Texas BBQ

[LCHorn 2615]

I remember when brisket was at $19 a lb at J Mueller BBQ and I thought that was expensive..:

[HenryJames 66038]

You sound poor.

[HenryJames 66038]

But seriously it would be nice if pitmasters could go back to making good brisket from less than prime beef.

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

1. $31 is on the cheap side now. Many places charging $35-36/lbs.

2. They had a burger in the menu and HJ didn’t order it. Are we win an alternate timeline now?

[HornOnTheBayou 8917]

I'm going to Lockhart tomorrow for my kid's soccer game. I haven't been there in years, so where should I go for lunch? Is Kreuz's still #1 there?

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

I'm going to Lockhart tomorrow for my kid's soccer game. I haven't been there in years, so where should I go for lunch? Is Kreuz's still #1 there?

Black’s. But you know what they say about opinions.

[CooterBrown 18004]

I think it's more sustainable at the moment than opening up another Cen-Tex style bbq joint, at least for them. This isn't the traditional Texas BBQ scene anymore. Texans dig pork ribs, and Goldee's has the clout. Wouldn't surprised if this doesn't become a trend. 

I’m surprised a smoked burger joint hasn’t become a standalone thing yet.

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

I’m surprised a smoked burger joint hasn’t become a standalone thing yet.

Tejas has one a couple of blocks away from their bbq joint.

[Jerry Callo 8699]

Black’s. But you know what they say about opinions.

Terry Black's >>> Original Black's

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

Terry Black's >>> Original Black's

Well yeah. But Black’s is better than Kreuz.

[sith_horn 2379]

1 hour ago, CooterBrown said:

I’m surprised a smoked burger joint hasn’t become a standalone thing yet.

There used to be a place in Odessa, TX on the Andrews Highway if I'm recalling correctly, called Corky's. They made a mesquite smoked burger. The ground beef was thoroughly smoked. Tasty it was. They also had superb peach cobbler and ice cream which I always got along with the burger and fries.

[Texzilla58 4732]

You don’t eat only at the Waffle House in Odessa? Or is that Midland?

[sith_horn 2379]

28 minutes ago, Texzilla58 said:

You don’t eat only at the Waffle House in Odessa? Or is that Midland?

Nyet. I couldn't tell you where one is located in either locale. There was also a Furr's cafeteria in Odessa back then. This was quite a while back. I made the mistake of stopping at some BBQ joint in Midland, I think, and ordered tea with the meal. I can't remember whether the 'cue was any good or not, because the experience was eclipsed by the Gawd awful ice tea made with their putrid tap water. Could not believe anyone would have the audacity to serve crap like that. Most restaurants there use reverse osmosis water because the local tap is so bad.

[futureman 22444]

7 hours ago, Patricio Swayze said:

1. $31 is on the cheap side now. Many places charging $35-36/lbs.

2. They had a burger in the menu and HJ didn’t order it. Are we win an alternate timeline now?

B Cooper is under $30/lb.  I think it's $28.  and it's great.

[CooterBrown 18004]

Valentina's is supposedly bouncing payroll checks so they're probably not long for this world.

[DallasSooner 278]

On 10/21/2023 at 11:22 AM, LCHorn said:

I remember when brisket was at $19 a lb at J Mueller BBQ and I thought that was expensive..:

Did you tell him?

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

Valentina's is supposedly bouncing payroll checks so they're probably not long for this world.

Damn. It’s been a minute since I have eaten there (because of their move south and Leroy & Lewis is awesome), but that sucks to hear.

[tx 3 putt 76873]

27 minutes ago, CooterBrown said:

Valentina's is supposedly bouncing payroll checks so they're probably not long for this world.

my dad and brother stopped in the Friday on the way to Texas / OU, 12:15 or so. Place wasn’t busy and they were out ribs and sausage 

[jimmyjazz 45889]

That just reeks of FAFO -- take a good business model, expand it, and suffer the consequences.  Hope I'm wrong.

[Jerry Callo 8699]

4 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

That just reeks of FAFO -- take a good business model, expand it, and suffer the consequences.  Hope I'm wrong.

My fear as well.  The jump from a trailer to a brick and mortar is a big one.  They went all in with a gorgeous new location with ~$500k worth of incentives from the City of Buda.  The number of extra employees necessary to run the new operation had to be significant. 

I've been to the new location once and it was great.  I usually get my Valentina's fix at Q2 during home soccer matches.  I'm worried that both are in jeopardy at this point if they are bouncing payroll checks. 

[DallasSooner 278]

When you run a food truck you need what say six employees max?  The jump to a big brick and mortar which this is probably takes what 25 or more?  Just the jump in responbislibies in increasing in food and now the increase in labor issues (quality of employee, employees showing up for work, employees getting along, etc.) has to be a huge increase in time constraints on running your business.  

I was wondered about the places out in Royse City when they opened up because there is a Bucess out there that you know pays really well for hourly emplyees and I wondered if the BBQ joints would be able to hire and retain good employees. 

[Deej 76755]

2 hours ago, CooterBrown said:

Valentina's is supposedly bouncing payroll checks so they're probably not long for this world.

Time to start stealing tips again. 

[tx 3 putt 76873]

4 hours ago, DallasSooner said:

When you run a food truck you need what say six employees max?  The jump to a big brick and mortar which this is probably takes what 25 or more?  Just the jump in responbislibies in increasing in food and now the increase in labor issues (quality of employee, employees showing up for work, employees getting along, etc.) has to be a huge increase in time constraints on running your business.  

I was wondered about the places out in Royse City when they opened up because there is a Bucess out there that you know pays really well for hourly emplyees and I wondered if the BBQ joints would be able to hire and retain good employees. 

they went over the top on their new building. Crazy 

Some taqueria will take it over and crush it 

[Deej 76755]

Just because you can smoke a good brisket doesn't mean you have any business running a business.

 

[ut74 72]

Pinkertons BBQ on CBS morning show about 830 am today

[Texzilla58 4732]

Just because you can smoke a good brisket doesn't mean you have any business running a business.
 

I think we have a bbq bubble about to bust out. Cracks are starting to show. The Valentina’s situation I think is common. Have successful trailer, get the big head from Daniel Vaughn and the food media, get some investors and take on a massive bricks operation, and the lines go away. They also didn’t move down the street but down the road and I imagine didn’t budget shit for marketing and thinking their fanatic customer base would follow them anywhere. Nope.

Hurtado was shut down a few weeks ago by Ft Worth Health inspectors. Fucking arrogance in thinking you’re a big time operator, and can make a go in a proven shit location that ran Derek Allen out of the industry.

Ft Worth area is oversaturated with great bbq joints. With inflation hitting so many they have to be seeing a slowdown

[Trey3216 15345]

6 hours ago, Texzilla58 said:

I think we have a bbq bubble about to bust out. Cracks are starting to show. The Valentina’s situation I think is common. Have successful trailer, get the big head from Daniel Vaughn and the food media, get some investors and take on a massive bricks operation, and the lines go away. They also didn’t move down the street but down the road and I imagine didn’t budget shit for marketing and thinking their fanatic customer base would follow them anywhere. Nope.

Hurtado was shut down a few weeks ago by Ft Worth Health inspectors. Fucking arrogance in thinking you’re a big time operator, and can make a go in a proven shit location that ran Derek Allen out of the industry.

Ft Worth area is oversaturated with great bbq joints. With inflation hitting so many they have to be seeing a slowdown

I 100% agree with you.  It's been teetering for a few years now, but when every "first place brisket" winner at the county fair starts opening up a brick and mortar joint, and spending wayyyyyyyyy too much money doing it, the shark's been jumped.  

[Frank Drebin 5660]

40 minutes ago, Trey3216 said:

I 100% agree with you.  It's been teetering for a few years now, but when every "first place brisket" winner at the county fair starts opening up a brick and mortar joint, and spending wayyyyyyyyy too much money doing it, the shark's been jumped.  

You need to know how to run a business.  Pinkerton's does well with their bar, their catering, and their online products (seasonings and sauce).

[Trey3216 15345]

20 minutes ago, Frank Drebin said:

You need to know how to run a business.  Pinkerton's does well with their bar, their catering, and their online products (seasonings and sauce).

There’s a big difference between knowing how to run a business, and how to run the restaurant business.   

[deft 6841]

Piece of cake.

1. Steal tips.
2. …….
3. Profit?

[Texzilla58 4732]

There’s a big difference between knowing how to run a business, and how to run the restaurant business.

I’d add that there is a difference between knowing how to run a restaurant business, and how to run a barbecue restaurant business.

There is a reason old timey barbecue was basically built around butchers selling meat scraps, that was basically a little extra profit to help pay for fuel and labor. Regardless of how much revenue these joints bring in with $35/lb brisket and $6 sides, their margins suck balls because of high food costs, waste, labor, fuel. Add the stupidity of moving from a cheap trailer or shack to fancy real estate, a couple of bad days can flip your month into the red fast.

Pecan Lodge was so good in the Farmers Market. The move to Derp Ellen has killed quality. I don’t know how they survive. Hurtado and Heim both seem hell bent on pushing their enterprises over the edge with new locations and expanded hours. Can Dayne’s support the move to Brix. Will Sunbird make it in bricks.

There was a reason bbq was often a shack on the wrong side of town with a pit, a Coke box, and a rack of chips. Because they didn’t make much money. You want to make money sell breakfast (eggs and hotcakes).

[Deej 76755]

3 hours ago, Trey3216 said:

There’s a big difference between knowing how to run a business, and how to run the restaurant business.   

You would think some of these folks would understand it is worth paying someone who knows what the fuck they are doing before moving forward. 

[Texzilla58 4732]

It’s not just bbq. Most new restaurants are failures because they are opened by morons with a lack of experience and equal lack of capital.

[Trey3216 15345]

2 hours ago, Texzilla58 said:

 

I’d add that there is a difference between knowing how to run a restaurant business, and how to run a barbecue restaurant business.

There is a reason old timey barbecue was basically built around butchers selling meat scraps, that was basically a little extra profit to help pay for fuel and labor. Regardless of how much revenue these joints bring in with $35/lb brisket and $6 sides, their margins suck balls because of high food costs, waste, labor, fuel. Add the stupidity of moving from a cheap trailer or shack to fancy real estate, a couple of bad days can flip your month into the red fast.

Pecan Lodge was so good in the Farmers Market. The move to Derp Ellen has killed quality. I don’t know how they survive. Hurtado and Heim both seem hell bent on pushing their enterprises over the edge with new locations and expanded hours. Can Dayne’s support the move to Brix. Will Sunbird make it in bricks.

There was a reason bbq was often a shack on the wrong side of town with a pit, a Coke box, and a rack of chips. Because they didn’t make much money. You want to make money sell breakfast (eggs and hotcakes).

 

Spot on

[Cajun 11705]

My cousin opened The Hoffbrau Steakhouse in SA down on Mulberry a few decades ago.  His idea was to go up against Josephine St for the Spurs crowd, among other things.  Dude was a very successful businessman in real estate and in the oil & gas game.  

Had the same menu and product as the one in ATX.  Exactly the same.

He went under in less than a year if I remember correctly.  That shit ate him alive.  He was divorced and completely bankrupt soon after.

/csb

[Deej 76755]

To be honest, as much as I loved The Hoffbrau, I can't see that translated outside of the original location.

[Anastasis 23463]

Looks like Valentina’s trying to generate some cash by offering gift cards with a 50% bonus up. 

[DalTxHornFan 3097]

1 hour ago, Deej said:

To be honest, as much as I loved The Hoffbrau, I can't see that translated outside of the original location.

There was one in Dallas near Highland Park.  It was decent, but I'll always remember that place as where I watched Fred Akers and the Longhorns lose to Rice on a rainy night.

[Etexhorn13 3045]

2 hours ago, Texzilla58 said:

It’s not just bbq. Most new restaurants are failures because they are opened by morons with a lack of experience and equal lack of capital.

I grew up in a restaurant that my parents ran for 43 years before retiring last December. Worked almost every job in that place as a child through adulthood… washed dishes, bussed tables, waited tables, almost every role in the kitchen… I say all that to say on a certain level I know what’s involved and how fucking hard it is to run a restaurant, much less a successful one. 
 

I worked at Sysco East Texas for a couple years after college to pay for going back for more school, and the amount of customers I had that had no fucking clue what they were doing and wouldn’t listen to some fresh faced college kid was probably 50%+. Not every fucking idiot that can cook a good burger or good bbq needs to open a restaurant, especially the small family business variety that is most bbq. That shit is hard as hell to be successful in. 

Edited October 26, 2023 by Etexhorn13

[Texzilla58 4732]

I worked in restaurants in high school and college and figured out quickly that while I loved cooking and food, there was nothing about being a chef I wanted to do.

Is like anything else. Folks say do something you love and you’ll never work a job. Bullshit. Lots of scratch golfers out there; few can get on a tee and hit the ball in front of a gallery. I was in the music business in Memphis; met tons of great musicians who either couldnt deal with a band or couldn’t get on stage or couldn’t entertain. And folks have a couple of dinner parties and get told, “you should open a restaurant!” A year later they have lost their house and are bankrupt.

It’s why I have such respect for a pitmaster that can make something as different as a brisket perfect and the same across 20 of them a day. I don’t know how they do it. But that extraordinary craft doesn’t translate into business expertise.

[Etexhorn13 3045]

While I think I’d be pretty good at the ownership/management of a restaurant , my parents always told my brother and me to never get in the restaurant business and I appreciate them for that. My dad was the chef and my mom ran the front of house/books for all those years so that was fortuitous for them, but even if you are a chef/owner (and a good chef, cook, whatever at that), there are just way too many variables to stake your livelihood in that business, imo. 
 

On a related note, if sunbird can manage quality, which I think they should be able to, I bet Longview will welcome that level of bbq with open arms now that they’re in town. That place was a good wasteland when I lived there for s few years. 

[DalTxHornFan 3097]

1 hour ago, Etexhorn13 said:

I grew up in a restaurant that my parents ran for 43 years before retiring last December. Worked almost every job in that place as a child through adulthood… washed dishes, bussed tables, waited tables, almost every role in the kitchen… I say all that to say on a certain level I know what’s involved and how fucking hard it is to run a restaurant, much less a successful one. 
 

I worked at Sysco East Texas for a couple years after college to pay for going back for more school, and the amount of customers I had that had no fucking clue what they were doing and wouldn’t listen to some fresh faced college kid was probably 50%+. Not every fucking idiot that can cook a good burger or good bbq needs to open a restaurant, especially the small family business variety that is most bbq. That shit is hard as hell to be successful in. 

Way too many places just heat up Sysco bags.  Gross.

[Etexhorn13 3045]

23 minutes ago, DalTxHornFan said:

Way too many places just heat up Sysco bags.  Gross.

Imagine being 22 and trying to teach some of these people how to cook a dish with fresh ingredients when everything else is fried or cooked from frozen… that was the 2 most miserable years of any job I’ve ever had

Edited October 26, 2023 by Etexhorn13

[deft 6841]

Heard chef

[tx 3 putt 76873]

17 hours ago, ut74 said:

Pinkertons BBQ on CBS morning show about 830 am today

 

 

[HenryJames 66038]

11 hours ago, Cajun said:

My cousin opened The Hoffbrau Steakhouse in SA down on Mulberry a few decades ago.  His idea was to go up against Josephine St for the Spurs crowd, among other things.  Dude was a very successful businessman in real estate and in the oil & gas game.  

Had the same menu and product as the one in ATX.  Exactly the same.

He went under in less than a year if I remember correctly.  That shit ate him alive.  He was divorced and completely bankrupt soon after.

/csb

[Native Horn 3499]

11 hours ago, Anastasis said:

Looks like Valentina’s trying to generate some cash by offering gift cards with a 50% bonus up. 

I would recommend to those that purchase this deal to consider using them quickly.  

[dcbc 14465]

16 hours ago, Trey3216 said:

There’s a big difference between knowing how to run a business, and how to run the restaurant business.   

I'm listening to the audiobook of Kitchen Confidential for the third time.  I love to cook, and I'm already hesitant to consider working in a kitchen after I retire since it seems like a way to ruin a perfectly good hobby.  But if I did ever decide to get into that business, I would most certainly want to work for someone else, and probably would aspire to be a dish washer or, at most, a prep cook.  The stress level any higher up the brigade sounds like it would kill me quick.  

.

I know myself.  I'm not fast.  My family and friends are patient when it comes to eating well-prepared food thankfully.

Edited October 26, 2023 by dcbc

[Trey3216 15345]

11 minutes ago, dcbc said:

I'm listening to the audiobook of Kitchen Confidential for the third time.  I love to cook, and I'm already hesitant to consider working in a kitchen after I retire since it seems like a way to ruin a perfectly good hobby.  But if I did ever decide to get into that business, I would most certainly want to work for someone else, and probably would aspire to be a dish washer or, at most, a prep cook.  The stress level any higher up the brigade sounds like it would kill me quick.  

.

I know myself.  I'm not fast.  My family and friends are patient when it comes to eating well-prepared food thankfully.

I turned a losing money mom & pop bbq shop into an absolute machine in 9 months, and got out because my investors refused to upgrade any equipment, refused to let me bring on a second full time person who would've enabled me to quadruple the amount of catering business I was doing, and wanted me to shut down any semblance of advertising.  They were good businessmen, just 100% didn't understand restaurants the way I did/do.  I was working 100+ hours/week and barely had time to eat, let alone do anything resembling living life.  

 

When I came to them asking for the number to buy them out, they gave me 2 weeks to get it done (this was on the day before thanksgiving, so really 10 days to get it done).  I came back 2 weeks later with an offer and an investor backer who was himself a very successful restauranteur, and we asked them until Dec 31 to get the legal docs drawn up.  They refused.  I threw them the keys and told them good luck.  They lost about 80% of their business overnight and sold it at a terrible loss about 8 months later.  Oh well, you want to be the gander, don't kill the fucking goose laying the golden eggs.  

[Mo Horn 8831]

16 minutes ago, dcbc said:

I'm listening to the audiobook of Kitchen Confidential for the third time.  I love to cook, and I'm already hesitant to consider working in a kitchen after I retire since it seems like a way to ruin a perfectly good hobby.  But if I did ever decide to get into that business, I would most certainly want to work for someone else, and probably would aspire to be a dish washer or, at most, a prep cook.  The stress level any higher up the brigade sounds like it would kill me quick.  

.

I know myself.  I'm not fast.  My family and friends are patient when it comes to eating well-prepared food thankfully.

I thought about the same thing, but read Michael Rhulman's The Making of a Chef, and quickly changed my mind. I love to cook, but it literally kills people who do it for a living. Maybe if I could get on with someone who does private catering, but would never do a restaurant.