NBA 2021-2022

[aggie08 21578]

6 minutes ago, ztejas said:

I'm trying to figure out whether this Warriors team is an actual contender or if they're an early regular-season darling that tops out at a WCF appearance. 

I think they're probably one or the other. The fact that I haven't figured out this Bulls team yet doesn't help either (I mean I know they aren't an actual contender but I wonder if they're a win one series or maybe win a couple series type team).

Any team that can potentially make a conference finals IS an actual contender this year. It's not like the most seasons where you've got 2 or 3 teams and everyone else. Thanks to Kyrie and Harden, the title is wide open.

Also, any team that defends, passes, shoots 3's, and has one of the best 5 players on the planet probably belongs on the list of ~7 or so contenders.

[SarkAfterDark 1702]

24 minutes ago, ztejas said:

I'm trying to figure out whether this Warriors team is an actual contender or if they're an early regular-season darling that tops out at a WCF appearance. 

I think they're probably one or the other. The fact that I haven't figured out this Bulls team yet doesn't help either (I mean I know they aren't an actual contender but I wonder if they're a win one series or maybe win a couple series type team).

I'm trying to figure out if you've been watching this Warriors team or not. Also how does a team make the WCF and not be considered a contender. Warriors seem to be really, really good right now. They really shouldn't be this good without Klay. If he is even 75% the player he was before, they are likely going to be the favorite IMO.

[ztejas 43741]

11 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Any team that can potentially make a conference finals IS an actual contender this year. It's not like the most seasons where you've got 2 or 3 teams and everyone else. Thanks to Kyrie and Harden, the title is wide open.

Also, any team that defends, passes, shoots 3's, and has one of the best 5 players on the planet probably belongs on the list of ~7 or so contenders.

Maybe. I think the Bucks and Nets are probably in a class of their own right now (Harden had 39 and 12 tonight - btw) with the Lakers having the highest ceiling outside of that (and Vegas agrees with me). Ws look great but haven't really been tested (again - who are the Bulls?) and as we saw with the 2016 team the playoffs are a different animal. 

So - no shit you're a top 7 team. I'm not sure if I think 7 teams have a realistic shot. It's early and I'm thinking out loud - just wondering if you're closer to Milwaukee or closer to Miami. 

Part of this is that I think the gap between KD and Giannis and whoever is next is pretty serious and that those guys are better equipped to weather 4 series than Curry. 

10 minutes ago, SarkAfterDark said:

Also how does a team make the WCF and not be considered a contender.

Because it's the NBA?

11 minutes ago, SarkAfterDark said:

If he is even 75% the player he was before, they are likely going to be the favorite IMO.

Go dump a bunch of money on them then and quote me later. 

[OB3 3633]

40 minutes ago, ztejas said:

I'm trying to figure out whether this Warriors team is an actual contender or if they're an early regular-season darling that tops out at a WCF appearance. 

I think they're probably one or the other. The fact that I haven't figured out this Bulls team yet doesn't help either (I mean I know they aren't an actual contender but I wonder if they're a win one series or maybe win a couple series type team).

Bulls looked like a completely different team with vucevic out

[ztejas 43741]

2 minutes ago, OB3 said:

Bulls looked like a completely different team with vucevic out

Totally forgot he was out. Helps underline my point. 

And anyway enough futures talk - holy fucking shit the Lakers are getting embarrassed by Minnesota right now. 

[aggie08 21578]

6 minutes ago, ztejas said:

I think the Bucks and Nets are probably in a class of their own right now (Harden had 39 and 12 tonight - btw)

I mean...so what? It's his first 30 point game of the season. What separates the superstars from the rest of the league is consistency. If I had to put money on it, I'd bet that he eventually returns to form. But it's not like he has a stellar playoff resume even at 100%.

The Nets would still be my pick--having the best guy and another should-be Top 10 guy pretty much guarantees that--but they're certainly not head and shoulders above the field as constructed.

[ztejas 43741]

22 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

But it's not like he has a stellar playoff resume even at 100%.

That's sort of the elephant in the room. But Durant almost did it by himself last year so you figure they can get a bit more from Harden and be looking good. Their supporting cast also looks better this time around and they're playing much better D overall. 

I'm not bearish on the Warriors I just want to see more because so far they've had a pretty easy open to the year coupled with Curry making his magic in the regular season for the umpteenth time. 

Gun to my head I might like you out of the West right now - especially after whatever the fuck that was that the Lakers did tonight - but ultimately I just don't love anyone in the West right now. 

Granted - you have an ace up your sleeve with Klay. Get him back at 90% and you should be positioned for a nice run. 

[aggie08 21578]

10 minutes ago, ztejas said:

That's sort of the elephant in the room. But Durant almost did it by himself last year so you figure they can get a bit more from Harden and be looking good. Their supporting cast also looks better this time around and they're playing much better D overall. 

I'm not bearish on the Warriors I just want to see more because so far they've had a pretty easy open to the year coupled with Curry making his magic in the regular season for the umpteenth time. 

Gun to my head I might like you out of the West right now - especially after whatever the fuck that was that the Lakers did tonight - but ultimately I just don't love anyone in the West right now. 

Granted - you have an ace up your sleeve with Klay. Get him back at 90% and you should be positioned for a nice run. 

Home playoff series is as high as I'm setting my hopes after the injury-ridden disappointments of the last two seasons. They'll eventually have to actually play a road game, and that's where the guys like Lee, Poole, and Payton tend to be a little more shaky.

But, as you mention, the West is wide fucking open. On paper, I guess Utah and Phoenix should be the favorites to make it to the Finals...anybody feeling good enough to put even $5 on them? I could probably make a decent argument for any one of the current Top 7 in the West to make the Finals.

[ztejas 43741]

1 minute ago, aggie08 said:

They'll eventually have to actually play a road game, and that's where the guys like Lee, Poole, and Payton tend to be a little more shaky.

Yeah this is my main hangup so far. Granted you've beaten the shit out of bad teams but so has a team like the Nets. Their 4 losses are @MIL, @CHI, Charlotte and Miami. That might be 4 playoff teams - 2 on the road and one of those was second night of a back to back. 

Hence my question of trying to figure out how I should gauge this Ws team so far. People get really caught up in hot takes and what have you done for me lately when it comes to the NBA but am I taking the 11-1 Ws over the 6-7 Bucks in 7 if it started tomorrow? Fuck no. That doesn't mean I wouldn't take you over them in June - but it takes time to sus these things out. We've got 70 games to play and haven't played a normal 82 slate in awhile. Weird shit happens. 

[Mitch Cumsteen 18655]

I give the Warriors the benefit of the doubt because of their championship pedigree. It's obviously way too early but I wouldn't hesitate to ride with the core group that posted the best record in NBA history, even if that group is older and missing a key piece for the time being. The bench and supporting players look the best they have since that record setting team. That championship confidence can spread to those other guys who haven't been there before.

Maybe it's just wishful thinking because how great would a Nets / Warriors finals be? It would be KD's ultimate opportunity to move up the ladder on the all time greats list or have his legacy take another hit. Lots of demons for him to exorcise in that one. 

[BigOrange1 6537]

don't count out the rockets.

[Patrick Bateman 3942]

15 hours ago, ztejas said:

I'm trying to figure out whether this Warriors team is an actual contender or if they're an early regular-season darling that tops out at a WCF appearance. 

I think they're probably one or the other. The fact that I haven't figured out this Bulls team yet doesn't help either (I mean I know they aren't an actual contender but I wonder if they're a win one series or maybe win a couple series type team).

They're absolutely a contender.  A few things are happening for them, first, Jordan Poole has become a nice player and will be a very good bench player and Otto Porter (a move I loved) is legit another great bench player.  Their bench is really good.  Second, the West is sort of falling apart.  If MPJ can't take another step, Denver's sunk.  Clippers without Kawhi?  Nice story, but done.  Lakers look like the Titanic, but it's still very early and if history has taught us anything, it's teams like this typically take until Jan or Feb to figure it out.  Portland?  Dame is in a huge slump.  Where the west looked really stout a year ago or even 6 months ago, it's not nearly the cage match it looked it may be this year.  

Now GSW has some dudes who are just off to a hot start and will regress to the mean (watch Dray's, Otto and Bjelica's shooting percentages), but they're absolutely a team who need to reckoned with.  Give the front office some kudos for some really nice pickups.  And all of this is with no Klay and their two superstar draft picks from the last drafts contributing nothing.  It's a SSS right now, but they have a ton to be encouraged by.  If by say, the ASB, they're still in the top 2, with starting to integrate Klay by then, they'll be someone nobody wants to play.

[ztejas 43741]

7 hours ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

Maybe it's just wishful thinking because how great would a Nets / Warriors finals be? It would be KD's ultimate opportunity to move up the ladder on the all time greats list or have his legacy take another hit. Lots of demons for him to exorcise in that one. 

It would be fun. Have to think they'd crush the ratings for the first time in awhile. 

Steph and KD are already trading blows for the MVP and scoring title. Might as well meet in the Finals.

[Message Board User 12397]

46 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

They're absolutely a contender.  A few things are happening for them, first, Jordan Poole has become a nice player and will be a very good bench player and Otto Porter (a move I loved) is legit another great bench player.  Their bench is really good.  Second, the West is sort of falling apart.  If MPJ can't take another step, Denver's sunk.  Clippers without Kawhi?  Nice story, but done.  Lakers look like the Titanic, but it's still very early and if history has taught us anything, it's teams like this typically take until Jan or Feb to figure it out.  Portland?  Dame is in a huge slump.  Where the west looked really stout a year ago or even 6 months ago, it's not nearly the cage match it looked it may be this year.  

Now GSW has some dudes who are just off to a hot start and will regress to the mean (watch Dray's, Otto and Bjelica's shooting percentages), but they're absolutely a team who need to reckoned with.  Give the front office some kudos for some really nice pickups.  And all of this is with no Klay and their two superstar draft picks from the last drafts contributing nothing.  It's a SSS right now, but they have a ton to be encouraged by.  If by say, the ASB, they're still in the top 2, with starting to integrate Klay by then, they'll be someone nobody wants to play.

The bolded is probably the most important change this year.

The West is ass, my dude.

[aggie08 21578]

6 minutes ago, Message Board User said:

The bolded is probably the most important change this year.

The West is ass, my dude.

Nah, the West is still, by far, the better conference. Something like 8 of the best 12 dudes still play out West. The talent is just more spread out than in years past.

The East just might have the best 1 or 2 teams.

[ztejas 43741]

19 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Nah, the West is still, by far, the better conference. Something like 8 of the best 12 dudes still play out West.

Disagree that it's better - even if that is true. Making the Finals in the East you are likely going through both Giannis and KD if you aren't the Bucks or Nets. I'd take the Bulls and Heat over all but 2-3 West teams right now. Philly is kicking ass, too, without Simmons. Sure the West has a lot of top x guys but Doncic is in Dallas by himself, PG is by himself, Jokic is by himself, LeBron is hurt right now and who knows if he and AD stay healthy. Portland is a mess and Lillard probably isn't a top 12 guy anymore if he keeps playing like this. Two of the better teams - Utah and Phoenix - don't have a top 15 guy (or whatever you rank Mitchell) and don't seem particularly dangerous when it comes to winning a title. 

So sure the West has a few more superstars but the top 2 guys in the league (or 2/3 if you want to throw Curry in the mix - I wouldn't) are both in the East and both have really good supporting casts and you have another top 5ish guy in Embiid with a good supporting cast - plus 2 super talented teams in Chicago and Miami that are very comparable to the Jazz and Suns.

If the Nuggets and Lakers were both fully healthy then the calculus changes but for now both of those teams have huge question marks. 

That said - the West isn't "ass". But it's certainly close and I'd give the edge to the East when it comes to teams that can win it all.

Edited November 13, 2021 by ztejas

[aggie08 21578]

23 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Disagree that it's better - even if that is true. Making the Finals in the East you are likely going through both Giannis and KD if you aren't the Bucks or Nets. I'd take the Bulls and Heat over all but 2-3 West teams right now. Philly is kicking ass, too, without Simmons. Sure the West has a lot of top x guys but Doncic is in Dallas by himself, PG is by himself, Jokic is by himself, LeBron is hurt right now and who knows if he and AD stay healthy. Portland is a mess and Lillard probably isn't a top 12 guy anymore if he keeps playing like this. Two of the better teams - Utah and Phoenix - don't have a top 15 guy (or whatever you rank Mitchell) and don't seem particularly dangerous when it comes to winning a title. 

So sure the West has a few more superstars but the top 2 guys in the league (or 2/3 if you want to throw Curry in the mix - I wouldn't) are both in the East and both have really good supporting casts and you have another top 5ish guy in Embiid with a good supporting cast - plus 2 super talented teams in Chicago and Miami that are very comparable to the Jazz and Suns.

If the Nuggets and Lakers were both fully healthy then the calculus changes but for now both of those teams have huge question marks. 

That said - the West isn't "ass". But it's certainly close and I'd give the edge to the East when it comes to teams that can win it all.

I don't want to come off as a hater, and I've always liked Giannis...but I still don't trust Milwaukee. Someone had to win last year's title and credit to them for stepping up and taking it. But they were a bum hamstring away from getting gentleman's swept out of the 2nd round, firing their coach, and completely re-tooling. All championship teams get a little luck, but I feel like they cashed all of theirs in at once.

I'm still skeptical of their offense against playoff defenses capable of limiting their fast break points and forcing them to play in the half court.

[gsoda3 3285]

I think we're giving Powell a last chance to figure this out with Luka before we trade him. Remember, for a half season he and Luka were a record setting PnR duo in efficiency. They're trying to rekindle that magic before seeing what we can get for him.

[Patrick Bateman 3942]

2 hours ago, ztejas said:

Disagree that it's better - even if that is true. Making the Finals in the East you are likely going through both Giannis and KD if you aren't the Bucks or Nets. I'd take the Bulls and Heat over all but 2-3 West teams right now. Philly is kicking ass, too, without Simmons. Sure the West has a lot of top x guys but Doncic is in Dallas by himself, PG is by himself, Jokic is by himself, LeBron is hurt right now and who knows if he and AD stay healthy. Portland is a mess and Lillard probably isn't a top 12 guy anymore if he keeps playing like this. Two of the better teams - Utah and Phoenix - don't have a top 15 guy (or whatever you rank Mitchell) and don't seem particularly dangerous when it comes to winning a title. 

So sure the West has a few more superstars but the top 2 guys in the league (or 2/3 if you want to throw Curry in the mix - I wouldn't) are both in the East and both have really good supporting casts and you have another top 5ish guy in Embiid with a good supporting cast - plus 2 super talented teams in Chicago and Miami that are very comparable to the Jazz and Suns.

If the Nuggets and Lakers were both fully healthy then the calculus changes but for now both of those teams have huge question marks. 

That said - the West isn't "ass". But it's certainly close and I'd give the edge to the East when it comes to teams that can win it all.

I sort of sit here.  The West was stronger last year and it's only gotten weaker.  I didn't trust Utah or Denver last year and Denver is falling apart.  Clippers are done.  That leaves who?  Phoenix, who was a weak participant in last year's Finals.  The league overall is more spread out and that's probably a good thing, but there are no crazy good teams who could reach all-time team status except the Nets if everyone came back.  It's a good time for parity in the NBA, but not for fantastic, historic teams as evidenced by our last 2 and probably 3 champions.

 

[Vic Mackey 47303]

[Message Board User 12397]

Mobley took Tatum to school in the last minutes of tonight's win. 

And had a crazy stupid chase down block earlier in the game...on tatum (initially called a goaltend but later ruled a clean block after Cavs challenge).

 

Edited November 14, 2021 by Message Board User

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

Yeah Evan Mobley is the real deal. 

Kind of like watching DeAndre Ayton, Marvin Bagley and then Luka. Everyone quickly realized oh Luka that dude.

[ztejas 43741]

15 hours ago, Message Board User said:

Mobley took Tatum to school in the last minutes of tonight's win. 

And had a crazy stupid chase down block earlier in the game...on tatum (initially called a goaltend but later ruled a clean block after Cavs challenge).

 

Let's not act like taking Tatum to school is some great accomplishment.

Jesting aside he's a beast. I've seen enough to where I'd take him #1 for sure in a redraft. I still think Green and Cade can be special players but Mobley is already a really good NBA player. 

[ztejas 43741]

Patty Thrills with 9... count 'em 9... 3 balls tonight. 

[shadow_operative 15932]

 

[ztejas 43741]

Bucks are entering some weird territory. Need to start winning at somepoint.

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

 

What's the logic here outside of punishing small markets?

[VirginiaLonghorn 4808]

Breakup the Bullets … without Beal, they beat New Orleans, 105-100, erasing a 19 point second half Pelicans lead for their fifth straight win.

Best season start since 1974.

🥳

 

[Mitch Cumsteen 18655]

I think we need a moratorium on tribute videos now that Alex Caruso got one. Why? Just why? 

[Fastbreak 3996]

I think we need a moratorium on tribute videos now that Alex Caruso got one. Why? Just why? 

He did score 4 points in the finals close out game against the Heat. What more do you need?

[Patrick Bateman 3942]

Bummer.  Probably more like 3-4 weeks.  Was rookie of the year thus far.

 

[Underdog 28868]

Surly Curse? 

[Message Board User 12397]

Cavs gonna go 0-fer the next 2-4 weeks.

[Vic Mackey 47303]

[Message Board User 12397]

2 hours ago, Message Board User said:

Cavs gonna go 0-fer the next 2-4 weeks.

No Jarrett Allen, no Mobley, still not clear if Love or Marky Mark will be back…

Folks we may be looking at the Tacko Fall & Ed Davis show in Brooklyn tomorrow night.

[ztejas 43741]

Nets and the WOOOORYYYAAHS tonight at 6:30 central FYI. TNT.

[ztejas 43741]

Why is Stan Van Gundy yelling me at pregame? 

[Mitch Cumsteen 18655]

Steph is not human. 

[aggie08 21578]

59 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Why is Stan Van Gundy yelling me at pregame? 

[ztejas 43741]

This dude preens and trots out onto the court off the bench all game and then leaves early when they're getting shit on. 

Good stuff LeBron.

[ztejas 43741]

Brooklyn's crowd fucking blows. Sounds like a W's home game. 

[ztejas 43741]

Nets probably need a real HC. Nash is so damn slow to recognize anything or make adjustments. 

[aggie08 21578]

The Warriors are using this game as a measuring stick to see/prove how good they are. The Nets are not (so far). Pretty simple.

Also: defense travels.

Edited November 17, 2021 by aggie08

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

Wonder how much KD regrets teaming up with Kyrie Flat Earth Irving.

[aggie08 21578]

Steve Kerr and Bob Myers vetoing Steph and Dray's wishes and giving Gary Payton II their last roster spot over proven veteran Avery Bradley has been an absolute home run.

[ztejas 43741]

Durant getting out a lot of misses this game. Good lord. 

[Captain Obvious 525]

39 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Nets probably need a real HC. Nash is so damn slow to recognize anything or make adjustments. 

Nets FO listened to Kyrie and this is what happens.

Edited November 17, 2021 by Captain Obvious

[Mitch Cumsteen 18655]

1 hour ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

Steph is not human. 

I repeat. Not human. 

[ztejas 43741]

1 minute ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

I repeat. Not human. 

Yeah. Decent night. Clear MVP frontrunner now.

Seemed like some unnecessary minutes for him, though. Although he sat a lot of the 3rd due to fouls. 

[ztejas 43741]

6 minutes ago, Captain Obvious said:

Nets FO listened to Kyrie and this is what happens.

Lately he's been okay but nights like tonight where it's like - alright Steve - you're without a starter, without a bench big, still without Claxton, W's are clearly preying on Blake on the PnR, your offense looks like shit, I don't know - maybe play Aldridge or one of your rookies sooner than halfway through the 3rd? Draw a couple plays up maybe? 

The challenge of that obvious Durant foul after he didn't challenge the obvious non-foul on Brown was a head scratcher. Kerr totally pantsed him tonight even with the Nets being shorthanded and Durant sleepwalking through the 2nd half.