NBA 2021-2022

[Kermit 3158]

Look at this fucking bitch. Can’t even make eye contact. Dudes going to be petty until he dies.

 

[aggie08 21505]

Pathetic. KG is a piece of shit, but gets away with it under the guise of "He's such a fierce competitor!"

 

[Reynolds Woodcock 4785]

 

[ztejas 43516]

Jesus.

[d2o 1602]

 

 

[Patrick Bateman 3918]

51 minutes ago, d2o said:

 

 

Ha.  Doesn't have to play 60 though and on a minimum, it's an easy add....... Phoenix should have looked to snap him up to help with the Chris Paul injury.

[Kermit 3158]

10 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Ha.  Doesn't have to play 60 though and on a minimum, it's an easy add....... Phoenix should have looked to snap him up to help with the Chris Paul injury.

Chris Paul will still play more games than Kyrie.

[ztejas 43516]

20 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Ha.  Doesn't have to play 60 though and on a minimum, it's an easy add....... Phoenix should have looked to snap him up to help with the Chris Paul injury.

I don't think he's in Brooklyn because Phoenix didn't want him. 

[ztejas 43516]

Is LeBron playing with his kid a foregone conclusion because some franchise will be dumb enough to draft Bronny even if he isn't good enough?

Because right now - if he had a different name - there's no way you'd project him as a one and done. He's 34th in the 247 composite for his class and I didn't realize he's only 6'3". 

[UpperWestside 6171]

I guess if you look at that pick as bringing you LeBron for a year or two then it is worth it even at his age. If the Thunder pick his son it’s just one of many 1st rounders they have over the next several years. 

[UTDD 362]

Still doubtful Bronny is an NBA player, but on the other hand, I would be very comfortable betting that he doesn't get past at worst the second round of the draft.  Considering the potential financial windfall and attention for a franchise...it seems like an easy and low risk pick for multiple NBA teams.   

[ztejas 43516]

1 minute ago, UTDD said:

Still doubtful Bronny is an NBA player, but on the other hand, I would be very comfortable betting that he doesn't get past at worst the second round of the draft.  Considering the potential financial windfall and attention for a franchise...it seems like an easy and low risk pick for multiple NBA teams.   

At what point do you worry about fucking with this kid's life, though? I mean what if he wants to play a few years of college ball? 2nd rounders rarely even play as rookies. Say he plays with his dad a bit - then LeBron retires - then the NBA realizes "yeah sorry dude - you ain't it". I doubt anyone's going to keep him around as a novelty. 

Would LeBron push him into the draft even if he knows he isn't ready? 

[UTDD 362]

Just now, ztejas said:

At what point do you worry about fucking with this kid's life, though? I mean what if he wants to play a few years of college ball? 2nd rounders rarely even play as rookies. Say he plays with his dad a bit - then LeBron retires - then the NBA realizes "yeah sorry dude - you ain't it". I doubt anyone's going to keep him around as a novelty. 

Would LeBron push him into the draft even if he knows he isn't ready? 

I'd legitimately be worried an NBA team "uses" Bronny for the exposure/LeBron angle without a real interest long-term.  On the other hand, LeBron will likely remain a powerful NBA influence even after retirement (and possibly an owner someday), so there's some risk to a team for treating his son like crap too.  I personally (if I owned a team) wouldn't risk looking like things are a sham (meaning they don't view Bronny as a legit prospect) if a majority of reasonable people would infer that is the case.  I think the smarter teams would give Bronny every chance to stick on their roster.  But he just might not be good enough despite honorable intentions.  

I don't know enough about Bronny to understand his mental makeup, but I would hope that LeBron as a father would not push his child to do something that isn't realistic to his abilities.  Bronny has also trended down a bit from prior rankings as his height and length has not shot up as much as hoped by some...I've heard he's got some great court vision like his dad, but he seems to be more of a combo 1/2 guard than pure point right now.

[ztejas 43516]

27 minutes ago, UTDD said:

I'd legitimately be worried an NBA team "uses" Bronny for the exposure/LeBron angle without a real interest long-term.  On the other hand, LeBron will likely remain a powerful NBA influence even after retirement (and possibly an owner someday), so there's some risk to a team for treating his son like crap too.  I personally (if I owned a team) wouldn't risk looking like things are a sham (meaning they don't view Bronny as a legit prospect) if a majority of reasonable people would infer that is the case.  I think the smarter teams would give Bronny every chance to stick on their roster.  But he just might not be good enough despite honorable intentions.  

I don't know enough about Bronny to understand his mental makeup, but I would hope that LeBron as a father would not push his child to do something that isn't realistic to his abilities.  Bronny has also trended down a bit from prior rankings as his height and length has not shot up as much as hoped by some...I've heard he's got some great court vision like his dad, but he seems to be more of a combo 1/2 guard than pure point right now.

It's extremely rare for someone that size to be a one and done and I can't think of anyone that's done it outside of nearly 1.000 composite rated players like Rose and Wall. Mike Conley was 22nd in his class and went 4th overall but that was 15 years ago. That's about as close as I can find for a comp. DLo was 17th overall but he had a ridiculous freshman season. 

For comparison - Devin Askew was 6'3" 195 out of HS and the 32nd ranked player in his class. He will play at least another year in college.

It just seems like at this point it would have to be a bit of a stunt unless he shoots up a few inches or makes a huge leap in ability in the next couple seasons. Which - is totally possible. 

(And - I think I've said this before - I think it might be more likely LeBron hangs it up after he catches Kareem then comes back a couple years later if Bronny makes it).

Edited February 22, 2022 by ztejas

[Dutchrudder 11146]

6 hours ago, ztejas said:

Would LeBron push him into the draft even if he knows he isn't ready? 

Yes, because it's not about what's best for his kid, it's about Lebron wanting to play with his son in the NBA. If he can get him to be a first round pick, that's a lot of guaranteed money to make up for missing out on a college degree. 

If the kid really is too small to be a good prospect, then maybe he is better off being forced into the draft by dad and given an undeserved contract just so Lebron will join the team. That sounds like some form of tampering to me, but whatever. I think he would be better off doing 3-4 years of college and NCAA tournaments, then going to draft, but he would miss his career overlap with his dad.  

[Make em eat Taco Bell 1549]

9 hours ago, ztejas said:

Is LeBron playing with his kid a foregone conclusion because some franchise will be dumb enough to draft Bronny even if he isn't good enough?

Because right now - if he had a different name - there's no way you'd project him as a one and done. He's 34th in the 247 composite for his class and I didn't realize he's only 6'3". 

the kid won't be drafted. Lebron is playing the game -- you get him on the roster and I'll join your team for very little money. BOGO NBA style!  Lebron is dealin' so his kid gets 1 NBA year, probably won't play more than 50 minutes the whole year, but Lebron doesn't care about the money or titles at that point. 

[4doorsMoreWhores 107]

2 hours ago, Make em eat Taco Bell said:

the kid won't be drafted. Lebron is playing the game -- you get him on the roster and I'll join your team for very little money. BOGO NBA style!  Lebron is dealin' so his kid gets 1 NBA year, probably won't play more than 50 minutes the whole year, but Lebron doesn't care about the money or titles at that point. 

Are you doubting the scouting skills of the greatest player of all time?

[Mitch Cumsteen 18550]

12 hours ago, UpperWestside said:

I guess if you look at that pick as bringing you LeBron for a year or two then it is worth it even at his age. If the Thunder pick his son it’s just one of many 1st rounders they have over the next several years. 

So Brony won't be eligible to play until the 2024-25 season at the earliest? Is that correct? That's an eternity from now in NBA time, especially with the clock ticking on a 37 year old who keeps showing more and more cracks by the day. Not that the Lakers seem to care -- they keep playing his ass 37 minutes a night. which would be good for 4th in the league this year if he had enough games to qualify. But of course, he doesn't because he keeps breaking down.

Who the fuck is going to sign up for a 40 year old Lebron with all of his baggage and entitlement while he's breaking down physically plus waste a roster spot and/or draft pick on his kid if he can't play? I mean, other than the Lakers or maybe Sacramento, who is dumb enough to sign up for that? I'm just having a really tough time seeing the upside in all of this for a NBA franchise. It doesn't move you closer to a title and it's a fucking side show.

12 hours ago, UTDD said:

Still doubtful Bronny is an NBA player, but on the other hand, I would be very comfortable betting that he doesn't get past at worst the second round of the draft.  Considering the potential financial windfall and attention for a franchise...it seems like an easy and low risk pick for multiple NBA teams.   

What exact financial windfall are we talking about here? Like the kind that the Wizards got when the ghost of MJ was playing for them? That is what this is going to be -- a fucking joke.

11 hours ago, UTDD said:

I'd legitimately be worried an NBA team "uses" Bronny for the exposure/LeBron angle without a real interest long-term.  On the other hand, LeBron will likely remain a powerful NBA influence even after retirement (and possibly an owner someday), so there's some risk to a team for treating his son like crap too.  I personally (if I owned a team) wouldn't risk looking like things are a sham (meaning they don't view Bronny as a legit prospect) if a majority of reasonable people would infer that is the case.  I think the smarter teams would give Bronny every chance to stick on their roster.  But he just might not be good enough despite honorable intentions.  

I don't know enough about Bronny to understand his mental makeup, but I would hope that LeBron as a father would not push his child to do something that isn't realistic to his abilities.  Bronny has also trended down a bit from prior rankings as his height and length has not shot up as much as hoped by some...I've heard he's got some great court vision like his dad, but he seems to be more of a combo 1/2 guard than pure point right now.

I haz a confused? You are concerned about the emotional well being of Lebron's kid? I think he might be able to survive in this world even if he flames out as a basketball player.

5 hours ago, Dutchrudder said:

Yes, because it's not about what's best for his kid, it's about Lebron wanting to play with his son in the NBA. If he can get him to be a first round pick, that's a lot of guaranteed money to make up for missing out on a college degree. 

Lebron has made more than $500 million just playing basketball. He makes more than $50 million per year in endorsements. He has a $1 billion (yes with a B) lifetime contract with Nike. He's estimated to become a billionaire in the next 10-15 years. I don't believe that the first round money that his kid would or would not earn makes any significant difference in that family's financial situation. Perhaps Brony could take out some loans if he wanted to go back to college?  

[UpperWestside 6171]

I think you have spent a good deal more time than I have thinking about his son than I have. Yes a team will draft his son if LeBron indicates he will go there. I would have no qualms of seeing my team or any other team draft his son if they want dad to play for them too. If at 40 you are getting someone who can play 30 minutes a night for 60-65 or so games a year with something resembling a 19-7-8 stat line then yes there are teams that’ll do it and it’d be cool to watch. 

[Mitch Cumsteen 18550]

57 minutes ago, UpperWestside said:

I think you have spent a good deal more time than I have thinking about his son than I have. Yes a team will draft his son if LeBron indicates he will go there. I would have no qualms of seeing my team or any other team draft his son if they want dad to play for them too. If at 40 you are getting someone who can play 30 minutes a night for 60-65 or so games a year with something resembling a 19-7-8 stat line then yes there are teams that’ll do it and it’d be cool to watch. 

I haven't thought much about his son at all, but I do know what NBA players in their 40s look like and it isn't pretty. I don't think he's going to be able to put up 19-7-8 in 30 minutes and play 60ish games a year. He's probably not going to play 60 games this season. Then take 3 more years of tread off those tires? No way. Other than the extended break bubble year, he hasn't come close to playing a full season since he got to LA. He's wearing down, the pesky injuries are starting to mount, the recovery time is taking longer, and they aren't doing him any favors with his current workload.

Granted, he's a freak of nature and training and medicine are light years ahead of what they used to be, but Kareem at 40 averaged 14 and 6 in 29 mpg. Karl Malone was 13/9 in 33 mpg. But both those guys were post players where they didn't have to move as much and played in a much less free flowing era. They also were way more durable than Lebron at his current age. John Stockton was 11/7.7 apg in 28 mpg at 40. Vince Carter somehow played until he was 43 but he was only getting 8 ppg in 25 mpg at 40, and declined further from there. 

You and I have a very different vision for what kind of basketball a 40 year old Lebron is capable of playing.

[UTDD 362]

1 hour ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

 

What exact financial windfall are we talking about here? Like the kind that the Wizards got when the ghost of MJ was playing for them? That is what this is going to be -- a fucking joke.

I haz a confused? You are concerned about the emotional well being of Lebron's kid? I think he might be able to survive in this world even if he flames out as a basketball player.

Lebron has made more than $500 million just playing basketball. He makes more than $50 million per year in endorsements. He has a $1 billion (yes with a B) lifetime contract with Nike. He's estimated to become a billionaire in the next 10-15 years. I don't believe that the first round money that his kid would or would not earn makes any significant difference in that family's financial situation. Perhaps Brony could take out some loans if he wanted to go back to college?  

1.  The NBA is a completely different animal than it was when Jordan played for the Wizards, and Jordan wasn't going to possibly play with his own child.  I think that's an absolutely terrible comparison.  If you don't think teams won't seriously consider the financial parameters of signing both of them, I really can't help you.  It may or may not work out, but to completely dismiss the possibility before 2024 would be very shortsighted for any NBA executive.  The very fact that it is already a narrative two full years before it might even happen speaks volumes about this already.  Of course, a lot can happen before then (both to LeBron or Bronny) but it's going to be a real story and stories create financial traction if it triggers a certain way. 

2.  No more than any other young person -- it's not specific to Bronny, but I don't think it's good for the NBA to push this kid if he doesn't have the talent to stick, regardless of the LeBron angle.

3.  I already stated that financial consideration wouldn't be much of a consideration but perhaps you completely missed it.

You're speaking in extremes and absolutes when most of this case specific to a unique set of parameters, and nuanced given each particular team and their strategic goals.

  

[ztejas 43516]

2 hours ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

So Brony won't be eligible to play until the 2024-25 season at the earliest? Is that correct? That's an eternity from now in NBA time, especially with the clock ticking on a 37 year old who keeps showing more and more cracks by the day. Not that the Lakers seem to care -- they keep playing his ass 37 minutes a night. which would be good for 4th in the league this year if he had enough games to qualify. But of course, he doesn't because he keeps breaking down.

Who the fuck is going to sign up for a 40 year old Lebron with all of his baggage and entitlement while he's breaking down physically plus waste a roster spot and/or draft pick on his kid if he can't play? I mean, other than the Lakers or maybe Sacramento, who is dumb enough to sign up for that? I'm just having a really tough time seeing the upside in all of this for a NBA franchise. It doesn't move you closer to a title and it's a fucking side show.

This is why I think it might be more likely he takes a couple years off in the meantime. Especially if Bronny spends more than a year in college. 

2 hours ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

I haz a confused? You are concerned about the emotional well being of Lebron's kid? I think he might be able to survive in this world even if he flames out as a basketball player.

He's still a human being. It isn't just about money (in fact for him - I wouldn't think it's about money at all). I'm assuming he has his own dreams and aspirations - he may not like getting pressured into the league if he doesn't feel ready. 

There's a laundry list of NBA players that have struggled with mental health. Yes he has a safety net but once you enter the draft you can't go back. Getting to the league by 19 so your dad can play with you is a weird thing to carry around. 

There was a great Austin Rivers interview on Russillo where he talked about how it was kind of shitty playing for his dad because, one: a lot of people thought he wasn't sticking in the league based on his ability as a player and two: it made some of the dynamics in the locker room awkward because his teammates were wary of talking about the coach in front of him. And that's Doc Rivers' kid.

Bronny could get a monumental amount of shit if people think (or even recognize) he's just on an NBA team as a sideshow attraction for his dad's retirement tour. Tons of people already despise LeBron. 

[Mitch Cumsteen 18550]

1 hour ago, UTDD said:

1.  The NBA is a completely different animal than it was when Jordan played for the Wizards, and Jordan wasn't going to possibly play with his own child.  I think that's an absolutely terrible comparison.  If you don't think teams won't seriously consider the financial parameters of signing both of them, I really can't help you.  It may or may not work out, but to completely dismiss the possibility before 2024 would be very shortsighted for any NBA executive.  The very fact that it is already a narrative two full years before it might even happen speaks volumes about this already.  Of course, a lot can happen before then (both to LeBron or Bronny) but it's going to be a real story and stories create financial traction if it triggers a certain way. 

2.  No more than any other young person -- it's not specific to Bronny, but I don't think it's good for the NBA to push this kid if he doesn't have the talent to stick, regardless of the LeBron angle.

3.  I already stated that financial consideration wouldn't be much of a consideration but perhaps you completely missed it.

You're speaking in extremes and absolutes when most of this case specific to a unique set of parameters, and nuanced given each particular team and their strategic goals.

  

One thing we can agree on is that you really can't help me.  This father / son gimmick is not going to be financially material to any individual nba franchise in the same season they are due an astronomical bump from the new TV deal. Proportionally, I would estimate it's impact to be dogshit divided by infinity. 

[UTDD 362]

1 hour ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

One thing we can agree on is that you really can't help me.  This father / son gimmick is not going to be financially material to any individual nba franchise in the same season they are due an astronomical bump from the new TV deal. Proportionally, I would estimate it's impact to be dogshit divided by infinity. 

Fair enough, I guess we'll see what happens.  I'm pretty sure more than one NBA team will be interested, but others (I think serious contenders) will likely not be as engaged in the idea.  I'm certainly not advocating that it's a slam dunk winner, only that dismissing it outright isn't an intelligent strategy for some NBA teams.  

The new TV deal is set to start in 2025 - not 2024 when it's likely this issue would be in play - so your point about the same season isn't likely relevant, but I do think it's a factor in long-term planning regardless.  We're going to see some players especially staggering contracts and waiting for long-term deals to try and take advantage of that estimated bump.  Also, there are other considerations beyond short term financial gain when aligning your plans as a franchise.

[ztejas 43516]

Forget it. Mitch is rolling. 

[Dutchrudder 11146]

What if some team trolls him and spends a second on Bronny then sends him to the Euro league?  What team is most likely to do that? I want fleshed out opinions on this

[Dutchrudder 11146]

Alright, I'll go first. Dan Gilbert musters up all of his residual hatred for Lebron and his antics goes on the warpath. He uses a high 2nd rounder to draft Bronny, then holds him hostage in euro or G league play. He won't even entertain the idea of Lebron coming back to the Cavs because "his price is too high" and he ruins his chances of playing with his son on an NBA court because he's a petty motherfucker. Dan laughs maniacally as he jerks himself off to the thought of finally taking down the self appointed "King" and showing him who's boss. 

[ztejas 43516]

23 minutes ago, Dutchrudder said:

Alright, I'll go first. Dan Gilbert musters up all of his residual hatred for Lebron and his antics goes on the warpath. He uses a high 2nd rounder to draft Bronny, then holds him hostage in euro or G league play. He won't even entertain the idea of Lebron coming back to the Cavs because "his price is too high" and he ruins his chances of playing with his son on an NBA court because he's a petty motherfucker. Dan laughs maniacally as he jerks himself off to the thought of finally taking down the self appointed "King" and showing him who's boss. 

I know you're fucking around - but I hadn't entertained the possibility of a team holding Bronny hostage. I'm really curious to see how this all pans out. 

[Patrick Bateman 3918]

3 hours ago, Dutchrudder said:

What if some team trolls him and spends a second on Bronny then sends him to the Euro league?  What team is most likely to do that? I want fleshed out opinions on this

I mean at his size and without many games played at the HS level, he probably isn't "NBA ready".  He probably belongs in the G league unless he hits a growth spurt and/or his game improves.  He may need both.  Lebron's entitlement is so fucking pronounced.  That's why I think in 3 years, if Lebron wants to play with Bronny, then maybe Minnesota or Sacramento or Orlando will have them.  Just be a side show circus.  Now if Bronny can contribute and earns his way onto a team and into a rotation, then good for him.... but how's he ever gonna know?  This ain't the Griffey's.  

Here Lebron, want to play with Bronny...... bundle up, here's your team.

[Kermit 3158]

How much is Kermit enjoying the inevitable Lakers/Klutch meltdown? 

Priapism. 

[Braff Zacklin 13631]

You should see a doctor if it lasts for more than four hours.

[Francisco 2.0 32395]

https://theathletic.com/3144921/2022/02/23/oram-as-tensions-rise-between-lebron-james-and-rob-pelinka-where-will-lakers-draw-the-line/?source=user-shared-article

 

Spoiler

LeBron James and the Lakers are heading for a divorce.

Or, like with so many other relationships that have teetered on the brink of a break-up, they will find a way to reconcile.

Whichever way this goes, the events of the past week have proven something that has often been overlooked in the first four years of LeBron’s Lakers tenure: The gift of his presence is not without an expiration date.

This was always made abundantly clear to his past employers. When he signed a four-year contract with the Lakers in 2018, James bucked his tradition of signing one-year deals in Cleveland, repeatedly leveraging his own looming free agency to keep the pressure on Cavaliers brass.
There has never been that kind of urgency with the Lakers.

Maybe it was the fact that he already owned two mansions in L.A. Or the fact his production company was in the process of becoming a major player in Hollywood. Or that no one knew he would be playing at a league-altering level at age 37.

Whatever the reason, the Lakers appear to have taken for granted that whenever James decided to sail off into the sunset, he would take Sunset Boulevard to get there.

And as a likely result of that, there have been far more wasted years, including this 27-31 season, than there ever were in Cleveland and Miami.

That illusion of permanence has now been shattered, thanks not only to a series of passive-aggressive missives from James that make it clear he was frustrated by the Lakers inaction at the trade deadline, but also, in a conversation with The Athletic’s Jason Lloyd, entertaining the prospect of returning to Cleveland and explicitly stating his final year will be spent playing alongside his son — wherever that may be.

This has to all come as a shock to the Lakers and especially their vice president of basketball operations, Rob Pelinka, who has repeatedly yielded to James and the appropriately-named Klutch Sports Group that represents him.

Why appropriate?

Because James and agent Rich Paul long grabbed hold of the Lakers organization and are now beginning to really squeeze.

The situation is tense enough that one source close to the Lakers likened it to the early days of a war.

So far, the Lakers haven’t shown a particular willingness to engage in battle with their superstar, with sources saying that Pelinka has insisted internally that there are no hard feelings between the two sides.

But even if it is for now a one-sided war, by digging their heels in and not giving James everything that he wants has the potential to be received as a form of aggression — a battle tactic in its own right.

Pelinka erred when he said there was “alignment” between the front office and the Lakers superstars after the team failed to make a trade at the deadline. There quite clearly was not.

It remains murky, however, what exactly Pelinka was supposed to do at the deadline, and to what end.

If the Lakers traded their one available first rounder, a 2027 pick, and it didn’t make them a contender — which by now feels completely out of reach — it would have only limited their ability to improve the team in the offseason.

It’s obvious that James wanted him to do something. But Pelinka no doubt remembered that the last time he yielded to James’ management instincts, he got saddled with Russell Westbrook.

It is notable that maybe for the first time in James’ tenure, he did not get what he wanted out of Pelinka.

And now there is a divide between two of the key pillars in the unorthodox power structure of the Lakers that includes Jeanie Buss, Pelinka, James and Klutch, and much of the Rambis family tree.

As is true for the dynamic between any NBA star and his team, what’s best for James is not always what’s best for the Lakers. Pelinka shoulders at least some responsibility for the long-term health of the organization

That is of course not of as much interest to James as he chases a fifth title and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar’s scoring record.

And it only makes sense that he would focus his frustration on Pelinka’s inactivity at the trade deadline, because if he were to peel back any additional layers of the team’s roster, he would see his fingerprints all over it, too.

It’s impossible to know where all of this leads. James has the leverage to force a trade out of Los Angeles this summer, if that’s something he is interested in. He clearly has no great loyalty to Pelinka, the man who pushed the Lakers chips in to acquire James’ chosen co-star, Anthony Davis.

Why should he, considering the roster construction in each of James’ other three seasons in L.A?

And if James is done with Pelinka but not ready to be done with L.A. then doesn’t Jeanie Buss have to at least consider making a change at the top of her family’s business?

If James feels like the Lakers are not doing everything to maximize his golden years and he sees that as them pushing him away then, well, he might as well already be gone.

That heat you’re feeling is coming from the flamethrower James is pointing at Pelinka.

There is a certain irony that it is Pelinka who is now being pushed around by a Lakers superstar and his powerful agent. For nearly two decades, Pelinka was that agent, pressuring the Lakers in his own way on behalf of Kobe Bryant.

The Lakers are a superstar-driven franchise, a fact Pelinka embodies perhaps to a fault.

The philosophy can essentially be traced back to the beginning of basketball time, but for the sake of keeping it in the color TV era let’s just go back to 1991 when Magic Johnson’s career was cut short after he was diagnosed with HIV.

Jeanie Buss was as close to Johnson as anybody. She considered him another brother. But she also knew what he had meant for the Lakers, and what it meant for the Lakers to lose him.

When I recently spoke to Buss for a story on Johnson, she really emphasized how important it is that the Lakers not only have stars, but that the franchise takes care of them.

“I made my prayers at night and said, ‘If you ever send us another player like Magic Johnson,’” she said, “I will never take that player for granted again, and what that means to our city.”

That next player was Kobe Bryant. With him soon came a young agent named Rob Pelinka.

But for as important as Bryant was to the Lakers, sources inside the organization have long said that not even the legendary Black Mamba wielded as much power within the organization as James now has.

Bryant was never able to strong-arm the Lakers to make a move like the one James helped orchestrate for Westbrook, which has proven to be an outright disaster.

The Lakers did trade Shaquille O’Neal to placate Kobe before he hit free agency in 2004, but when he was under contract like James is now they did not always give in to his demands.

They didn’t give in to his trade demand in 2007. They brought back Phil Jackson even though his relationship with Bryant was strained. They avoided making a panicked move to marginally improve a lackluster roster and instead waited for Pau Gasol to become available.

The Lakers rewarded Bryant’s trust and as a result, they earned his loyalty. When he was still rehabbing from a devastating Achilles injury in 2013, the Lakers heaped upon Bryant a two-year, $49.5 million extension that essentially amounted to a lifetime achievement bonus. Bryant was so fervently embraced by the organization that when they overhauled the front office it was his agent Pelinka who was tabbed to be the new GM.

That is the way Pelinka was schooled in the Lakers way of doing business.

But now that he is on the other side of the table, Pelinka might be discovering that James and Paul work from a different playbook.

The relationship between LeBron and the Lakers now feels far more transactional than it ever did before.

This is a franchise that has long prided itself on keeping its stars happy. Now, the biggest of them all is, quite apparently, rather unhappy.

Here is the only question left to ask: In 2022, where is the line of what the Lakers are willing to do for a star?

 

[Mitch Cumsteen 18550]

16 hours ago, ztejas said:

Forget it. Mitch is rolling. 

I should probably just leave the subject alone. Apologies to @UTDD for being a dick.

I just think the whole thing is stupid. 40 year old past his prime entitled NBA legend plays NBA game/season with overrated son is a big fat meh to me. There should be about 1000 more interesting things happen in the NBA between now and then. It's a completely different story if the kid can actually play. At the same age --- and this is about as unfair a comparison as you could possibly make -- Lebron was the next big thing. If his son's last name was Smith, would he even hit the radar? I honestly have no idea. I haven't watched a second of him play. But the kid should be driving this narrative if he's got the chops, not Lebron.

23 hours ago, ztejas said:

There was a great Austin Rivers interview on Russillo where he talked about how it was kind of shitty playing for his dad because, one: a lot of people thought he wasn't sticking in the league based on his ability as a player and two: it made some of the dynamics in the locker room awkward because his teammates were wary of talking about the coach in front of him. And that's Doc Rivers' kid.

Bronny could get a monumental amount of shit if people think (or even recognize) he's just on an NBA team as a sideshow attraction for his dad's retirement tour. Tons of people already despise LeBron. 

With regard to Austin Rivers, I didn't listen to his interview but he was a top 10 pick and had already been in the league for 2-3 years before getting traded to his father's team. I think it was much less about him sticking in the league since he was relatively established as an NBA player at that point, and more about him signing an extension for about $11 million per that was way above his market value. Also, I saw Austin Rivers in Summer League before his rookie season. He got in the layup line, took his layup and then went directly back into the shooting line instead of going to the rebound line. What kind of sociopath does that kind of shit? I've hated him ever since. Fuck Austin Rivers.

[SilasCoade 2622]

I coached middle school basketball a couple years. Every fucking time they were trying to cut back over to the shooting line. There'd be one kid in the layup line every time I turned my head for 5 seconds.

[Murfdogg21 4413]

It would be a damn shame to see Lebron play his last season or two for a place like Sacramento or a future gutted version of the Pelicans or Wizards. 

[Kermit 3158]

1 hour ago, Braff Zacklin said:

You should see a doctor if it lasts for more than four hours.

It’s been months. Is that bad? 

[Message Board User 12395]

14 hours ago, ztejas said:

I know you're fucking around - but I hadn't entertained the possibility of a team holding Bronny hostage. I'm really curious to see how this all pans out. 

Bronny = Theon Greyjoy in this scenario

I cannot imagine that Dan Gilbert is going to sign off on anything involving that family for the end of time and I doubt Lebron wants any part of DG anymore either, even though adding Lebron (who is, even at his age, at 60+ TS % and 36 mpg) to a Garland-Mobley-Allen core is tantalizing.  I just can't see it happening and at some point Lebron will start to decline substantially and he probably won't be worth it by the time Bronny is eligible to make the jump.

[Message Board User 12395]

Kyrie gonna be back soon full time.

 

[Wulaw Horn 19131]

On 2/22/2022 at 11:53 AM, Mitch Cumsteen said:

I haven't thought much about his son at all, but I do know what NBA players in their 40s look like and it isn't pretty. I don't think he's going to be able to put up 19-7-8 in 30 minutes and play 60ish games a year. He's probably not going to play 60 games this season. Then take 3 more years of tread off those tires? No way. Other than the extended break bubble year, he hasn't come close to playing a full season since he got to LA. He's wearing down, the pesky injuries are starting to mount, the recovery time is taking longer, and they aren't doing him any favors with his current workload.

Granted, he's a freak of nature and training and medicine are light years ahead of what they used to be, but Kareem at 40 averaged 14 and 6 in 29 mpg. Karl Malone was 13/9 in 33 mpg. But both those guys were post players where they didn't have to move as much and played in a much less free flowing era. They also were way more durable than Lebron at his current age. John Stockton was 11/7.7 apg in 28 mpg at 40. Vince Carter somehow played until he was 43 but he was only getting 8 ppg in 25 mpg at 40, and declined further from there. 

You and I have a very different vision for what kind of basketball a 40 year old Lebron is capable of playing.

 Vince Carter is an interesting template playing until he’s 43 in a way where his athleticism was greatly diminished from being an outlier freak to an old guy. 
Bron is big. Bron is a hoops genius and sees all the angles. Bron is a credible but not great shooter. 
If he could put aside his gargantuan ego (and that’s not a knock- my goodness he has a right to have a big ego as one of the greatest to ever do this thing) I feel like he could play until he’s 45 as a rotation guy that might get 15 minutes of run, perform credibly, and have the occasional turn back the clock performance that says “wow- how did he do that at age ______”. It’s just not super likely that he becomes that kind of guy and is willing to settle for that, but if anything could make him want to do something like that I suppose it might be playing with his kid. 
 

if he’d accept a role like that I’d absolutely put him on my team and carry his kid as a fringe developmental guy if that would be the cost it would take. 

A team like the current day grizzlies could use a guy like what I described. Maybe the knicks would see value in that (and he in them) if that time ever came. 
 

Melo eventually accepted that assessment of his skills and that role. Kareem still probably could have kept going if he wanted to, in an increasingly smaller role. 
MJ still had plenty of talent with the Wizards, he could get buckets and still play. If he wanted to be a 7th man on a title team at 40 he could have fit that role- it just wasn’t something he obviously wanted to do. Vince did. He was fine. Lebron could be too. 

[Message Board User 12395]

17 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

If he could put aside his gargantuan ego

This is like saying "if Roy Tarpley could get sober..." or "if Oliver Miller loses 40 pounds..." or "if Nick Van Exel gets on the right meds..."

You ain't getting Lebron without his ego.  Not when he was 18, not now, not when he's 40.  It's what it is.  And for whatever team hypothetically does this (draft Bronny and then sign Lebron) it's going to be the story of the team and the NBA the entire year and it'll be a circus.

I pity the HC who doesn't play Bronny as much as Lebron thinks his kid should be playing - I could absolutely see Lebron, in that scenario, making passive aggressive comments to Windhorst or Mcmeneimemenmimenemimen like "yeah, I think Bronny could be playing more but I don't know if he's being put in the best position to succeed."

This would be the most helicopter of all helicopter parents.  Oof.

[Message Board User 12395]

[Wulaw Horn 19131]

7 minutes ago, Message Board User said:

This is like saying "if Roy Tarpley could get sober..." or "if Oliver Miller loses 40 pounds..." or "if Nick Van Exel gets on the right meds..."

You ain't getting Lebron without his ego.  Not when he was 18, not now, not when he's 40.  It's what it is.  And for whatever team hypothetically does this (draft Bronny and then sign Lebron) it's going to be the story of the team and the NBA the entire year and it'll be a circus.

I pity the HC who doesn't play Bronny as much as Lebron thinks his kid should be playing - I could absolutely see Lebron, in that scenario, making passive aggressive comments to Windhorst or Mcmeneimemenmimenemimen like "yeah, I think Bronny could be playing more but I don't know if he's being put in the best position to succeed."

This would be the most helicopter of all helicopter parents.  Oof.

Oh I get that. And that’s why you don’t want to get a super star at the tail end of their career, because they don’t have enough self awareness to realize when they aren’t that guy anymore. 
 

[OB3 3629]

Can some of you olds tell me what yall don’t like about Lebron? I’m really just curious

[Francisco 2.0 32395]

1 minute ago, OB3 said:

Can some of you olds tell me what yall don’t like about Lebron? I’m really just curious

There's several things, but this one will suffice:

 

 

[OB3 3629]

4 minutes ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

There's several things, but this one will suffice:

 

 

Touché, was a douche move

[Kermit 3158]

18 minutes ago, OB3 said:

Can some of you olds tell me what yall don’t like about Lebron? I’m really just curious

He cramps easily.

[conVINCEd 21469]

34 minutes ago, OB3 said:

Can some of you olds tell me what yall don’t like about Lebron? I’m really just curious

[Mitch Cumsteen 18550]

51 minutes ago, OB3 said:

Can some of you olds tell me what yall don’t like about Lebron? I’m really just curious

I've actually come full circle on him since we found out he was a sleeper cell sent to destroy the Lakers. Big fan now.

[d2o 1602]

[ztejas 43516]

2 hours ago, Message Board User said:

Kyrie gonna be back soon full time.

 

It's actually insane that both Kyrie and Simmons are going to get their way by holding out. 

Edited February 23, 2022 by ztejas