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Alec Baldwin Shoots and Kills Cinematographer, Wounds Director

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By atomheartbevo
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Armybrat

Armybrat 40559

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, Cheeseweasel said:

This could be simply solved going forward if they would use finger guns and say "pew pew" like we did as kids. No one was harmed in my neighborhood as a result.

Yeah, pussies.

When playing Army as a kid in the mid 1950s, I used a Belgian FN Browning Automatic Rifle copy just like this one. Damn thing was pretty heavy dragging it around the neighborhood, but nobody cared or even paid attention.

 

7C3AB290-2D68-412B-9814-C495563B5727.jpeg

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deadshank
deadshank

18 pages in….too soon?

otisdog
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Soooo....long time entertainment employee here - multiple f*ckups here. Reading the above article that mentioned it was a 'tier one' movie. That means it was a union show, but had a 6 million dollar m

Brisketexan
Brisketexan

Fee free to point to the stacks of posts admiring AB personally. He’s a fucking actor. He’s done some seriously funny shit, acted in some great roles, etc…and is also a raging asshole. As opposed t

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DDD Dad

DDD Dad 14076

Posted
Posted
ive been on HF/shaggy/surly since 2002, and i can count on one hand the number of times i've seen someone as obsessed about *anything* as onboard is with this thread. what makes it even more insane/sad is that he claims to be on a beach vacation throughout all of this. fucking hell man. 

The WiFi seems to be working.
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Onboard 2.0

Onboard 2.0 9083

Posted
Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

ive been on HF/shaggy/surly since 2002, and i can count on one hand the number of times i've seen someone as obsessed about *anything* as onboard is with this thread. what makes it even more insane/sad is that he claims to be on a beach vacation throughout all of this. fucking hell man. 

Says the guy with about 5 previous screen names, and his own personal, monthly, page in the "Texas Abhornent Psychology Today Journal".

 

 

Beach vacation ?  Nope, working remotely for 2 months.  Obsessed ?  Yeah that's it, ya got me. 

Edited by Onboard 2.0
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Scary Stranger

Scary Stranger 1711

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

ive been on HF/shaggy/surly since 2002, and i can count on one hand the number of times i've seen someone as obsessed about *anything* as onboard is with this thread. what makes it even more insane/sad is that he claims to be on a beach vacation throughout all of this. fucking hell man. 

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statsman

statsman 5355

Posted
Posted

The worst stories begin with, “I thought it wasn’t loaded…” and “He was swimming alone…”

Yes, trained gun owners know that it’s wrong to handle a loaded gun in play, to point it at others. Just like it’s wrong to take your clothes off in public, yet movie making requires actors to do both. It’s a different world.

The protocol of the armorer, described above, sounds like it would work. It sounds like protocol was broken in several key ways:

 Live ammo (that fit the pistols to be used) was on the set

The armorer was absent during parts of production when the firearms were out

In her absence, others assumed her role of distributing firearms

if only one of the three broken links occurred, things would have probably been ok. Maybe only two broken links, and nobody dies. But there were three, and tat is how Alec Baldwin is handed a loaded gun and told to play act with it. 

I understand that when he is handed a gun, from an armorer, and is told it is “cold”, he is to treat it as if it were unloaded. He wasn’t handed it by the armorer. He was handed it by the assistant director. He, as a veteran film actor and producer, is supposed to know that this was wrong. He does bear some responsibility, for not stopping things right there and asking why things were off protocol. If he had done that, and forced corrections, the cinematographer would still be alive. 
 

I don’t know that he is criminally at fault, but his judgment is definitely at fault and he bears some moral responsibility for the death and injury. 

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TXSG8R

TXSG8R 3325

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Posted

I can’t believe someone hasn’t stood up a usable prop gun company that would solve this issue.  Doesn’t seem difficult from an engineering perspective.

Replicas that have working feed/discharge mechanisms but dead ignition (inert firing pins). Eliminate the live/dummy/blank issue at its source while keeping the ability to film loading/unloading without having to use alternative weapons that could have live fire capability.  The replica system should be the only thing allowed on a set, ever.

Alternative spark and smoke source, electrically fired with an internal source that is decoupled from the ammo system entirely. Visually representative but low noise to reduce hearing risk.  Audio can be dubbed in later.  Weapon could probably provide a recordable metadata that audio techs could use to easily insert the proper gunfire location/direction/echos/etc.

RFID system that validates the weapon as an authenticated replica tied into a secure database.

Interrogation scanners/stations that can be used by the armorer and a second layer while on set before, during, and after shooting to validate replica status and chain of custody. Every actor scans their weapons walking into a scene for a visual approval that it’s safe to aim at anything other than the ground, every time. This could probably even be expanded to RFID wearables that track hand offs between people on set to further establish chain of custody.

Storage system that ties into RFID/audit system that checks guns in and out with approved armorer credentials. The system flags weapons as tampered if the case isn’t opened/closed according to procedures and credentials. Doesn’t eliminate the risk of weapon alteration entirely, but would reduce the list of suspects to the armorers that have the credentials to check and approve the weapons in the system. Also ensures alteration/chain of custody would almost entirely result in a murder charge because there is no real possibility of an accidental discharge through negligence. It would only result from a modification of the replica or tracking system.

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DDD Dad

DDD Dad 14076

Posted
Posted
I can’t believe someone hasn’t stood up a usable prop gun company that would solve this issue.  Doesn’t seem difficult from an engineering perspective.
Replicas that have working feed/discharge mechanisms but dead ignition (inert firing pins). Eliminate the live/dummy/blank issue at its source while keeping the ability to film loading/unloading without having to use alternative weapons that could have live fire capability.  The replica system should be the only thing allowed on a set, ever.
Alternative spark and smoke source, electrically fired with an internal source that is decoupled from the ammo system entirely. Visually representative but low noise to reduce hearing risk.  Audio can be dubbed in later.  Weapon could probably provide a recordable metadata that audio techs could use to easily insert the proper gunfire location/direction/echos/etc.
RFID system that validates the weapon as an authenticated replica tied into a secure database.
Interrogation scanners/stations that can be used by the armorer and a second layer while on set before, during, and after shooting to validate replica status and chain of custody. Every actor scans their weapons walking into a scene for a visual approval that it’s safe to aim at anything other than the ground, every time. This could probably even be expanded to RFID wearables that track hand offs between people on set to further establish chain of custody.
Storage system that ties into RFID/audit system that checks guns in and out with approved armorer credentials. The system flags weapons as tampered if the case isn’t opened/closed according to procedures and credentials. Doesn’t eliminate the risk of weapon alteration entirely, but would reduce the list of suspects to the armorers that have the credentials to check and approve the weapons in the system. Also ensures alteration/chain of custody would almost entirely result in a murder charge because there is no real possibility of an accidental discharge through negligence. It would only result from a modification of the replica or tracking system.

Sounds expensive.
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TXSG8R

TXSG8R 3325

Posted
Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:


Sounds expensive.

Up front, maybe a little, but whoever does this has the ability to rent these out in perpetuity. The TV and movie industry has the scratch. My guess is it’s going to be cheaper than the civil case that the OP will pay out. 
 

edit: and it would also probably reduce a substantial amount of the insurance premium that production companies/sets have to carry for filming with firearms. 
 

second edit: it would also speed up filming by eliminating all the shield setups and crew safety standoffs while hot guns are in use. More cost offset to pay for these toys. 

Edited by TXSG8R
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TriStone

TriStone 1724

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Posted
45 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

Ask auto manufacturers

Reminded me of Fight Club.  "You take the population of vehicles in the field (A) and multiply it by the probable rate of failure (B), then multiply the result by the average cost of an out-of-court settlement (C).  A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one."
 

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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 28873

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Posted
38 minutes ago, TriStone said:

Reminded me of Fight Club.  "You take the population of vehicles in the field (A) and multiply it by the probable rate of failure (B), then multiply the result by the average cost of an out-of-court settlement (C).  A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one."
 

are there a lot of these kinds of accidents?

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Onboard 2.0

Onboard 2.0 9083

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

i have to ask, what’s with the space between your text and your question mark? it wouldn’t normally bother me, but you ask a lot of questions. 

What can I say ?  I'm a curious guy. I think question marks, and exclamation points tight up against a word look weird, just one of many personal quirks.  

I sincerely hope you aren't losing sleep over it.  And yes I know it's not grammatically correct, and no I don't apply it to all punctuation marks.

 

*I

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 45206

Posted
Posted
On 10/28/2021 at 8:13 AM, burntorangebongos said:

He was told "cold gun", which means no blanks that go bang should be in the weapon. 

Not according to a report I read yesterday, which claimed "cold gun" means a gun with no live ammo.  It is likely to be loaded with blanks.

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burntorangebongos

burntorangebongos 10658

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, jimmyjazz said:

Not according to a report I read yesterday, which claimed "cold gun" means a gun with no live ammo.  It is likely to be loaded with blanks.

Some blanks go bang and some don't. Cold gun means either no rounds or no blanks that go bang. On a movie set, they can have both kinds of rounds. Dummy rounds that look like bullets but don't have the caps to make them go bang or blanks that do go bang.

They are calling the crimped top rounds with caps "hot" and dummy rounds without them "cold".

Edited by burntorangebongos
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Deej

Deej 76218

Posted
Posted

Read something today where the armorer's attorney says this falls at the feet of the producers and not his client, because they were trying to save money. 

Sure thing. You're client didn't do her job correctly because of the films budget. Not saying there's not some culpability on behalf of the production company, but for fuck's sake, your client seems more than a little incompetent. 

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burntorangebongos

burntorangebongos 10658

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Yeah, I'm interested in her part of the real gun being used for target practice during off hours. Was she with them and then took the gun back after clearing it of live rounds? Did she tell them to bring it back to her after use and then she'd clear the rounds before putting it in the gun safe? What did she do with the live rounds if they did bring the weapon back with them still loaded? 

Yeah, she still has lots of 'splaining to do. She isn't off the hook, imo.

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Onboard 2.0

Onboard 2.0 9083

Posted
Posted
43 minutes ago, Deej said:

Read something today where the armorer's attorney says this falls at the feet of the producers and not his client, because they were trying to save money. 

Sure thing. You're client didn't do her job correctly because of the films budget. Not saying there's not some culpability on behalf of the production company, but for fuck's sake, your client seems more than a little incompetent. 

She's fucked as well.

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Prepuce of Doom

Prepuce of Doom 20906

Posted
Posted (edited)
57 minutes ago, Deej said:

Read something today where the armorer's attorney says this falls at the feet of the producers and not his client, because they were trying to save money. 

Sure thing. You're client didn't do her job correctly because of the films budget. Not saying there's not some culpability on behalf of the production company, but for fuck's sake, your client seems more than a little incompetent. 

If you want the "don't kill people" package, it's going to cost extra! 

Edited by Prepuce of Doom
There's a Chipotle guacamole upcharge joke in here somewhere...
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South Austin

South Austin 51681

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Deej said:

Read something today where the armorer's attorney says this falls at the feet of the producers and not his client, because they were trying to save money. 

Sure thing. You're client didn't do her job correctly because of the films budget. Not saying there's not some culpability on behalf of the production company, but for fuck's sake, your client seems more than a little incompetent. 

School bus driver: The district doesn’t pay me enough which is why I drove my bus full of elementary kids into oncoming traffic .

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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 28873

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, burntorangebongos said:

Yeah, I'm interested in her part of the real gun being used for target practice during off hours. Was she with them and then took the gun back after clearing it of live rounds? Did she tell them to bring it back to her after use and then she'd clear the rounds before putting it in the gun safe? What did she do with the live rounds if they did bring the weapon back with them still loaded? 

Yeah, she still has lots of 'splaining to do. She isn't off the hook, imo.

let's assume for a minute that the gun (and any other real guns) lived in a lockbox only accessible by...the one person charged with keeping it safe - the armorer.  if she just kept it locked away until it needed to be used for a shot, then she wouldn't have anything to worry about.  other duties (propmaster?) shouldn't interfere at all in that circumstance.

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