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ztejas

By ztejas
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Radical Larry
Radical Larry
Reynolds Woodcock
Reynolds Woodcock

It's incredible to watch Rockets fans continue to stan for Harden after he choked away multiple playoff series, ran off Chris Paul in favor of fucking Westbrook, and then quit on his team and forced h

Mitch Cumsteen
Mitch Cumsteen

If you could throw Russell Westbrook and John Wall into that mix it would be like the NBA version of a white elephant gift exchange. 

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 18,963

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Russelio and Simmons just did a podcast that had the sabateour hall of fame.  They had like 30 examples of guys doing shit like what Harden has done.  He and Wilt were their only two time nominees, but it's been pretty much the case since the NBA started that guys have done this stuff.  They didn't even have stuff like Magic saying him or me with his coach, or Lebron going through the motions (but they did mention that earlier in their show) or any of a lot of other stuff that comes from these guys being unhappy.  Basically, the talent has the upper hand here, I have no idea how you would make this be any different than it is, but it sucks to see it when it's unfolding, but it's a practical strategy that's been around forever. 

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conVINCEd

conVINCEd 21,468

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3 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Except they watched 2 finals teams and an NBA champion.

Not in the 90”s we didn’t.  Tickets were also much cheaper then and it was easier to just suck it up and renew.  The aughts were wonderful.  We were making a little money on the seats and went to the games we wanted to.   A few years post-championship, when Dirk began to decline, the tickets, which were now pretty expensive, became difficult to line up buyers for in advance with the team being mediocre.  And at $175x4x43+parking, it became a little more money than we wanted to have tied up in basketball tickets when we really only wanted to go to a couple of games per month.

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Mitch Cumsteen

Mitch Cumsteen 18,517

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We should be getting a lot more Ja for MVP talk than we are. Everybody is focused on Jokic and Embiid (taking nothing from either of them - they've both been great), and to a lesser extent Giannis and Derozan, but my lord Morant is ridiculous. Disregarding that he is the most exciting player in the NBA, the Griz have the third best record in the league at 43-20 but they started the season out 10-10. They have been on a fucking tear for the last 40ish games. And they've only had Dillon Brooks for 21 games this season. 

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ztejas

ztejas 43,244

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43 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

We should be getting a lot more Ja for MVP talk than we are. Everybody is focused on Jokic and Embiid (taking nothing from either of them - they've both been great), and to a lesser extent Giannis and Derozan, but my lord Morant is ridiculous. Disregarding that he is the most exciting player in the NBA, the Griz have the third best record in the league at 43-20 but they started the season out 10-10. They have been on a fucking tear for the last 40ish games. And they've only had Dillon Brooks for 21 games this season. 

The problem is he missed 14 games and Memphis went 12-2 with him out. If this was a weak year he could still cobble a nice case together but Jokic and Embiid have just been too good. I think DeRozan has just as good of a case as well.

For comparison (I'll tack on Durant because it illustrates it further even though he's missed too much time to have a case):

Jokic

DEN 35-20 in games played (.636), 1-5 in games missed. 

Ja

MEM 31-18 in games played (.633), 12-2 in games missed. 

Embiid 

PHI 33-15 in games played (.688), 4-8 in games missed.

DeMar

CHI 37-21 in games played (.638), 2-2 in games missed. 

KD

BKN 24-12 in games played (.666), 8-18 in games missed.

 

So Ja has the lowest win% and 2nd lowest amount of wins in that group (only higher than KD). Obviously this is just looking at one aspect but I feel like all 4 of those guys are doing really well statistically on similarly talented teams (DeMar had the best surrounding cast easily before all of the injuries - but some of his best ball has been without those guys).

My current ballot would probably be:

1. Jokic

2. Embiid

3. DeMar

4. Ja

5. Curry

 

Giannis has been great again individually but has virtually the same record as Ja when he plays in a couple more games played - and that's with much higher expectations and championship continuity. Plus he already has 2.

Curry has been meh statistically but he's fucking 41-15 as a starter so I can't leave him off entirely.

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 18,963

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38 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

We should be getting a lot more Ja for MVP talk than we are. Everybody is focused on Jokic and Embiid (taking nothing from either of them - they've both been great), and to a lesser extent Giannis and Derozan, but my lord Morant is ridiculous. Disregarding that he is the most exciting player in the NBA, the Griz have the third best record in the league at 43-20 but they started the season out 10-10. They have been on a fucking tear for the last 40ish games. And they've only had Dillon Brooks for 21 games this season. 

I mean, I had pretty high hopes for him in the sense that I thought he could be an all star 4 or 5 times in his career, maybe, if the conference was weak  enough and grab a 3rd team all NBA team here and there. Which is a pretty awesome career! That's some where between 15-35th best player in the world type shit.  I had no idea he had the potential to be an all NBA first teamer, MVP candidate or lead his team to being a real title contender.  Fuck, this guys run has been special. 

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Mitch Cumsteen

Mitch Cumsteen 18,517

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1 hour ago, ztejas said:

The problem is he missed 14 games and Memphis went 12-2 with him out. If this was a weak year he could still cobble a nice case together but Jokic and Embiid have just been too good. I think DeRozan has just as good of a case as well.

For comparison (I'll tack on Durant because it illustrates it further even though he's missed too much time to have a case):

Jokic

DEN 35-20 in games played (.636), 1-5 in games missed. 

Ja

MEM 31-18 in games played (.633), 12-2 in games missed. 

Embiid 

PHI 33-15 in games played (.688), 4-8 in games missed.

DeMar

CHI 37-21 in games played (.638), 2-2 in games missed. 

KD

BKN 24-12 in games played (.666), 8-18 in games missed.

 

So Ja has the lowest win% and 2nd lowest amount of wins in that group (only higher than KD). Obviously this is just looking at one aspect but I feel like all 4 of those guys are doing really well statistically on similarly talented teams (DeMar had the best surrounding cast easily before all of the injuries - but some of his best ball has been without those guys).

My current ballot would probably be:

1. Jokic

2. Embiid

3. DeMar

4. Ja

5. Curry

 

Giannis has been great again individually but has virtually the same record as Ja when he plays in a couple more games played - and that's with much higher expectations and championship continuity. Plus he already has 2.

Curry has been meh statistically but he's fucking 41-15 as a starter so I can't leave him off entirely.

All good points but that record without Ja is misleading. They caught a pretty ridiculous string of shitty teams and/or teams missing stars: Dallas w/o Luka, Portland 2x, Sacramento 2x, Philly w/o Embiid, Miami w/o Bam, Houston, OKC, Lakers and Toronto when they were struggling early in the season. The two losses they took while he was out were Dallas (after Luka returned) and Portland. 

Still, I think they would need to go on a pretty big run these last 20 games for Ja to overtake Jokic or Embiid, but it's possible the way they have been playing. Poor Jokic has been carrying that team on his back sans Murray and Porter Jr all season, but if they finish 6th in the conference (where they currently sit), is that enough to win MVP? And I don't even know how to handicap Embiid's chances now that Harden is there. Does having a second star hurt or help his case? 

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 18,963

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1 minute ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

All good points but that record without Ja is misleading. They caught a pretty ridiculous string of shitty teams and/or teams missing stars: Dallas w/o Luka, Portland 2x, Sacramento 2x, Philly w/o Embiid, Miami w/o Bam, Houston, OKC, Lakers and Toronto when they were struggling early in the season. The two losses they took while he was out were Dallas (after Luka returned) and Portland. 

Still, I think they would need to go on a pretty big run these last 20 games for Ja to overtake Jokic or Embiid, but it's possible the way they have been playing. Poor Jokic has been carrying that team on his back sans Murray and Porter Jr all season, but if they finish 6th in the conference (where they currently sit), is that enough to win MVP? And I don't even know how to handicap Embiid's chances now that Harden is there. Does having a second star hurt or help his case? 

Imo- helps if they end up the 1 seed in the East- hurts if they are a 3 seed or lower. 

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ztejas

ztejas 43,244

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1 minute ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

All good points but that record without Ja is misleading. They caught a pretty ridiculous string of shitty teams and/or teams missing stars: Dallas w/o Luka, Portland 2x, Sacramento 2x, Philly w/o Embiid, Miami w/o Bam, Houston, OKC, Lakers and Toronto when they were struggling early in the season. The two losses they took while he was out were Dallas (after Luka returned) and Portland. 

Still, I think they would need to go on a pretty big run these last 20 games for Ja to overtake Jokic or Embiid, but it's possible the way they have been playing. Poor Jokic has been carrying that team on his back sans Murray and Porter Jr all season, but if they finish 6th in the conference (where they currently sit), is that enough to win MVP? And I don't even know how to handicap Embiid's chances now that Harden is there. Does having a second star hurt or help his case? 

That's fair. Let's also consider that MVP voters routinely make stupid votes based on momentum or narrative and may not actually look at game logs. 

I also wonder about the Harden factor with Embiid. There's also the back to back factor with Jokic.

We are sure as shit going to see some interesting ballots 

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ztejas

ztejas 43,244

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On 2/27/2022 at 10:20 PM, ztejas said:

ESPN's basketball coverage has devolved into Malika Andrews (who has no basketball experience unless I missed something) and a flash in the pan WNBA player standing in front of a screen at halftime. 

Granted it's better than anything Jalen Rose is involved in. 

Meanwhile - TNT is just like "uh yeah we're just gonna keep hiring charismatic and/or high IQ NBA players."

Even if Wade and Jamal Crawford are a little green you know they'll have some good insights and maybe grow into pretty good TV analysts. They also have Draymond and McCollum in the pipeline for when they retire.

This isn't hard, ESPN. 

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 18,963

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55 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Meanwhile - TNT is just like "uh yeah we're just gonna keep hiring charismatic and/or high IQ NBA players."

Even if Wade and Jamal Crawford are a little green you know they'll have some good insights and maybe grow into pretty good TV analysts. They also have Draymond and McCollum in the pipeline for when they retire.

This isn't hard, ESPN. 

It’s just different. ESPN is about other things. They don’t devote the time that TNT does to it.  They want to be on to sports center or the next game. TNT let’s it breathe in a way that ESPN doesn’t. 

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ztejas

ztejas 43,244

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4 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

It’s just different. ESPN is about other things. They don’t devote the time that TNT does to it.  They want to be on to sports center or the next game. TNT let’s it breathe in a way that ESPN doesn’t. 

I mean - I'm sure that's what an ESPN exec would say. 

ESPN also has fucking Disney behind them. They could stand to do a little bit better than "here's a politically correct host and some random WNBA player no one cares about".

And it isn't a gender thing. Candace Parker is a really, really good analyst. Jalen Rose fucking blows. 

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 18,963

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18 minutes ago, ztejas said:

I mean - I'm sure that's what an ESPN exec would say. 

ESPN also has fucking Disney behind them. They could stand to do a little bit better than "here's a politically correct host and some random WNBA player no one cares about".

And it isn't a gender thing. Candace Parker is a really, really good analyst. Jalen Rose fucking blows. 

Yeah- they could do better. But they’d have to give it more air time. 

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Francisco 2.0

Francisco 2.0 32,290

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ESPN's coverage sucking is due to the fact they have too many toys in their closet to play with.  They can't give it the treatment TNT does, because that would take time away from something else.

Obligatory fuck ESPN.  I miss when Sportscenter was Sportscenter, among other things.  Sorry for the thread derail.

 

 

 

 

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ztejas

ztejas 43,244

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26 minutes ago, Message Board User said:

How soon until we hear that Ben Simmons is taking the rest of the season off so that he can get his mind right for 2022-23?

 

I don't think he was ever playing that Philly game. I bet he comes back shortly after that.

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Aqua Buddha

Aqua Buddha 14,489

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For the first time ever, Bron is on a team where the fans are fans or the team first and him a distant second.  

I've always liked Bron but he's being a dick munch here.  He got the Lakers to mortgage the future for the team he wanted (fine) but then when it doesn't work out, he wants them to take the loss.  Fuck off Bron.

The Lakers could blow this team up and in five year have a great team.  The line forms to the left on dude who want to play for the Lakers.

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 18,963

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I really like RJ Barrett. Who would have thought that Zion would be behind JA and RJ making a case that you might rather have him than Zion?

I mean, that’s hyperbole if zion is back, engaged and doesn’t weigh 400 pounds but if I’m the Knicks I’m not worried about the rookie extension for Barrett at all but NO is going to at least gulp and be a little nervous when they offer Zion that deal. 
BTW- the 76’ers are going to be a problem in the east. harden is engaged (even picked up a charge!) he and Embiid fit perfectly. Maxey is actually pretty good. I like Thybil. Paying Tobias Harris $35 million per year is a crime against humanity. Will be interested to see what Morey does with him in the off-season. 
if they could have turned him into an actual player worth $35 million it would be a wrap. 

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