NBA 2021-2022

[Drew 2405]

They're obviously better with him than without him, especially in the playoffs.

 

HOWEVER I am vehemently against anyone saying he's a top 5 MVP candidate over guys like Luk and Tatum.

[Message Board User 12395]

It seems inevitable that Golden State is going to drop to the 4 seed, setting up a GS vs PHX 2nd round matchup; Dallas only has 1 tough game left (at Milwaukee Sunday) and lucked out that half of the Cavs roster is injured (Mobley went out with an ankle last night and still haven't heard the prognosis) - Mavs at Cavs Wednesday.

And if the Lakers lose tonight they drop out of the play-in.

 

[Pam Cummings 9639]

1 hour ago, Vic Mackey said:

I mean, thats a good amount of games now. And people use "record with and without" to justify player importance when the record is bad. So no problem with doing it here, Ja is great but i feel like hes just another Derrick Rose.

Edited March 29, 2022 by Pam Cummings

[Mitch Cumsteen 18547]

1 hour ago, Drew said:

They're obviously better with him than without him, especially in the playoffs.

 

HOWEVER I am vehemently against anyone saying he's a top 5 MVP candidate over guys like Luk and Tatum.

 

31 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

I mean, thats a good amount of games now. And people use "record with and without" to justify player importance when the record is bad. So no problem with doing it here, Ja is great but i feel like hes just another Derrick Rose.

With all due respect, you guys are fucking crazy. Here's an idea. Maybe watch the games that he plays in instead of the ones he doesn't? Kill the mental gymnastics for a minute and open your eyes. If you legitimately watch this guy go off and do shit on the court that we haven't seen since probably MJ and still think that he shouldn't be in the MVP conversation, then I really can't help you. 

To me, it's less about his team's record when he's been out and more about the fact that he's missed 1/4 of the season. Tough to win that award missing that many games, but holy shit you guys are missing the boat on this dude. He's a complete freak of nature. I think he's going to completely go off during the playoffs and shut a bunch of people up. At least, I hope so. 

[shadow_operative 15932]

who am i? since january 10th:

24 ppg, 10.4 ast, 3.9 reb, 1.2 stl 

[Message Board User 12395]

8 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

who am i? since january 10th:

24 ppg, 10.4 ast, 3.9 reb, 1.2 stl 

Ben Simmons?

[shadow_operative 15932]

4 minutes ago, Message Board User said:

Ben Simmons?

no that's 2.4 ppg, 10.4 passed up open looks, 39% FG, and 1.2 3PA/career.

[Dutchrudder 11137]

1 hour ago, shadow_operative said:

who am i? since january 10th:

24 ppg, 10.4 ast, 3.9 reb, 1.2 stl 

Jason Tatum?

Edit, nevermind, I had rebounds and assists backwards.  

Dejonte Murray?

Edited March 30, 2022 by Dutchrudder

[Dutchrudder 11137]

Paul George came back to play tonight and had a good game against the Jazz. Nice win for them, though it won't make much of a difference as they are locked for the West 8 seed.  Does Kawhi have any chance of coming back this season?  I didn't think he or PG would appear. 

The East seeding is still a toss up at this point. Brooklyn will very likely win the 7/8 East play-in game and go on to face the #2 seed of the East. There are 4 teams that could end up in that spot facing the Nets in Round 1, which is not a great start to the playoffs. The Cavs would face the winner of the 9/10 game, and then that winner would go on to face the #1 seed, whoever that ends up being (Cavs/Hornets/Hawks). None of those teams are the least bit scary right now, so that's an easy series for the #1 seed. It's gonna be an interesting finish to the East, I just hope we get one round of 76ers vs Nets at some point, everyone will get their popcorn and enjoy the fuck outta that one. 

Edited March 30, 2022 by Dutchrudder

[shadow_operative 15932]

16 minutes ago, Dutchrudder said:

Jason Tatum?

Edit, nevermind, I had rebounds and assists backwards.  

Dejonte Murray?

nope. here's a clue though: eastern conference guard

[WJC88 97]

1 hour ago, shadow_operative said:

nope. here's a clue though: eastern conference guard

Cade Cunningham. 

[shadow_operative 15932]

nope.

[WJC88 97]

6 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

nope.

Darius Garland

[shadow_operative 15932]

bingo. he's going to be a star.

[PittsburghTiger 6175]

15 hours ago, Message Board User said:

It seems inevitable that Golden State is going to drop to the 4 seed, setting up a GS vs PHX 2nd round matchup; Dallas only has 1 tough game left (at Milwaukee Sunday) and lucked out that half of the Cavs roster is injured (Mobley went out with an ankle last night and still haven't heard the prognosis) - Mavs at Cavs Wednesday.

And if the Lakers lose tonight they drop out of the play-in.

 

So, the Lakers have fallen another spot. So bad.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/33627432/los-angeles-lakers-stumble-play-position-now-11th-western-conference

DALLAS -- For the first time since the first week of the regular season, the Los Angeles Lakers find themselves on the outside of the play-in tournament looking in after Tuesday night's 128-110 loss to the Dallas Mavericks.

Playing without LeBron James (left ankle sprain) and Anthony Davis (right midfoot sprain), the Lakers trailed by as many as 37 points as Luka Doncicrecorded a 30-point triple-double through the first three quarters (34 points, 12 rebounds, 12 assists).

"We just didn't execute well enough and play with enough toughness, IQ, intelligence, focus and fight," Lakers coach Frank Vogel said. "So, not acceptable and just a poor performance across the board. Coaches, players, everybody."

[Pam Cummings 9639]

15 hours ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

 

With all due respect, you guys are fucking crazy. Here's an idea. Maybe watch the games that he plays in instead of the ones he doesn't? Kill the mental gymnastics for a minute and open your eyes. If you legitimately watch this guy go off and do shit on the court that we haven't seen since probably MJ and still think that he shouldn't be in the MVP conversation, then I really can't help you. 

To me, it's less about his team's record when he's been out and more about the fact that he's missed 1/4 of the season. Tough to win that award missing that many games, but holy shit you guys are missing the boat on this dude. He's a complete freak of nature. I think he's going to completely go off during the playoffs and shut a bunch of people up. At least, I hope so. 

If the record without him was bad or even .500, people would absolutely use it as evidence to prove how important of a piece he is and propping him up in the MVP race. So it's fair to go the other way with it, is all i was saying. 

I think Luka is the MVP. That team is nothing without him.

Edited March 30, 2022 by Pam Cummings

[closetohumping 17437]

1 hour ago, PittsburghTiger said:

So, the Lakers have fallen another spot. So bad.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/33627432/los-angeles-lakers-stumble-play-position-now-11th-western-conference

DALLAS -- For the first time since the first week of the regular season, the Los Angeles Lakers find themselves on the outside of the play-in tournament looking in after Tuesday night's 128-110 loss to the Dallas Mavericks.

Playing without LeBron James (left ankle sprain) and Anthony Davis (right midfoot sprain), the Lakers trailed by as many as 37 points as Luka Doncicrecorded a 30-point triple-double through the first three quarters (34 points, 12 rebounds, 12 assists).

"We just didn't execute well enough and play with enough toughness, IQ, intelligence, focus and fight," Lakers coach Frank Vogel said. "So, not acceptable and just a poor performance across the board. Coaches, players, everybody."

Russ had a good shooting night.  No triple double though.

[PittsburghTiger 6175]

41 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

Russ had a good shooting night.  No triple double though.

For $41,000,000 I should hope so.

[SilasCoade 2622]

1 hour ago, Pam Cummings said:

If the record without him was bad or even .500, people would absolutely use it as evidence to prove how important of a piece he is and propping him up in the MVP race. So it's fair to go the other way with it, is all i was saying. 

I think Luka is the MVP. That team is nothing without him.

Huh? Luka is the Mavs' best player by a fair margin but the supporting cast he has is a definite step up from Denver.

The Nuggets have exactly one guy not named Jokic with VORP above 1 -- Monte Morris. Dallas has 3 -- DFS, Brunson, and Powell. In WS the Mavs have Powell and Brunson actually surpassing Luka, while Joker almost triples up the WS of his most impactful teammate.

Joker is leading the league in PER, WS, WS/48, BPM, and VORP. The last is ridiculous as his VORP is 9.1 while second place is Giannis at 6.9. That's a huge separation and equal to the difference between Giannis and Jayson Tatum. Joker is doing that while ranking 11th in USG. The only argument for Joker not getting a second MVP after having a superior season with a worse supporting cast than last year is that he already won one and Embiid is having a great year on a more successful team. But let's be real, Joker is blowing the entire league away right now.

[Mitch Cumsteen 18547]

1 hour ago, Pam Cummings said:

If the record without him was bad or even .500, people would absolutely use it as evidence to prove how important of a piece he is and propping him up in the MVP race. So it's fair to go the other way with it, is all i was saying. 

I think Luka is the MVP. That team is nothing without him.

Oh I get it. They are 18-2 without him against almost exclusively the dregs of the league and teams without their best players. Does anybody in their right mind think that is a 72 win team without Ja Morant? Because that's what that pace comes out to. Does anyone think they are a 72 win team with him? I guess my point in all of this is that this is a massive outlier and people are missing the forest for the trees.

But feel free to put all the stock in the world in their beating the Warriors g league team without Steph, Klay and Draymond on Monday or beating the thunder by 80 or whatever. Everything needs context. If it helps you prop up your boy who showed up to camp fat and had to play his way into shape through the first half of the season, by all means use it. I don't have a dog in this hunt. If they gave me a vote, I would give the award to Jokic. My argument against Ja is that he missed those games, not their record in those games. 

[Pam Cummings 9639]

4 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

Oh I get it. They are 18-2 without him against almost exclusively the dregs of the league and teams without their best players. Does anybody in their right mind think that is a 72 win team without Ja Morant? Because that's what that pace comes out to. Does anyone think they are a 72 win team with him? I guess my point in all of this is that this is a massive outlier and people are missing the forest for the trees.

But feel free to put all the stock in the world in their beating the Warriors g league team without Steph, Klay and Draymond on Monday or beating the thunder by 80 or whatever. Everything needs context. If it helps you prop up your boy who showed up to camp fat and had to play his way into shape through the first half of the season, by all means use it. I don't have a dog in this hunt. If they gave me a vote, I would give the award to Jokic. My argument against Ja is that he missed those games, not their record in those games. 

I really don't care lol. Just that Luka has the Mavs as a 3 seed and Spencer Dinwiddie is his second best player, seems really good to me. He gets no love in the race and i dont think thats fair. Believe me, i hate the Mavs, but that dude is something else. But if Jokic wins he certainly deserves it.

 

I'm sure at some point in the playoffs the Grizz will need Ja. But there really is no need to downplay how well his team plays without him. It just is what it is.

Edited March 30, 2022 by Pam Cummings

[Pam Cummings 9639]

11 minutes ago, Llogg said:

Huh? Luka is the Mavs' best player by a fair margin but the supporting cast he has is a definite step up from Denver.

The Nuggets have exactly one guy not named Jokic with VORP above 1 -- Monte Morris. Dallas has 3 -- DFS, Brunson, and Powell. In WS the Mavs have Powell and Brunson actually surpassing Luka, while Joker almost triples up the WS of his most impactful teammate.

Joker is leading the league in PER, WS, WS/48, BPM, and VORP. The last is ridiculous as his VORP is 9.1 while second place is Giannis at 6.9. That's a huge separation and equal to the difference between Giannis and Jayson Tatum. Joker is doing that while ranking 11th in USG. The only argument for Joker not getting a second MVP after having a superior season with a worse supporting cast than last year is that he already won one and Embiid is having a great year on a more successful team. But let's be real, Joker is blowing the entire league away right now.

Cool. I never said Jokic is bad or anything.

[SilasCoade 2622]

1 minute ago, Pam Cummings said:

Cool. I never said Jokic is bad or anything.

You missed the point. My point was not that Jokic is better than Luka. My point was that Denver's supporting cast is much much worse than Dallas's. And with that dogshit cast Jokic is exceeding Luka in every meaningful statistic. So if your criteria for MVP is "dominant player overcoming dogshit teammates", there is no way you can endorse Luka as MVP.

[Pam Cummings 9639]

7 minutes ago, Llogg said:

You missed the point. My point was not that Jokic is better than Luka. My point was that Denver's supporting cast is much much worse than Dallas's. And with that dogshit cast Jokic is exceeding Luka in every meaningful statistic. So if your criteria for MVP is "dominant player overcoming dogshit teammates", there is no way you can endorse Luka as MVP.

....my argument is literally just to give him a little love. He never even gets mentioned. And i really don't think the voters are basing their opinions on the VORP and win shares of the candidates teammates. Like here's a thought, maybe those players are playing above their heads because they're playing with a guy that makes the game a lot easier for them.

Edited March 30, 2022 by Pam Cummings

[SilasCoade 2622]

If you have Luka 4th or 5th in your MVP ballot I've got no argument. If you have him first you're a stone cold homer with no objectivity. As to accounting for the impact of the star player raising the level of play of surrounding cast, that's partially why win shares and VORP exist.

Just for grins I looked up some other advanced stats. Jokic is absolutely killing everyone in every advanced metric.

LEBRON -- Jokic 7.58, Embiid 6.51, Giannis 6.12 ... Luka 2.38.

RAPTOR Total -- Jokic 14.5, Giannis 7.8, Embiid 7.6, ... Luka 5.5

RAPTOR WAR -- Jokic 20.5, Tatum 12.4, Giannis 11.2, ... Luka 9.0

 

This season's MVP is actually a fucking landslide based on performance alone. The only reason Jokic might not get it is the absurd perception that he shouldn't get it twice in a row when other players are having what in normal times would be MVP level seasons.

Edited March 30, 2022 by Llogg

[Baboontyme 2809]

I am not pre-disposed to be a Pistons fan at all, I watch teams and games that are interesting to me or that I have bet on. Hell I actually have to jump through hoops to watch a Pistons game because of the Bally's sports debacle. That said I've watched a few recently, and we got suite tickets on Sunday against the Knicks, and then I watched the game last night against the Nets as I had Brooklyn ML in a wager. Cade is going to be a problem. He was unstoppable in the 4th quarter last night. KD couldn't check him. Every time you thought Brooklyn was pulling away, Cade hits a 29 footer, Cade drives through the entire team and lays it in for an and one, Cade hits a floater in the lane. The Barclays Center crowd was oohing and awing - not at KD and Kyrie - at Cade! I'm surprised there is not more buzz about the guy today and in general. I get it the Pistons are boring and suck. Maybe not for long, though. 

[Herpa Derpa 6125]

4 hours ago, PittsburghTiger said:

"We just didn't execute well enough and play with enough toughness, IQ, intelligence, focus and fight," Lakers coach Frank Vogel said. 

Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln...

[SilasCoade 2622]

I'm in a mood this morning for some reason. Westbrook since Feb 1 is averaging 16.7 pts, 6.7 reb, and 6.0 ast against 3.1 tov while shooting 43% from the field. His 3pt shooting still sucks (26%) and FTs are not much better (66%). I thought he had been playing more efficiently recently, but looking back at Oct-Dec, his averages were 19.5, 8.2, and 8.4, with 4.6 turnovers/gm. Shooting percentages were modestly better early in the season except for free throws. I guess the conclusion is that Russ is always Russ and is never worth it.

 

[Drew 2405]

19 hours ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

 

With all due respect, you guys are fucking crazy. Here's an idea. Maybe watch the games that he plays in instead of the ones he doesn't? Kill the mental gymnastics for a minute and open your eyes. If you legitimately watch this guy go off and do shit on the court that we haven't seen since probably MJ and still think that he shouldn't be in the MVP conversation, then I really can't help you. 

To me, it's less about his team's record when he's been out and more about the fact that he's missed 1/4 of the season. Tough to win that award missing that many games, but holy shit you guys are missing the boat on this dude. He's a complete freak of nature. I think he's going to completely go off during the playoffs and shut a bunch of people up. At least, I hope so. 

Did you read what I said? I said they're "obviously better WITH him than WITHOUT him.  Especially in the playoffs."

He should be in the discussion, but NOT over guys like Luka/Tatum/Derozen.  Mainly due to team success AND the amount of games played. It's ridiculous.  Dude is getting hyped up to the extreme because he's exciting to watch, and he's great on the court.  But He's not played better NOR a better player than the 5 or 6 guys I have above him right now.

[Drew 2405]

3 hours ago, Llogg said:

Huh? Luka is the Mavs' best player by a fair margin but the supporting cast he has is a definite step up from Denver.

The Nuggets have exactly one guy not named Jokic with VORP above 1 -- Monte Morris. Dallas has 3 -- DFS, Brunson, and Powell. In WS the Mavs have Powell and Brunson actually surpassing Luka, while Joker almost triples up the WS of his most impactful teammate.

Joker is leading the league in PER, WS, WS/48, BPM, and VORP. The last is ridiculous as his VORP is 9.1 while second place is Giannis at 6.9. That's a huge separation and equal to the difference between Giannis and Jayson Tatum. Joker is doing that while ranking 11th in USG. The only argument for Joker not getting a second MVP after having a superior season with a worse supporting cast than last year is that he already won one and Embiid is having a great year on a more successful team. But let's be real, Joker is blowing the entire league away right now.

Yeah Jokic is the clear MVP to me. Over everyone with Giannis 2nd.  I wouldn't put Luka above either of them....think Imbiid/Luka/Tatum are on the next level, even though there's some narrative push for Imbiid.

 

[ztejas 43417]

 

[gsoda3 3253]

is russ on a carrot only diet?  he's as orange as the ncaa basketball.

[Serak The Preparer 3431]

3 hours ago, ztejas said:

 

Wow, that headline promised a lot more of an disagreement than the actual video. I'd be really hard-pressed to call that an "altercation".

[ztejas 43417]

2 minutes ago, Serak The Preparer said:

Wow, that headline promised a lot more of an disagreement than the actual video. I'd be really hard-pressed to call that an "altercation".

Honestly it's just a weird interaction. It seems like it's getting really heated then they wind up all chummy. Like Westbrook realized "oh wait - I'm being a huge dick again - let me catch myself and pretend I actually don't have a problem with something I clearly have a problem with"

[Serak The Preparer 3431]

Maybe, but for all of the criticisms about Westbrook (and good lord, there are many!), him pretending to be something he's not is not one of them. He's a clear detriment to his team but I think he's usually pretty damn upfront about what he's feeling. I think he did get irritated but calmed down pretty quickly and things never really got heated. I agree weird but not what that tweet headline said.

[Wulaw Horn 19068]

Y’all keep forgetting to mention Harden in the MVP discussion. 

[ztejas 43417]

3 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Y’all keep forgetting to mention Harden in the MVP discussion. 

Dude quit trying and the Nets lost 11 straight games. If that doesn't tell you how good he is when he's trying I don't know what else to say. 

[Wulaw Horn 19068]

10 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Dude quit trying and the Nets lost 11 straight games. If that doesn't tell you how good he is when he's trying I don't know what else to say. 

That’s actually not a terrible response. I was going more for- hey- remember when that guy used to be an auto top 5 mvp guy? Now, he won’t get a single vote. 

[Dutchrudder 11137]

Close one between the Grizz and Spurs, but the Grizz got a key block at the end to seal it. Grizz lock up the #2 seed in the West now, and the Spurs fall out of the play-in to 11th. Need the Spurs to win a few more to force the Lakers out of the playoffs for good!  

[shadow_operative 15932]

serious question- has any player, in any sport, ever, had a season as good as the one Nikola Jokic is having, with this little fanfare? i really can't fathom that that's even possible. he's arguably having the best nba season EVER, and nobody talks about him, and he's not going to win the mvp. its like 2007 tom brady being an afterthought. it's mind blowing.

Edited March 31, 2022 by shadow_operative

[Drew 2405]

They’re going to have to begrudgingly give him the MVP, again, and hate doing it but unable to do anything else.

[Serak The Preparer 3431]

22 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

serious question- has any player, in any sport, ever, had a season as good as the one Nikola Jokic is having, with this little fanfare? i really can't fathom that that's even possible. he's arguably having the best nba season EVER, and nobody talks about him, and he's not going to win the mvp. its like 2007 tom brady being an afterthought. it's mind blowing.

The first thing that pops to my mind is Mike Trout for his first couple of MVP seasons with the Angels. Like Jokic he played for teams that were never really in playoff contention, and for whatever reason has not been big on any endorsements. Sportswriters certainly wrote about him but I don't think he was viewed as Mr. Excitement in the media.

[ztejas 43417]

 

35 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

serious question- has any player, in any sport, ever, had a season as good as the one Nikola Jokic is having, with this little fanfare? i really can't fathom that that's even possible. he's arguably having the best nba season EVER, and nobody talks about him, and he's not going to win the mvp. its like 2007 tom brady being an afterthought. it's mind blowing.

He'll win MVP. Agree what he's doing is like some of the Kareem Bucks seasons. I'm not a fan of giving the same dude MVP two years in a row unless he really earns it but Jokic has done that. 

It's going to be 4 straight MVPs by internationals. Which has never happened - although surprisingly 3 straight has happened with Nash twice (lol) then Dirk in the 2000s.

[shadow_operative 15932]

 

 

[shadow_operative 15932]

 

 

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

 
 

Lol that was pretty clever…like the dude in football who lays in end zone for punts for and somehow houses it when nobody sees him catch it

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

Western conference standings have flipped in the last 10 days… wow. GS was once a shoe in for 2-3 and Utah was cemented 4th are free falling from the 2/4. Denver and Dallas making up mad ground quickly.


Wolves picking the worst time to get ankle injuries to key bench players/slump

[Baboontyme 2809]

Don't cry too hard for Joker. He's the favorite as of right now. Watched Denver last night, as well. He controlled the entire 2nd half. Impressive. 

NBA Player Awards 21-22

Regular Season MVP

Nikola Jokic

-165

Joel Embiid

+165

Giannis Antetokounmpo

+1200

Stupid imgur. forgot.

https://i.imgur.com/E1rINRY.jpg

Edited March 31, 2022 by Baboontyme

[SilasCoade 2622]

9 hours ago, Serak The Preparer said:

The first thing that pops to my mind is Mike Trout for his first couple of MVP seasons with the Angels. Like Jokic he played for teams that were never really in playoff contention, and for whatever reason has not been big on any endorsements. Sportswriters certainly wrote about him but I don't think he was viewed as Mr. Excitement in the media.

Nuggets currently 5th in the West.

[Mitch Cumsteen 18547]

10 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

 

 

That play is great until someone scouts it and pushes the ball upcourt for a 5 on 4. Cool move though.