NBA 2021-2022

[Irieguy 1,059]

4 hours ago, Braff Zacklin said:

Disagree. A buddy of mine paid more than $800 for a pair of chest-high fishing waders. I've never spent more than $250. Mine still work and so does his, so in my view, he overpaid.

But he uses those damned things every time he goes fishing outside of summer, so it's absolutely not a waste of money. He's gotten a great return on his investment; I just feel he invested more than he had to.

Obviously you weren’t in the business school. Usage has nothing to do with value of the item. If your $250 fish pants would last as long as his then his fish trousers are worth $250. Period. 
 

If the Cavs could the same production on the open market for less than $28M then Love is overpaid. 🤷🏻‍♂️  Sorry. Those are the rules of value. 

Edited February 3, 2022 by Irieguy

[SilasCoade 2,622]

You're applying no value to risk or opportunity cost and also evaluating the situation completely in isolation.

[Irieguy 1,059]

17 minutes ago, Llogg said:

You're applying no value to risk or opportunity cost and also evaluating the situation completely in isolation.

Thank you. In isolation is the proper method of evaluating value. Then we compare the value to the cost. Only after that comparison are opportunity tax, contract punishments, etc evaluated. Love is clearly not worth $28M. 
 

Should a team “overpay” is an interesting question. 

Edited February 3, 2022 by Irieguy

[SilasCoade 2,622]

"Worth" is not an objective calculation. He is worth what someone will pay him, which is apparently twenty-eight million American dollars.

[Braff Zacklin 13,645]

4 hours ago, Irieguy said:

Obviously you weren’t in the business school. Usage has nothing to do with value of the item. If your $250 fish pants would last as long as his then his fish trousers are worth $250. Period. 

Usage has nothing to do with value? If that's what you learned in business school, I'd say you didn't get much value from your education.

My "fish pants" didn't come with a lifetime warranty. His did. Mine also weren't made in the USA. His were. I don't assign value to those things, but he does. Ergo, value is relative.

I'm not condoning spending $800 on a fancy pair of waders. But if that's the going rate for the make and model and you actually use them and get enjoyment from them, then fine, you've proven me wrong and gotten your money's worth.

Period.

[ztejas 43,526]

Nash needs to go. Inexcusable loss tonight for the Nets. 

[Patrick Bateman 3,918]

11 hours ago, Irieguy said:

This sounds like something my wife would say. If you are overpaying for anything it is a waste of money. By definition, god damn it. 

Binary thinkers aren't generally good assessors of value.  Probably tell your wife to shut the fuck up.

 

[ztejas 43,526]

On 2/1/2022 at 11:29 PM, ztejas said:

Brooklyn has honestly played a hell of a game tonight, Phoenix is just too fucking good - especially at home. I think they've shifted to my title favorite in the past few weeks. The Nets still have the highest ceiling I think but there are too many weird questions right now - including that I think at this point Nash has pretty objectively done a shitty job. 5-9 now without Durant when you have Harden plus Kyrie in road games isn't good enough. 

I think tier 1 is Phoenix, Golden State and Milwaukee with maybe an asterisk for the Nets (GS also feels weird to me when it comes to projecting them into the playoffs and I can't quite put my finger on it)

Tier 2 I think is the Heat, Jazz and Grizzlies

It will almost assuredly be one of those 7 teams and the Grizz are realistically a couple years away unless they get a 2021 Suns-like break to the Finals. Nuggets and 76ers are fun dark horses but I don't think either will get enough from 2-15 on the roster. 

Lakers maybe remain a really wild wild card but I don't see it and the LeBron knee stuff seems concerning. 

BTW guys - I love y'all - but I'd like some better discussion around here every once in awhile. 

Not sure if anyone else is a Russillo fan - but he and I make extremely similar takes on the NBA (one of the reasons I listen to his stuff religiously). I made this post^ Tuesday night. This was his podcast open on Wednesday. 

 

He watches more ball than I do but from what I can gather both of us came to the conclusion that Phoenix should be the title favorite while watching the same game. Ryen puts PHO in a tier of their own - I didn't quite do that - but, shit, can we talk more about stuff like this and less about fishing wader valuations? 

Not trying to toot my own horn - I'm plenty comfortable in my takes whether they elicit discussion or not - I know when I'm right and when I'm wrong - just wish we could shoot the shit a little bit more here. 

[Loch Ness Monster 3,533]

Not sure how the Suns can be underrated. They made the Finals last year and are rolling through the NBA this year. Only team in the West that might stop them is Golden State.

Harden has looked terrible lately and has never done anything in the playoffs. Kyrie is just a weirdo. Not sure he wants to win a ring. 

Edited February 3, 2022 by Loch Ness Monster

[SilasCoade 2,622]

6 hours ago, ztejas said:

BTW guys - I love y'all - but I'd like some better discussion around here every once in awhile. 

Not sure if anyone else is a Russillo fan - but he and I make extremely similar takes on the NBA (one of the reasons I listen to his stuff religiously). I made this post^ Tuesday night. This was his podcast open on Wednesday. 

 

He watches more ball than I do but from what I can gather both of us came to the conclusion that Phoenix should be the title favorite while watching the same game. Ryen puts PHO in a tier of their own - I didn't quite do that - but, shit, can we talk more about stuff like this and less about fishing wader valuations? 

Not trying to toot my own horn - I'm plenty comfortable in my takes whether they elicit discussion or not - I know when I'm right and when I'm wrong - just wish we could shoot the shit a little bit more here. 

Seriously? The preceding discussion was guys shooting the shit about Kevin Love's relative value to the Cavs and whether their management was making a mistake not unloading him. It wasn't about the fishing waders in the slightest.

[aggie08 21,514]

8 hours ago, ztejas said:

Nash needs to go. Inexcusable loss tonight for the Nets. 

Nash told Harden to score 4 points in 37 minutes?

[SilasCoade 2,622]

Yeah, it's hard to blame Nash right now. The nets have 1 top-10, 2 top-20, and 4 top 80 or so players on their roster (LMA has been that good for them). After that they have nothing. Blake Griffin is like a pair of $250 Chinese chest high waders that you only need to use four times a year but they leak every single time and have no warranty. Joe Harris is like the $250 chest high waders you order from Amazon, made in America but you had a coupon, but the package never showed up. They've gotten surprising production from Olympics brand Patty Mills, like they ordered a pair of $250 Chinese chest high waders but the box contained a pair of $800 American chest high waders with a lifetime warranty. The rest of the roster just sucks. So then you get KD injured, Kyrie only available part time, Harden either in permanent decline or playing through injury, and LMA getting dinged up and the result is like a pair of $100 Malaysian chest high waders with no warranty that you could use as coffee filters they leak so much.

[ztejas 43,526]

7 minutes ago, Llogg said:

Seriously? The preceding discussion was guys shooting the shit about Kevin Love's relative value to the Cavs and whether their management was making a mistake not unloading him. It wasn't about the fishing waders in the slightest.

Yes I understand the context - it carried on a bit and got a little off topic. It would be nice to get some feedback when I introduce talking points ahead of the national media. Granted I know where I'm posting. 

15 minutes ago, Loch Ness Monster said:

Not sure how the Suns can be underrated. They made the Finals last year and are rolling through the NBA this year. Only team in the West that might stop them is Golden State.

Then let's discuss it. You haven't been in here talking the Suns up. Jesus guys I get starved for this shit. 

7 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Nash told Harden to score 4 points in 37 minutes?

How much have you watched the Nets this year? Harden has had some great games lately. This isn't as simple as him having a bad game. Brooklyn has lost 6 straight games now. 

[SilasCoade 2,622]

People not caring about the Suns is not equivalent to underrating them. I mean, fuck Chris Paul and Devin Booker has a punchable face are about the only things I care to say about them. They're a great team and have a legit shot at the trophy. What else is there to say?

[ztejas 43,526]

8 minutes ago, Llogg said:

People not caring about the Suns is not equivalent to underrating them. I mean, fuck Chris Paul and Devin Booker has a punchable face are about the only things I care to say about them. They're a great team and have a legit shot at the trophy. What else is there to say?

I just think a little title-odds discussion could chew up a couple pages. I'm not trying to say I'm right and you assholes are wrong but I'd like to hear some cases for maybe why teams should be up or down a tier. I mean fuck - @aggie08 - I gave you a lead in by questioning your Ws - let's hear their case to be the favorite. 

And on the Nets shit - I probably watched 25 games before KD went out. Nash isn't good. You can't lose 6 straight with James Harden and Kyrie playing half of those games.

[Aqua Buddha 14,600]

Okie City won at Dallas with a lineup of Lu Dort, three rookies, and a guy on a 10 day contract.  

[Message Board User 12,395]

56 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Okie City won at Dallas with a lineup of Lu Dort, three rookies, and a guy on a 10 day contract.  

Giddey looking like a great pick for OKC.  Very intriguing player.

 

[Aqua Buddha 14,600]

13 minutes ago, Message Board User said:

Giddey looking like a great pick for OKC.  Very intriguing player.

 

Yeah, his offensive game is still a little rough around the edges but he just turned 19.  The rest of his game is outstanding and looks like a 10 year vet.  Legit NBA size with a great court awareness for both passing and rebounding.  I thought he could be an 18/8/8 guy in a few years but he's that now on rebounding and assists.  Those are Ben Simmons numbers but without the drama.  Golden State was ready to draft him with the next pick and I can only imagine him slinging passes like that with Steph, Klay, and Draymond.

Also, on that pass above, he said in the post game that wasn't the call.  Said the coach drew up something and he completely disagreed with it and gave a head/eye motion to the guy to backdoor cut.  Dude is waving off a coach like that at 19.

What will be interesting about him is when the team gets better.  I don't think he could ever be a #1 on a contender due to the scoring but he'd be a great piece on a team with 2-3 other stars who can score.

[Message Board User 12,395]

5 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Yeah, his offensive game is still a little rough around the edges but he just turned 19.  The rest of his game is outstanding and looks like a 10 year vet.  Legit NBA size with a great court awareness for both passing and rebounding.  I thought he could be an 18/8/8 guy in a few years but he's that now on rebounding and assists.  Those are Ben Simmons numbers but without the drama.  Golden State was ready to draft him with the next pick and I can only imagine him slinging passes like that with Steph, Klay, and Draymond.

Also, on that pass above, he said in the post game that wasn't the call.  Said the coach drew up something and he completely disagreed with it and gave a head/eye motion to the guy to backdoor cut.  Dude is waving off a coach like that at 19.

What will be interesting about him is when the team gets better.  I don't think he could ever be a #1 on a contender due to the scoring but he'd be a great piece on a team with 2-3 other stars who can score.

Interesting future for OKC and maybe Giddey can be their glue guy to tie the different pieces together with their bevy of firsts over the next few years - the picks by the Clippers could be especially interesting starting in 2024 or so. 

https://www.si.com/nba/thunder/draft-coverage/a-comprehensive-guide-to-the-thunders-future-draft-picks

This also may be sacrilege but if the right deal came along I wouldn't be averse to moving SGA - he just doesn't shoot well enough and most of his game depends on drives to the bucket and getting foul calls...but we all know that in the playoffs (I'm assuming OKC wants to make the playoffs someday) the refs swallow their whistles and I just don't see him as being an effective scorer.   There are several 2s I like in this draft that I think would fit better next to Giddey (such as Ivey & Mathurin & Johnny Davis).

[Message Board User 12,395]

Unfortunate news, but a life well lived.

 

[Aqua Buddha 14,600]

18 minutes ago, Message Board User said:

Interesting future for OKC and maybe Giddey can be their glue guy to tie the different pieces together with their bevy of firsts over the next few years - the picks by the Clippers could be especially interesting starting in 2024 or so. 

https://www.si.com/nba/thunder/draft-coverage/a-comprehensive-guide-to-the-thunders-future-draft-picks

This also may be sacrilege but if the right deal came along I wouldn't be averse to moving SGA - he just doesn't shoot well enough and most of his game depends on drives to the bucket and getting foul calls...but we all know that in the playoffs (I'm assuming OKC wants to make the playoffs someday) the refs swallow their whistles and I just don't see him as being an effective scorer.   There are several 2s I like in this draft that I think would fit better next to Giddey (such as Ivey & Mathurin & Johnny Davis).

The Clipper picks this year might be interesting.  It looks like the #8 playoff spot will be either them or the Lakers.  The Clipper pick Okie City owns is unprotected and without either PG or Kawhi, that could easily be a lottery pick but yeah, the ones in the distant future could be good.

It seems like the long term strategy for Okie City depends on how the draft shakes out this year.  If they get a very high draft pick, they use that on someone but then might trade some of the future picks for a veteran.  Indy seems to want to blow it up so there's Sabonis.  You'd then have SGA, Giddey, the new draft pick, and the new veteran.  That's not a bad lineup depending on who those guys are.

As far as SGA, everyone is tradeable, just depends for who.  Considering his age, there aren't many people I'd trade him for, though.  

[Aqua Buddha 14,600]

 

[RexWilson 1,348]

Good trade for LAC

[Message Board User 12,395]

The year is 2022. 

And someone traded for Eric Bledsoe.🤪

[Mitch Cumsteen 18,550]

27 minutes ago, Message Board User said:

The year is 2022. 

And someone traded for Eric Bledsoe.🤪

Bledsoe is just salary filler. I guess the Clippers "won" the trade but the real news is that the tank is officially on in Portland. That is just a complete "fuck it, I'm out of here" give up. 

I'm not sure exactly what the Clips are doing here, unless they think Kawhi and PG are going to come back this season. If so, Covington and Powell make a ton of sense on a team making a title run but they don't move the needle otherwise unless the goal is to be the 7th seed instead of the 10th seed. 

[aggie08 21,514]

I assume their goal is to beat LAL in a play-in game and call the season a success. Only half kidding.

[ztejas 43,526]

On 2/3/2022 at 11:01 AM, Message Board User said:

Interesting future for OKC and maybe Giddey can be their glue guy to tie the different pieces together with their bevy of firsts over the next few years - the picks by the Clippers could be especially interesting starting in 2024 or so. 

https://www.si.com/nba/thunder/draft-coverage/a-comprehensive-guide-to-the-thunders-future-draft-picks

This also may be sacrilege but if the right deal came along I wouldn't be averse to moving SGA - he just doesn't shoot well enough and most of his game depends on drives to the bucket and getting foul calls...but we all know that in the playoffs (I'm assuming OKC wants to make the playoffs someday) the refs swallow their whistles and I just don't see him as being an effective scorer.   There are several 2s I like in this draft that I think would fit better next to Giddey (such as Ivey & Mathurin & Johnny Davis).

They don't have a #1. SGA would be a great #2. Agree that wit him as your first option you're never going anywhere. 

Edited February 4, 2022 by ztejas

[d2o 1,602]

53 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

Bledsoe is just salary filler. I guess the Clippers "won" the trade but the real news is that the tank is officially on in Portland. That is just a complete "fuck it, I'm out of here" give up. 

I'm not sure exactly what the Clips are doing here, unless they think Kawhi and PG are going to come back this season. If so, Covington and Powell make a ton of sense on a team making a title run but they don't move the needle otherwise unless the goal is to be the 7th seed instead of the 10th seed. 

Yeah, no idea how they sold this as a positive to Dame.    Maybe at this point their goal is to make the team so shitty that he wants to leave so they can start over.    Only thing that makes sense.    Especially after they gave up 2 firsts to get Covington and gave up Gary Trent Jr (who has been balling) to get Norman Powell.    To get basically a 2nd and a hope and prayer that Keon Johnson ends up being good is pretty awful.

[SilasCoade 2,622]

I've not liked any move Portland had made for two years.

[Mitch Cumsteen 18,550]

5 minutes ago, d2o said:

Yeah, no idea how they sold this as a positive to Dame.    Maybe at this point their goal is to make the team so shitty that he wants to leave so they can start over.    Only thing that makes sense.    Especially after they gave up 2 firsts to get Covington and gave up Gary Trent Jr (who has been balling) to get Norman Powell.    To get basically a 2nd and a hope and prayer that Keon Johnson ends up being good is pretty awful.

Dame is done for the year. I'm sure they sold it to him as, "You aren't coming back this season, and we're essentially fucked anyway, so maybe we'll get lucky in the lottery because it beats running this shit back another year." But the ledger on the Covington and Powell deals doesn't look so hot for them. They essentially turned 2 FRP and Gary Trent Jr into the right to pay Eric Bledsoe $20 million next season and Keon Johnson.  

[Message Board User 12,395]

 

[aggie08 21,514]

13 minutes ago, Message Board User said:

 

Well, it would definitely be the 2022 NBA if Ben Simmons, after refusing to honor his contract, gets traded to the (when healthy) title favorites.

[d2o 1,602]

2 hours ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

Dame is done for the year. I'm sure they sold it to him as, "You aren't coming back this season, and we're essentially fucked anyway, so maybe we'll get lucky in the lottery because it beats running this shit back another year." But the ledger on the Covington and Powell deals doesn't look so hot for them. They essentially turned 2 FRP and Gary Trent Jr into the right to pay Eric Bledsoe $20 million next season and Keon Johnson.  

I think Bledsoe is only partially guaranteed for next yr.    Something like $3M so the thinking is he might be able to be flipped again to a team in cap hell.   If not, he can be bought out.   Still your point stands.    That is a whole lot to give up for that and a hope and prayer that Keon Johnson ends up being good.

[Aqua Buddha 14,600]

 

[Dutchrudder 11,150]

4 hours ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

Dame is done for the year. I'm sure they sold it to him as, "You aren't coming back this season, and we're essentially fucked anyway, so maybe we'll get lucky in the lottery because it beats running this shit back another year." But the ledger on the Covington and Powell deals doesn't look so hot for them. They essentially turned 2 FRP and Gary Trent Jr into the right to pay Eric Bledsoe $20 million next season and Keon Johnson.  

Is Dame hurt?  I thought this trade would signal the rebuild is on, and they are ready to trade Dame and CJ to get things moving. It's the right time to move Dame, there are several teams that would want him.

I wonder what the Lakers would give to swap him for Westbrook? 

What if the Cavs could swing a trade for him, would he accept a 6th man role with a punchers chance to win a ring?  

I don't see Simmons for Dame happening, but they could be part of a 4+ team trade that makes it work. Tons of options out there. 

[ztejas 43,526]

3 hours ago, Aqua Buddha said:

 

I have no idea. All I know is it would be absolutely legendary. 

I think it's happening, too. Harden isn't playing tonight and wasn't on the injury report. Wonder if it's going to be a straight up swap or will include other pieces?

Almost as good of a question: can Harden and Embiid win a title this season?

[Loch Ness Monster 3,533]

Wouldn't trade anything of value for the right to pay Ben Simmons 40 million a year.

[Message Board User 12,395]

Holy fuck were the refs atrocious in tonight's Cavs-Hornets game (a game the Cavs won by one point).  The refs have been dicking over the Cavs all season (they should have about 5 more wins than they do) but this was on a whole other level.

Without extra commentary, I will leave this sequence here.

What's hilarious is that the refs knew they fucked up so totally and completely that they can't even come up with some bullshit excuse.

Instead, they basically say "oh well our bad lol" even though the entire Cavs bench was telling them they were being fucktards at the time and said exactly what happened...which I guess they didn't recognize until after the game.

 

Edited February 5, 2022 by Message Board User

[ztejas 43,526]

16 minutes ago, Loch Ness Monster said:

Wouldn't trade anything of value for the right to pay Ben Simmons 40 million a year.

Well they're paying Harden $44M. Simmons will at least play defense you'd think. 

[Message Board User 12,395]

4 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Well they're paying Harden $44M. Simmons will at least play defense you'd think. 

Epic thread of damning clips of Harden's efforts from one game...looking just like he did right before Houston got rid of him.

 

Edited February 5, 2022 by Message Board User

[Dutchrudder 11,150]

None of those 3 point shots for the Hornets went in, even the one after the whistle missed, how do they get a 3 point bucket awarded???  

[Message Board User 12,395]

Just now, Dutchrudder said:

None of those 3 point shots for the Hornets went in, even the one after the whistle missed, how do they get a 3 point bucket awarded???  

I've been watching sports for many years, watching Cleveland teams get screwed over by refs for all of those years, and this was something that even I had never seen before.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8,817]

Epic thread of damning clips of Harden's efforts from one game...looking just like he did right before Houston got rid of him.
 

What is Philly going to do with that loser?

[shadow_operative 15,932]

1 hour ago, Message Board User said:

Holy fuck were the refs atrocious in tonight's Cavs-Hornets game (a game the Cavs won by one point).  The refs have been dicking over the Cavs all season (they should have about 5 more wins than they do) but this was on a whole other level.

Without extra commentary, I will leave this sequence here.

What's hilarious is that the refs knew they fucked up so totally and completely that they can't even come up with some bullshit excuse.

Instead, they basically say "oh well our bad lol" even though the entire Cavs bench was telling them they were being fucktards at the time and said exactly what happened...which I guess they didn't recognize until after the game.

 

wow. that is legitimately the most dumbfounding call i have ever seen. 

[gsoda3 3,280]

None of those 3 point shots for the Hornets went in, even the one after the whistle missed, how do they get a 3 point bucket awarded???  

Wow that's messed up. They blew the whistle... How is it anything but a dead ball??

But they gave them the 3 because someone on the Cavs bench reached out and touched the shooter while he was shooting so it counts as a made bucket, same as a goaltend would. How did they completely whiff on this.

[UpperWestside 6,185]

3 hours ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

What is Philly going to do with that loser?

A nice trip to the 2nd round that ends with Embiid and Maxey both trying to murder him after he goes 5-20 in the deciding game.

[Message Board User 12,395]

On 1/29/2022 at 10:24 PM, Message Board User said:

Don't look now but Brooklyn is in an interesting (not good) position for the rest of the season (among the top 10 toughest remaining schedules in the league).  At least they have a bunch of road games coming up so at least Kyrie will be available, but still.

 

So I posted this a week ago and since then the Nets have gone L-L-L including last night's blowout at Utah.

That team is in disarray, they have half a Kyrie, Harden has checked out, and it's anyone's guess when KD comes back.  They have 7 games before the ASB and I'll be shocked if they win 3 of them - 

at Denver

Boston

at Washington

at Miami

Sacramento

at NYK

Washington

 

Ben Simmons to the rescue!

 

[Fastbreak 3,990]

Jared Allen with a 29/22 game. It’s a crime he is not an all-star.

[Message Board User 12,395]

16 minutes ago, Fastbreak said:

Jared Allen with a 29/22 game. It’s a crime he is not an all-star.

Truth be told, before last night's game Allen hadn't been playing well for the last couple weeks...and he knew it.

Fortunately he came through in a big way last night and there's still a chance he'll be an injury replacement to the ASG.

 

[Message Board User 12,395]