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Colin Powell Dead at 84

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956 Worldwide

956 Worldwide 34444

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He will always be remembered for the Iraq WMD fiasco but his legacy is so much more than that. A deeply talented strategic thinker who understood statecraft and the levers of power, especially how the use of arms should supplement diplomacy and not the reverse. Probably the last SecState who cared about the institution of American diplomacy and tried to take care of the people there like we seek to take care of soldiers. RIP.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/18/us/politics/colin-powell-dead.html

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WhatTheBuck

WhatTheBuck 28712

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7 minutes ago, Macanudo said:

I have a really hard time getting past his involvement with getting us (back) into Iraq. 

And that Republicans like him have sat by and said little to nothing about Trump and his ilk.

Bullshit. Blame his bosses, not him. He got hung out to dry by Bush/Cheney because he was one of the only members of the administration who had any credibility. He was sold their fake intelligence and like a good soldier he went and followed his orders.

He endorsed Obama. He endorsed Hillary.

This is sad news. RIP General Powell. You were a good man. And another career wrecked by George W. Bush. (Tony Blair says hello.)

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Guest Lobo

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Wow, Matt.  Great timing.  If you can't find a teenager to fuck this morning, I can find somebody to fuck your face.  

Secretary Powell will be long remembered after your final parole appeal is buried and dead.

 

While Gaetz is Lying about underage girls' body in other States, Colin Powell's body will be Lying in State in the U.S. Capitol later this week.  

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hookemATL

hookemATL 11611

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It’s probably unfair, but the WMDs/Iraq shit is the very first thing that comes to mind when I hear his name. Too bad as it sounds like he was a genuinely empathetic person who tried his best at a really tough job. Fuck cancer either way (and Covid obviously). 

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956 Worldwide

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58 minutes ago, Macanudo said:

I have a really hard time getting past his involvement with getting us (back) into Iraq. 

 

And that Republicans like him have sat by and said little to nothing about Trump and his ilk.

This just isn’t even close to true:

 

Quote

Powell, a Republican who led the U.S. military during the 1991 Gulf War in Iraq under President George H.W. Bush and later headed the State Department under President George W. Bush, said Trump "lies all the time," has "drifted away" from the U.S. Constitution and poses a danger to American democracy.

"I cannot in any way support President Trump this year," Powell, who did not vote for the Republican president in 2016, told CNN. Trump responded by calling Powell a "real stiff" on Twitter.

Quote

Speaking at the Long Island Association, a trade group and civic organization based outside New York City, Powell told the group that “I am voting for Hillary Clinton,” according to the New York Times.

Powell, a retired four-star general and former chairman of the joint chiefs of staff who was once considered a potential presidential candidate himself, reportedly cited Republican nominee Donald Trump’s inexperience and negative messaging as contributing to his cross-party endorsement.

 

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David Dennison

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31 minutes ago, hookemATL said:

It’s probably unfair, but the WMDs/Iraq shit is the very first thing that comes to mind when I hear his name. Too bad as it sounds like he was a genuinely empathetic person who tried his best at a really tough job. Fuck cancer either way (and Covid obviously). 

He lied through his teeth, but yeah, he was nice.

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hobbes2702

hobbes2702 12846

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31 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

He lied through his teeth, but yeah, he was nice.

Yea what the fuck. He wasn’t duped. He lied to the world and it cost thousands of people their lives.

Fuck cancer and RIP but we shouldn’t pretend about him simply because he passed.

Edited by hobbes2702
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Guest Lobo

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7 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Cheney with his evil soul and baboon heart is going to outlive all of them because everything sucks. 

Cheney really is like the Keith Richards of Bush Administration.  There's a Charlie Watts comparison in there somewhere with Matt Dowd maybe.  But Cheney is a hearty bastard.  Who knows, maybe he has like a secret heroin addiction that's kept him young like Keif.

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Incredulity

Incredulity 11555

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4 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Powell is on that short list of people that legitimately could have made a serious run at being president but just didn’t seem to want the job.

it was mentioned on the radio this AM that his wife was deeply opposed to him running because she feared he would be assassinated due to being the first black man to be president.

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RPM

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7 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

it was mentioned on the radio this AM that his wife was deeply opposed to him running because she feared he would be assassinated due to being the first black man to be president.

That was the story reported at the time.

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Blotto

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1 hour ago, hobbes2702 said:

Yea what the fuck. He wasn’t duped. He lied to the world and it cost thousands of people their lives.

Fuck cancer and RIP but we shouldn’t pretend about him simply because he passed.

We were going to war in the middle east regardless of what lies Powell did or did not promote.  Had he resigned in protest, I doubt it changes a damn thing. Cheney and Rumsfeld had their war boners at full staff, and they damn sure were gonna get their dicks wet. Thats not a defense of Powell's decision to go along with it all, just an observation that his full opposition to the WMD narrative likely wouldnt have mattered. He wasnt calling the shots.

 

Edited by Blotto
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bluto

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RIP to a great military leader. What Dubya and Friends forced him to do at the UN was unforgivable and stained an otherwise impeccable resume.

My interpretation as well. And when comparing his general record vs the others, I tend to believe his take on it.
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Fudge Nuggets

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5 minutes ago, Blotto said:

Thats not a defense of Powell's decision to go along with it all, just an observation that his full opposition to the WMD narrative likely wouldnt have mattered. He wasnt calling the shots.

Of course it would not have mattered, but we wouldn’t be discussing how he tarnished his legacy if he refused to go along.

Edited by Fudge Nuggets
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jimmyjazz

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12 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Of course it would not have mattered, but we wouldn’t be discussing how he tarnished his legacy if he refused to go along.

It's reminiscent of the way some handwave away certain German attitudes to the rise of the 3rd Reich.  If you go along, you're part of the problem.  It's not like Powell wasn't a brilliant man, it's not like he didn't know what he was saying was untrue.  I can acknowledge he had a storied career, but man, that WMD stink is forever.

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hobbes2702

hobbes2702 12846

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23 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

How ironic.  Hope you add that phrase to every thing you post about “honest” Democrats.

 

It’s incredible how often you cannot do anything other than revert to team. You are allowed to think for yourself. You don’t always have to carry water

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InkaUtexas

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My father was General Powell's SO/LIC advisor when he was Joint Chief. Loved working for him. I was with Dad getting chili dogs outside the PX at Fort Meyer. General came up, sat down with his own hot dog and was just chatting with anyone who came up to him. 

A troops General is the impression I always had. 

RIP General. 

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WhatTheBuck

WhatTheBuck 28712

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1 minute ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

15 Years Ago, Colin Powell Lied to the United Nations (theintercept.com)

Well, if The Intercept writes it then it must be true. Come on, man. Powell made Tenet sit behind him at the U.N. for a reason. He had his doubts but he was doing his job. He was told the intelligence was solid. It wasn’t. The Bush/Cheney administration always planned to invade Iraq and manufactured a case for war. It would’ve happened even if 9/11 never did. 

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Onboard 2.0

Onboard 2.0 9083

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2 hours ago, hobbes2702 said:

It’s incredible how often you cannot do anything other than revert to team. You are allowed to think for yourself. You don’t always have to carry water

Staring at your post in disbelief the CR is nothing if not a team first room.  DD at least came back and called out Mr. Biden for his complicity as well.

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MC Fresh Breath

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(edit: reply to whatthebuck) That was the first hit, man.  And they cited sources, so go ahead and carry water I guess.  But I one thousand percent disagree with you.

Has nothing to do with his death really.  He lived to 84 years old and never stood trial for his war crimes, as will nobody else responsible for it all. 

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MC Fresh Breath

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4 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Well, if The Intercept writes it then it must be true. Come on, man. Powell made Tenet sit behind him at the U.N. for a reason. He had his doubts but he was doing his jo

 

“My colleagues, every statement I make today is backed up by sources, solid sources,” he said in the now infamous 5 February 2003 briefing. “These are not assertions. What we’re giving you are facts and conclusions based on solid intelligence.”

 

That's not the sound of doubt.

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hobbes2702

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11 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Well, if The Intercept writes it then it must be true. Come on, man. Powell made Tenet sit behind him at the U.N. for a reason. He had his doubts but he was doing his job. He was told the intelligence was solid. It wasn’t. The Bush/Cheney administration always planned to invade Iraq and manufactured a case for war. It would’ve happened even if 9/11 never did. 

Knowingly lying to the UN wasn’t his job.

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WhatTheBuck

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1 minute ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

(edit: reply to whatthebuck) That was the first hit, man.  And they cited sources, so go ahead and carry water I guess.  But I one thousand percent disagree with you.

Has nothing to do with his death really.  He lived to 84 years old and never stood trial for his war crimes, as will nobody else responsible for it all. 

What war crimes? Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and a whole lot of others bear more responsibility for the Iraq war than Powell. (Toss in John Yoo for torture.) Why do so many around here want to blame Powell? He wasn’t part of the inner circle. He was a fall guy. I’ve read a dozen books or more about the Bush/Cheney administration and the Iraq war and none of them advance the position that Powell knowingly lied. You cited an article in The Intercept, a source I’ve never found to be credible.

I don’t know what Tenet was thinking. I’ve seen speculation that he was just so happy to be kept on by Dubya that he went along with the game. The Iraq war was going to happen even if 9/11 never did. It wasn’t a failure of intelligence. There were voices in the CIA who knew Curveball was an unreliable source. Do you know about the Office of Special Plans? Do you know about the pre-9/11 architects of the Iraq war like Doug Feith, Paul Wolfowitz, and Richard Perle? What about Ahmed Chalabi who the Bush administration had originally picked to lead Iraq before his corruption charges came out? If I cared enough, I could post 305 links from my old “The New War on Iraq” folder, none of which claim that Colin Powell knowingly lied. He was lied to. 

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