Alec Baldwin Shoots and Kills Cinematographer, Wounds Director

[immortal13 4,059]

8 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

Has it been confirmed that it was a live round that caused this?

You're not a smart man, are you?

[henrygandorf 29,194]

5 minutes ago, smuggs said:

Yeah I should have also quoted @bad_teammate  when he said "unnecessary post-production". If something were to come out of this like a banning of functioning firearms on movie sets, then the post-production part would become necessary. It seems like the cost benefit is currently in favor of the guy sitting at a Mac adding muzzle blasts anyway, vs. the daily on set presence of an armorer.

i'd be completely in favor of restricting functioning firearms on sets as soon as we can start restricting functioning firearms everywhere else.

[Nivek 16,960]

1 hour ago, smuggs said:

You can use phony guns or Airsoft guns and create CGI gun blasts complete with muzzle flash, cycling actions and ejecting shell casings with Adobe After Effects. This dude has a tutorial where it took him roughly 20 minutes to create the gunfire below. He also offers his own software pack for $99 that includes a shit ton of stock gun fire effects that he already created, that are licensed and ready for use. I'm sure there are a million other similar software tools out there.

This whole situation with "is this gun hot or cold?" is so fucking pointless and stupid. RIP to the woman who lost her life because of the dumbass shenanigans at every turn.

 

https://www.premiumbeat.com/blog/create-realistic-muzzle-flashes-in-after-effects/

 

 

It looks like shit.  The point of the blanks is to give realistic recoil and the muzzle effects without shit CGI.  The half-powder dummy rounds works fine.   The protocols seem to work fine when followed.  It sounds like the issue here is well they didn't.   But this looks like some shit I used to see on Sy-Fy movies back when I had cable.    

[shadow_operative 15,932]

19 minutes ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

Can a muzzle flash create a sweet lens flare?

 

Also, what jobs other than Hollywood Actor and Child Soldier require the use of firearms but not instruction in how to use them safely? Why is there so much resistance to the idea that actors should no how to do their job when it comes to guns and gun safety? Obviously the existing safety protocols didn't work and somebody is dead. But no need to be safer than we already are(n't)!

good questions, none of which have already been repeatedly asked and answered in this thread. 👌🏼 

[immortal13 4,059]

4 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

i'd be completely in favor of restricting functioning firearms on sets as soon as we can start restricting functioning firearms everywhere else.

Cloak Room is down the hall. You'll notice the smell when you're getting close

[henrygandorf 29,194]

1 minute ago, immortal13 said:

Cloak Room is down the hall. You'll notice the smell when you're getting close

soap?

[immortal13 4,059]

3 minutes ago, Nivek said:

It looks like shit.  The point of the blanks is to give realistic recoil and the muzzle effects without shit CGI.  The half-powder dummy rounds works fine.   The protocols seem to work fine when followed.  It sounds like the issue here is well they didn't.   But this looks like some shit I used to see on Sy-Fy movies back when I had cable.    

Derka says they work often enough. Case closed

[immortal13 4,059]

Just now, henrygandorf said:

soap?

I doubt it would do any good

[bad_teammate 13,222]

9 minutes ago, smuggs said:

It seems like the cost benefit is currently in favor of the guy sitting at a Mac adding muzzle blasts anyway, vs. the daily on set presence of an armorer.

I need the gun itself to look as real as possible

I need the actors around to react to the loud noise as authentically as possible

I need the actor to feel and demonstrate the weight of the gun accurately

I need the actor to deal with recoil as realistically as possible

[Dutchrudder 11,150]

17 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

Has it been confirmed that it was a live round that caused this?

A blank or wad isn't going to kill one person and injure another, it was clearly a live round.  

[bad_teammate 13,222]

7 minutes ago, Nivek said:

It looks like shit. 

Yeah that clip of the guy shooting a bunch of different guns looks bad. Good enough for a lot of people, I guess, but creative types tend to be picky.

[bad_teammate 13,222]

1 minute ago, Dutchrudder said:

A blank or wad isn't going to kill one person and injure another, it was clearly a live round.  

depends on how long he'd been holding it in

NoFap power in action

[DDD Dad 14,346]

14 minutes ago, immortal13 said:

You're not a smart man, are you?

Not particularly.  Not sure what that has to do with me asking a question about what the actual facts are surrounding the incident, though.  I simply haven't seen anything confirming exactly what happened.  I've seen lots of speculation, though. 

[DDD Dad 14,346]

6 minutes ago, Dutchrudder said:

A blank or wad isn't going to kill one person and injure another, it was clearly a live round.  

Ah, so speculation.  Got it.

[immortal13 4,059]

3 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

Not particularly.  Not sure what that has to do with me asking a question about what the actual facts are surrounding the incident, though.  I simply haven't seen anything confirming exactly what happened.  I've seen lots of speculation, though. 

Only a live round could pass through a person and injured another. A blank or dummy round could not do that. A blank has killed someone on a film set before but it was at point blank range

[Dutchrudder 11,150]

Ah, so speculation.  Got it.

If you can point me to anything explaining how a blank or a wad would kill a person, I would be happy to read it. Wads have killed actors in the past, but that was with the gun barrel directly on the person's head, and the blast would cause their skull to crack and cave in to the brain.

All the reports say it was a "live round" and that the projectile was recovered from a victims body. I can understand skepticism in some stories, but this one is a no brainer.

[Dutchrudder 11,150]

https://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/in-the-know/578726-officials-recover-hundreds-of-rounds-of-ammunition-from-rust

 

Quote

 

Mendoza said the projectile that struck Souza was recovered by medical personnel treating him and is considered to be "the live round that was fired from the revolver" by Baldwin.

The ammunition authorities say they found on the set includes a "mix of blanks, dummy rounds and what we are suspecting [are] live rounds."

...

"We're trying to determine the people that inspected or handled the firearm when it was loaded before it got to Mr. Baldwin," Mendoza said. "So there's further investigation, further interviews — we're going to try and determine exactly how that happened and if they should have known that there was a live round in that firearm."

 

 

Edited October 27, 2021 by Dutchrudder

[immortal13 4,059]

8 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

Not particularly.  Not sure what that has to do with me asking a question about what the actual facts are surrounding the incident, though.  I simply haven't seen anything confirming exactly what happened.  I've seen lots of speculation, though. 

And reports are already out that they found lead. Is that enough proof for you? 

[DDD Dad 14,346]

All I asked was whether it had been confirmed to have been a live round.  Y'all come back insulting me but not offering anything other than your own expert analysis.

A simple "yes" with a link to some valid news source would have sufficed.

Edited October 27, 2021 by DDD Dad

[DDD Dad 14,346]

3 minutes ago, Dutchrudder said:

https://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/in-the-know/578726-officials-recover-hundreds-of-rounds-of-ammunition-from-rust

 

 

Curious that you chose that source over, say Reuters.

[Captainant 27,722]

1 minute ago, DDD Dad said:

Curious that you chose that source over, say Reuters.

the hill is generally a pretty fact-based and reputable paper, fwiw.

[DDD Dad 14,346]

3 minutes ago, immortal13 said:

And reports are already out that they found lead. Is that enough proof for you? 

 

[pantone159 719]

This Washington Post story claims:

Quote

A “lead projectile” was recovered from director Joel Souza’s shoulder as evidence in the fatal shooting last week on the set of the western “Rust,” according to authorities.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arts-entertainment/2021/10/27/alec-baldwin-rust-updates/

Spoiler

A “lead projectile” was recovered from director Joel Souza’s shoulder as evidence in the fatal shooting last week on the set of the western “Rust,” according to authorities.

Santa Fe County Sheriff Adan Mendoza held a news conference with District Attorney Mary Carmack-Altwies Wednesday in Santa Fe, N.M., nearly a week after Alec Baldwin discharged a firearm while rehearsing a scene on the nearby set, killing cinematographer Halyna Hutchins and injuring Souza. An affidavit filed by a sheriff’s office detective stated that assistant director Dave Halls handed Baldwin the weapon after mistakenly describing it as a “cold gun,” a term meaning it did not contain a live round.

 

Mendoza said at the conference that his office collected roughly 600 pieces of evidence from the set, including what he believes to be the Colt revolver Baldwin discharged and the spent shell casing from what was fired. They also gathered around 500 rounds of ammunition — which Mendoza described as a “mix of blanks, dummy rounds and what we are suspecting are live rounds" — and two additional firearms: a single-action revolver that appeared to have been modified, as well as a plastic, non-functioning weapon.

The items have been submitted to the FBI crime lab in Quantico, Va., according to Mendoza, who referred to the projectile as a “suspected live round.” He said the round extracted from Souza’s shoulder appeared to be the same one that killed Hutchins, but that the medical investigator would need to confirm as much.

Carmack-Altwies said criminal charges have not been ruled out in the case, but that it is too early in the investigation to determine whether they will be filed at any point. Mendoza stressed that his office still needs to conduct numerous interviews; detectives spoke to the 16 people in the vicinity of the shooting, he said, but there were approximately 90 people on set that day.

The affidavit provided a detailed chronology of what unfolded last Thursday on the set of “Rust.” The detective interviewed Souza and camera operator Reid Russell, the latter of whom said around six members of the camera crew had walked out on the low-budget project in protest of labor issues related to payment and housing. Production started late that day because they decided to hire another crew to step in for those who had left, according to Souza, who added that they were also working with a single camera on set.

Souza and Hutchins stood next to the camera that afternoon to assess an angle for a scene set inside a church building on Bonanza Creek Ranch. The director said Baldwin was sitting on a wooden pew to rehearse for a scene requiring him to cross draw his weapon and point it toward the camera. According to the affidavit, armorer Hannah Gutierrez — who, in that position, was in charge of managing all the firearms on set and making sure they were safely handled — had left three guns on a cart outside the building. Halls picked one up from there and, saying “cold gun,” handed it to Baldwin.

After hearing “what sounded like a whip and then loud pop,” Souza saw Hutchins grab her abdomen and stumble backward. He was bleeding from his shoulder and said he saw blood on Hutchins as well. Russell, who was standing nearby, recalled Hutchins saying she couldn’t feel her legs.

[More text that I did not feel like pasting...]

 

[Dutchrudder 11,150]

2 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

Curious that you chose that source over, say Reuters.

Well when I link NYT, the poors get upset because they have a paywall.  

[DDD Dad 14,346]

3 minutes ago, Dutchrudder said:

Well when I link NYT, the poors get upset because they have a paywall.  

I don't (I have a subscription).

I just don't have a lot of familiarity with the Hill and found a story in Reuters and at NBC confirming as you were posting.  Was genuinely curious.

Edited October 27, 2021 by DDD Dad

[Dutchrudder 11,150]

2 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

I don't.

I just don't have a lot of familiarity with the Hill and found a story in Reuters and at NBC confirming as you were posting.  Was genuinely curious.

I actually went to NYT to copy the link, then realized it was NYT, backed out, scrolled down the top 10 search result list and picked the first one that said "live round" in the preview. I don't really care for The Hill, but they had the same quotes as the NYT article anyway, so should be fine for this report.  

Edited October 27, 2021 by Dutchrudder

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4,976]

11 minutes ago, immortal13 said:

And reports are already out that they found lead. Is that enough proof for you? 

It's still a legit question. I believe it was in The Crow that the bullet from a dummy round had come loose and lodged in the barrel (probably wasn't crimped and engaged the rifling enough to hold it in place when the chamber was cleared). A blank was subsequently chambered for a scene and some people had a bad time.

[immortal13 4,059]

7 minutes ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

It's still a legit question. I believe it was in The Crow that the bullet from a dummy round had come loose and lodged in the barrel (probably wasn't crimped and engaged the rifling enough to hold it in place when the chamber was cleared). A blank was subsequently chambered for a scene and some people had a bad time.

I'm almost positive the bullet that caused that death was a regular live round that was mixed in a magazine of blanks or dummy rounds. 

[strangulation! 1,716]

27 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

Y'all come back insulting me but not offering anything other than your own expert analysis.

new surly motto?

[henrygandorf 29,194]

Just now, immortal13 said:

I'm almost positive the bullet that caused that death was a regular live round that was mixed in a magazine of blanks or dummy rounds. 

the fact that gun people consider this a possibility is pretty horrifying.  the real investigation here (other than the obvious chain of custody issues with the first ad) will be about whether the gun was taken off set to a range for target practice (or general fuckery) and who was in charge of the weapon/ammo during this side jaunt.

the fact that it wasn't safely locked away is an armorer issue.  if she was with them, that's a whole separate issue.  and if they went to a range, i would expect live ammo to be used, which begs the question - why would a prop gun, under the care of an armorer, ever be exposed to live ammo during the ~30 days of shooting for a movie.

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

53 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

soap?

Nahhh, bullshit.

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

36 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

All I asked was whether it had been confirmed to have been a live round.  Y'all come back insulting me but not offering anything other than your own expert analysis.

A simple "yes" with a link to some valid news source would have sufficed.

Oh so it's not cool too insult you, but cool for you to do it to other posters (as you've done in the past)....  gotcha,  special snowflake right here ^^^

[henrygandorf 29,194]

1 minute ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

special snowflake right here ^^^

all snowflakes, by definition, are special.

[burntorangebongos 10,751]

I have a question. I heard an actor say that he was real nervous about the scene he was in where he was shot at. Edit: found it. "Ian Hudson recalled an experience on set when he was exposed to gunfire while the camera and crew were protected by a shield.

That made me question me being in front of the camera and being between all of that fire. When the rounds were released I did feel the blanks hitting my face and body"

Is it normal to feel the blanks? Where do they get the blanks? Are they bought or made on set? 

Edited October 27, 2021 by burntorangebongos

[Cheeseweasel 26,438]

1 hour ago, David Dennison said:

I just wish someone would train actors that when they fire rifles or shotguns they should act like there is a kick. 

Can we first work on the "unlimited ammo in a pistol" issue?

[DDD Dad 14,346]

Oh so it's not cool too insult you, but cool for you to do it to other posters (as you've done in the past)....  gotcha,  special snowflake right here ^^^

Would you like a snickers too?

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4,976]

43 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

the fact that gun people consider this a possibility is pretty horrifying.  the real investigation here (other than the obvious chain of custody issues with the first ad) will be about whether the gun was taken off set to a range for target practice (or general fuckery) and who was in charge of the weapon/ammo during this side jaunt.

the fact that it wasn't safely locked away is an armorer issue.  if she was with them, that's a whole separate issue.  and if they went to a range, i would expect live ammo to be used, which begs the question - why would a prop gun, under the care of an armorer, ever be exposed to live ammo during the ~30 days of shooting for a movie.

I would be more concerned about the ammo getting mixed up somehow than a gun being used at the range and on set. Typically with a revolver you would shoot all six shots and then either empty the casings or leave them in (since they are harmless) at the end of the shooting session. Especially if they are being used on a movie set. There would be no reason for them to be left loaded with live ammunition. But even then it can't be too much more expensive to rent an extra one for the range for the 30 days or so of the shoot. The Italian Colt replicas on cost $500 or so new.

[Michael Knight 12,990]

 

[bad_teammate 13,222]

500 rounds of projectile ammo? what the hell!?!?

[henrygandorf 29,194]

12 minutes ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

I would be more concerned about the ammo getting mixed up somehow

well yeah.  i said the possibility of this was horrifying in the post you quoted. 

[conVINCEd 21,469]

2 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

500 rounds of projectile ammo? what the hell!?!?

I know.  This was a low budget film.  How in the hell could they afford that many bullets?

[burntorangebongos 10,751]

4 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

500 rounds of projectile ammo? what the hell!?!?

I checked, they mean total rounds, live and blank but didn't say how much of each type. I would assume more blanks. 

[bad_teammate 13,222]

5 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

I know.  This was a low budget film.  How in the hell could they afford that many bullets?

Alec Baldwin fetching brass and reloading his own blanks

[Nivek 16,960]

2 hours ago, Dutchrudder said:

A blank or wad isn't going to kill one person and injure another, it was clearly a live round.  

Too Short said his wad killed a woman.  I believe her name was Betty.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4,976]

15 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

well yeah.  i said the possibility of this was horrifying in the post you quoted. 

Yeah. If the dummy rounds are just rounds with the powder removed and bb's put inside and the primer detonated, then you'd have to either look closely or shake each individual round to tell tue difference. That throws up a huge red flag for me, which is why I said the primer or entire base should be painted a different color to make it obvious with even a cursory glance which is which.

[Johnny Sack 8,397]

On 10/26/2021 at 12:47 PM, MrBig said:

The gun went off when AB was rehearsing a cross draw of the gun while the DP and director were setting up the shot. There was no indication that he was pointing the gun directly at the camera and pulling the trigger. So all this bullshit about checking the gun before you point it at the camera and pull the trigger is irrelevant here. 

 

[workswithseed 2,109]

4 hours ago, DDD Dad said:

All I asked was whether it had been confirmed to have been a live round.  Y'all come back insulting me but not offering anything other than your own expert analysis.

A simple "yes" with a link to some valid news source would have sufficed.

JuSt AsKiNg QuEsTiONs!!!

[DDD Dad 14,346]

25 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

JuSt AsKiNg QuEsTiONs!!!

[workswithseed 2,109]

1 minute ago, DDD Dad said:

Awe, don't like the taste of your own medicine. 

[DDD Dad 14,346]

9 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

Awe, don't like the taste of your own medicine. 

Considering my question was legitimate I'm not sure what medicine you think you're administering.