Texas BBQ

[tx 3 putt 75521]

11 hours ago, Braff Zacklin said:

@Brisketexan is almost always moist. It usually begins by whispering words like Allsup's, parisa or, if you're really brave, chicharrón in his ear.

[C-Man 26734]

PSA for anybody thinking of a Snow’s run in the coming weeks. They will be closed 4/27, 5/4 and 5/18. I think Kerry’s daughter is getting married one of those weekends and then there’s a town-wide event in Lexington that makes it tough for them to operate as normal. I’m not sure why they’re closed the other weekend.

Would hate to see somebody go all the way there only to find it closed.

[Jerry Callo 8631]

12 minutes ago, C-Man said:

PSA for anybody thinking of a Snow’s run in the coming weeks. They will be closed 4/27, 5/4 and 5/18. I think Kerry’s daughter is getting married one of those weekends and then there’s a town-wide event in Lexington that makes it tough for them to operate as normal. I’m not sure why they’re closed the other weekend.

Would hate to see somebody go all the way there only to find it closed.

Troubadour Festival is on May 18th.  I would love to go, but its in College Station.

[futureman 22353]

Goode looks not good. 

[jimmyjazz 45206]

I ate there once for a rehearsal dinner.  It was phenomenally bad.

[deft 6749]

Find his video of him reviewing Franklin. He lets out a gutteral “daaamnn” after the first bite. Quite the contrast.

[Frank The Tank 1438]

On 4/16/2024 at 8:59 PM, Brisketexan said:

Yeah…there’s only one place to eat in Marlin:

Great recommendation for a shit hole of a town. The fried chicken, okra and mashed potatoes and gravy were a welcome and delicious surprise. 

[hornfan785 548]

A tale as old as time. Become successful, expand beyond your means, product declines, then go out of business or change management. So long, Valentina's. I loved going to the trailer on Menchaca, but never made it to their place in Buda. 

https://www.facebook.com/share/MFmXGBPNT22vgK34/?mibextid=oFDknk

Quote

Loyal customers, 

 

When we started Valentina’s in 2013, our focus was two things: food + family. We wanted to make Tex Mex BBQ that would bring families together, while representing Tejano culture - the biggest inspiration for Valentina’s. That has never changed, even when we grew from a food truck to a brick-and-mortar. 

 

We’ve been at this for a long time, and we work really hard, but this last year has been harder than ever. Small business owners know that it’s never easy. For us, scaling our business from 600 sq. ft. to 6,000 sq. ft. has proven more than we can manage, and we recognize and admit to the many issues and challenges Valentina’s has had since we’ve moved. We can no longer continue to give our loyal customers sub par customer service and food. 

 

Starting on April 25th, Valentina’s will be under new management. We’ll be closed from today until May 8th as we make this transition. Don’t worry, you’ll still see us around smoking briskets in the silo, or coming up with a new drink for the menu, and we are going to come back stronger and better than ever. 

 

We want to thank you for your loyalty. If you have come by over the last year and didn’t have a great experience, we hope that you give us another chance. We KNOW we can do much better going forward. We’re excited for this new chapter, where we get back to the heart of Valentina’s - food + family, hecho con amor. 

 

Thank you all so much for continuing to support our family business. We couldn’t have made it this far without y’all. 

 

Miguel & Modesty Vidal Vidal

 

[Jerry Callo 8631]

I loved Valentina's.  Always good at the trailer.  Always good at the Austin FC games.  They struggled from day one when they opened the new, large location in Buda.  I've been to the Buda joint three times.  First time was excellent.  Second time was embarrassing.   Final time was just okay.

[HenryJames 65560]

[CooterBrown 17759]

When Blacks took over the AFC spot this season, I knew they weren’t long for this world.

[HenryJames 65560]

3 minutes ago, CooterBrown said:

When Blacks took over the AFC spot this season, I knew they weren’t long for this world.

Racist, imo.

[Deej 76218]

11 minutes ago, Jerry Callo said:

I loved Valentina's.  Always good at the trailer.  Always good at the Austin FC games.  They struggled from day one when they opened the new, large location in Buda.  I've been to the Buda joint three times.  First time was excellent.  Second time was embarrassing.   Final time was just okay.

It's hard to stay up and running when you have to stop stealing your employees' tips. 

[tx 3 putt 75521]

[gofuckyourself 8066]

1 hour ago, tx 3 putt said:

Long overdue.

The new place was a disaster nearly from the get-go, and whoever was running it nearly destroyed that brand. They certainly harmed its reputation.

I was rooting for it living in the area and having known the food truck well for years. But the food and service here was routinely slower even than the food truck, or absurdly late (like 1 hour for two tacos in our experience) or never available -- that's not unusual for BBQ but if you have a big brick and mortar open 6 days a week you need to figure that out.

Staff looked confused or idle or disinterested a lot.

And old man thoughts, but the music was way too loud. Had to yell to have a conversation. 

Hope they turn it around.

[tx 3 putt 75521]

2 minutes ago, gofuckyourself said:

Long overdue.

The new place was a disaster nearly from the get-go, and whoever was running it nearly destroyed that brand. They certainly harmed its reputation.

I was rooting for it living in the area and having known the food truck well for years. But the food and service here was routinely slower even than the food truck, or absurdly late (like 1 hour for two tacos in our experience) or never available -- that's not unusual for BBQ but if you have a big brick and mortar open 6 days a week you need to figure that out.

Staff looked confused or idle or disinterested a lot.

And old man thoughts, but the music was way too loud. Had to yell to have a conversation. 

Hope they turn it around.

[tx 3 putt 75521]

It’s big difference preparing bbq for one batch sell off and preparing bbq for a business with lunch / dinner service 

[jimmyjazz 45206]

I'm no business expert, but I can't understand why someone wouldn't just double the initial investment -- build a second food truck, serve a different part of town.  It's likely a survivable mistake if it doesn't work out.

Edited April 25 by jimmyjazz

[tx 3 putt 75521]

4 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I'm no business expert, but I can't understand why someone wouldn't just double the initial investment -- build a second food truck, serve a different part of town.  It's like a survivable mistake if it doesn't work out.

 

ask some of the posters around here about investing in a bbq business 

 

#toosoon

[jimmyjazz 45206]

8 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

ask some of the posters around here about investing in a bbq business 

I seriously doubt anyone was bankrupted by that venture.

[tx 3 putt 75521]

1 minute ago, jimmyjazz said:

I seriously doubt anyone was bankrupted by that venture.

Multiple ventures

[DalTxHornFan 3071]

26 minutes ago, gofuckyourself said:

Long overdue.

The new place was a disaster nearly from the get-go, and whoever was running it nearly destroyed that brand. They certainly harmed its reputation.

I was rooting for it living in the area and having known the food truck well for years. But the food and service here was routinely slower even than the food truck, or absurdly late (like 1 hour for two tacos in our experience) or never available -- that's not unusual for BBQ but if you have a big brick and mortar open 6 days a week you need to figure that out.

Staff looked confused or idle or disinterested a lot.

And old man thoughts, but the music was way too loud. Had to yell to have a conversation. 

Hope they turn it around.

I drank free bourbon there one afternoon because they were short-staffed and didn't have anyone capable of operating the POS system.  Not that I am complaining about that afternoon!

[tx 3 putt 75521]

is La BBQ still open ?

[NoName 16241]

33 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I'm no business expert, but I can't understand why someone wouldn't just double the initial investment -- build a second food truck, serve a different part of town.  It's likely a survivable mistake if it doesn't work out.

yeah, turn the initial truck into your commissary kitchen, roll out a second truck somewhere else (Buda?) and grow that slowly

going from that food truck to 6,000 sq feet was setting them up to fail

[C-Man 26734]

On 4/20/2024 at 2:56 PM, Underdog said:

Nice bun, sandwich looks good too. 

[DallasSooner 277]

23 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

Multiple ventures

If you invested in multiple BBQ ventures and lost money I would question your investment strategy. Fool me once. 

[HRSchenker 2224]

Has a craft BBQ joint ever done a move + expanded hours without experiencing a decline in quality? I've never seen it in DFW. It's almost the kiss of death. 

[4th&Five 41242]

Franklin

[utee94 15722]

3 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

Franklin

Franklin didn't really extend its hours.  Still a serve-til-you're-out venture rather than attempting to support true dining room hours.

 

[tx 3 putt 75521]

10 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

Franklin

his quality never missed a beat 

[4th&Five 41242]

18 minutes ago, utee94 said:

Franklin didn't really extend its hours.  Still a serve-til-you're-out venture rather than attempting to support true dining room hours.

 

true but they upped their output a ton and the quality didn't suffer.  

[NoName 16241]

 

16 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

Franklin

 

12 minutes ago, utee94 said:

Franklin didn't really extend its hours.  Still a serve-til-you're-out venture rather than attempting to support true dining room hours.

 

 

5 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

his quality never missed a beat 

Franklin's has a very high quality standard.

also they absolutely did a huge expansion from a food truck style to the building - just on the # of smokers they were using/briskets smoking/etc

23 minutes ago, HRSchenker said:

Has a craft BBQ joint ever done a move + expanded hours without experiencing a decline in quality? I've never seen it in DFW. It's almost the kiss of death. 

looking at the last TMBBQ top 50 list's top 10:

• Goldees: opened B&M
• Interstellar: did they open in the strip mall?
• Truth: B&M in Brenham --> B&M in Houston
• Burnt Bean: opened B&M
• L&L: Food Truck --> B&M in 2024
• Cattleack: i think they opened at the B&M? not sure
• Franklin: Food Truck --> B&M
• Evie Mae: Food Truck --> B&M
• Snows: always been what it is today
• Panther City: Food Truck --> B&M

DFW has Daynes, Hurtado, Zavalas that i think all went Food Truck or pop up to B&M?

off the top of my head/looking at top 50 list

• 2M opened as a B&M but did popups?
• Sunbird was food truck now B&M
• Eaker was food truck in Houston, moved to Fredericksburg and opened a B&M then made top 50
• Guess Family was food truck to B&M
• Stanleys and Slow Bone opened as B&M i think

Pecan Lodge for me is the biggest example of the flip over to large B&M that just never worked out quality wise. they had huge issues with like quadrupling their pit space when they moved and someone told me their lease required them to do B&M hours vs a "sell out when you sell out" model

here is the prior top 50: https://www.texasmonthly.com/food/the-list-the-top-50-barbecue-joints-in-texas/

 

[DalTxHornFan 3071]

Craft BBQ, full hours, and a full bar operation seems to be a difficult puzzle to solve.  Valentina's has a great physical layout.  Perhaps they need to add other foods to round things out?

[utee94 15722]

14 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

true but they upped their output a ton and the quality didn't suffer.  

Sure but the model is still the same.  I'm not knocking the model, it works great for maintaining a very high level of quality.  But despite the increased quantity, Franklin still only serves until they are out, which ensures extremely low levels of waste and helps tremendously in maintaining quality.

It's a VERY different dynamic, than running a full restaurant with dining room hours open throughout the day and evening.  Which was the point of the original statement about that being a tough nut to crack for a lot of trailer operations that attempt to transition to full restaurants.

[Jerry Callo 8631]

15 minutes ago, NoName said:

Interstellar: did they open in the strip mall?

Yes.  John Bates switched from Noble Pig/Noble Sandwich Co. to InterStellar BBQ in the same space.  They have expanded the dining area, but that's about it.

[Jerry Callo 8631]

While growing from a food truck to a brick and mortar can be a problem, adding the dinner service seems to be the biggest gamble.  The increase in manpower necessary to go from "until sold out" to 2 meal services is exponential.  Valentina's not only did that, but they also added a bar and increased the size 10x.

It will be interesting to see how LeRoy & Lewis does.  Their model has always been based upon providing high quality, yet cheaper cuts of meat (beef cheeks and now chuck roasts and flat iron).  Rotating the protein special should help as well.  I think they'll be able to pull it off, but that full day service still might be a problem.

[utee94 15722]

10 minutes ago, NoName said:

 

• Interstellar: did they open in the strip mall?
• L&L: Food Truck --> B&M in 2024

 

Interstellar was never a trailer, the owners replaced Noble Pig with their BBQ concept in the same strip mall location.

L&L is going to be interesting to me.  I sincerely hope they can make the leap.  Maybe it helps that they're keeping the food truck open.

1 minute ago, Jerry Callo said:

While growing from a food truck to a brick and mortar can be a problem, adding the dinner service seems to be the biggest gamble.  

Absolutely.

[DalTxHornFan 3071]

I have some pretty close ties to a restaurant that for years only did 5-10 pm service 7 days a week.  Then their demographics changed and they decided to add lunch service M-F and do full service 11-10 on Saturday and Sunday.  It really changed their operations a bunch.  Additional managers and employees.  Not always easy to find people that can wave the flag as well the originals.

Edited April 25 by DalTxHornFan

[Mittens 8036]

40 minutes ago, NoName said:

• L&L: Food Truck --> B&M in 2024

We'll see how that goes.  As good as the food was when I went a couple of weeks back, their ordering process is all kinds of fucked up and backwards.  3 minute process takes 10 min easy.

[NoName 16241]

41 minutes ago, DalTxHornFan said:

Craft BBQ, full hours, and a full bar operation seems to be a difficult puzzle to solve.  Valentina's has a great physical layout.  Perhaps they need to add other foods to round things out?

editing to just talk about the full bar part of things.

Top 50 spots I think that have a full bar

• Pinkertons
• Terry Blacks
• Stanleys
• Truth in Houston
• Killens?
• L&L (new spot)

who else has a full bar that's in the top 50?

--
ignore this below, had to do with hours that Jimmy put together and i misunderstood something

Spoiler

glancing at smoking ho's top 50 chart w/ hours (not sure when it was last updated but it was updated when they released the last top 5) here is who is open on Tuesday w/o a "sold out" timestamp or until evening hours

• Baker Boys in Gonzales (10-6)
• Desert Oak in El Paso (11-7)
• Feges (11-9)
• Hays Co (11-7)
• Hutchins (11-9)
• Terry Black (11-9)

If you look at Wed, that adds:

• L&L (11-9)
• Guess Family (11-7)
• Helberg (11-8)
• Pinkertons (11-9)

Thursday only adds in Zavalas BBQ but they have a split lunch/dinner

edit: updating the "sold out" list

• Truth in Houston has a bar
• Corkscrew
• Kileens (full bar i believe)
• Smokey Joes in Dallas
•  

i think Terry Blacks and Pinkertons are the only ones who have a full bar?

edit: looks like the sold out thing may change things. Stanleys has full bar and is until sold out on M-Sat so re-checking and editing above

 

Edited April 25 by NoName

[tx 3 putt 75521]

18 minutes ago, NoName said:

editing to just talk about the full bar part of things.

Top 50 spots I think that have a full bar

• Pinkertons
• Terry Blacks
• Stanleys
• Truth in Houston
• Killens?
• L&L (new spot)

who else has a full bar that's in the top 50?

--
ignore this below, had to do with hours that Jimmy put together and i misunderstood something

  Reveal hidden contents

glancing at smoking ho's top 50 chart w/ hours (not sure when it was last updated but it was updated when they released the last top 5) here is who is open on Tuesday w/o a "sold out" timestamp or until evening hours

• Baker Boys in Gonzales (10-6)
• Desert Oak in El Paso (11-7)
• Feges (11-9)
• Hays Co (11-7)
• Hutchins (11-9)
• Terry Black (11-9)

If you look at Wed, that adds:

• L&L (11-9)
• Guess Family (11-7)
• Helberg (11-8)
• Pinkertons (11-9)

Thursday only adds in Zavalas BBQ but they have a split lunch/dinner

edit: updating the "sold out" list

• Truth in Houston has a bar
• Corkscrew
• Kileens (full bar i believe)
• Smokey Joes in Dallas
•  

i think Terry Blacks and Pinkertons are the only ones who have a full bar?

edit: looks like the sold out thing may change things. Stanleys has full bar and is until sold out on M-Sat so re-checking and editing above

 

pinkerton should have built a bigger bar / better lay out 

[HenryJames 65560]

1 hour ago, HRSchenker said:

Has a craft BBQ joint ever done a move + expanded hours without experiencing a decline in quality? I've never seen it in DFW. It's almost the kiss of death. 

Bill Miller's - @tx 3 putt probably

[tx 3 putt 75521]

Just now, HenryJames said:

Bill Miller's - @tx 3 putt probably

 Now i want tacos and fried chicken 

[Jerry Callo 8631]

30 minutes ago, NoName said:

who else has a full bar that's in the top 50?

If I remember correctly, Heim and Pecan Lodge have full bars. Both top 50 in 2017, downgraded to honorable mention in 2021.

[DallasSooner 277]

I also think you have to take in to account going from a trailer to a HUGE restaurant.  There maybe should be some kinda step up in scale but maybe not the huge leap some joints are trying. 

 

Sunbird is a pretty good description of going from a food truck to a building without trying to be the taj mahal in the process.  Sure if their business takes off they can always move/build at even bigger location.  

[DalTxHornFan 3071]

I get the whole idea of perfecting your craft and all that stuff. 

The truth is that there is likely way more money to be made from full bars than smoked brisket.

[irishtexan 11414]

Never went to the new location because I'm not driving down to Buda. But I heard it was a disaster. The wait times after ordering at the trailer were always ridiculous. The wait times when ordering online for pickup were even more absurd. I waited an hour and a half after the time they said it would be ready once. The food was amazing and they seem like great people, but they've ALWAYS struggled to be efficient with respect to their service. 

Then they moved into a 6000 square foot building and I knew they were going to fail. Heard absolutely terrible things about the experience at the new location, much of which has already been documented - absurdly long wait times, poor quality food, and the most common complaint I heard is that they just blasted the music so loud that people couldn't even have a conversation at the same table without yelling. That's an easy fix guys. 

[Jerry Callo 8631]

12 minutes ago, DallasSooner said:

I also think you have to take in to account going from a trailer to a HUGE restaurant.  There maybe should be some kinda step up in scale but maybe not the huge leap some joints are trying. 

Buda EDC offered several hundred thousand in incentives (I've seen $288-512k) for Valentina's to open in that big building.  That sounds like a bunch of money until its not.  I doubt Valentina's made all of the metrics to get all of the incentives.  I wouldn't be surprised if Valentina's hired and staffed more employees than were required just to try to make the requirements. 

[DalTxHornFan 3071]

2 minutes ago, Jerry Callo said:

Buda EDC offered several hundred thousand in incentives (I've seen $288-512k) for Valentina's to open in that big building.  That sounds like a bunch of money until its not.  I doubt Valentina's made all of the metrics to get all of the incentives.  I wouldn't be surprised if Valentina's hired and staffed more employees than were required just to try to make the requirements. 

I have a hunch that you are on to something there.  Crazy that Buda EDC did that when there is already a pretty vibrant food and drink culture on Main Street.

[Bozo_Casanova 25903]

From another thread, re: Buda EDC

On 2/19/2024 at 11:37 AM, Bozo_Casanova said:

When they built the Hays ISD performing arts center the economic development corp guy for Buda was super excited because there was a cat show he really wanted us to get. 
“These cat people come to town and spend BIG MONEY,” he said.