Alec Baldwin Shoots and Kills Cinematographer, Wounds Director

[ButtFumble 5091]

2 hours ago, Helobious said:

Scene called for an audience POV of Baldwin basically firing at the camera. Cinematographer was thus right behind the camera when Baldwin fired.

but as stated in the article above there would not have been people behind the camera in the line of fire for the actual filming of the scene

thus there was no reason for them to be behind the camera and in the line of fire to rehearse the scene they could have placed the cameras in position, moved from the line of fire, rehearsed, and then looked at the footage to see if the camera angles are how they want them and adjust from there until they have things right and film the scene

there was no reason for them to be in the line of fire even during a rehearsal of the scene

the FBI investigated the gun and said it could not have fired without the trigger being pulled

https://www.npr.org/2022/08/15/1117577604/alec-baldwin-fbi-report-movie-shooting

there was no reason that gun needed to be pointed at the people that were shot no matter what was happening on set at the time and it does not matter what some actors that most people have never heard of say on twitter because they do not have the ability to shut down a set as the producer of a film or as the single most powerful person on set that 100% has the ability to set all rules and procedures on the set and that has decades of experience on sets...and he had that power no matter his position as the producer and he was a producer in more than just name only so he had that power X2

those saying that he did nothing wrong are trying to paint him as some actor that was desperate for work, desperate for money, had no pull on set or in the industry, and thus would be in fear of pissing people off or losing their job if they made important workplace safety demands......alec baldwin on this set especially was none of those things and in fact was the complete opposite he had the ability to make all the decisions period

 

 

[Augustus 3061]

2 hours ago, Captainant said:

Well it's mainly because those who are most energetically clamoring for "holding him accountable" are also grossly misrepresenting what happened, and refusing to frame or discuss it as anything less than AB just waving the gun around and pulling the trigger. 

May not be talking about his politics, but folks sure aren't talking about the facts of the situation either

 

Perfectly fair, and we can point that out without inserting presumed political motives into the discussion, because doing so is to actually inject your own political stance on the matter by attacking someone else's, which is always the real objective.  This thread has been refreshingly non-CR and I've appreciated that.

[GoPokes83 2236]

Heard on the local news at noon that he was talking on his phone during the gun safety training. Don’t know what that means about anything. Just another log on the fire.

[Surly Bevo 24573]

28 minutes ago, GoPokes83 said:

Heard on the local news at noon that he was talking on his phone during the gun safety training. Don’t know what that means about anything. Just another log on the fire.

Leaving a sternly worded voicemail message.

[Nivek 16684]

Quote

 

 

[henrygandorf 28824]

7 hours ago, ButtFumble said:

there was no reason that gun needed to be pointed at the people that were shot no matter what was happening on set at the time and it does not matter what some actors that most people have never heard of say on twitter because they do not have the ability to shut down a set as the producer of a film or as the single most powerful person on set that 100% has the ability to set all rules and procedures on the set and that has decades of experience on sets...and he had that power no matter his position as the producer and he was a producer in more than just name only so he had that power X2

first, what type of actor do you think knows and closely follows safety protocol - the working actors most people have never heard of, or a global superstar like tom cruise?

second of all, holy fucking run-on sentence, batman.

[Anastasis 23214]

I think that you should be practicing basic gun safety procedures whether you are a cop talking in front of a bunch of kids, or an anti-gun actor playing make believe with guns on set.

I am not pointing any firearm at another person and pulling the trigger unless I am ready to deal with the consequences of that. If I am an actor that has to point a gun at another person and pull the trigger, I am personally overseeing the loading of that weapon and what cartridges are being loaded. But that's just me. I understand that the hollywood SOPs are very well quite different. 

 

[Texzilla58 4687]

but as stated in the article above there would not have been people behind the camera in the line of fire for the actual filming of the scene
thus there was no reason for them to be behind the camera and in the line of fire to rehearse the scene they could have placed the cameras in position, moved from the line of fire, rehearsed, and then looked at the footage to see if the camera angles are how they want them and adjust from there until they have things right and film the scene
there was no reason for them to be in the line of fire even during a rehearsal of the scene
the FBI investigated the gun and said it could not have fired without the trigger being pulled
https://www.npr.org/2022/08/15/1117577604/alec-baldwin-fbi-report-movie-shooting
there was no reason that gun needed to be pointed at the people that were shot no matter what was happening on set at the time and it does not matter what some actors that most people have never heard of say on twitter because they do not have the ability to shut down a set as the producer of a film or as the single most powerful person on set that 100% has the ability to set all rules and procedures on the set and that has decades of experience on sets...and he had that power no matter his position as the producer and he was a producer in more than just name only so he had that power X2
those saying that he did nothing wrong are trying to paint him as some actor that was desperate for work, desperate for money, had no pull on set or in the industry, and thus would be in fear of pissing people off or losing their job if they made important workplace safety demands......alec baldwin on this set especially was none of those things and in fact was the complete opposite he had the ability to make all the decisions period
 
 

Exactly. Baldwin stated in interviews that he slowly pulled back the hammer and then lowered it back, a stupidly dangerous act. The gun could not misfire. I believe he left out the part where the hammer slipped off his thumb while he lowered it back. It’s the only way it could have fired unless he pulled the trigger. His action wasn’t part of the scene. Had he not done that, regardless of cold or hot gun, and a mother goes home to her kids. I don’t think he intended to kill this woman, but he did thru his fucking around with the gun.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4962]

A single action revolver like the model he had won't allow you to lower the hammer back down unless you pull the trigger. The trigger has to be held down the whole way down or it will catch on the half cock notch and then jam up. There's no way it happened unless he was pulling the trigger. 

Now, given the information we know, I don't know that I would find him at fault for not checking the gun. The apparent standard procedure with guns is ridiculous from the perspective of someone who has been around guns my entire life, but if it is standard procedure I think that is more of an indictment on Hollywood than Alec Baldwin. In my opinion, if you are going to be handling firearms on a movie set, you should be required to be familiar with them and safe handling of them just like with any other job that involves potentially dangerous tasks, but that isn't how it is. The practicing your draw with people in the line of fire is really the big issue. They should be a huge no no according to normal firearms safety. On the one hand, it is pretty much required at times due to the job description. But on the other hand, Hollywood doesn't follow normal safe handling procedures and it is accepted, so maybe he shouldn't be culpable there as well.

I think what this will come down to is how much power did he have about hiring decisions with regards to the armorer. Their were apparently a lot of people who weren't happy with the way she was handling things, so much so that they almost walked off the job. If he had the power to make decisions regarding her employment and ignored those concerns and still did what he did without making sure that everything was safe, then he may have some culpability. 

[RPM 26096]

I heard Adam Corolla on the Ticket and he gave a great breakdown of the situation. Baldwin isn't responsible as an actor, but he has a huge liability problem as producer. Choosing to go with the cheap armorer versus one with more experience is going to bite him in the ass.

[DoobieWah 1379]

 

People lose their jobs in Hollywood based on their political opinions.

His personal negligence killed somebody.

 

 

I swear,...this place sometimes....

[txhorns 2405]

Just because they are the standard Hollywood procedures doesn’t make them right.  It also shouldn’t absolve him of any criminal charges.  If you are given a gun and told to fire that gun in the direction of someone else then you are personally responsible for the consequences.  If you choose to not personally inspect the gun and what’s loaded into the gun yourself before pulling the trigger that is your fault.

Then you take in to account that Baldwin was the most powerful person on that set.  There had already been misfires.  Baldwin was a producer and not just in name only.  The production was supposedly cutting corners with safety protocols.  Baldwin could have shut down production and fixed all safety issues had he wanted to.

Even if you ignore the rumors that Baldwin was goofing around with the gun or was just practicing his draw he is still 100% at fault for the death of another human being.  There’s no argument to be made there.  He’s guilty in two ways, both by pulling the trigger and by establishing an environment in which safety protocols were not strictly adhered to.  I don’t think he meant to kill her but he still did.  He needs to face the consequences for his actions.

[Red Five 40356]

8 hours ago, RPM said:

I heard Adam Corolla on the Ticket and he gave a great breakdown of the situation. Baldwin isn't responsible as an actor, but he has a huge liability problem as producer. Choosing to go with the cheap armorer versus one with more experience is going to bite him in the ass.

I keep seeing people say that Baldwin personally hired the armorer. Is this true?

[RPM 26096]

15 minutes ago, Red Five said:

I keep seeing people say that Baldwin personally hired the armorer. Is this true?

I have no idea, but he's still exposed (civil) even if he never made any call on it. Safety is not where you want to make cuts on a low budget.

Edited January 21, 2023 by RPM

[ButtFumble 5091]

17 minutes ago, Red Five said:

I keep seeing people say that Baldwin personally hired the armorer. Is this true?

the wiki has some facts with supporting articles

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rust_shooting_incident

looking at them

1. Writer and director Joel Souza conceived the story for Rust with actor and producer Alec Baldwin. The Western film was produced on a small budget of $6–7 million and was Baldwin's passion project.

the WSJ article linked calls it "his passion project" and it is clear he was "the producer"......at some point and time if you want the credit them perhaps you need to think about what responsibility comes with that

2. Responsible for overseeing all weapons on set was the production's property key assistant and armorer, Hannah Gutierrez-Reed, daughter of long-time industry armorer Thell Reed.^[6] Rust was Gutierrez-Reed's second film serving as lead armorer. On her first film, The Old Way, several crew members complained about her handling of firearms, including an incident in which she discharged a weapon without warning and caused lead actor Nicolas Cage to walk off set.^[7]

David Halls was the assistant director. In the aftermath of the incident, former colleagues reported that Halls faced complaints in 2019 about his behavior on two episodes of Into the Dark, in which he disregarded safety protocols by ignoring blocked exits and a fire lane.^[8][9] In the same year, Halls had been fired from working on the film Freedom's Path after a firearm discharged unexpectedly on set, wounding a crew member.^[10][11]

On the set of the independent film One Way, a crew member warned producers about Halls's disregard for safety measures and said, "That man is a liability. He's going to fucking kill someone someday, and you're going to be responsible." However, the film's digital imaging technician disputes this claim, saying he knew Halls to be conscientious about safety.^[12] The Hollywood Reporter reported a number of complaints raised during the production of 2019's The Tiger Rising, which also featured Rust executive producers Ryan Donnell Smith, Allen Cheney, Emily Hunter Salveson, and Ryan Winterstern.^[13]

 

so it is clear the AD on the set of Rust had a history of carelessness.....yes it says one person thought the AD was conscientious of safety, but quite a number of others seem to indicate he was a dumb ass at best......and that the armorer had issues before.....to the point that Nick Cage walked of set

from the last sentence above we can see that 4 executive producers on Rust had a poor history from a film in 2019

so on the set of Rust that was written by one person and that is said to be a "passion project" of alec baldwin we can see there was an AD with s reputation for shitty safety in several films, an armorer that had a bad rep from her first film to the point Nick Cage walked off set, and that 4 executive producers had a bad rep from a film in 2019

3. further in that wiki it goes over the details of what happened on set (which seem very safety shitty and a lot of fucking up by a lot pf people)

 

I doubt we will ever really know exactly who was "in charge" pf what, but again I think it is very clear that from a production standpoint alec baldwin was heavily involved and it was much more than just a credit to get him to be in the film.....in addition I think we can look well beyond "who hired the armorer" and ask "who hired all these other fuck ups and known careless shit heads" and "how do you get so many people known for being shitty at safety in one place" and "fuck that is a bunch of people at the top that do half assed things" and I think that starts at the very top and I feel that very top is alec baldwin....then we can look to the well documented issues on this set and crew walking off for a number of reasons including safety and specifically the careless handling of firearms......and we can see that in the past actors with authority and power (including ones that have worked with some of this collection of safety fuck ups in the past) have said "enough of this bullshit" and walked off set

yet alec did not and you have to ask why.....and I feel it was because he was involved heavily as a producer and a financier and he wanted to get this done cheap and that cost someone their life

4. lastly the wiki link above says he was really not rehearsing instead he was more just talking to others about how he was going to do something while the people that got shot were fixing an issue with shadows on the set so the gun never should have been drawn and pointed at them and alec did that

 

I think more than the question of "who hired the armorer" it should who hired the 4 EPs and the AD that were all involved in films in the past with shitty safety records and when you are talking about the hiring of 4 EPs.......well who gets higher than them....and in this case I think it is the dame guy that pulled the trigger while pointing a gun at people for no reason and that is alec baldwin

[shadow_operative 15931]

god, the fucking gun nuts in this thread who just will not shut. the. fuck. up. with all of the repeated shit about, "there's never any excuse, i was taught to respect firearms from a young age", blah blah blah blah blah. this is how i picture all of you:

you just keep on ignoring the fact that you don't have a clue wtf you're talking about, keep ignoring everything that everyone else is telling you, keep ignoring the industry standards which have led to people getting shot on set about 0.000000000000001% of the time that guns are being used in film, and you just go in ahead continuing ti lecture everyone else because after all, you know best. god damn it you people are such a beating. 

Edited January 21, 2023 by shadow_operative

[Nicole44 21960]

Since Halls has cooperated and he took a plea just wondering if that is what Prosecution ultimately wants with Baldwin. 
 

At any rate, this article from Slate yesterday pretty much addresses the questions a lot of us have had. They interviewed an entertainment lawyer.  I can’t see Baldwin being convicted. We all know he didn’t help himself by going on tv etc…because he didn’t and came across poorly. But that shouldn’t matter as far as charging him. The live rounds and how they got onto the set are an issue. I do think the armorer will likely be convicted of a lesser charge perhaps. 
 

Anyway this article from Slate is more a question/answer type deal and SIAP but I felt like it addressed all or most of the big questions I had or people seem to have. Jmo.

https://slate.com/culture/2023/01/alec-baldwin-manslaughter-rust-halyna-hutchins.html

Edited January 21, 2023 by Nicole44

[UT_OB1 2197]

8 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

god, the fucking gun nuts in this thread who just will not shut. the. fuck. up…

 

…you just go in ahead continuing ti lecture everyone else because after all, you know best. god damn it you people are such a beating. 

[txhorns 2405]

13 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

god, the fucking gun nuts in this thread who just will not shut. the. fuck. up. with all of the repeated shit about, "there's never any excuse, i was taught to respect firearms from a young age", blah blah blah blah blah. this is how i picture all of you:

you just keep on ignoring the fact that you don't have a clue wtf you're talking about, keep ignoring everything that everyone else is telling you, keep ignoring the industry standards which have led to people getting shot on set about 0.000000000000001% of the time that guns are being used in film, and you just go in ahead continuing ti lecture everyone else because after all, you know best. god damn it you people are such a beating. 

Why are you so hell bent on defending Baldwin over this?  He fucked up and someone died because of it.  I’m not sure that he should go to jail because of that but he damn sure should have to sit there and let a jury decide his fate after reviewing all pertinent information.

[txhorns 2405]

Also, industry standards do not negate the law.  

[Pam Cummings 9422]

9 hours ago, RPM said:

I heard Adam Corolla on the Ticket and he gave a great breakdown of the situation. Baldwin isn't responsible as an actor, but he has a huge liability problem as producer. Choosing to go with the cheap armorer versus one with more experience is going to bite him in the ass.

Yeah, but every movie i know of has multiple producers. Whatever that means. Why would Baldwin be the only producer at fault?

[RPM 26096]

1 minute ago, Pam Cummings said:

Why would Baldwin be the only producer at fault?

He's not. This is just the DA Dog and Pony show. When the civil suit comes you'll see the production company named.

[Captainant 26913]

24 minutes ago, txhorns said:

Why are you so hell bent on defending Baldwin over this?  He fucked up and someone died because of it.  I’m not sure that he should go to jail because of that but he damn sure should have to sit there and let a jury decide his fate after reviewing all pertinent information.

It's not that he's defending AB, it's that you're materially misrepresenting the law and the facts of the matter at hand. Read the slate article that Nicole posted and take a chill pill lol

[shadow_operative 15931]

39 minutes ago, txhorns said:

Also, industry standards do not negate the law.  

we aren't talking about the law, we're talking about a bunch of right wing retards in here *insisting* that it was alec baldwin's responsibility to make sure that the gun wasn't loaded with real bullets. those people are wrong. irrefutably wrong. despite this, they won't stop from each making the same exact wrong post over and over and over. alec baldwin followed the industry standards which have a 99.9999999999% success rate, but a bunch of freedom loving yokels on this thread won't STFU about how that's no excuse. it's exhausting.

[hobbes2702 12533]

49 minutes ago, txhorns said:

Also, industry standards do not negate the law.  

[Surly Bevo 24573]

37 minutes ago, RPM said:

He's not. This is just the DA Dog and Pony show. When the civil suit comes you'll see the production company named.

I believe but could be wrong that they have already settled up things on the civil side.

[ButtFumble 5091]

16 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

we aren't talking about the law, we're talking about a bunch of right wing retards in here *insisting* that it was alec baldwin's responsibility to make sure that the gun wasn't loaded with real bullets. those people are wrong. irrefutably wrong. despite this, they won't stop from each making the same exact wrong post over and over and over. alec baldwin followed the industry standards which have a 99.9999999999% success rate, but a bunch of freedom loving yokels on this thread won't STFU about how that's no excuse. it's exhausting.

alec baldwin did not follow industry standards

https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-59035488

• Blanks can kill. Treat all firearms as though they are loaded
• Refrain from pointing a firearm at yourself or anyone else
• Never place your finger on the trigger unless you're ready to shoot
• Anyone involved in using a firearm must be thoroughly briefed at an on-set safety meeting
• Only a qualified person should load a firearm
• Protective shields, eye and hearing protection should be used by anyone in close proximity or the line of fire
• Any actor who is required to stand near the line of fire should be allowed to witness the loading of the firearms

how big of a fucking idiot do you have to be to defend someone that did not follow the standards set out by the industry they work in for the safe handling of guns on set......all while you are calling out people that have a higher standard than that of simply "don't point guns at shit you do not intend to shoot".....while defending a fucking fool that did not follow those industry standards on a set filled with other known unsafe fucking idiots that he hired and he was the one that pointed a gun at someone and killed them

only a total shit for brains would try and vilify people with a standard of "do not point guns at things you do not intend to shoot" and try and call them "gun nuts" while defending someone that is highly critical of guns that set up a movie filled with unsafe assholes and then handled a gun in a careless way and someone was killed.....by a gun HE WAS HOLDING

worse yet he is such a total cock he is still trying to go with "the evil gun just went off"......yea it just "went off" because that is what evil guns do they just run around and go off killing people......it does not take a criminal fuck head or a total unsafe asshole to first pick up that gun and point it at someone before "it just decides on it's own to go off".......except it is about a 99.9999999999% chance that a gun will never "just go off" (and it will never just go off while sitting there it will at leash have to be dropped or messed with in that 99.9999999999%) and a 99.9999999999% chance that even if a gun "just goes off" it will not kill someone unless some careless, clueless fuck is aiming it towards someone

 

[DoobieWah 1379]

LEAVE ALEC ALONE!!!

[Pam Cummings 9422]

11 minutes ago, DoobieWah said:

LEAVE ALEC ALONE!!!

Or just maybe don't set dumb and shitty legal precedents because you're buttmad at the actor for whatever reason?

[ButtFumble 5091]

1 hour ago, Pam Cummings said:

Yeah, but every movie i know of has multiple producers. Whatever that means. Why would Baldwin be the only producer at fault?

because he was the only producer that happened to handle a gun in an unsafe way and contrary to industry standards for gun handling (and general safe gun handling) and pointed it at two people needlessly and shot them killing one of them

and an assistant AD that has a long history of being on sets with careless gun use including one that resulted in someone else being wounded was charged (and took a plea deal) because he was the one that grabbed up the gun off the cart, did not properly check it, and handed it to alec

but of course less defend alec that had ultimate control of this unsafe fuck fest of wild west gun buffoonery and ultimately pointed the gun at two people and shot them and killed one and ask why he is being charged at all

when of course charges like manslaughter are specifically charges for people that do stupid shit that they should know better than to do that results in others dying even if they did not intend to hurt someone much less kill them

[Pam Cummings 9422]

3 minutes ago, ButtFumble said:

because he was the only producer that happened to handle a gun in an unsafe way and contrary to industry standards for gun handling (and general safe gun handling) and pointed it at two people needlessly and shot them killing one of them

and an assistant AD that has a long history of being on sets with careless gun use including one that resulted in someone else being wounded was charged (and took a plea deal) because he was the one that grabbed up the gun off the cart, did not properly check it, and handed it to alec

but of course less defend alec that had ultimate control of this unsafe fuck fest of wild west gun buffoonery and ultimately pointed the gun at two people and shot them and killed one and ask why he is being charged at all

when of course charges like manslaughter are specifically charges for people that do stupid shit that they should know better than to do that results in others dying even if they did not intend to hurt someone much less kill them

This is stupid.

 

From the article that i can guarantee you didn't read:

 

Quote

I mean, imagine the world we’re in if they were requiring actors to now check equipment! What’s next? What if an actor is driving a car in a scene and the brakes go out and he kills somebody? Are we now going to charge him for criminal negligence? What if he’s using a sword or some other explosive on set that is defective and kills somebody, we’re now going to look at the actor? I mean, this is a slippery slope.

 

Edited January 21, 2023 by Pam Cummings

[ButtFumble 5091]

8 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

Or just maybe don't set dumb and shitty legal precedents because you're buttmad at the actor for whatever reason?

or maybe don't handle a gun like a careless asshole and against the standards of the industry that you are a leader in and then others will not get shot and killed

and maybe when you are a major person in that industry and the top person on set in both terms of actual title and in terms of ability to call a halt to anything that happens because of your star power you take a small amount of initiative (as other major stars have done) and put an end to fuckery that results in the death of someone instead of taking the initiative to keep the show rolling, have unqualified people around you, and fuck around with guns that results in two shot and one dead

Edited January 21, 2023 by ButtFumble

[Pam Cummings 9422]

2 minutes ago, ButtFumble said:

or maybe don't handle a gun like a careless asshole and against the standards of the industry that you are a leader in and then others will not get shot and killed

and maybe when you are a major person in that industry and the top person on set in both terms of actual title and in terms of ability to call a halt to anything that happens because of your star power you take a small amount of initiative (as other major stars have done) and put an end to fuckery that results in the death of someone instead of taking the initiative to keep the show rolling, have unqualified people around you, and fuck around with guns that results in two shot and one dead

Jesus christ man. Get ahold of yourself.

[ButtFumble 5091]

6 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

This is stupid.

 

From the article that i can guarantee you didn't read:

 

 

your response is stupid

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twilight_Zone_accident

Landis, Folsey, Wingo, production manager Allingham, and explosives specialist Paul Stewart were tried and acquitted on charges of manslaughter in a nine-month trial in 1986 and 1987.^[9

 

in the above case there were acquittals, but there is a clear precedent for people that are in charge of movie sets to be charged with manslaughter if it is thought that careless actions lead to a death 

in this case it is very unique and much worse than most because alec is both the top producer, had the highest amount of "pull" of anyone on the set and he is the one that was carelessly handling a gun that shot two and killed one

and yea one really needs to "get a hold of themselves" because they expect someone to have a clue or to take any amount of responsibility at all when a production he had full control of (even if in name only as a producer which it was much more than that) and much more so power in terms of the ability to shut it all down  ends up carelessly handling a gun and shoots two and kills one.....all the more so when the simple answer is at least follow industry standards (he violated at least 3 of them if not more) much less follow simple safe gun handling standards of "don't point guns at shit you do not want to shoot"

and because yea the idea of don't be an asshole and realize that guns are not toys and they shoot and kill things so don't point them at people makes one a "gun nut"

[closetohumping 17299]

😬

[Captainant 26913]

53 minutes ago, ButtFumble said:

alec baldwin did not follow industry standards

https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-59035488

• Blanks can kill. Treat all firearms as though they are loaded
• Refrain from pointing a firearm at yourself or anyone else
• Never place your finger on the trigger unless you're ready to shoot
• Anyone involved in using a firearm must be thoroughly briefed at an on-set safety meeting
• Only a qualified person should load a firearm
• Protective shields, eye and hearing protection should be used by anyone in close proximity or the line of fire
• Any actor who is required to stand near the line of fire should be allowed to witness the loading of the firearms

how big of a fucking idiot do you have to be to defend someone that did not follow the standards set out by the industry they work in for the safe handling of guns on set......all while you are calling out people that have a higher standard than that of simply "don't point guns at shit you do not intend to shoot".....while defending a fucking fool that did not follow those industry standards on a set filled with other known unsafe fucking idiots that he hired and he was the one that pointed a gun at someone and killed them

only a total shit for brains would try and vilify people with a standard of "do not point guns at things you do not intend to shoot" and try and call them "gun nuts" while defending someone that is highly critical of guns that set up a movie filled with unsafe assholes and then handled a gun in a careless way and someone was killed.....by a gun HE WAS HOLDING

worse yet he is such a total cock he is still trying to go with "the evil gun just went off"......yea it just "went off" because that is what evil guns do they just run around and go off killing people......it does not take a criminal fuck head or a total unsafe asshole to first pick up that gun and point it at someone before "it just decides on it's own to go off".......except it is about a 99.9999999999% chance that a gun will never "just go off" (and it will never just go off while sitting there it will at leash have to be dropped or messed with in that 99.9999999999%) and a 99.9999999999% chance that even if a gun "just goes off" it will not kill someone unless some careless, clueless fuck is aiming it towards someone

 

 

38 minutes ago, ButtFumble said:

because he was the only producer that happened to handle a gun in an unsafe way and contrary to industry standards for gun handling (and general safe gun handling) and pointed it at two people needlessly and shot them killing one of them

and an assistant AD that has a long history of being on sets with careless gun use including one that resulted in someone else being wounded was charged (and took a plea deal) because he was the one that grabbed up the gun off the cart, did not properly check it, and handed it to alec

but of course less defend alec that had ultimate control of this unsafe fuck fest of wild west gun buffoonery and ultimately pointed the gun at two people and shot them and killed one and ask why he is being charged at all

when of course charges like manslaughter are specifically charges for people that do stupid shit that they should know better than to do that results in others dying even if they did not intend to hurt someone much less kill them

 

33 minutes ago, ButtFumble said:

or maybe don't handle a gun like a careless asshole and against the standards of the industry that you are a leader in and then others will not get shot and killed

and maybe when you are a major person in that industry and the top person on set in both terms of actual title and in terms of ability to call a halt to anything that happens because of your star power you take a small amount of initiative (as other major stars have done) and put an end to fuckery that results in the death of someone instead of taking the initiative to keep the show rolling, have unqualified people around you, and fuck around with guns that results in two shot and one dead

 

18 minutes ago, ButtFumble said:

your response is stupid

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twilight_Zone_accident

Landis, Folsey, Wingo, production manager Allingham, and explosives specialist Paul Stewart were tried and acquitted on charges of manslaughter in a nine-month trial in 1986 and 1987.^[9

 

in the above case there were acquittals, but there is a clear precedent for people that are in charge of movie sets to be charged with manslaughter if it is thought that careless actions lead to a death 

in this case it is very unique and much worse than most because alec is both the top producer, had the highest amount of "pull" of anyone on the set and he is the one that was carelessly handling a gun that shot two and killed one

and yea one really needs to "get a hold of themselves" because they expect someone to have a clue or to take any amount of responsibility at all when a production he had full control of (even if in name only as a producer which it was much more than that) and much more so power in terms of the ability to shut it all down  ends up carelessly handling a gun and shoots two and kills one.....all the more so when the simple answer is at least follow industry standards (he violated at least 3 of them if not more) much less follow simple safe gun handling standards of "don't point guns at shit you do not want to shoot"

and because yea the idea of don't be an asshole and realize that guns are not toys and they shoot and kill things so don't point them at people makes one a "gun nut"

Wow I had no idea you cared so much about this lmao. You're reaching lobo levels of unhinged long posting my dude. The horns aren't actively losing, there's no reason to be drinking this hard this early

[Pam Cummings 9422]

I mean every aspect about what dude posted has already been hashed out. The part about how he's only given a producer credit for being a big name, the part about how it's against union rules for the actor to do the job of the armorer, the part about how the live round would have been in the weapon and been fired off eventually whether it was practicing for the scene or actual filming of the scene. The part about how there is still an ongoing investigation as to how the live round even got there, which to me is the most important thing.

 

But go on, keep on with the run on sentences, guy who has never worked on a movie set.

[USC_TMB 405]

There is absolutely NO justification for pointing a fireable firearm in the direction of bystanders, period. Having your fingers anywhere near the hammer/trigger is beyond stupid. I don’t care how “experienced” you are or if you’ve been around guns all your life, muzzle me and there are going to be problems. If they wanted to check camera angles for the shot, then use a blue gun.

Hollywood procedures be damned, if someone hands you a firearm which you fail to clear/check and you cause it to fire, you are responsible. I’ve had a training instructor bounce students for failing to make sure the gun was clear or flagging others. And that was after he handed you the gun AFTER he cleared it. So-called experts are usually the worst about getting lazy with basic safety, and crap like this happens.

Bottom line he is responsible, along with the armorer, and honestly, the cinematographer who was shot was at fault as well for allowing a firearm to be pointed at her without making sure it was clear by physical inspection not “it’s cold”

[Dutchrudder 11056]

Has anyone answered the question of, "how did live ammunition make it on the set, who brought it and who allowed it to be there?" 

There should be a reasonable expectation in the film industry that live ammunition should never be on or around a movie set. There is no reason to have it, it's not necessary for any filming purposes, and greatly increases the risk of accidents. 

[Pam Cummings 9422]

31 minutes ago, USC_TMB said:

There is absolutely NO justification for pointing a fireable firearm in the direction of bystanders, period. Having your fingers anywhere near the hammer/trigger is beyond stupid. I don’t care how “experienced” you are or if you’ve been around guns all your life, muzzle me and there are going to be problems. If they wanted to check camera angles for the shot, then use a blue gun.

Hollywood procedures be damned, if someone hands you a firearm which you fail to clear/check and you cause it to fire, you are responsible. I’ve had a training instructor bounce students for failing to make sure the gun was clear or flagging others. And that was after he handed you the gun AFTER he cleared it. So-called experts are usually the worst about getting lazy with basic safety, and crap like this happens.

Bottom line he is responsible, along with the armorer, and honestly, the cinematographer who was shot was at fault as well for allowing a firearm to be pointed at her without making sure it was clear by physical inspection not “it’s cold”

You say this as if we all haven't collectively watched thousands of films where actors are pointing firearms at each other, and pulling the trigger in some instances.

[Brisketexan 103602]

You say this as if we all haven't collectively watched thousands of films where actors are pointing firearms at each other, and pulling the trigger in some instances.

I’ll agree with you that surly posters have collectively watched thousands of films. But almost all of those films are about a guy showing up to fix the cable or some such.

[Dutchrudder 11056]

5 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I’ll agree with you that surly posters have collectively watched thousands of films. But almost all of those films are about a guy showing up to fix the cable or some such.

Many of those films end with the other actor getting blasted in the face, yet nobody is harmed. It's because they take proper precautions and check the piece multiple times before it goes off.

[Nicole44 21960]

17 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I’ll agree with you that surly posters have collectively watched thousands of films. But almost all of those films are about a guy showing up to fix the cable or some such.

Did the cable get fixed? It’s not a well known movie but I loved Delirious with John Candy. The Raymond Burr character in it was always leaving mid scene to go meet the cable guy at his home.

I get the discussion on AB is heated.

The issue of the live rounds (investigation as far as we know is still ongoing as to how they even got on the set) and AB’s role as a producer—how much authority/control/responsibility did he have and what was expected of him (as it pertains to set and gun safety) are going to be huge factors.  If he was a just a producer in name credit only that’s far different. The SAG contract or rules protect AB solely as an actor. It all boils down to what was expected or should have been expected of him as a producer. I think the armorer is probably proper fucked though. The plea bargain agreement with Halls—his testimony and such will be key to the prosecution’s case. What protocols and chain of custody was in place for the guns on the set etc…was AB responsible for as a producer? If he had any control or authority over the armorer then I can see him being in trouble for that. 

Edited January 21, 2023 by Nicole44

[MrBig 5182]

He told the cops during the interview that his wife was from Spain. His credibility is in the toilet as he is the only one who believes this.

[Rimbo 25229]

6 hours ago, Nicole44 said:

Did the cable get fixed?

don't be fatuous, jeffrey

[Nicole44 21960]

2 minutes ago, Rimbo said:

don't be fatuous, jeffrey

 

[Nicole44 21960]

5 hours ago, MrBig said:

He told the cops during the interview that his wife was from Spain. His credibility is in the toilet as he is the only one who believes this.

Apparently Prince Harry or the Spare or whatever he calls himself believes that Meghan didn’t know much about him or his family before they met. She had no idea about Diana’s famous Taj Mahal picture. Not a clue. According to his book…which he helped write. Some people are clueless and dumb and see what they want to see. Some people know the truth but disregard it. 

[Texzilla58 4687]

we aren't talking about the law, we're talking about a bunch of right wing retards in here *insisting* that it was alec baldwin's responsibility to make sure that the gun wasn't loaded with real bullets. those people are wrong. irrefutably wrong. despite this, they won't stop from each making the same exact wrong post over and over and over. alec baldwin followed the industry standards which have a 99.9999999999% success rate, but a bunch of freedom loving yokels on this thread won't STFU about how that's no excuse. it's exhausting.

He pulled the trigger when he shouldn’t have whether it had a blank, live round, or was unloaded. It wasn’t part of the scene. Give it up with your incessant blathering. You’re so desperate to prove your AB knobpolishing is truth.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4962]

11 hours ago, Pam Cummings said:

This is stupid.

 

From the article that i can guarantee you didn't read:

 

 

I don't have an axe to grind against Alec Baldwin. He's a pretty good comedic actor and he played the best Jack Ryan. I could really care less about his political views or any of that, and I generally think this incident is more of an indictment against how the industry handles gun safety than an indictment against him barring some information coming out about it that says he was aware of safety concerns on the set and was flippant about them yadda yadda yadda...

But, while admittedly I didn't read the article, the quote you posted reads like satire. The whole situation and people's reactions to it feels like some sort of satirical bizarro world. We have posts from people who grew up around guns saying that they needed to control their guns better, all the while people on the opposite end of the spectrum are insisting that they didn't need to control their guns better and suggesting they did is a slippery slope. @henrygandorf couldn't write a better comedic strip. Except this time it isn't comedy and somebody died.

[shadow_operative 15931]

22 minutes ago, Texzilla58 said:

He pulled the trigger when he shouldn’t have whether it had a blank, live round, or was unloaded. It wasn’t part of the scene. Give it up with your incessant blathering. You’re so desperate to prove your AB knobpolishing is truth.

alec baldwin himself is hardly relevant to anything i've said, im barely familiar with his work and am not some big fan of his. in fact my posts in this thread have little to do with AB, and have in fact been aimed at the people who keep coming i. here repeating the same useless crap as if it hasn't already been illogically repeated ad nauseam. i think your own hard on for alec baldwin is getting in the way of you even comprehending what is that i'm saying.