Who could we realistically hire tomorrow if Sark was hypothetically fired?

[Nueces River Rat 5528]

I say we give these two guys a try.....    We could get them on the cheap too.

[bad_teammate 13125]

If we can get Urban, fire Sark.

Otherwise, let this play out.

It sucks

[utee94 15742]

1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

If we can get Urban, fire Sark.

Otherwise, let this play out.

It sucks

Agree.  And it's probably what we should have done with Tom Herman, too.  

[Hermanator 6916]

18 hours ago, Nueces River Rat said:

I say we give these two guys a try.....    We could get them on the cheap too.

Orgeron will be free in a month so very possible

[Hermanator 6916]

18 hours ago, utee94 said:

Agree.  And it's probably what we should have done with Tom Herman, too.  

Could have if the idiots didn't leak the Urban talks

[Murfdogg21 4412]

The Big Cigars get what they deserve if they have to shell out these criminal buyouts to the frauds with whom they hand picked and negotiated the contracts. 
 

I remember around the time we hired Charlie, some younger less proven option was saying (through agents) that he deserved the same salary we’d pay Charlie, Saban, or Urban because that was the salary/cost of the position of UT HC. Fuck that shit. Get some MAC coach on an upward trajectory with success at two programs and give him a heavily incentivized contract. I don’t blame Charlie for his faults and I think he actually tried. Herman and Sark and their staffs were/are just stealing millions with a half ass effort protected by eight figure buyouts. 

[utee94 15742]

1 minute ago, Murfdogg21 said:

The Big Cigars get what they deserve if they have to shell out these criminal buyouts to the frauds with whom they hand picked and negotiated the contracts. 

Did the big cigars pick Charlie?  Red McCombs sure as shit didn't.

They didn't pick Sarkisian, either.   I guess they can be blamed for wanting Tom Herman out, without having a backup plan after Urban Meyer said no.  

I don't recall who wanted Tom Herman.  

[David Dennison 18603]

Just now, utee94 said:

Did the big cigars pick Charlie?  Red McCombs sure as shit didn't.

They didn't pick Sarkisian, either.   I guess they can be blamed for wanting Tom Herman out, without having a backup plan after Urban Meyer said no.  

I don't recall who wanted Tom Herman.  

Houston BMDs, I think.

[utee94 15742]

Just now, David Dennison said:

Houston BMDs, I think.

That would make sense.

But my point is, folks keep blaming "the big cigars" for their bad coaching choices.  If Herman was wanted by the Houston guys, that still only makes one of the past three that was actually picked by The Money rather than The Administration.

 

[closetohumping 17380]

2 minutes ago, utee94 said:

Did the big cigars pick Charlie?  Red McCombs sure as shit didn't.

They didn't pick Sarkisian, either.   I guess they can be blamed for wanting Tom Herman out, without having a backup plan after Urban Meyer said no.  

I don't recall who wanted Tom Herman.  

Bill Powers/Mack pick.

 

Bill didn't want to let Mack go, when he was forced to, he wanted to be the first president to hire an African American coach at Texas.  Mack was a fan of Charlie I believe.

[TwiceHorn 31184]

2 minutes ago, utee94 said:

Did the big cigars pick Charlie?  Red McCombs sure as shit didn't.

They didn't pick Sarkisian, either.   I guess they can be blamed for wanting Tom Herman out, without having a backup plan after Urban Meyer said no.  

I don't recall who wanted Tom Herman.  

Well, Eltife is pretty much the epitome of a big cigar.  What he lacks in financial power, he makes up for poltically.

Latter-day Frank Erwin it seems.

[utee94 15742]

3 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Well, Eltife is pretty much the epitome of a big cigar.  What he lacks in financial power, he makes up for poltically.

Latter-day Frank Erwin it seems.

He's still an administrator, doing what many on this board appear to be calling for-- making an administrative decision from his administrative position, rather than a group of cigars calling all the shots.  After Urbs didn't pan out, the rest of The Money pretty much wiped their hands and walked away.  They weren't stumping for Sarkisian that's for sure.

Like I said, I suppose they can be blamed for helping to push Herman out the door, but I wanted him gone too, as did a huge portion of this message board, and pretty much every Longhorn fan I know in real life.

Edited November 16, 2021 by utee94

[David Dennison 18603]

2 minutes ago, utee94 said:

He's still an administrator.  After Urbs didn't pan out, the rest of The Money pretty much wiped their hands and walked away.  They weren't stumping for Sarkisian that's for sure.

Like I said, I suppose they can be blamed for helping to push Herman out the door, but I wanted him gone too, as did a huge portion of this message board, and pretty much every Longhorn fan I know in real life.

Not to nitpick, but I wouldn't call the Chairman of the Board of Regents an administrator. The BOR hires the administrators.

[utee94 15742]

12 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Not to nitpick, but I wouldn't call the Chairman of the Board of Regents an administrator. The BOR hires the administrators.

Eh, I'm comfortable calling him that, in this context.  

Many around here keep blaming the grouping of Big Cigars for making poor coaching hires.  I'm making the point that only 1 of the past 3 could be described as such.  If anything, Eltife went against them in picking Sarkisian, but they'd already wiped their hands when Urbs didn't pan out, and didn't bother to challenge him.

Perhaps they should have. 

Of the past 3 coaches, the one that was selected by the group of cigars, was the least worst one.

Edited November 16, 2021 by utee94

[BurntOrange&White 39486]

16 minutes ago, utee94 said:

He's still an administrator, doing what many on this board appear to be calling for-- making an administrative decision from his administrative position, rather than a group of cigars calling all the shots.  After Urbs didn't pan out, the rest of The Money pretty much wiped their hands and walked away.  They weren't stumping for Sarkisian that's for sure.

Like I said, I suppose they can be blamed for helping to push Herman out the door, but I wanted him gone too, as did a huge portion of this message board, and pretty much every Longhorn fan I know in real life.

He literally is in charge of the entire UT System, he's not just an "administrator." The guy literally controls the approval of the coaches contracts.

Edited November 16, 2021 by BurntOrange&White

[utee94 15742]

Just now, BurntOrange&White said:

He literally is in charge of the entire UT System, he's not just an "administrator."

He literally is not the entire group of big cigars, if anything he went rogue to hire Sarkisian, so in this context, all of the folks calling out the group of cigars for making all of the bad choices, are wrong.

Do people want officials of the University of Texas making the decisions, or do they want a group of cigars?  From what I've read, this specific forum would rather have officials of UT making the call, rather than a group of donors.  And that's exactly what happened with Sarkisian.

So what are people going to complain about next?

[gmr548 16463]

I'm getting a Bill Snyder vibe from Lance Leipold.  Here's his record at Buffalo:

Head coaching record[edit]

Year	Team	Overall	Conference	Standing	Bowl/playoffs	Coaches#	AP°
Wisconsin–Whitewater Warhawks (Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference) (2007–2014)
2007	Wisconsin–Whitewater	14–1	7–0	1st	W NCAA Division III Championship
2008	Wisconsin–Whitewater	13–2	6–1	1st	L NCAA Division III Championship
2009	Wisconsin–Whitewater	15–0	7–0	1st	W NCAA Division III Championship
2010	Wisconsin–Whitewater	15–0	7–0	1st	W NCAA Division III Championship
2011	Wisconsin–Whitewater	15–0	7–0	1st	W NCAA Division III Championship
2012	Wisconsin–Whitewater	7–3	5–2	T–2nd
2013	Wisconsin–Whitewater	15–0	7–0	1st	W NCAA Division III Championship
2014	Wisconsin–Whitewater	15–0	7–0	1st	W NCAA Division III Championship
Wisconsin–Whitewater:		109–6	53–3
Buffalo Bulls (Mid-American Conference) (2015–2020)
2015	Buffalo	5–7	3–5	4th (East)
2016	Buffalo	2–10	1–7	6th (East)
2017	Buffalo	6–6	4–4	T–3rd (East)
2018	Buffalo	10–4	7–1	1st (East)	L Dollar General
2019	Buffalo	8–5	5–3	T–2nd (East)	W Bahamas
2020	Buffalo	6–1	5–0	1st (East)	W Camellia	25	25
Buffalo:		37–33	25–20
Kansas Jayhawks (Big 12 Conference) (2021–present)
2021	Kansas	2–8	1–6
Kansas:		2–8	1–6
Total:		148–47

His teams lost 6 games in 8 years and went undefeated five of those years.  It wouldn't surprise me if Kansas turns out to be a challenging place to win long term, but he seems like a pretty solid hire. 
All things being equal, I get the feeling when presented with an option like Herman (big program success/uneven on his own) or Sark (big program success/average on his own) or Liepold, they will go with the flashy hire, because We're Texas.
 
 

Kansas loss has Texas fans comparing Lance Leipold to one of the best coaches of all time lmao

[Murfdogg21 4412]

31 minutes ago, utee94 said:

He's still an administrator, doing what many on this board appear to be calling for-- making an administrative decision from his administrative position, rather than a group of cigars calling all the shots.  After Urbs didn't pan out, the rest of The Money pretty much wiped their hands and walked away.  They weren't stumping for Sarkisian that's for sure.

Like I said, I suppose they can be blamed for helping to push Herman out the door, but I wanted him gone too, as did a huge portion of this message board, and pretty much every Longhorn fan I know in real life.

Blame who you wish, but no one should’ve agreed to a $21M buyout to a lifetime 0.500 coach. 

[utee94 15742]

2 minutes ago, Murfdogg21 said:

Blame who you wish, but no one should’ve agreed to a $21M buyout to a lifetime 0.500 coach. 

I certainly won't disagree with that.  

[Horn80 6074]

5 minutes ago, Murfdogg21 said:

Blame who you wish, but no one should’ve agreed to a $21M buyout to a lifetime 0.500 coach. 

If only Texas had a business school.

[BurntOrange&White 39486]

41 minutes ago, Murfdogg21 said:

Blame who you wish, but no one should’ve agreed to a $21M buyout to a lifetime 0.500 coach. 

It’s the nature of the business. 

[The Dog 43771]

6 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

It’s the nature of the business. 

the mistake was offering him the job in the first place.

[BurntOrange&White 39486]

Just now, The Dog said:

the mistake was offering him the job in the first place.

You won’t catch me disagreeing with that

[Richard Kimball 1492]

1 hour ago, utee94 said:

Did the big cigars pick Charlie?  Red McCombs sure as shit didn't.

They didn't pick Sarkisian, either.   I guess they can be blamed for wanting Tom Herman out, without having a backup plan after Urban Meyer said no.  

I don't recall who wanted Tom Herman.  

When Herman was at Houston, he got an upset win over Oklahoma, and a lot of people got stars in their eyes, not just big money donors. 

[Scooter Monzingo 820]

1 minute ago, BurntOrange&White said:

It’s the nature of the business. 

It’s the result of a Supreme Court decision that ruled against the NCAA on coaching salaries.
 

The NCAA has fucked up shit for years. But, they saw this coming years ago.

[David Dennison 18603]

We are so fucked.

[utee94 15742]

9 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

We are so fucked.

This, I agree with 100%.

[Landomatic 3813]

29 minutes ago, Richard Kimball said:

When Herman was at Houston, he got an upset win over Oklahoma, and a lot of people got stars in their eyes, not just big money donors. 

Yeah, he (and Charlie) weren’t hard for people to get behind, or at least make sense of. Sark always felt like a much bigger reach than either one of them.

[Js1 85055]

11 minutes ago, Landomatic said:

Yeah, he (and Charlie) weren’t hard for people to get behind, or at least make sense of. Sark always felt like a much bigger reach than either one of them.

Herman had a lot of red flags and they all got ignored bc of OU and FSU upset games. 

[Intruder 15]

29 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Herman had a lot of red flags and they all got ignored bc of OU and FSU upset games. 

That "arrogant asshole" red flag is only a red flag to people who aren't arrogant assholes.

[Js1 85055]

Just now, Intruder said:

That "arrogant asshole" red flag is only a red flag to people who aren't arrogant assholes.

It wasn't just arrogant asshole

It was also his antics with the Houston sports media (and Michelle's too), the really puzzling losses, the kissing players/wearing grills gadget shit. 

[Nueces River Rat 5528]

1 hour ago, Richard Kimball said:

When Herman was at Houston, he got an upset win over Oklahoma, and a lot of people got stars in their eyes, not just big money donors. 

You can't underestimate how much ESPN influences these decisions too.  Both Tom and Charlie were the on top of the their lists in articles and chatter on Gameday as being the next big hire for a blue blood program.

Edited November 16, 2021 by Nueces River Rat

[Rip76 4909]

1 hour ago, David Dennison said:

We are so fucked.

100% fucked.

 

[dingleberryswitzer 2724]

On 11/15/2021 at 9:44 AM, GhostOfTomChairman said:

I'm of the opinion that if Urban comes to us and says I'm in then you shit can Sark on the spot. Anyone else is not worth the risk and PR hit.

Not shitcan.  He seems like a good dude who knows football.  Let him stay on as an analysts or something:)

[Murfdogg21 4412]

5 minutes ago, dingleberryswitzer said:

Not shitcan.  He seems like a good dude who knows football.  Let him stay on as an analysts or something:)

Do they have stipulations in their contracts that they can’t be reassigned or demoted? If you have to pay 70 cents on the dollar to go away, why not pay him the whole dollar to OC and let someone else come in as HC for executive decisions, player development, etc. ? I realize that most HCs would want to bring in their own staff of their own hangers on from previous stops. 

[usmc0331horn 934]

1 hour ago, Richard Kimball said:

When Herman was at Houston, he got an upset win over Oklahoma, and a lot of people got stars in their eyes, not just big money donors. 

Kind of like Shaka beating Kansas to go to the Final Four.

[Michael Knight 12863]

3 hours ago, utee94 said:

He literally is not the entire group of big cigars, if anything he went rogue to hire Sarkisian, so in this context, all of the folks calling out the group of cigars for making all of the bad choices, are wrong.

Do people want officials of the University of Texas making the decisions, or do they want a group of cigars?  From what I've read, this specific forum would rather have officials of UT making the call, rather than a group of donors.  And that's exactly what happened with Sarkisian.

So what are people going to complain about next?

We just don't want morons making the decisions

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

3 hours ago, utee94 said:

He literally is not the entire group of big cigars, if anything he went rogue to hire Sarkisian, so in this context, all of the folks calling out the group of cigars for making all of the bad choices, are wrong.

Do people want officials of the University of Texas making the decisions, or do they want a group of cigars?  From what I've read, this specific forum would rather have officials of UT making the call, rather than a group of donors.  And that's exactly what happened with Sarkisian.

So what are people going to complain about next?

not sure, but i started a thread for it when we are ready to name names.

i found this article after sark was announced, with some interesting quotes from those involved:

Quote

Unlike the hirings of Sarkisian’s predecessors, Herman and Charlie Strong, the decision to hire Sarkisian was discussed and agreed upon by three different people in three different tiers of the university.

Del Conte asked Kevin Eltife, the Chairman of the Board of Regents, to be involved with the decision making to move on from Herman and find the next head coach along with Jay Hartzell, the university’s new president.

All three rowing the boat together in the same direction, a rare moment of alignment at a university often defined by dysfunction at its highest levels of leadership.

According to Del Conte, Eltife was the first to throw out the name of Sarkisian, then serving as the Alabama offensive coordinator. “I like him, too,” Del Conte responded. “He’s the guy,” Hartzell added.

Leaving the meeting, Del Conte marveled at the level of agreement between the three largest stakeholders in a decision that has huge long-term financial ramifications for the university. “Holy cow, we all agree,” Del Conte thought to himself.

 

[utee94 15742]

10 minutes ago, Michael Knight said:

We just don't want morons making the decisions

Agree 100%.

So far, the AD, the university president, the chairman of the board of regents, and the BMDs, have all made various moronic decisions at different times.

From looking at the average intelligence of surly posters, I sure as shit don't want THIS lot making the decision, either.

Saint Darrell is gone.

So, who's left to make a choice?

 

Edited November 16, 2021 by utee94

[Harrison Bergeron 1798]

It seems like they always default to whatever is the hot name at the time vs. looking deep to find the right fit for Texas. That's why we keep ending up with Strong, Herman, Sarkisian. Even Mac underwhelmed outside of the Vince-Colt years. A good coach has be be not only a good coach but also a good coach for a particular situation.

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

6 minutes ago, utee94 said:

Agree 100%.

So far, the AD, the university president, the chairman of the board of regents, and the BMDs, have all made various moronic decisions at different times.

From looking at the average intelligence of surly posters, I sure as shit don't want THIS lot making the decision, either.

Saint Darrell is gone.

So, who's left to make a choice?

 

Korn Ferry.

[utee94 15742]

4 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

Korn Ferry.

Negged.

 

 

[drt 637]

1 hour ago, Js1 said:

It wasn't just arrogant asshole

It was also his antics with the Houston sports media (and Michelle's too), the really puzzling losses, the kissing players/wearing grills gadget shit. 

and his record of dropping games he shouldn't, and his team's penalty stats, and, and, and...

[Sandtrap 0]

It doesn’t matter who the coach is.  Can’t wait for you to get to the SEC!  You are going to get butt whipped, our ref’s will see to that. They protect the SEC blue looks and everyone in the SEC hates Texas’s.

Arkie Hog

[AllenTx75 20]

John Gruden . 

[TexArcher 37455]

Ted Lasso

 

[jetsfan76 697]

Joel Quenville.

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

Obviously Leipold is a great football coach -- you don't go 108-8 at any level if you suck.

But yeah, dawg, I am gonna say there is no way a UT coach survives a 2-10 year 2, as he did at Buffalo.

The difference: 

"We're TEXAS!"

against, "Meh. We're Buffalo. Let's see how this plays out."

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

When we will ever learn? 

All these other schools hire dudes with resumes we scoff at and they turn around and kick our asses. We'll be seeing it again with Klieman in a couple of weeks. We'll be seeing it next year when Traylor kicks our ass. 

The best way forward long-term right now is allow Sark to build the program back to a level of respectable mediocrity, the way Mackovic did. He is fully capable of that, at the very least. Then reevaluate. 

As Townes van Zandt used to say, "Cheer up, y'all, it only gets worse." 

And next year will be worse. Rock bottom has yet to come.

However if we allow these coaches to actually stick around for more than two years together, without demanding the heads of coordinators, we would start to see slow and incremental improvement. But we won't because WE'RE TEXAS.

I mean -- how is that schools full of rich, not overly athletic white kids win state every year at the HS level? 

Because they've been in a system for three-five years by the time they hit HS, and then they get more of the same as frosh and on JV, albeit with better coaching and more of it. Executing plays is muscle memory, not hurr durr, Ash would have had me do this, but PK wants me to do this, and shit, he's behind me now and there's no safety help because he delayed a split second too.

That's how you negate athleticism. The lack of continuity in this "program." Scare quotes because we are not a program anymore. We are a series of teams each removed from the last by some coaching overhaul.

And I hate picking on Brockemeyer, but opposing coaches love it, and as a HS outside linebacker, I understand his role better than most on the field. Those options and sweeps that seem to always result in chunk plays are the direct result of that dude simply not being able to do what he needs to do. He can't get where he needs to be to disrupt those plays. And I dunno if we are playing him under the delusion that doing so will bring his talented bros back home, but at this point what we are doing to Luke is akin to abuse. 

Meanwhile, our other OLB has the same problem I did -- running around like my hair was on fire, overrunning the play more often than not. They are opposites but each ineffective in their own way.