apples to apples.

The Celtics bench does clear out with 3 seconds to go.  Its mentioned in the broadcast that's possibly for safety reasons and 3 seconds later you'll see why.  They don't really provide footage of the players leaving except you see one Celtic walk by the Pistons bench to congratulate.  

 

[Mdhorn 6166]

1 hour ago, Aqua Buddha said:

The wife (no pics) made the observation "Why does Michael Jordan seem perpetually annoyed?"

Previous poster mentioned it but BJ Armstrong hasn't aged one day.

Carmen Electra still looks awesome.  48 years old.  That's a name I haven't heard in a while.  Her getting thrown out of Rodman's room by Jordan was an awesome story.

Watching old NBA clips you're reminded how the game was glorified pro wrestling back then.  The stars from both eras could play in each era but past that, none of them would transfer.  The physical, no athletic big men from that day would be run out of the gym now and the stretch 4 types now would get abused back then.  However, those guys who were great then could completely dominate now.  If Jordan could score 35/game with that level of physicality, he'd score 50/game now if he wanted to.

For all the comparisons, though, the games were ugly back then.  You see some of these scores on those games and you have winning teams scoring in the 80's and 90's.  The quality of play started to go down hill during the 90's and when the Bulls split up, it really went to shit.

 

Detroit won games shooting in the 20 percentile.  That's miserable watching.  The way they beat the Lakers inspired Riley to beef up the Knicks and Heat and play a more physical brand of basketball.  But Detroit dared officials to foul them out and they wouldn't.  Also, players didn't get tossed for blows to the head and intent to injure.  That came later with Riley.  

I think that Detroit's physicality is what pushed Boston over the edge to walk off the court without shaking. Detroit didn't have the shooters Boston had and wasn't hustle that was the equalizer.  As they say, it's the retaliatory shot that gets called and so many times against Detroit, they'd call offsetting penalties which was maddening.    Boston got mugged for a series and then was expected to shake hands with their assailants afterwards.

[CBT 1290]

47 minutes ago, Don Johnson said:

 

 I wonder if our own Eddie Money will be on that. He has some awesome stuff.

[Catdaddyhorn 3467]

2 hours ago, troph said:

I forgot how much Michael Jordan inspired off the court. I can honestly say he was someone I looked up to to emulate. The “I wanna be like Mike” ad campaign didn’t come out of nowhere. He had all of us. During my formative years he was the definition of Mr. Clutch, he personified excellence, and showed a generation of kids what it meant to be excellent. Watching this docuseries reminded me of that, I forgot how powerful his on the court play influenced us all.

Not to mention the fact that all of us from that generation were inspired by the fact that he was cut from his high school team. Little did he know that we was just a sophomore and a 5'9" midget when that took place. Those details got lost in the weeds. 

Edited April 27, 2020 by Catdaddyhorn

[crash_davis 23470]

Watching this series reminded how much I hated the Pistons. It was hard watching their games. Just basically 48 minutes of assault. There was no beauty unless you thought crimes against humanity was beautiful.

Fuck Isiah. Fuck that no talent (except for Dumars) team. The NBA refs basically allowed an NHL team win the NBA title.

Magic on Isiah.

""Isiah killed his own chances when it came to the Olympics," Johnson said in the book, per the AP. "Nobody on that team wanted to play with him. ... I'm sad for Isiah. He has alienated so many people in his life, and he still doesn't get it. He doesn't understand why he wasn't chosen for that Olympic team and that's really too bad. You should be aware when you've ticked off more than half of the NBA."