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30 For 30 On Michael Jordan: The Last Dance

Vic Mackey

By Vic Mackey
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sheeeit
sheeeit

Loved it too.  A few things. Gambling/Murder- His dad's murder had nothing at all to do with gambling/mafia etc.  It was just random bad luck.  The killers are in prison.  They would have cut a d

Mitch Cumsteen
Mitch Cumsteen

The thing about Isiah that always comes across is how disingenuous he is. That Bird thing... oh, that was sarcasm. The no hand shaking thing... oh, the Celtics did that to them. Bullshit. Nobody cares

TexasMan
TexasMan

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UDontKnow

UDontKnow 10439

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What the last episode was missing was a discussion regarding the death of Michael Jordan's father. Even though I was a kid at the time, I remember several speculating that it involved gambling debts. I didn't see the famous video footage of Jordan lying on the ground in the locker room crying after accomplishing the 3 peat because of emotions surrounding his father's death.

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conVINCEd

conVINCEd 21468

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9 minutes ago, UDontKnow said:

What the last episode was missing was a discussion regarding the death of Michael Jordan's father. Even though I was a kid at the time, I remember several speculating that it involved gambling debts. I didn't see the famous video footage of Jordan lying on the ground in the locker room crying after accomplishing the 3 peat because of emotions surrounding his father's death.

There’s still 4 episodes left

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Don Johnson

Don Johnson 4745

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7 minutes ago, UDontKnow said:

What the last episode was missing was a discussion regarding the death of Michael Jordan's father. Even though I was a kid at the time, I remember several speculating that it involved gambling debts. I didn't see the famous video footage of Jordan lying on the ground in the locker room crying after accomplishing the 3 peat because of emotions surrounding his father's death.

I bet that's in one of the next two episodes.  As much as it bounces around from 1998 to the past, its still following a chronological order with Jordan's career.  Early years at UNC and Bulls > battles with Pistons > 91 Finals > 92 Finals > Dream Team > ended with 93 Finals last night.  His father's death and baseball will be next, followed by 96 and 97 Finals.

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Brew

Brew 3045

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On 5/1/2020 at 7:24 PM, Trey3216 said:

I remember being absolutely mortified watching that.  

Portions of this series are somewhat an extended version of that HOF speech. His comments on Isaiah, Drexler, Ewing, Majerle, etc are him taking another public dig at slights he perceived 20+ years ago even though he 100% proved his position on the court. It’s also his response to a lot of questions that have followed him around Isaiah on the dream team, was he getting suspended, relationship problems with his teammates, etc. I would have liked to have seen more on his relationship with Kobe, but that portion may have been changed after his death.

It really has the feel of him allowing this at this certain point just to end any debate with this generation on Lebron and/or others. He knows he proved it on the court, but this generation missed it and needs to be caught up on Jordan’s dominance. It’s an interesting perspective through Jordan’s eyes, but it glosses over or doesn’t cover a lot of the negatives at least not yet anyways. The portion on the gambling and Sam Smith’s book last night touched on it but it still spun it to at least a net neutral instead of a negative.

It’s really a combination of a documentary and Jordan’s memoir with a heavy tilt to the memoir side. They couldn’t have timed the release any better with no sports and everyone home bound. It’s been appointment TV for us.

 

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Iceman

Iceman 2639

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11 minutes ago, Fuck Tim Beck said:

^^ this has been my view as well. I take it with a grain of salt because in the end, Jordan basically has creating control over this it seems. They really have glossed over his gambling connections so far. And I don't see that changing. 

the last episode started getting there.  Was wondering if they were just gonna flat out ignore it.  Maybe it will come out more in the "Baseball Experiment."

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Iceman

Iceman 2639

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3 minutes ago, Don Johnson said:

This.  Its the least interesting storyline for me.

It's VERY interesting if it factored in to a 2 year absence from the NBA that may or may not have been so voluntary.

As far as relating to Jordan's character, yeah, I'm totally with the WGAF? crowd.

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Hate

Hate 20103

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It's VERY interesting if it factored in to a 2 year absence from the NBA that may or may not have been so voluntary.
As far as relating to Jordan's character, yeah, I'm totally with the WGAF? crowd.

I think it’s pretty clear that he was absolutely burned out and tired of it all. The “gambling suspension” has been debunked over and over, but people are going to believe what they want to believe. There were more than one clips from videos during that 93 season were Jordan clearly says that he might retire because he was tired of the scrutiny and constant criticism. Of course, he could have just stayed out of the public eye rather than playing baseball, but that guy can’t turn that need for competition off. You can see it just by how badly he wanted to win that game with the security guards. As long as he was awake, he was competing at something. It’s insane just how competitive he was. I’ve never seen anything like it even though we were always told by the people close to him that he was like that. To actually be able to see it in these old recordings is amazing.
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HoffaJimmy

HoffaJimmy 316

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Just now, Hate said:


I think it’s pretty clear that he was absolutely burned out and tired of it all. The “gambling suspension” has been debunked over and over, but people are going to believe what they want to believe. There were more than one clips from videos during that 93 season were Jordan clearly says that he might retire because he was tired of the scrutiny and constant criticism. Of course, he could have just stayed out of the public eye rather than playing baseball, but that guy can’t turn that need for competition off. You can see it just by how badly he wanted to win that game with the security guards. As long as he was awake, he was competing at something. It’s insane just how competitive he was. I’ve never seen anything like it even though we were always told by the people close to him that he was like that. To actually be able to see it in these old recordings is amazing.

 

It's pretty rare that a guy that is clearly "the best" has that big of a chip on their shoulder after winning as much as he did. Give anybody in life the drive he had and they could do anything they wanted. As far as him being an asshole and his HOF speech being me, me me- Well no shit, that's what made him who he is. 

Throw in the fact that most (all) of his teammates and the greats of that time (Kobe too) all either liked him, respected him or hung out with him says all you need to know about him. As the episode talked about last night is people want to find that crack to dig at. I get the gambling stories are eye openers for people but the whole side trip to Atlantic City story line was nothing more than New York tabloid bullshit to sell papers. 

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crash_davis

crash_davis 23081

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RE the HOF speech, other than Krause, he was not trying to be a dick to the people he talk about. It was his way of praising them, of using them as motivators into making who he is, motivator to his drive to become the BEST. He was saying that he wouldn't be who he became if those people hadn't driven him. 

I remember seeing a video of his saying that Pat Riley was the only one who understood his HOF speech.

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crash_davis

crash_davis 23081

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Ep 7 addresses a lot of the things yall are discussing. I won't spoil it for yall but it's my fav ep of the series.

Ep 8 brings the feels.

There will never be another MJ. The combination of god-like athletic ability matched with the drive to go fucking all out in everything he does. Winning is the ONLY thing that matters. He was willing to prove it everyday on the court and in practice and training.

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crash_davis

crash_davis 23081

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3 minutes ago, Deej said:

If LeBron have half the fucking desire of MJ...

Wait until you watch ep7. You'll see what sets Jordan apart from anyone before and after.

I watched an interview with Barkley comparing Jordan and Lebron where he said that LeBron is a nice guy. Jordan is a nice guy as long as you worked as hard as and wanted to win as much as he did. Jordan demanded it and was willing to be a complete asshole to achieve that end. LeBron won't do that. This is why Jordan has 6 rings. But I'd argue that this day of social media and hyper wokeness, a person cannot be an asshole about winning as Jordan was.

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Goo Punch

Goo Punch 4275

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13 minutes ago, Deej said:

If LeBron have half the fucking desire of MJ...

it's one of the biggest things that i tell my kids (at my school) that separates the two: LBJ has made it clear from the beginning that his goals are totally different than MJ's. LeBron wants to be a mogul, he wants to be Jay Z, he wants to be a billionaire; and he also wants to be everyone's friend. he's probably the most physically gifted athlete in the history of sport,  but his goals and desires stretch way beyond the scope of winning basketball games/titles, whereas Michael just wants to crush and destroy anyone who competes with him at anything. If LeBron had that sort of singular mindset and drive then he'd probably have 6+ titles himself, and would actually be considered better than MJ by many. 

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Deej

Deej 76524

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2 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

it's one of the biggest things that i tell my kids (at my school) that separates the two: LBJ has made it clear from the beginning that his goals are totally different than MJ's. LeBron wants to be a mogul, he wants to be Jay Z, he wants to be a billionaire; and he also wants to be everyone's friend. he's probably the most physically gifted athlete in the history of sport,  but his goals and desires stretch way beyond the scope of winning basketball games/titles, whereas Michael just wants to crush and destroy anyone who competes with him at anything. If LeBron had that sort of singular mindset and drive then he'd probably have 6+ titles himself, and would actually be considered better than MJ by many. 

If LBJ had MJ's drive, there would be no discussion. Give MJ LeBron's physical gifts and there would be no discussion for the next 50 years.

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Catdaddyhorn

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3 hours ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

Dumb question but has anyone noticed MJs eye balls being extremely yellow in some shots? Pretty noticeable

Have you noticed the glass of brown liquor on the stand next to him that is an uncredited and consistent presence in the doc?

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Aqua Buddha

Aqua Buddha 14501

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The footage of the practice in Monte Carlo was fucking awesome.  Jordan's switch got flipped and he completely dominated the 12 best players in the world.

Jordan gets too much blame for Isiah being left off the Olympic team.  Lots of people hated Isiah because he's a bitch.  Also, they had Magic, John Stockton, and Scottie Pippen.  They had 3 guys right there who could play point.  If you put Isiah on, where does he play and who do you take off?  Chris Mullin or Barkley?  Nope.  The big men?  Nope.  They sure as fuck weren't leaving Magic or Bird off.  Maybe Clyde but then you have 4 PG's or something.

I always thought Horace Grant was underrated.  Not a great player but a very good one.  One of the damn few role players that can play in both eras.  He'd be a damn fine center in today's game.  Big, long, athletic, defend multiple positions, can score, etc.  

Along with him, Toni Kukoc could play in both eras.  Excellent stretch four.  People that ask how the Bulls would play today, well, they'd have a starting lineup of Grant, Kukoc, Pippen, Jordan, and BJ.  Guard that.

People forget how big Jordan was.  The clips of him in the locker room at MSG where they were normal people there, he towered over them but he was also big at that point in his career.

That Knick team was trash.  That was the low point of the 90's NBA.  Riley put that team together under the rules of the day with no consideration for offensive skill.  Starting lineup of Ewing, Oakley, Starks, Doc Rivers, and Charles Smith with Anthony Mason and a few other tough guys thrown in.  Maybe three of those guys even make the league that this point and they took the Bulls to the limit in the Eastern Conference Finals.

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Goo Punch

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38 minutes ago, Helobious said:

Music in this series is sick as fuck. 

Rakim and Nas when they're in NYC, OutKast when they're in Atlanta...too many others to remember, but yes, the soundtrack has been awesome.

edit: Oh yeah, last night they played "Connected" by Stereo MC's, one of my all time favorite songs. again, awesome soundtrack. 

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Wade

Wade 463

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4 hours ago, Aqua Buddha said:

People forget how big Jordan was.  The clips of him in the locker room at MSG where they were normal people there, he towered over them but he was also big at that point in his career.

That Knick team was trash.  That was the low point of the 90's NBA.  Riley put that team together under the rules of the day with no consideration for offensive skill.  Starting lineup of Ewing, Oakley, Starks, Doc Rivers, and Charles Smith with Anthony Mason and a few other tough guys thrown in.  Maybe three of those guys even make the league that this point and they took the Bulls to the limit in the Eastern Conference Finals.

Cutting my NBA teeth on the 80s Lakers, it was shocking to see Riley coaching up a thug team.  But he coached to what he had and he did it well. 

 

Like all Bulls fans, I despised Sparks.  He was such a little punk...at least that's what he looked like on TV.  Saw that cat up close and personal at 95 All Star game in Phoenix, and realized he was a big, bad friggen man.

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Stunns38

Stunns38 3357

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I liked how he went after the nearest threat Clyde Drexler. 
"I got something for that dude" then scorched Clyde for 35 in the first half of game one. 
Love Clyde but he had no chance. 

The one thing I think was overlooked was that the Blazers-Bulls series wasn’t a breeze for the Bulls. The Blazers had a tough team with of course Drexler but Kersey, Porter, Robinson, Duckworth we’re pretty good. That Blazers home court then was scary too, probably the toughest place to play back then. The series was never in doubt but wasn’t as easy as indicated in ep 5.
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Wade

Wade 463

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24 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

in news that was just broken by Mike Sielski, Michael Jordan can hold a grudge.

No shit.  A cuck article by a cuck.  And did anyone notice Krause spewing his bullshit about what a great organization the Bulls were in the midst of the 2nd title celebration, not mentioning Jordan at all?  That short, fat fuck was he only person in the world who didn't understand who won those titles.

Not to mention he intentionally and with purpose ended one of the best sports dynasties in history, with the GOAT player, and before they had even lost a title.  That fat fuck deserves all the vitriol he got in this doc

Edited by Wade
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Grade of D as in David

Grade of D as in David 13253

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52 minutes ago, Wade said:

Cutting my NBA teeth on the 80s Lakers, it was shocking to see Riley coaching up a thug team.  But he coached to what he had and he did it well. 

 

Like all Bulls fans, I despised Sparks.  He was such a little punk...at least that's what he looked like on TV.  Saw that cat up close and personal at 95 All Star game in Phoenix, and realized he was a big, bad friggen man.

Hated him as well. Starks looks like the love child of Webster and Urkel. 

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MNLonghornFUKM

MNLonghornFUKM 8799

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Rakim and Nas when they're in NYC, OutKast when they're in Atlanta...too many others to remember, but yes, the soundtrack has been awesome.
edit: Oh yeah, last night they played "Connected" by Stereo MC's, one of my all time favorite songs. again, awesome soundtrack. 

Got goosebumps listening when Rosa parks came on. Love that song
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MNLonghornFUKM

MNLonghornFUKM 8799

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Cutting my NBA teeth on the 80s Lakers, it was shocking to see Riley coaching up a thug team.  But he coached to what he had and he did it well. 
 
Like all Bulls fans, I despised Sparks.  He was such a little punk...at least that's what he looked like on TV.  Saw that cat up close and personal at 95 All Star game in Phoenix, and realized he was a big, bad friggen man.

I’ve said this before but man the NBA is awesome when the garden is rocking and the knicks are relevant. There’s a “lol@ NY” sentiment amongst all of us but the knicks being good is great for TV. Even as an 8 seed. Hell of a lot better than the magic or hornets
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Goo Punch

Goo Punch 4275

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10 minutes ago, Wade said:

No shit.  A cuck article by a cuck.  And did anyone notice Krause spewing his bullshit about what a great organization the Bulls were in the midst of the 2nd title celebration, not mentioning Jordan at all?  That short, fat fuck was he only person in the world who didn't understand who won those titles.

Not to mention he intentionally and with purpose ended one of the best sports dynasties in history, with the GOAT player, and before they had even lost a title.  That fat fuck deserves all the vitriol he got in this doc

that shit was so crazy to me. in the fucking locker room, minutes after winning back to back titles he goes out of his way to say, "WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE, I AM!!!!" what a fucking troll. he reaped what he sowed. 

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UDontKnow

UDontKnow 10439

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2 hours ago, Stunns38 said:


The one thing I think was overlooked was that the Blazers-Bulls series wasn’t a breeze for the Bulls. The Blazers had a tough team with of course Drexler but Kersey, Porter, Robinson, Duckworth we’re pretty good. That Blazers home court then was scary too, probably the toughest place to play back then. The series was never in doubt but wasn’t as easy as indicated in ep 5.

Rick Adelman deserved at least one NBA title with the Blazers and one NBA title with the Kings - don't get me started on the 2002 NBA Playoffs. Ugh.

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