Alec Baldwin Shoots and Kills Cinematographer, Wounds Director

[atomheartbevo 89015]

3 hours ago, Augustus said:

How any human being, anywhere can point a loaded gun at someone and pull the trigger,  and not be responsible for knowing whether it's loaded or not would be beyond me.

[Deej 76197]

53 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

Don't lose your head over it. 

[ButtFumble 5091]

here are the union guidelines for guns on set (not laws, just guidelines)

https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-59035488

• Blanks can kill. Treat all firearms as though they are loaded
• Refrain from pointing a firearm at yourself or anyone else
• Never place your finger on the trigger unless you're ready to shoot
• Anyone involved in using a firearm must be thoroughly briefed at an on-set safety meeting
• Only a qualified person should load a firearm
• Protective shields, eye and hearing protection should be used by anyone in close proximity or the line of fire
• Any actor who is required to stand near the line of fire should be allowed to witness the loading of the firearms

 

we know at least 3 of those were clearly not followed

and in addition I think it is clear the last one was not followed either, but we do not know of anyone requested to watch.....but of course we also know that a scene was actually not being filmed it was just alec being careless and going through the motions of pointing a gun at someone for "practice"......which should have never had a trigger pull, a loaded gun (loaded with anything), or really for that matter a real gun

there are questions as to who actually loaded the gun and there are a lot of questions about who controlled the guns on set and if the armorer was being run over and over worked

there are statements about the use of the prop guns during breaks to "plink" and play around by those on set which is why there were live rounds on set

there are questions about the security of the guns and the guns being left on set accessible to anyone including being fully unattended or accessible for "play" during breaks, lunch, and pre and post filming

it has been well documented that a lot of corners were cut on set and there was a lot of issues with the crew and having competent people in all positions and some crew turnover and animosity and especially with the armorer position.....there have been a number of well known ones that stated once they were aware of what the job was going to be and the conditions on set they declined the job immediately and stated they would never with with that type of production

alec was not just a "producer to get funding" he was funding and he was responsible for all aspects of this production including the low budget, cheap, and unsafe aspects of it and that is why he is being charged 

actors can 100% request to check their weapons before they use them on set, George Clooney says he does 100% of the time and I believe Tom Cruise checks his thoroughly as well

 

in this case there are a number of well documented issues that fall 100% on the producers and their cheapness and that starts with alec that was an active producer and not just that "in name only" and in addition this was not even for the actual filming it was just him playing around and "practicing" while pointing a gun at real people (that would not have been in the line of fire for the actual film scene) and pulling the trigger and that is 100% on him.....there was not need for that gun "play" and there was no need for a trigger pull even if there was some need for "practice" and there was no need to "practice" while people were in the line of fire especially when they would not have been in the line of fire for the actual filming

alec is 100% responsible at both ends of this tragedy as the person that was responsible for all conditions on set and all employees on set and as the person that pulled the trigger while not even filming an actual scene, but instead just "practicing" 

others may well be responsible once it comes out clearly who brought live ammo on set, who let the guns sit open and accessible and for who long, who actually loaded them, and who may have messed with them after they were suppose to be loaded with blanks

 

 

[shadow_operative 15931]

4 hours ago, Augustus said:

 

But the actors ought to be trained to check them anyway.

that's what the armorer is for. it is not the actor's responsibility to make sure they aren't shooting a loaded gun. what if the actor has never so much as fired or held a real gun before? that's why you have a paid expert on set in charge of this kind of stuff. i don't care what you think about AB, to blame him for not checking the gun himself is just wrong. 

[DixonHur 10859]

2 hours ago, Herpa Derpa said:

What is put on film and shown on the screen is make believe. What you are doing on a set is not, it is a work site. And Baldwin was a paid worker on that site that behaved in such a manner that another worker died. That's not make believe. That's a workplace incident that requires accountability by those in charge and those responsible for the death. Baldwin happens to be both, though I do agree the "producer" line is probably just a contract title. But this isn't the same as Brandon Lee or Jon-Erik Hexum, both of whom died because of their own stupid fuckery because they didn't understand blanks will kill when you put the nozzle to your temple. This was a live bullet in a working gun on an active set. Someone fucked up bad. And the entire chain of responsibility to make sure that fuck-up didn't happen failed, including Baldwin's failure to engage in proper safety protocols by knowing the weapon he was pointing at another human being to avoid such a tragic outcome. He's not being charged with murder, he's being charged with involuntary manslaughter, which is probably the correct charge given the known circumstances.

I understand what your saying, but that's not how Hollywood works.  It was not Alec's job to check the weapon, and frankly he might have gotten in trouble for doing so.  The armorer is a union job, and unions (in the case IATSE) carry a lot of weight in movie productions.  I once gotten written up on a film I was producing because I moved a lamp that was in the way of some people carrying something heavy.  It wasn't a stage lamp, and I moved it like 3 feet, yet they almost staged a walkout.  Doing someone else's job is a big non-no.  So if the armorer and AD tell him it's good, then he has to trust them.  

Again, I think the armorer and the AD should be held accountable, not Alec.  He was just doing his job, and trusting they were doing theirs.

[Deej 76197]

 

 

1 minute ago, DixonHur said:

Again, I think the armorer and the AD should be held accountable, not Alec.  He was just doing his job, and trusting they were doing theirs

Minus this part...

Quote

• Refrain from pointing a firearm at yourself or anyone else

 

[shadow_operative 15931]

it's hard to come up with the perfect analogy here because this situation is so unique to the film industry, but i'll try anyway. alec baldwin was handling a potentially dangerous piece of equipment at his job, a unique job in the entertainment industry where he and the people surrounding him are generally all highly trained, highly paid professionals. firearms are not AB's area of expertise, and that's exactly why there were multiple professionals on the scene whose job it was to make sure the firearms were safe. AB is just the guy who using the equipment, with every reasonable expectation that he hasn't just been handed a real live loaded fucking gun. so, for the admittedly poor analogy:

if the people responsible for setting up the goals at an NBA game do a lazy, shoddy, dangerous job at setting up the hoop and then Zion Williamson tears down the hoop on a dunk and kills a photographer on the base line, are you going to blame/charge/prosecute Zion Williamson? of course not. 

[DixonHur 10859]

5 minutes ago, Deej said:

Refrain from pointing a firearm at yourself or anyone else

 

[shadow_operative 15931]

6 minutes ago, Deej said:

 

 

Minus this part...

 

have you ever watched a movie with guns in it? ever since this thread started and multiple people here kept insisting that no gun should ever be pointed at anyone else on a movie set, now whenever i watch movies i've got a running count as to how many times one actor is pointing a gun directly at another actor's head, often from point blank range. at last count i think i'm up to about a billion instances of this on screen, and i don't exactly watch a ton of tv or movies. the idea that you could even make these movies while following a rule that says "don't point guns at people" is idiotic. the fact that so many people keep parroting it as a point of guilt towards alec baldwin is even dumber.

Edited January 20, 2023 by shadow_operative

[naija 2804]

I think the fact that so many people here are coming from a culture comfortable around guns here is coloring the perspective. You might not fathom how anyone can point a “loaded gun” at another human being without first checking, but it isn’t that far fetched in this situation. Unless part of the standard on movie sets is to provide every single person on a movie set training on that point, I don’t see how you can argue on a massive movie set where lots of people are handling guns, none of these have ever been pointed at other people without the actor/actress checking every time.

[Deej 76197]

No excuse.

[shadow_operative 15931]

10 minutes ago, Deej said:

No excuse.

you buy a car, it was poorly made, you drive it off the lot, it falls apart as you pull onto the highway causing a pileup, and 5 people die. you didn't personally inspect the car before getting on the highway. your fault. no excuse. 

[GoPokes83 2236]

So what’s the end game for the DA on this? Either they have some pretty damning evidence up their sleeve, or they’re just buckling to public pressure and are willing to spend a ton of taxpayer funds on a trial they know they won’t win just for the hell of it. Even if they were to get a conviction jail time is doubtful. While he’s been an angry asshat his entire adult life and has assaulted a few people, he’s no career criminal and it’s an astronomical chance he kills somebody else, at least in this manner.

[ButtFumble 5091]

34 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

I understand what your saying, but that's not how Hollywood works.  It was not Alec's job to check the weapon, and frankly he might have gotten in trouble for doing so.  The armorer is a union job, and unions (in the case IATSE) carry a lot of weight in movie productions.  I once gotten written up on a film I was producing because I moved a lamp that was in the way of some people carrying something heavy.  It wasn't a stage lamp, and I moved it like 3 feet, yet they almost staged a walkout.  Doing someone else's job is a big non-no.  So if the armorer and AD tell him it's good, then he has to trust them.  

Again, I think the armorer and the AD should be held accountable, not Alec.  He was just doing his job, and trusting they were doing theirs.

 

this MIGHT be the case on some sets.....BUT

https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/business/story/2021-10-22/alec-baldwin-rust-camera-crew-walked-off-set

Hours before actor Alec Baldwin fatally shot a cinematographer on the New Mexico set of “Rust” with a prop gun, a half-dozen camera crew workers walked off the set to protest working conditions.

The camera operators and their assistants were frustrated by the conditions surrounding the low-budget film, including complaints about long hours, long commutes and waiting for their paychecks, according to three people familiar with the matter who were not authorized to comment.

Safety protocols standard in the industry, including gun inspections, were not strictly followed on the “Rust” set near Santa Fe, the sources said. They said at least one of the camera operators complained last weekend to a production manager about gun safety on the set.

Three crew members who were present at the Bonanza Creek Ranch set on Saturday said they were particularly concerned about two accidental prop gun discharges.

Baldwin’s stunt double accidentally fired two rounds Saturday after being told that the gun was “cold” — lingo for a weapon that doesn’t have any ammunition, including blanks — two crew members who witnessed the episode told the Los Angeles Times.

“There should have been an investigation into what happened,” a crew member said. “There were no safety meetings. There was no assurance that it wouldn’t happen again. All they wanted to do was rush, rush, rush.”

 

As the camera crew — members of the International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees — spent about an hour assembling their gear at the Bonanza Creek Ranch, several nonunion crew members showed up to replace them, two of the knowledgeable people said.

One of the producers ordered the union members to leave the set and threatened to call security to remove them if they didn’t leave voluntarily.

“Corners were being cut — and they brought in nonunion people so they could continue shooting,” the knowledgeable person said.

The shooting occurred about six hours after the union camera crew left.

 

 

so there was not a union crew or union armor on this set and that was the CHOICE of the producer and production company which is alec baldwin and in fact there were prior issues that were ignored

even if one wants to continue to argue (wrongly) that he was producer "in name only" he was still the most powerful person on that set and if he gave a shit he had the ability to shut things down no matter what if there were major safety issues on set (and we can see there was) and he chose not to do so when he 100% had the ability

in addition he chose to "practice" with a weapon and point it at people when that was not necessary because the people he was pointing that weapon at were not going to be in the positions on set they were in when they got shot.....they would have been just off set in an area to view the monitors and look at the overall camera angles......but alec himself made a choice to "practice" with them in the line of fire and shot them

 

[Helobious 9420]

Mark Wahlberg has also come out and said he always checks guns himself before a scene. He was a true inner-city Boston piece of shit though growing up, was definitely around lots of crime/drugs/guns. 

[DixonHur 10859]

56 minutes ago, ButtFumble said:

 

this MIGHT be the case on some sets.....BUT

https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/business/story/2021-10-22/alec-baldwin-rust-camera-crew-walked-off-set

Hours before actor Alec Baldwin fatally shot a cinematographer on the New Mexico set of “Rust” with a prop gun, a half-dozen camera crew workers walked off the set to protest working conditions.

The camera operators and their assistants were frustrated by the conditions surrounding the low-budget film, including complaints about long hours, long commutes and waiting for their paychecks, according to three people familiar with the matter who were not authorized to comment.

Safety protocols standard in the industry, including gun inspections, were not strictly followed on the “Rust” set near Santa Fe, the sources said. They said at least one of the camera operators complained last weekend to a production manager about gun safety on the set.

Three crew members who were present at the Bonanza Creek Ranch set on Saturday said they were particularly concerned about two accidental prop gun discharges.

Baldwin’s stunt double accidentally fired two rounds Saturday after being told that the gun was “cold” — lingo for a weapon that doesn’t have any ammunition, including blanks — two crew members who witnessed the episode told the Los Angeles Times.

 

“There should have been an investigation into what happened,” a crew member said. “There were no safety meetings. There was no assurance that it wouldn’t happen again. All they wanted to do was rush, rush, rush.”

 

As the camera crew — members of the International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees — spent about an hour assembling their gear at the Bonanza Creek Ranch, several nonunion crew members showed up to replace them, two of the knowledgeable people said.

One of the producers ordered the union members to leave the set and threatened to call security to remove them if they didn’t leave voluntarily.

“Corners were being cut — and they brought in nonunion people so they could continue shooting,” the knowledgeable person said.

The shooting occurred about six hours after the union camera crew left.

 

 

so there was not a union crew or union armor on this set and that was the CHOICE of the producer and production company which is alec baldwin and in fact there were prior issues that were ignored

even if one wants to continue to argue (wrongly) that he was producer "in name only" he was still the most powerful person on that set and if he gave a shit he had the ability to shut things down no matter what if there were major safety issues on set (and we can see there was) and he chose not to do so when he 100% had the ability

in addition he chose to "practice" with a weapon and point it at people when that was not necessary because the people he was pointing that weapon at were not going to be in the positions on set they were in when they got shot.....they would have been just off set in an area to view the monitors and look at the overall camera angles......but alec himself made a choice to "practice" with them in the line of fire and shot them

 

Where did you hear the armorer wasn't in the union?  I find that very hard to believe.

Also, why would the director and/or the DP be in video village during a rehearsal?  They would have been right behind the camera setting up the shot...which shockingly is exactly where they were.  

It's not like he was running around the set waving the gun at people.  He was doing a live rehearsal of the scene.

[Murfdogg21 4398]

What the fuck was he doing pointing the gun at the cinematographer even if he thought it was empty or had blanks? To be an asshole and try to scare the shit out of her assuming it was blanks? If he was just “practicing”, he didn’t have to point it at someone an pull the trigger. Dude is a retard who killed someone and should go to jail. 

[shadow_operative 15931]

8 minutes ago, Murfdogg21 said:

What the fuck was he doing pointing the gun at the cinematographer even if he thought it was empty or had blanks? To be an asshole and try to scare the shit out of her assuming it was blanks? If he was just “practicing”, he didn’t have to point it at someone an pull the trigger. Dude is a retard who killed someone and should go to jail. 

[ButtFumble 5091]

30 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

Where did you hear the armorer wasn't in the union?  I find that very hard to believe.

Also, why would the director and/or the DP be in video village during a rehearsal?  They would have been right behind the camera setting up the shot...which shockingly is exactly where they were.  

It's not like he was running around the set waving the gun at people.  He was doing a live rehearsal of the scene.

 

1. your claim was that the union rules may have prevented him from even being able to check the gun

I think we can see from George Clooney and Marky Whalberg (and I believe Tom Cruise and others) that union rules do not prevent that

we can also see from the union guidelines above there were a lot of things that the union says should be done that were not done and some they say that should not be done that were.....like alec pointing a gun at people

2. this was not a union set no matter what and the article makes that clear when they stated the union camera crew was kicked off the set and threatened with the police.....there is no way other members of other unions that are working "union" would have stood for that if it was a union set

it was a low cost low budget set period

3. they were not doing a rehearsal they were simply lining up the cameras which is why they were not in the video village.....alec alone took it upon himself to draw the gun not only once, but twice and the second time to point it in the direction of people and pull the trigger

there is no reason they needed to be right there even IF it was a rehearsal they could have set the cameras, stepped out of the line of fire, had alec draw the weapon (and pull the trigger if needed) and then review the footage and adjust the cameras as needed.....and repeat that over and over

but of course doing it that way takes longer, takes more effort, and ultimately cost more money.....but of course not doing that way meant that in this case someone died and another person was seriously wounded

there was no reason at all that he needed to pull the gun much less have his finger anywhere near the trigger or hammer while people were in the line of fire and he and he alone is responsible for that.....especially considering that he is the most powerful person on the set even if his producer credit is just for play play.......because he is still the lone actor that makes the movie relevant to some at all and thus he has the ability to get his way period and that should include saying "wait I am not going to rehearse with a gun while people are in the line of fire period" 

4. it is clear this set was extremely sloppy and careless and that starts at the top (which is alec) and if you want to argue that the producer credit is just play play then it is still clear as day to anyone with a brain and anyone that has been on a movie set or read what was happening on this set that it was sloppy and dangerous and alec should have the knowledge to see that all around him including the incidents with his stunt double

and as the most experienced actor with the biggest name and 100% of the weight on set (no matter his producer title) if he gave a shit he would have stopped down and said he was not going to do anything with a weapon as long as others were in the line of fire.....but he did not....and that has to fall on him

there were no union goons, other producers, other actors, money men, or anyone else that were going to say shit to alec if he said "this is fucking stupid not a chance in hell I am pointing a gun at others have them set the cameras and step back and we will do it like that until the cameras are where they want them then we will film the scene".....much less if he had said earlier on "this set is fucked and a safety disaster I am not doing shit until this gets cleaned up and one properly"

he has a lot of shit to say all the time about a lot of things including guns to the rest of us.....he MAKE A CHOICE to not say shit in this instance on that set and about a lot of sloppy shit on that set and he made a choice to pull that gun and point it in the direction of others and no one on that set was forcing him to do shit he did not want to period

[C-Man 26698]

4 hours ago, Deej said:

 

 

Minus this part...

 

@shadow_operative handled this one pretty well already.

 

2 hours ago, ButtFumble said:

 

this MIGHT be the case on some sets.....BUT

https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/business/story/2021-10-22/alec-baldwin-rust-camera-crew-walked-off-set

Hours before actor Alec Baldwin fatally shot a cinematographer on the New Mexico set of “Rust” with a prop gun, a half-dozen camera crew workers walked off the set to protest working conditions.

The camera operators and their assistants were frustrated by the conditions surrounding the low-budget film, including complaints about long hours, long commutes and waiting for their paychecks, according to three people familiar with the matter who were not authorized to comment.

Safety protocols standard in the industry, including gun inspections, were not strictly followed on the “Rust” set near Santa Fe, the sources said. They said at least one of the camera operators complained last weekend to a production manager about gun safety on the set.

Three crew members who were present at the Bonanza Creek Ranch set on Saturday said they were particularly concerned about two accidental prop gun discharges.

Baldwin’s stunt double accidentally fired two rounds Saturday after being told that the gun was “cold” — lingo for a weapon that doesn’t have any ammunition, including blanks — two crew members who witnessed the episode told the Los Angeles Times.

 

“There should have been an investigation into what happened,” a crew member said. “There were no safety meetings. There was no assurance that it wouldn’t happen again. All they wanted to do was rush, rush, rush.”

 

As the camera crew — members of the International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees — spent about an hour assembling their gear at the Bonanza Creek Ranch, several nonunion crew members showed up to replace them, two of the knowledgeable people said.

One of the producers ordered the union members to leave the set and threatened to call security to remove them if they didn’t leave voluntarily.

“Corners were being cut — and they brought in nonunion people so they could continue shooting,” the knowledgeable person said.

The shooting occurred about six hours after the union camera crew left.

 

 

so there was not a union crew or union armor on this set and that was the CHOICE of the producer and production company which is alec baldwin and in fact there were prior issues that were ignored

even if one wants to continue to argue (wrongly) that he was producer "in name only" he was still the most powerful person on that set and if he gave a shit he had the ability to shut things down no matter what if there were major safety issues on set (and we can see there was) and he chose not to do so when he 100% had the ability

in addition he chose to "practice" with a weapon and point it at people when that was not necessary because the people he was pointing that weapon at were not going to be in the positions on set they were in when they got shot.....they would have been just off set in an area to view the monitors and look at the overall camera angles......but alec himself made a choice to "practice" with them in the line of fire and shot them

 

All of which sounds like a civil suit, which has already been handled.

 

1 hour ago, Murfdogg21 said:

What the fuck was he doing pointing the gun at the cinematographer even if he thought it was empty or had blanks? To be an asshole and try to scare the shit out of her assuming it was blanks? If he was just “practicing”, he didn’t have to point it at someone an pull the trigger. Dude is a retard who killed someone and should go to jail. 

This isn't because you don't like Alec's politics is it?

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4962]

3 hours ago, Helobious said:

Mark Wahlberg has also come out and said he always checks guns himself before a scene. He was a true inner-city Boston piece of shit though growing up, was definitely around lots of crime/drugs/guns. 

Mark Wahlberg is also a prohibited person and can't actually be in possession of a proper gun if I recall correctly. He has to have fake guns that have pretend recoil and stuff like that to shoot his scenes.

[Texzilla58 4687]

There are two questions: how did live ammo get on set? Supposedly there was an impromptu shooting range that crew shot at after hours. Bad controls there.

Second is completely on Baldwin. Regardless if thinking the gun was cold, he was fucking around. He knows proper gun procedure on set. These rules have been in place since about 1906. Blanks can kill. The gun cannot accidentally fire. He admits he pulled back the hammer and slowly released it back. Just a slight strike can cause the cartridge to fire. I’ve read he was supposed to just be wearing a gun, not playing with it. His stupidity killed this woman.

[Deej 76197]

5 hours ago, C-Man said:

@shadow_operative handled this one pretty well already

Sorry, humber one on my ignore list.

Edited January 20, 2023 by Deej

[Murfdogg21 4398]

6 hours ago, C-Man said:

@shadow_operative handled this one pretty well already.

 

All of which sounds like a civil suit, which has already been handled.

 

This isn't because you don't like Alec's politics is it?

No but I really hated this movie. I assumed Derka is a huge 30Rock fan and decided to die on the Alec Baldwin hill.

[WBT 20253]

Why would codified union rules or standard on-set practices trump the actual law in regards to holding the person pulling the trigger responsible as far as negligence goes?

[Parliament 14010]

Oh great.  A 20 page Surly law dog circle jerk.  Upshot is it keeps you out of the real world doing actual harm.

[RomaVicta 29574]

Rapidly becoming a CR repeat fest.

I'll only point out that Marky Mark isn't an authority on this subject. Insisting Baldwin had responsibilities that he did not doesn't alter the truth of the matter. Decrying his "recklessness" also ignores the facts of what he was told and what he could reasonably believe. 

I'm willing to let a jury decide. Others seem anxious to convict out of ingnorance.

Hello, America.

[Nivek 16684]

7 hours ago, Texzilla58 said:

There are two questions: how did live ammo get on set? Supposedly there was an impromptu shooting range that crew shot at after hours. Bad controls there.

Second is completely on Baldwin. Regardless if thinking the gun was cold, he was fucking around. He knows proper gun procedure on set. These rules have been in place since about 1906. Blanks can kill. The gun cannot accidentally fire. He admits he pulled back the hammer and slowly released it back. Just a slight strike can cause the cartridge to fire. I’ve read he was supposed to just be wearing a gun, not playing with it. His stupidity killed this woman.

I believe the first part was addressed earlier in the thread.   The video clip shows that he was just rehearsing a scene to come when the weapon discharged.  After learning about all of the Rem700 issues, including accidental killings of people in the car, across the street, in the other room of the house, I tend to be somewhat open-minded about these things.  If Baldwin was more comfortable around firearms then he could have checked it out himself.   But once you start when do you stop?  What about cannons? How would one check to see if their musket is properly loaded?   Should Emilio Estevez have checked out the Gatlin Gun in Young Guns?  Is it an actor's responsibility or should he or she defer to the experts? 

He wasn't waving it around and play-firing at people.  He was rehearsing a scene where he draws the gun, he wasn't rehearsing a scene where he was wearing it.  Had the gun been properly maintained, then this story would never have happened.   Seems to me the failures were entirely with the armorer and the other guy who declared it "cold."   

 

[Wally Pryor 5208]

Fuck Baldwin.

[Pam Cummings 9422]

How is this not the fault of whoever brought a live round on to the set? 

[Gene Parmesan 3953]

Just now, Pam Cummings said:

How is this not the fault of whoever brought a live round on to the set? 

It is.  The armorer is also being charged.  The assistant director who declared it a cold gun has already plead guilty.  Baldwin pulled the trigger, so I don't think you can leave him out of it, but I doubt they get the conviction unless he was ordering everyone to skip all safety protocols.

[Pam Cummings 9422]

3 minutes ago, Gene Parmesan said:

It is.  The armorer is also being charged.  The assistant director who declared it a cold gun has already plead guilty.  Baldwin pulled the trigger, so I don't think you can leave him out of it, but I doubt they get the conviction unless he was ordering everyone to skip all safety protocols.

Right on. It is interesting to charge Baldwin, but he definitely is not the only negligent person in this case.

[henrygandorf 28824]

3 hours ago, Murfdogg21 said:

No but I really hated this movie. I assumed Derka is a huge 30Rock fan and decided to die on the Alec Baldwin hill.

derka finally started 30 rock but was pretty late to the party. and despite my best efforts, he hasn’t watched malice yet, which is a great movie. 

go around hating sorkin movies and derka isn’t the one you’ll be hearing from.

 

['stache 21564]

So he wasn’t pointing it at an actor as part of a scene so he was messing around with the cinematographer having nothing to do with filming a scene? That’s the only way it makes sense that he’s liable even if he trusted the armorer because it’s at least negligent even with what was thought to be a prop gun with blanks. If I recall correctly, no actor was charged when Brandon Lee was accidentally killed by a prop gun on set but it was part of a scene where the actor was to point a gun at Lee and shoot a blank. I wonder if the armorer in that case was criminally charged.

[henrygandorf 28824]

44 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

I'll only point out that Marky Mark isn't an authority on this subject. Insisting Baldwin had responsibilities that he did not doesn't alter the truth of the matter.

wahlberg or cruise or keanu saying they’ll only use a set gun once they’ve checked it for safety doesn’t mean that’s protocol, especially for a novice gun user or an actor lower on the totem pole. 

twitter is flooded with mid-level actors you’ve heard of coming to the defense of baldwin’s actions and repeating what many have already said - it’s not on him to check once he’s been handed a “safe” gun. 

[WBT 20253]

12 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

wahlberg or cruise or keanu saying they’ll only use a set gun once they’ve checked it for safety doesn’t mean that’s protocol, especially for a novice gun user or an actor lower on the totem pole. 

twitter is flooded with mid-level actors you’ve heard of coming to the defense of baldwin’s actions and repeating what many have already said - it’s not on him to check once he’s been handed a “safe” gun. 

Yeah but that's my question.  Lots of job sites does stuff in unsafe ways.  Is "that's the way it's always been done" an adequate legal defense?

[Helobious 9420]

28 minutes ago, 'stache said:

So he wasn’t pointing it at an actor as part of a scene so he was messing around with the cinematographer having nothing to do with filming a scene? That’s the only way it makes sense that he’s liable even if he trusted the armorer because it’s at least negligent even with what was thought to be a prop gun with blanks. If I recall correctly, no actor was charged when Brandon Lee was accidentally killed by a prop gun on set but it was part of a scene where the actor was to point a gun at Lee and shoot a blank. I wonder if the armorer in that case was criminally charged.

Scene called for an audience POV of Baldwin basically firing at the camera. Cinematographer was thus right behind the camera when Baldwin fired.

[Gene Parmesan 3953]

11 minutes ago, WBT said:

Yeah but that's my question.  Lots of job sites does stuff in unsafe ways.  Is "that's the way it's always been done" an adequate legal defense?

Depends.  Not every workplace death has a criminal component when safety protocols are followed.  This isn't the first death on a film set nor the first death on the job.  There is precedent to look at.  

[Red Five 40357]

2 minutes ago, Helobious said:

Scene called for an audience POV of Baldwin basically firing at the camera. Cinematographer was thus right behind the camera when Baldwin fired.

Thought he was just practicing his draw. 

[Captainant 26914]

10 minutes ago, Red Five said:

Thought he was just practicing his draw. 

The reporting was that he was practicing his draw while they were rehearsing a shot for the movie. The shot required him drawing and pointing the gun at the camera, where despite not filming, the cinematographer was still there to see what it looked like in-camera. 

It's not as cut-and-dry as the people who are mad at AB for his impersonations on SNL would have you believe

['stache 21564]

Yeah I’m not seeing criminal charges unless there’s more to the facts or the DA is mad at him for SNL.

[henrygandorf 28824]

14 minutes ago, Captainant said:

The reporting was that he was practicing his draw while they were rehearsing a shot for the movie. The shot required him drawing and pointing the gun at the camera, where despite not filming, the cinematographer was still there to see what it looked like in-camera. 

a shortened indie schedule would've likely involved overlapping tasks.  if baldwin is rehearsing on set (hitting his marks, etc), whether planned or on his own, it's a waste not to line up the shot, set blocking, and sort out how you want it to go when it counts.  time is money, and it would be smart for the director/dp to use it to their advantage.

any talk of baldwin "fucking around" with the gun and doing shit he wasn't supposed to is purely conjecture but i admit i haven't read every article about this.  seems like if he was just goofing off, we would've heard all about it by now.

46 minutes ago, WBT said:

Yeah but that's my question.  Lots of job sites does stuff in unsafe ways.  Is "that's the way it's always been done" an adequate legal defense?

no, and that's not the legal defense here either. 

baldwin was handed a prop by people whose job it is to make sure it's safe and the description of it being a "cold" gun is accurate.  as far as the armorer, that is most of her job (whereas an ad has other responsibilities).  it's not on baldwin to check it and it's not on other actors to check it, even if some big stars with gun experience do check it.  nobody is going to tell tom cruise what to do on a tom cruise movie.

that said, i refuse to go 15 rounds on this shit.  again.

[Augustus 3061]

11 hours ago, C-Man said:

 

 

This isn't because you don't like Alec's politics is it?

 

Respectfully, please stop projecting this onto posters, onto the conversation.

Nobody's talking about Baldwin's politics except those who keep presuming it as some ulterior motive for holding him accountable.  

[Captainant 26914]

1 minute ago, Augustus said:

Nobody's talking about Baldwin's politics except those who keep presuming it as some ulterior motive for holding him accountable.  

Well it's mainly because those who are most energetically clamoring for "holding him accountable" are also grossly misrepresenting what happened, and refusing to frame or discuss it as anything less than AB just waving the gun around and pulling the trigger. 

May not be talking about his politics, but folks sure aren't talking about the facts of the situation either

[txhorns 2405]

Could it be that he wasn’t charged because of firing the gun but instead because of being the cause of the supposedly poor work conditions on set which led to the chaos and thus the incident?

[0xdeadbeef 1614]

[RomaVicta 29574]

39 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

seems like if he was just goofing off, we would've heard all about it by now.

He must have been since so many people who don't like him or know nothing of movies sets keep assuming he was. 

Edit to add two things:

Compliments to CaptainAnt on his work here.

and

 

Edited January 20, 2023 by RomaVicta

[henrygandorf 28824]

1 minute ago, RomaVicta said:

He must have been since so many people who don't like him or know nothing of movies sets keep assuming he was. 

they're going to put the entire system on trial!

['stache 21564]

29 minutes ago, txhorns said:

Could it be that he wasn’t charged because of firing the gun but instead because of being the cause of the supposedly poor work conditions on set which led to the chaos and thus the incident?

That makes some sense, but wouldn't there be other producers as defendants? And it's tough to tie the work conditions directly to an armorer being bad at the part of her job that is by far the most important.

[Deej 76197]

1 hour ago, Red Five said:

Thought he was just practicing his draw.