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No thread about those missionaries kidnapped in Haiti?

Parliament

By Parliament
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Parliament

Parliament 14,265

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Dirty ball, kidnapping a buncha Mennonites trying to help.  But whatever I guess.  Is Seal Team 6 still around?  Can we get them in there to fetch these guys?

A gang that kidnapped 17 members of a U.S.-based missionary group demanded $1 million ransom per person, although authorities were not clear whether that amount included the five children being held, a top Haitian official said Tuesday.

The official, who was not authorized to speak to the press, told The Associated Press that someone from the 400 Mawozo gang made the demand Saturday in a call to a leader of the ministry group shortly after the abduction.

https://apnews.com/article/business-crime-ohio-united-nations-port-au-prince-bdea158b02a67c4cef77492a89088660

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F250

F250 28,789

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1 hour ago, Parliament said:

Dirty ball, kidnapping a buncha Mennonites trying to help.  But whatever I guess.  Is Seal Team 6 still around?  Can we get them in there to fetch these guys?

https://apnews.com/article/business-crime-ohio-united-nations-port-au-prince-bdea158b02a67c4cef77492a89088660

Aren't Mennonites pacifists?

 

 

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InkaUtexas

InkaUtexas 26,008

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We should not get them. They should raise their own cash, call Erik Prince and let him go do it. Or pay the ransom. Missionairies get in trouble all the time. They do not conduct solid security assessments and believe their mission will protect them in a lot of instances. I work alongside them. Some are really good. Some believe their cult leaders and what they tell them. 

Dealing with that right now about advising a group to not go into Tigray without real security. Answer I got back from the non-deploying director is their mission will be respected by all. I laughed and reminded him IED's and ambushes do not see religion. 

I lived and worked in Haiti. You can move around if careful. These folks were in a bad location with what appears to be no security. Fucked up story, but it will happen again. 

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956 Worldwide

956 Worldwide 34,730

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The Mennonites and Christian Aid Ministries are far down the list of objectionable groups. They bring medicine and work on physical infrastructure work and do not tie it up with proselytizing or conversion efforts. 
 

Even if you think the adults  were stupid to go there and their religion is dumb, there’s an eight month old with them that some gang leader is threatening to shoot in the head. 

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KYHorn

KYHorn 17,098

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3 hours ago, RPM said:

Ts & Ps should do.

You realize that these are the types who are actually doing more than just offering thoughts and prayers? They're willing to leave their comfortable lives and put their life on the line to help when most won't even send money. I don't have to agree with all of their beliefs to respect that deeply. Call them reckless, sure, but they're not in Haiti to give thoughts and prayers.

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RPM

RPM 26,326

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25 minutes ago, KYHorn said:

You realize that these are the types who are actually doing more than just offering thoughts and prayers? They're willing to leave their comfortable lives and put their life on the line to help when most won't even send money. I don't have to agree with all of their beliefs to respect that deeply. Call them reckless, sure, but they're not in Haiti to give thoughts and prayers.

They're there to convert.

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TXSG8R

TXSG8R 3,362

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2 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

The Mennonites and Christian Aid Ministries are far down the list of objectionable groups. They bring medicine and work on physical infrastructure work and do not tie it up with proselytizing or conversion efforts. 
 

Even if you think the adults  were stupid to go there and their religion is dumb, there’s an eight month old with them that some gang leader is threatening to shoot in the head. 

The road to ruin is paved with good intentions. The State Dept has a level 4 do not travel advisory for Haiti, with violence and kidnappings as part of the advisory. It’s tragic that an 8 month old is in that position, but the blame lies squarely with the ministry group. 

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956 Worldwide

956 Worldwide 34,730

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18 minutes ago, TXSG8R said:

The road to ruin is paved with good intentions. The State Dept has a level 4 do not travel advisory for Haiti, with violence and kidnappings as part of the advisory. It’s tragic that an 8 month old is in that position, but the blame lies squarely with the ministry group. 

I’d argue that the blame lies squarely with the person who has the gun and is threatening to use it to kill an infant, but OK. 

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TXSG8R

TXSG8R 3,362

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4 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

I’d argue that the blame lies squarely with the person who has the gun and is threatening to use it to kill an infant, but OK. 

Yes, when someone ignores the warning signs and enters the crocodile pit in the zoo, it’s the crocodiles fault for acting like a crocodile. 

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next2naus

next2naus 439

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3 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

The Mennonites and Christian Aid Ministries are far down the list of objectionable groups. They bring medicine and work on physical infrastructure work and do not tie it up with proselytizing or conversion efforts. 
 

Even if you think the adults  were stupid to go there and their religion is dumb, there’s an eight month old with them that some gang leader is threatening to shoot in the head. 

they brought an eight month old to Haiti, I'd shoot the parents

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TXSG8R

TXSG8R 3,362

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5 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Comparing Haitian people to animals seems a bit out of step with the times, but you do you. 

image.gif.6343a0747cddbbe5d1b45b05dc28b6df.gif

The SD travel advisory warned about kidnappings and violence. The missionaries ignored the warning signs about kidnapping and violence. They then took an 8 month old into the allegorical crocodile pit.  Didn’t realize I had to spell this out, my apologies.

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Bevo

Bevo 13,583

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A lot of Haitians in the US are too scared to visit their relatives in Haiti. Calling the area the Wild West and everything that goes with it doesn't really seem out of line. Were the Germans animals for trying to exterminate gays, jews, and the disabled? Were Pol Pot and his followers animals?

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Bevo

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1 hour ago, OneOfTheOutOfFocusGuys said:

the only good thing about our interventionism is that we can do good things abroad because people don't like to fuck with americans.  we should get the people out in as violent a manner as possible, and next time there will be no next time.

In a place with no central government and lawlessness like Haiti, there will always be a next time. You can only hope that someone with brains pulls aside the guys with no brains and tells them they are idiots. They are going to die. And the only sensible solution is to release the prisoners.

This won't happen though because the people who are ransoming are desperate. I agree that we should go in, but expect that lives will be lost and there will be fallout. Paying ransom is a bad idea for not just the precedence but also as Inka said, certain humanitarian groups need to understand that this is how the US operates. Giving the terrorist money fucks up the situation for the next bunch despots in Haiti can find.

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InkaUtexas

InkaUtexas 26,008

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1 hour ago, mchookem said:

okay, so they had good intentions and maybe weren't just trying to convert...but who the FUCK takes kids including an 8 MONTH OLD BABY into a place like that?? stupid fucking naive people. damn. 

Seen it a lot. Central America, Afghanistan, you name it. A- Husband or wife get a job. Partner wants to go. Kid cannot stay alone, whatever, always a reason. I have seen three year olds on reconstruction sites after the 1986 earthquake. Place was a mess. Disease, little water, but we thought little jimmy would learn so much. 

The issue is not so much taking kids to these areas. It is that they do not think they need to prepare a security operation, keep it quiet, etc. Nah, they want to sing Kumbaya on the plane and tell everyone exactly what they are doing. They announce it on Facebook. Now they are giving the other groups, and there are a lot in Haiti, inspiration to do the same. If for any reason the media attention in the international world. If we pay up, more get kidnapped. And really? How ya going to build an orphanage while carrying my 8 month old? 

I feel the same way about people who want to do adventure tours into places like Mali on their own. Something goes wrong why should embassy security personnel risk their asses for you? They have jobs and take them away from that puts the entire mission at risk. 

And to be honest. I wanted to take my son to Kabul when he was 12 for a two day trip. I had a very secure compound on the back of the airport so did not even have to go to the main roads. Damn good security personnel, etc. He would have had a blast. He knew all our expat security team since they stayed at our house in Dubai when they transited through for leave. Still with that set up I never did. One reason that stuck in my brain was I would never be able to focus on the two day meetings and we were never leaving the compound.

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Blotto

Blotto 23,560

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2 hours ago, mchookem said:

okay, so they had good intentions and maybe weren't just trying to convert...but who the FUCK takes kids including an 8 MONTH OLD BABY into a place like that?? stupid fucking naive people. damn. 

Yup. a lot of bad shit happens in the world today that I wish didnt happen. I certainly wish these folks weren't in the predicament they find themselves in. But they ignored a very specific travel advisery and common sense, taking children and an infant with them in the process. They made a choice to be there, now they have to face the consequences of that decision.

image.png.226012ea128dd03daa823f10562c6ccd.png

 

 I feel bad for the children in this case, but their parents are gotdamn morons.

US Government : "DO NOT DO TRAVEL TO HAITI  OR THIS BAD SHIT IS LIKELY TO HAPPEN"

Christian Aid Ministries: "we better bring our kids"

Edited by Blotto
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