NBA 2021-2022

[Wulaw Horn 18963]

6 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

i thought the question was whether in hindsight you'd want

 

what happened in LA with lebron 

vs

running with the team they had in 18 and never signing lebron.

 

i'd select the second option.  even with that title they won.  yeah it's a championship and my friends and family who are lakers fans are glad they have it but they don't really value it (or lebron).  and i see their point.  they were interested for a couple years in the team but it's been a lot of frustration since then and there's still more pain coming.  

Well, running with that team right now would be a 175 million payroll if they kept it together and no title, but sure, if you want to take mystery door go ahead and have at it that was more in the spirit of the original response.  I will always take the title. I get that the Lakers might be the only franchise in the NBA that can afford to be snobbish about how a title comes, or if it matters as much to them or turn up their nose at it, but a title is still a remarkable accomplishment in any sport, and is such because it is so rare. 

If the Astros win a title this year that will be 2 in 60 years. If not, we've won half as many titles as math would suggest.

The Rockets are nowhere near ready to win another title but they have 2 in what- 50+ years in the city? That's slightly more than their fair share.

The Oilers/Texans have never won one- short of their fair share.

It's not a lot prettier for the DFW

Stars have 1 title right?  Or did I miss one?  Not a huge hockey fan.  They've been there 30+ years now it seems like- can we call that they are at their fair share?

Mavs have 1 title- they've been there what- 50 years? They are underachieving their fair share.

Rangers have 0 titles. They've been there way long enough for that to hurt by now.

Cowboys have 5 titles in 50 years or something like that?  That's turned them into one of the best brands in football. They also haven't won a playoff game in what- 25 years now? Or they won exactly one in that time?  It's not a knock- I don't actually know. The point is it's been a loooooooooong time in the desert for such a proud franchise.  

The Lakers logic would dictate that any fan of Houston or Dallas team should be willing to make a 1 title year, 1 mediocre year and 5-7 shit years bargain with the sporting gods and they will probably come out ahead in the deal. The Lakers (along with the Yanks- but they've won only 1 title this century, cowboys- 0 titles this century, Cetlics- 1 title in 35 years) might be one of the few franchises who turn their nose up at that.  
 

Th  

[gsoda3 3234]

26 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

It's not a lot prettier for the DFW

Stars have 1 title right?  Or did I miss one?  Not a huge hockey fan.  They've been there 30+ years now it seems like- can we call that they are at their fair share?

Mavs have 1 title- they've been there what- 50 years? They are underachieving their fair share.

Rangers have 0 titles. They've been there way long enough for that to hurt by now.

Cowboys have 5 titles in 50 years or something like that?  That's turned them into one of the best brands in football. They also haven't won a playoff game in what- 25 years now? Or they won exactly one in that time?  It's not a knock- I don't actually know. The point is it's been a loooooooooong time in the desert for such a proud franchise.  

The Lakers logic would dictate that any fan of Houston or Dallas team should be willing to make a 1 title year, 1 mediocre year and 5-7 shit years bargain with the sporting gods and they will probably come out ahead in the deal.

 

yes to most all that.  cowboys have won a few playoff games since our last superbowl in 96.  nothing of significance though.  

 

If Jerry Jones gutted our team, traded away our future picks for the next 5 years, and signed TB12 + supporting cast and they won 1 superbowl and then the next 2 years flamed out and we were looking at being in the desert for 3 years afterward I'd say no.  especially if the playoffs and superbowl were played in front of empty seats.  and there was no parade.  maybe it's just me.  i'd feel no connection to the majority of those star players who helped us win.  and then to relegate us to lottery and cap hell for several years afterward?  no thanks.  i'd roll the dice the other way.

Edited April 11, 2022 by gsoda3

[Message Board User 12389]

I brought this question up a few weeks ago and SAS brought it up today -

 

[Serak The Preparer 3423]

3 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

 

yes to most all that.  cowboys have won a few playoff games since our last superbowl in 96.  nothing of significance though.  

 

If Jerry Jones gutted our team, traded away our future picks for the next 5 years, and signed TB12 + supporting cast and they won 1 superbowl and then the next 2 years flamed out and we were looking at being in the desert for 3 years afterward I'd say no.  especially if the playoffs and superbowl were played in front of empty seats.  and there was no parade.  maybe it's just me.  i'd feel no connection to the majority of those star players who helped us win.  and then to relegate us to lottery and cap hell for several years afterward?  no thanks.  i'd roll the dice the other way.

I totally get that you are only speaking for yourself but I think most would take the trade. Hell, for as bad as Texas has been in the last 15 years, think of how much shittier it would be without VY holding the crystal football.

[Wulaw Horn 18963]

2 minutes ago, Serak The Preparer said:

I totally get that you are only speaking for yourself but I think most would take the trade. Hell, for as bad as Texas has been in the last 15 years, think of how much shittier it would be without VY holding the crystal football.

Yep. 

Honestly I don't even get pissed about how bad Texas football has been for the last decade. That VY experience was so amazing I feel satiated by that title, and then getting to follow that up with 4 years of Colt.  It's really hard to overemphasize how awesome that team was, culminating with beating the greatest team ever in the Rose Bowl.  Like- I assume I will never see another Texas team that great again. I assume I might not ever see another player anywhere as awesome as VY was.  I hope we win another title or 5, but I can't imagine it will be as special as that one- unless something like it comes with one of my kids in school there or something.  

[Kermit 3128]

Laker fans, after spending decades telling Spurs fans that their ‘99 title has an asterisk, cling to their summer camp championship like a fat kid clings to Little Debbie snacks.

[Brothahorn 10085]

I brought this question up a few weeks ago and SAS brought it up today -
 

So you're saying SAS reads Surly?

SAS, you a bitch!

[ztejas 43244]

Simmons is not faking having back issues. It's been somewhat of a chronic issue with him. I'm pretty sure he does want to play for the Nets (i.e. ASAP) - but he's maybe reaping some of what he showed by not staying in basketball shape and potentially working through the back issues sooner (or maybe he just got unlucky timing wise).

I think he's genuinely been trying to get back on the court - and he seems to be getting closer - I'm just not sure when that process actually began. I don't see this as a continuation of the temper tantrum he was throwing in Philly.

Barring really serious injury issues he will play for the Nets next season. I also wouldn't be that surprised if he gives some spot minutes in the playoffs - even though I'm not sure the Nets should do that. 

Regardless of how the Simmons aspect plays out - talk about a couple of (or shit - a few of if you include Harden) headcases that KD has dealt with this season. 

[Irieguy 1059]

15 hours ago, Aqua Buddha said:

The Lakers beat the Thunder the other night.  (Yes, the “Lakers beat the Supersonics.”)  Clippers beating them tonight.  Okie City only played six guys both games.  Two of them were from the G League and the others were all 10 day contract guys.  The other players on the active roster were told before the game they’d only play in an emergency.  One of the guys is a 6'0" point guard whose go to move is, yes, the sky hook.

They were told to lose in a loud and grotesque manner and they did.

To be fair, 6’0” sky hook guy is pretty awesome. Or at least fun to watch. 
 

https://amp.freep.com/amp/2529060002

[Irieguy 1059]

2 hours ago, gsoda3 said:

i thought the question was whether in hindsight you'd want

 

what happened in LA with lebron 

vs

running with the team they had in 18 and never signing lebron.

 

i'd select the second option.  even with that title they won.  yeah it's a championship and my friends and family who are lakers fans are glad they have it but they don't really value it (or lebron).  and i see their point.  they were interested for a couple years in the team but it's been a lot of frustration since then and there's still more pain coming.  

Fuck that. Take the championship. Multiple championships are never guaranteed and there is no such thing as a bad NBA championship. 

[Dutchrudder 11103]

19 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Simmons is not faking having back issues. It's been somewhat of a chronic issue with him. I'm pretty sure he does want to play for the Nets (i.e. ASAP) - but he's maybe reaping some of what he showed by not staying in basketball shape and potentially working through the back issues sooner (or maybe he just got unlucky timing wise).

I think he's genuinely been trying to get back on the court - and he seems to be getting closer - I'm just not sure when that process actually began. I don't see this as a continuation of the temper tantrum he was throwing in Philly.

Barring really serious injury issues he will play for the Nets next season. I also wouldn't be that surprised if he gives some spot minutes in the playoffs - even though I'm not sure the Nets should do that. 

Regardless of how the Simmons aspect plays out - talk about a couple of (or shit - a few of if you include Harden) headcases that KD has dealt with this season. 

Simmons is going to court with the 76ers over 20 million in lost wages. I don't believe for a second he is injured, I think he wants to maintain the appearance of being unable to play for mental health and physical issues so that his case against the 76ers is stronger. The Nets are paying him right now to do nothing, so he knows the rest of his contract is going to be paid. He wants that 20 million though, and he's not willing to risk hurting his legal effort to claw that back.  I don't think we will see him play until next year. 

[ztejas 43244]

21 minutes ago, Dutchrudder said:

Simmons is going to court with the 76ers over 20 million in lost wages. I don't believe for a second he is injured, I think he wants to maintain the appearance of being unable to play for mental health and physical issues so that his case against the 76ers is stronger.

I'm not sure that makes his case against the 6ers stronger. If he's trying to claim that Philly was the issue then pulling the same stunt for a different team doesn't really help. I agree he probably isn't playing this season but I don't think it's because he's trying to get back lost wages. 

[shadow_operative 15931]

please let this happen. 

Edited April 11, 2022 by shadow_operative

[Message Board User 12389]

Is there a worse HC job in the NBA than the Lakers?

Sky-high, unrealistic expectations, a defacto GM/HC in Lebron that you will answer to, about $140 million committed to 5 players next season, and no draft picks for the next zillion years.

[ztejas 43244]

3 minutes ago, Message Board User said:

Is there a worse HC job in the NBA than the Lakers?

Sky-high, unrealistic expectations, a defacto GM/HC in Lebron that you will answer to, about $140 million committed to 5 players next season, and no draft picks for the next zillion years.

Hahaha I'm literally right now listening to Lowe and Kevin Arnovitz talk about how dysfunctional the organization is and how fucking no one wants to coach that team. They compared Vogel to Ron Livingston in office space. 

[Brothahorn 10085]

Hahaha I'm literally right now listening to Lowe and Kevin Arnovitz talk about how dysfunctional the organization is and how fucking no one wants to coach that team. They compared Vogel to Ron Livingston in office space. 

If they were smart they would have brought Jerry back after Memphis, or GS.

[Aqua Buddha 14489]

1 hour ago, Message Board User said:

Is there a worse HC job in the NBA than the Lakers?

Sky-high, unrealistic expectations, a defacto GM/HC in Lebron that you will answer to, about $140 million committed to 5 players next season, and no draft picks for the next zillion years.

Someone mentioned Sam Presti going to LA.  Why the fuck would he want to do that for those reasons alone.  They're tied to expensive assets that no one really wants and no draft picks for the foreseeable future.  There's always the elusive free agent but you'll need the entire team.  

This might be a long assed rebuild.

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

Lakers are fucked for a few years.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8799]

Lakers are fucked for a few years.

Which is fine

[MNLonghornFUKM 8799]

Lots of fresh names on that list

[ztejas 43244]

5 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

 

 

Lots of fresh names on that list

 

If I was a Kings fan and they hired Mark Jackson I'd probably just go on a bender then off myself. 

[aggie08 21380]

1 hour ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Someone mentioned Sam Presti going to LA.  Why the fuck would he want to do that for those reasons alone.  They're tied to expensive assets that no one really wants and no draft picks for the foreseeable future.  There's always the elusive free agent but you'll need the entire team.  

This might be a long assed rebuild.

Sam Presti seems to be perfectly happy being the NBA genius that, you know, doesn't ever win shit.

[Kermit 3128]

1 hour ago, ztejas said:

If I was a Kings fan and they hired Mark Jackson I'd probably just go on a bender then off myself. 

Joke's on you. Any Kings fans who were left already did that after they traded Haliburton. 

[Francisco 2.0 32290]

4 hours ago, Message Board User said:

Is there a worse HC job in the NBA than the Lakers?

Sky-high, unrealistic expectations, a defacto GM/HC in Lebron that you will answer to, about $140 million committed to 5 players next season, and no draft picks for the next zillion years.

 

There's a Reddit thread from this evening:  Which is the worst job, the Lakers or Kings?

 

 

 

[Dutchrudder 11103]

3 hours ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

 

There's a Reddit thread from this evening:  Which is the worst job, the Lakers or Kings?

 

 

 

Definitely Sacramento. Nobody wants to live there, it's not fun, and you probably end up staying at least 3 of the 4 years on your contract.  At least the Lakers let you live in LA, and chances are they will give you about 4 years and 25m guaranteed for what will likely be 1 year of coaching before Lebron unceremoniously blames you for everything and fires you. I would be happy to take that abuse for 25m.

[ztejas 43244]

11 minutes ago, Dutchrudder said:

and you probably end up staying at least 3 of the 4 years on your contract. 

You can't be taken seriously in the NBA thread and make comments like this. 

[Serak The Preparer 3423]

6 hours ago, ztejas said:

You can't be taken seriously in the NBA thread and make comments like this. 

Before you throw too many rocks remember that it was just a month or so ago when you thought the Pacers were the worst-run team in the league.  

I get it, it's easy to forget about the Kings because they're, well, the Kings. That includes details like the fact that they've had 11 coaches in the last 16 years.

 

[Baboontyme 2807]

Brooklyn -8.5 vs Cle

Minnesota -3.5 vs LAC

These games are going to be some barn burners. High totals on both. Not a lot of defense. I think I like the Clippers to win outright. 

Tomorrow I think I have talked myself into the Hornets winning. 

[MNLonghornFUKM 8799]

It would fall in line with everything that is Minnesota sports to lose both play in games, at home.

[Vic Mackey 46919]

L

[Mitch Cumsteen 18517]

9 hours ago, Dutchrudder said:

Definitely Sacramento. Nobody wants to live there, it's not fun, and you probably end up staying at least 3 of the 4 years on your contract.  At least the Lakers let you live in LA, and chances are they will give you about 4 years and 25m guaranteed for what will likely be 1 year of coaching before Lebron unceremoniously blames you for everything and fires you. I would be happy to take that abuse for 25m.

The Lakers don't even pay coaches that well. Both Ty Lue and Monty Williams (IIRC) turned them down because dollars/years and Vogel was at best their third choice. And honestly, I thought Vogel did a great job there. He will get another gig.

[conVINCEd 21468]

22 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

L

I’m very enthused at the possibility of Mark Jackson no longer announcing NBA games.

[Brothahorn 10085]

Sam Presti seems to be perfectly happy being the NBA genius that, you know, doesn't ever win shit.

Another Darryl Morey.

[Post Oak 20182]

36 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

L

Haha.  That enthuses me as well.

[Dutchrudder 11103]

Congratulations to the Lakers for finally clearing some of that dead cap space!

[Vic Mackey 46919]

Lulz. Wasn't the last time he played with the Lakers like 6 years ago? Haven't heard that name in forever.

Edited April 12, 2022 by Vic Mackey

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

How is the Lakers GM still there though? The Westbrick trade was horrific.

Can hire the best coach ever and they are still screwed 

[Murfdogg21 4412]

6 minutes ago, Loch Ness Monster said:

How is the Lakers GM still there though? The Westbrick trade was horrific.

Can hire the best coach ever and they are still screwed 

Watch some asshole team be a sucker and bail them out by taking some of their turd contracts, possibly Westbrook.

[Aqua Buddha 14489]

They want to trade Westbrook and for Buddy Hield and Malcom Brogdon?  Hield has 2 more years with a total of $40M and Brogdon is signed through 2025 at $22M per year.  They're better off riding out the Westbrook contract.

[Wulaw Horn 18963]

53 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

They want to trade Westbrook and for Buddy Hield and Malcom Brogdon?  Hield has 2 more years with a total of $40M and Brogdon is signed through 2025 at $22M per year.  They're better off riding out the Westbrook contract.

No way.  Hield and Brogdon would actually help them.  Westbrick is a millstone around their neck, drowning and choking the life out of any semblance of chance they would have to be competitive next year.  They would crawl over hot coals to make that deal I'm sure, even extending the extra years. 

[Aqua Buddha 14489]

9 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

No way.  Hield and Brogdon would actually help them.  Westbrick is a millstone around their neck, drowning and choking the life out of any semblance of chance they would have to be competitive next year.  They would crawl over hot coals to make that deal I'm sure, even extending the extra years. 

Yeah, I get that but are they competitive next year?  I don’t know the status of all their contracts but unless AD is reasonably healthy and they can turn over the rest of the roster, I’m not sure that helps.

[Dutchrudder 11103]

12 hours ago, ztejas said:

You can't be taken seriously in the NBA thread and make comments like this. 

I'll admit I don't pay one but of attention to the Kings, but I had to look up their coach turnover. Nobody since Rick Adelman (98-06) has had more than 3 years as HC of the Kings lol... I had no idea it was that bad. George fucking Karl was their head coach for a year!!!  What a crazy fucking team, I don't know how they are so bad. I don't know how they can afford to pay all these coaches and their staff. The NBA should force a sale of the team and move them to Seattle ASAP.

[4doorsMoreWhores 107]

21 hours ago, Message Board User said:

Is there a worse HC job in the NBA than the Lakers?

Sky-high, unrealistic expectations, a defacto GM/HC in Lebron that you will answer to, about $140 million committed to 5 players next season, and no draft picks for the next zillion years.

And you'll have to draft Bronny in a couple of years and give him whatever minutes Lebron demands

[Wulaw Horn 18963]

Just now, Aqua Buddha said:

Yeah, I get that but are they competitive next year?  I don’t know the status of all their contracts but unless AD is reasonably healthy and they can turn over the rest of the roster, I’m not sure that helps.

So, if you are asking if this makes them a title contender I'd say probably not.  But, a starting five of Brogdon, Hield, LBJ, AD and I guess Dwert is at least somewhat interesting.  Lebron needs shooters around him and Hield helps there.  Brogdon helps with secondary play making.  I'd rather LBJ at 4 and Davis at 5 but neither of them want to do that so Howard it is I guess.  Then, they'd have $11,000,000 to spend on a midlevel exception and maybe $3,000,000 on another exception. If they could get a scorer off the bench and a 3D guy with some energy, and a bounce back from THT, and credible minutes from that scrappy white guy that sort of sucks but isn't terrible and they get along and stay healthy could they be a 4 seed next year?  Sure, why not. If you have a healthy LBJ and a healthy AD in a playoff series and some pieces around them that make sense is that going to be a team that anyone really wants something to do with playing?  Probably not.  Call it a 5% chance at winning a title (maybe less) and a 70% chance at not being a clown show.  

If it's me I trade LBJ, I trade AD, keep Russ and figure I have an extremely clean cap sheet and New Orleans pick next year (figuring they will swap with me b/c mine will be shittier).  That's 12-18 range most likely.  You should be able to get a contributer in that range.  Then, you should be able to start drafting using other teams picks from you LBJ and AD deals.  Then, LA with cap space is always a winner.  Sign Zion- it's not that much money on his first max (let him know to play for the minimum so he goes unrestricted), sign Beal, sign RJ Barret (same deal as Zion) or obviously Ja (they are probably out on him until he goes to his 3rd contract but you know they aren't afraid to tamper and tell them it's a young guns we run this town and league in the most important basketball market in the country.  Something like that if it was me.  

[shadow_operative 15931]

[Aqua Buddha 14489]

25 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

So, if you are asking if this makes them a title contender I'd say probably not.  But, a starting five of Brogdon, Hield, LBJ, AD and I guess Dwert is at least somewhat interesting.  Lebron needs shooters around him and Hield helps there.  Brogdon helps with secondary play making.  I'd rather LBJ at 4 and Davis at 5 but neither of them want to do that so Howard it is I guess.  Then, they'd have $11,000,000 to spend on a midlevel exception and maybe $3,000,000 on another exception. If they could get a scorer off the bench and a 3D guy with some energy, and a bounce back from THT, and credible minutes from that scrappy white guy that sort of sucks but isn't terrible and they get along and stay healthy could they be a 4 seed next year?  Sure, why not. If you have a healthy LBJ and a healthy AD in a playoff series and some pieces around them that make sense is that going to be a team that anyone really wants something to do with playing?  Probably not.  Call it a 5% chance at winning a title (maybe less) and a 70% chance at not being a clown show.  

If it's me I trade LBJ, I trade AD, keep Russ and figure I have an extremely clean cap sheet and New Orleans pick next year (figuring they will swap with me b/c mine will be shittier).  That's 12-18 range most likely.  You should be able to get a contributer in that range.  Then, you should be able to start drafting using other teams picks from you LBJ and AD deals.  Then, LA with cap space is always a winner.  Sign Zion- it's not that much money on his first max (let him know to play for the minimum so he goes unrestricted), sign Beal, sign RJ Barret (same deal as Zion) or obviously Ja (they are probably out on him until he goes to his 3rd contract but you know they aren't afraid to tamper and tell them it's a young guns we run this town and league in the most important basketball market in the country.  Something like that if it was me.  

Yeah, that’s what I would do.  Trade Bron and AD both and ride out Russ’s cap space. Just blow it up and start over.  Otherwise, it’s 3-5 years of mediocrity at best.

[Wulaw Horn 18963]

4 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Yeah, that’s what I would do.  Trade Bron and AD both and ride out Russ’s cap space. Just blow it up and start over.  Otherwise, it’s 3-5 years of mediocrity at best.

You are an OkC fan. How would the fan base feel about tail end LBJ?  Playing with Bronny. Being mediocre and probably a playoff team with sga. National shine. Probably have guys that want to play there. Cashing in some of the billion draft picks you have. I think I’d do it if I was OKC, LA and Lebron. 

[Wulaw Horn 18963]

Just now, Wulaw Horn said:

You are an OkC fan. How would the fan base feel about tail end LBJ?  Playing with Bronny. Being mediocre and probably a playoff team with sga. National shine. Probably have guys that want to play there. Cashing in some of the billion draft picks you have. I think I’d do it if I was OKC, LA and Lebron. 

I’m thinking OkC’s picks in 24 and 26. Y’all should be good enough in 24 if Lebron was there that it’s not a huge loss- like middle of first round. I’d be willing to lotto protect top 4 if I was La. You also have the houston pick coming in for sure. And a boatload of others I’m sure. 

[ztejas 43244]

7 hours ago, Serak The Preparer said:

Before you throw too many rocks remember that it was just a month or so ago when you thought the Pacers were the worst-run team in the league.  

I get it, it's easy to forget about the Kings because they're, well, the Kings. That includes details like the fact that they've had 11 coaches in the last 16 years.

 

I don't remember saying that. If so, not sure it's far off the mark. I mean if they actually trade for Westbrook...

[Wulaw Horn 18963]

8 minutes ago, ztejas said:

I don't remember saying that. If so, not sure it's far off the mark. I mean if they actually trade for Westbrook...

It’s not a bad trade at all for them. They are rebuilding. Russ is good at submarining teams. It’s gets them out of money in 2023 and 2024 and cleans up their cap sheet immediately. Bronson and Heild  have very little/no surplus value. 
I like the move for Indy. The goal next year is to suck. Suck with Russ. Take your medicine and move on.