Tackling

[Beer Horn 93]

Fyi For coaches on this board please reply.
I have coached  hs football for over 30 yrs. We we have had games where we have not tackled well aka tackle like shit. We always address it the next few weeks. Not saying we go full speed but work on angles, tracking the hip, come to balance, finish ( (vs a ball carrier, donut, sled, or something).

We work tackling everyday in Indy so does it look like the UT staff puts a focus on this.  Because I don’t see it happening in games. 
Thanks and good night. 

[cactusflinthead 27,594]

I too would like some answers to the question of piss poor tackling.

[USNALonghorn 5,024]

We need a bye week, badly. Focus on tackling drills, pursuit angles, and shedding blocks. Bring in Gerg, if necessary. 

[ClubWhatever 12,087]

I think it’s an athleticism issue.  We have lots of guys playing D that aren’t good enough athletes to tackle really good D1 skill talent.  I could say names but pretty much everyone knows who they are.  

[SmokeyTheBear 5,562]

"Tackling is a problem in America right now. I'm not making excuses for us, we gotta tackle better." 

Edited October 10, 2021 by SmokeyTheBear

[Beer Horn 93]

Just now, SmokeyTheBear said:

Tackling is a problem in America right now. I'm not making excuses for us, we gotta tackle better.

This is true but the answer is to not recruit better tacklers but teach them how to tackle. IMO

[Ghost of Shag 2,582]

Good thread.

[Beer Horn 93]

5 minutes ago, ClubWhatever said:

I think it’s an athleticism issue.  We have lots of guys playing D that aren’t good enough athletes to tackle really good D1 skill talent.  I could say names but pretty much everyone knows who they are.  

might be true if we were the only D1 schools offering.  But these guys are not 2 stars. They have offers from many other good programs. At some point tackling and tech need to be focused on on instead of alignment and assignment. You have to have all working together.

[SmokeyTheBear 5,562]

8 minutes ago, Beer Horn said:

This is true but the answer is to not recruit better tacklers but teach them how to tackle. IMO

Some might say we should kill ourselves in recruiting to solve the issue

[hookem48 4,631]

I blame Sportscenter

[Surly Bevo 24,696]

Two things:

1.  MS and HS don't spend a lot of time on tackling other than to show correct form not to injure yourself/the other player.  HS practices and off-season work is so much more limited both time and contact wise than it was 10-20 years ago so a lot of players come to college without the shitload of tackling reps they used to have by the time they step foot on campus

2.  The kids who step foot on campuses and get meaningful playing time at a high D1/FBS level were often so far and away the best athletes (bigger, stronger, faster) than anybody they were facing on Friday nights that that lack of year after year repetition "hitting and tackling" in practice doesn't have a lot of consequence in their game as they just bring it bigger/stronger/faster and that's more than enough.

So then they get to college where that bigger/stronger/faster advantage is sizably if not completely removed and well....there it is.  

 

[Beer Horn 93]

4 minutes ago, Surly Bevo said:

Two things:

1.  MS and HS don't spend a lot of time on tackling other than to show correct form not to injure yourself/the other player.  HS practices and off-season work is so much more limited both time and contact wise than it was 10-20 years ago so a lot of players come to college without the shitload of tackling reps they used to have by the time they step foot on campus

2.  The kids who step foot on campuses and get meaningful playing time at a high D1/FBS level were often so far and away the best athletes (bigger, stronger, faster) than anybody they were facing on Friday nights that that lack of year after year repetition "hitting and tackling" in practice doesn't have a lot of consequence in their game as they just bring it bigger/stronger/faster and that's more than enough.

So then they get to college where that bigger/stronger/faster advantage is sizably if not completely removed and well....there it is.  

 

I will agree somewhat. But where I coach we do tackling type drills everyday. We do not tackle live in practice due to Uil rules to full contact and injury possibly. But there are so many other aspects to tackling that can be worked daily that should be that would help. These guys get paid a shit ton of $ so what do I know. 

[ousux 5,587]

What is this exotic thing you call "tackling?" Seems like something that could be usefully employed during a game of collegiate college football..or football at any level to be honest.

Tell me more please..

[Surly Bevo 24,696]

2 minutes ago, Beer Horn said:

I will agree somewhat. But where I coach we do tackling type drills everyday. We do not tackle live in practice due to Uil rules to full contact and injury possibly. But there are so many other aspects to tackling that can be worked daily that should be that would help. These guys get paid a shit ton of $ so what do I know. 

Yea and I get the live tackling but it's like a batter in baseball.  He can have awesome form and do all the right things hitting it off the tee or soft toss and then all those mechanics go to hell when somebody is actively trying to strike him out.  Not sure there is a way to fix it at least at the lower levels because I do think the move to reduce the contact is not only the right move for the kids involved but the future of the sport.  

[bschoolprof 6,232]

Some of our tackling woes are due to being out of position. Most are due to bad fundamentals. That falls on the coaches. Period. 
 

 

[Beer Horn 93]

1 minute ago, Surly Bevo said:

Yea and I get the live tackling but it's like a batter in baseball.  He can have awesome form and do all the right things hitting it off the tee or soft toss and then all those mechanics go to hell when somebody is actively trying to strike him out.  Not sure there is a way to fix it at least at the lower levels because I do think the move to reduce the contact is not only the right move for the kids involved but the future of the sport.  

This is very true. No way to replicate in game situations. Only way is to have tackling drills that try to replicate in game as much as possible. Getting off blocks and tracking and tackling (or fitting up on a tackle)

[The Triple Lindy 56]

I think part of the problem is the mindset of the kids. Blowing someone up on the tackle is cooler than the fundamental wrap up. I think they end up just throwing their bodies at opponent in hopes of knocking them down from the collision. I wish we would just get back to the fundamentals and wrap up. I was having Manny Diaz flash backs watching this piss poor tackling.

[tantric superman 4,667]

I tackled someone once and had a crick in my neck for a week.

It was Smear the Queer and saying that now doesn't seem too progressive.

[Dbeasy 14,970]

Some of the tackling issues I see are the result of being out of position to make the tackle against a superior athlete. 

With that said, how many more times are we going to watch a player: a) fly past a ballcarrier because they sprinted too fast towards them and didn’t stop or slowdown to react to the ball carrier’s move (looking at you Overshown); b) launch into the ball carrier without actually grabbing them (looking at you Foster); c) grab the ball carrier up high with the arms and proceed to have the ball carrier drag them five yards downfield (looking at you entire secondary)  

[hookem48 4,631]

I think we suck at tackling because we don't like to do it.

[South Austin 52,148]

22 hours ago, SmokeyTheBear said:

"Tackling is a problem in America right now. I'm not making excuses for us, we gotta tackle better." 

[DFW Horn 6,118]

1. We need to go back to whatever scheme we ran against Utah in the Alamo Bowl. That worked. 4 DL with gap responsibility/penetration?

2. Tell PK, Choate, and Gideon to watch this Seahawks Tackling video with the defense. 

 

[hayden_horn 11,360]

this is a big issue that i actually don't understand, because i played football in the early nineties. our fucking meathead dumbass coach told us "see what you are hitting and wrap up."

that solves two problems: targeting and tackling. this is basic fucking shit. if you turn yourself into a human missile, you should be on the bench. arms out, wrap up, head to the side, see what you are hitting. 

[DFW Horn 6,118]

3 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

this is a big issue that i actually don't understand, because i played football in the early nineties. our fucking meathead dumbass coach told us "see what you are hitting and wrap up."

that solves two problems: targeting and tackling. this is basic fucking shit. if you turn yourself into a human missile, you should be on the bench. arms out, wrap up, head to the side, see what you are hitting. 

Every dumbass, meathead coach said this. Even in the 80's when I played.

They were right then, and it's still correct today. The rugby style tackling works if your goal is to take the ball carrier down.

[VirginiaLonghorn 4,750]

Tackling?  Texas?

Since when do we talk hypothetical shit around here?

[sith_horn 2,370]

22 hours ago, ClubWhatever said:

I think it’s an athleticism issue.  We have lots of guys playing D that aren’t good enough athletes to tackle really good D1 skill talent.  I could say names but pretty much everyone knows who they are.  

I don't agree. Overshown and Foster are two cases in point. Neither are good tacklers. They use poor technique. Overshown makes a lot of tackles, but not the best way. He misses a lot more tackles than he should because of poor technique. He relies on launching himself too much. He's better than Foster, but similar in a lot of respects. Look no further than what Bill Snyder use to get out of lower tier talent at K-St. They played sound fundamental football which overcomes a lot against teams that don't.

[Had Enough 2,057]

Got a middle schooler. Bigger school. They don’t practice a helluva lot and seemingly tackle very little in practice. Their tackling ain’t the 80s and 90s variety.

I have to think they aren’t the exception.

[Blackcat00 759]

Foster is playing to not get hurt and you can see it. His FRESH year it looked like he was shot out of a missile but would miss 3 weeks due to his body being beat to shit. Have to try and play with discipline but physical. 

[Blackcat00 759]

7 minutes ago, Had Enough said:

Got a middle schooler. Bigger school. They don’t practice a helluva lot and seemingly tackle very little in practice. Their tackling ain’t the 80s and 90s variety.

I have to think they aren’t the exception.

I was in 7th 8th grade in 1993 1994. We would work on this for about 30 minutes then try and fuck the other guys up. 

Now every minute of Junior High/Middle school practices might as well be 7 on 7 focusing on setting up an offense that matches the HS program. 

Edited October 11, 2021 by Blackcat00

[sith_horn 2,370]

23 hours ago, Surly Bevo said:

Two things:

1.  MS and HS don't spend a lot of time on tackling other than to show correct form not to injure yourself/the other player.  HS practices and off-season work is so much more limited both time and contact wise than it was 10-20 years ago so a lot of players come to college without the shitload of tackling reps they used to have by the time they step foot on campus.

I've no doubt that coaching has changed a lot in that respect. I wonder if anyone plays tackle the man with the football anymore. Or king on top of the hill. Or just play neighborhood games of tackle football without any pads. I sure don't see anything like it around here when I'm out and about at the park or in the neighborhood. In sixth grade I learned proper form tackling and it didn't really take but a single practice to pick it up. So in that respect, I'm still baffled by such poor tackling. The stuff isn't rocket science. On the other hand, I was already a pretty good tackler before coach demonstrated the finer points because of the rough and tumble playing we did as a kids. That's how boys played back in the day.

[jimmyjazz 45,560]

So is the problem that modern D1 programs don't have the time and talent to tackle well, or is the problem that Texas seems to have an abundance of bad tacklers relative to other D1 programs?

I see the fact that we are always competing for (and landing a good portion of) blue chip HS players as the top D1 programs as evidence that we are doing a lesser job of teaching and training.  All these references to time spent tackling in MS/HS are a smokescreen.  Every top D1 program is fishing the same lake, it's just that some of them know how to actually cook the fish they catch.  We don't, and systemically so.

Edited October 11, 2021 by jimmyjazz

[jeevsie 3,723]

Tackling is something we should do every game. Maybe even ever series.  I might even go so far as to say every play.

[USNALonghorn 5,024]

After watching the past 10 years of Texas play defense, tackling seems like a DC tome management issue. Every college coach knows exactly how much time they’ll get with their respective position groups. It seems like the majority of our defensive coordinators have been so obsessed with installing their “innovative” or “exotic” schemes that they’ve placed the basics on the back burner. Tackling, block shedding, and coverage drills don’t seem sexy to a DC that thinks he’s the mad scientist of teaching defense. These basics skills are what produce elite defenses out of groups of talented athletes. I hope I’m wrong, but this is the vibe I’m getting from PK.

[ousux 5,587]

Tackling is something we should do every game. Maybe even ever series.  I might even go so far as to say every play.

Even when we're on offense? Bold strategy, but I'm up for trying anything at this point.

[Had Enough 2,057]

So is the problem that modern D1 programs don't have the time and talent to tackle well, or is the problem that Texas seems to have an abundance of bad tacklers relative to other D1 programs?
I see the fact that we are always competing for (and landing a good portion of) blue chip HS players as the top D1 programs as evidence that we are doing a lesser job of teaching and training.  All these references to time spent tackling in MS/HS are a smokescreen.  Every top D1 program is fishing the same lake, it's just that some of them know how to actually cook the fish they catch.  We don't, and systemically so.

This isn’t specific to us. Ole Miss and Pig put up 50+ too. The Ags got 41. You don’t score that many points without missed tackles.

When Bijan is making guys miss, we acknowledge him as a badass but not the poor tackling. Is it a little of both?

Well TCU dude Evans will be an NFL guy. You won’t play at OU unless you can break tackles or make guys miss. Brooks is a short dude so that’s harder on a tackler when the RB has skills. Really we did ok on Brooks until late. And having to account for Williams was something we didn’t prepare for.

You can’t headhunt these days so yeah defenders are less aggressive on the whole. Any 80s or 90s dudes played defense in a box. Damn near everybody spreads you out these days and makes you chase.

But he’ll yeah we need to tackle better. The best cure is to be bigger, stronger, quicker and faster. That ain’t us. Probably not anyone but Georgia. And iowa is pretty good too. But you need to see em week to week against more prolific offenses.

[jimmyjazz 45,560]

36 minutes ago, Had Enough said:

This isn’t specific to us. Ole Miss and Pig put up 50+ too. The Ags got 41. You don’t score that many points without missed tackles.

So this prompts the question, are we actually worse tacklers than most upper D1 programs, or has the whole art of tackling slipped?

 

Quote

But he’ll yeah we need to tackle better. The best cure is to be bigger, stronger, quicker and faster. That ain’t us.

It's pretty clear Sark agrees.  Our personnel aren't optimized for modern offenses, where the 7v7 pass-happy above all has given way to a somewhat more balanced run V pass, often-RPO style.  You don't have to listen to him long to understand that we need more size AND speed, and developed size and speed at that.  While it might be true that we are more tuned to B12 style offenses than SEC, going forward that is a moot point.  I expect him to emphasize the same player type and talent as UGA in the future, and I suspect he'll get there.  Right now he's playing with a bad hand.

[South Austin 52,148]

49 minutes ago, ousux said:

Even when we're on offense? Bold strategy, but I'm up for trying anything at this point.

I'd like to see our offensive linemen wrap up better when trying to take Bijan down.

[Longhornlove 4,779]

If they played Tackle 7 on 7 growing up, it would eliminate the need for this entire thread. Pussy ass touch football ain't gonna cut it. You want to be good at tackling, take the pads and helmet off and get after it.

Edited October 11, 2021 by Longhornlove

[UTEX_ME 4,754]

The whole team needs to watch this. And then refuel with iced cold Coca-Cola. 

[squeegeedegg 723]

How much time does a new coaching staff spend in one off-season teaching their scheme and assignments vs shit like tackling fundamentals?  I have to think that with limited time, you have to focus on assignments and practicing formations and concepts, and tackling fundamentals are things you hope a college player can stay disciplined enough to execute at a functional minimum once they get the scheme down.  In practice, the defense has a lot of JAGs that should never be starting for a healthy blue blood program, and some decent players that are going against other decent or elite players more than capable of making them miss.   We have not evaluated, recruited, or developed at an acceptable level over the past 4 years at least of Tom Herman / Orlando on defense (among other positions but that's a different thread)  PK and Choate have done an OK job teaching concepts and my litmus for that is # of blown coverages or getting set by the time the offense snaps the ball.   Orlando after 3 years and Ash in his one year all had more lost players and more guys running completely free.  Ash had better players starting both at the DLine, LB and Safety in 2020 than the 2021 group.  

[Had Enough 2,057]

It's pretty clear Sark agrees.  Our personnel aren't optimized for modern offenses, where the 7v7 pass-happy above all has given way to a somewhat more balanced run V pass, often-RPO style.  You don't have to listen to him long to understand that we need more size AND speed, and developed size and speed at that.  While it might be true that we are more tuned to B12 style offenses than SEC, going forward that is a moot point.  I expect him to emphasize the same player type and talent as UGA in the future, and I suspect he'll get there.  Right now he's playing with a bad hand.

Absent any specific analysis, I would say across the board tackling is down. Targeting alone makes guys more cautious than they used to be. You’ve got to play fast because a half step is the difference between missing and making the tackle. In our case, maybe the new scheme still has us a bit slow due to thinking rather than reacting. But honestly I don’t know that. Maybe we’re terrible with no chance of improving. I don’t believe that to be the case.

Much of anything is about reps too. I’d venture to say guys entering college now have fewer reps at tackling than anytime in the last 50 years. And I wouldn’t think as a collegian they’re getting more reps than prior generations either.

To me the best thing we can try to do is get more people to the ball quicker.

Two contrasting plays. Bijan versus Pig. 4th and 1. First guy doesn’t take him down and really made no effort to wrap him up. Guys 2 and 3 cleaned up. Then OU 4th and 1. Thompson misses and we have no one to clean up. TD.

Right now Georgia is just mauling people. But a lot of that is SEC recruiting tactics. Those types of dudes are the goal.

[F250 28,691]

Tackling has changed a lot over the last ten years. Nobody is learning to tackle like the 80's, 90's, or 2000's anymore. Hitting drills have pretty much gone out the door too. Football has changed since the CTE issue became public. It has nothing to do with kids being softer or anything like that. The game is in the process of evolving and not everyone has figured out how to address tackling in this new era.

As @jimmyjazz pointed out, everyone is recruiting from the same talent pool but only a few are excelling defensively. This isn't a talent pool problem it's a coaching problem.

 

[Coelenterate Fuccboi 13,010]

I’m a big fan of the BJ Foster tackling method. Tuck arms, lower head, launch, and hope the guy your trying to tackle doesn’t move or jump over you.

[LarryMoeSurly 411]

OU had plenty of poor tackling technique also.  I fact, most of the teams outside of Arkie seem to think pushing a guy hard on his shoulder pads is enough to bring him down. I’d say it’s across the board but we notice it more here because we watch more of our games. 

[alphahorn 1,637]

Saturday wasn't as much about tackling as it was about scheme.  See my post in the PK thread.  This was like going back in time to 1984 where Fred Akers outcoached Paterno/Sandusky with an unbalanced line. On the walk off run we didn't fucking touch him. last time I checked you needed to touch the fucking runner to miss the tackle

[RoyalBevo21 719]

We currently have the 109th ranked rush defense. As a lot of you have pointed out, stopping the run is all about getting hats to the ball and getting off of blocks early. I hate these damn coaches that just fall in love with window dressing. I'll never be convinced otherwise that if PK just threw out every defensive alignment outside of "Base, 3rd & Long, and Goal line" packages and just focused essentially 90% of the defensive practice on fundamentals such as proper tackling, angle of pursuit, and getting off of blocks. This defense would improve from 109th to at least some where in the 60's (which would've been good enough to win Saturday)

Coaches in the modern era seem to lack awareness. It's all about forcing what they want to run vs what to run with what you have. Adjust and set up the guys you have to be successful, don't try and run a system that needs Georgia's players to be successful.

[Eggo 3,975]

39 minutes ago, alphahorn said:

Saturday wasn't as much about tackling as it was about scheme.  See my post in the PK thread.  This was like going back in time to 1984 where Fred Akers outcoached Paterno/Sandusky with an unbalanced line. On the walk off run we didn't fucking touch him. last time I checked you needed to touch the fucking runner to miss the tackle

I'm not sure if this is 100% accurate. I'd like to go back and count how many times we got to Caleb Williams or Kennedy Brooks but were unable to bring them down. Too many times I started yelling "Finally! A sack/TFL!" just for the fucker to slip or barrel his way out. We were able to get Rattler down, but Williams was a different animal.

[alphahorn 1,637]

3 minutes ago, Eggo said:

I'm not sure if this is 100% accurate. I'd like to go back and count how many times we got to Caleb Williams or Kennedy Brooks but were unable to bring them down. Too many times I started yelling "Finally! A sack/TFL!" just for the fucker to slip or barrel his way out. We were able to get Rattler down, but Williams was a different animal.

well what do you not believe is 100% accurate? the missed tackles is off the NFL site that has all the metrics

[Eggo 3,975]

2 minutes ago, alphahorn said:

well what do you not believe is 100% accurate? the missed tackles is off the NFL site that has all the metrics

The part about it not being tackling and just being scheme. There were plenty of times the defender got to the carrier, but couldn't stop them. 

Speaking of stats - apparently we had just as many TFLs as OU did on Saturday. They only had one additional sack on us. 

[hookem48 4,631]

53 minutes ago, alphahorn said:

Saturday wasn't as much about tackling as it was about scheme.  See my post in the PK thread.  This was like going back in time to 1984 where Fred Akers outcoached Paterno/Sandusky with an unbalanced line. On the walk off run we didn't fucking touch him. last time I checked you needed to touch the fucking runner to miss the tackle

Sark said it wasn't the scheme, it was guys trying to make a play and not staying in the scheme