Alec Baldwin Shoots and Kills Cinematographer, Wounds Director

[UncleSonny 6573]

https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/business/story/2021-10-22/alec-baldwin-rust-camera-crew-walked-off-set

Quote

There were two misfires on the prop gun on Saturday and one the previous week, the person said, adding “there was a serious lack of safety meetings on this set.”

 

[otisdog 365]

Soooo....long time entertainment employee here - multiple f*ckups here. Reading the above article that mentioned it was a 'tier one' movie. That means it was a union show, but had a 6 million dollar maximum production budget, including post (production). That's not shit....a television show I worked on had a 34 mil episodic budget. Tier 1 shows pay about 1/2 standard union scale, if that, and have super small crews so as to make that budget possible.

So the people who work on these shows are folks with zero, or very little experience on the set.  They're learning on set...and there's mistakes made. In the real world, an Armorer (hired solely to handle firearms by the prop master) is completely trusted by the actor he hands the gun to, period.  There is no blame possible towards the actor here.

Edited October 22, 2021 by otisdog

[Anastasis 23481]

1 minute ago, otisdog said:

In the real world, an Armorer (hired solely to handle firearms by the prop master) is completely trusted by the actor he hands the gun to, period.  There is no blame possible towards the actor here.

Thanks for sharing insights from that industry.

 

This is where some of us just break down.  It seems that the rules that guide the use of weapons in that industry is completely contradictory to the way that most of us were taught, and teach other, to handle firearms.  Like 100% backwards. 

[henrygandorf 29194]

1 hour ago, SizzleChest said:

Who is accountable then?

the underwriters.

getting insurance on a film is an excruciating process, especially when you're dealing with actors/crew of all ages and medical backgrounds and stunts that may or may not involve firearms and explosives.  this is why insurance like this is crazy expensive and completely necessary.  because bad shit happens all the time.

go read some stories about actors being uninsurable and the shit they've had to do just to be able to act in films.  this was more of an indie situation, but they absolutely had insurance or union members wouldn't be involved, let alone someone like baldwin.  shit, even if he produced a student film with his nieces and nephews starring in it, his production company would have enough insurance to cover any nightmare scenario.

[BabaYaga 15304]

1 hour ago, Scary Stranger said:

They do if they can make sure everybody knows they did.

Ding, ding, ring-a-ding-ding

 

[henrygandorf 29194]

2 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

This is where some of us just break down.  It seems that the rules that guide the use of weapons in that industry is completely contradictory to the way that most of us were taught, and teach other, to handle firearms.  Like 100% backwards. 

yep, hollywood is the definitely one place where we see gun-related irresponsibility.

[Anastasis 23481]

1 minute ago, henrygandorf said:

yep, hollywood is the definitely one place where we see gun-related irresponsibility.

Seems like it may be one place where breaking the basic rules of firearms handling has been institutionalized. 

[henrygandorf 29194]

1 minute ago, Anastasis said:

Seems like it may be one place where breaking the basic rules of firearms handling has been institutionalized. 

people like to make believe.

[Anastasis 23481]

3 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

people like to make believe.

Maybe they can come up with some technology that might help them create make believe without shooting each other. 

[henrygandorf 29194]

1 minute ago, Anastasis said:

Maybe they can come up with some technology that might help them create make believe without shooting each other. 

i agree.  changing rules when it comes to guns is a real no-brainer.

[956 Worldwide 34746]

Frankie you're a friend of mine
Got me off a bender after long legged Brenda died
I thought we might be on a roll this time Frankie
I could have swore the box said Hollywood blanks 

[Vito Andolini 9127]

2 hours ago, Lobo said:

To Gandalph's point about could be a difference between principal photography/rehearsal and just general time between takes...Baldwin's clothing in that photo suggests they were not actively filming.  Maybe rehearsal, could just be blocking, could be something altogether different.  

The photo where he’s hunched over? That was later at the sheriffs department when he was being questioned. He would have changed out of his wardrobe.

[Guest Lobo]

Funny guys becoming villains.  Malfunctioning guns that weren't supposed to hurt people.  Sabotage in the armory.  Old West hosts and guests.

Season 4 of Westworld looks fucked.

[Grade of D as in David 13253]

3 hours ago, slorch said:

Uh oh...that's some plot thickening shit right there.

Now we're blaming Chile?

Have to blame Chilli now that Left Eye is dead

 

 

[956 Worldwide 34746]

This is obviously a colossal screw up, but in perspective. Add up all those fake bullets expended in movies and TV each year, and we’re coming up with max ten or so people seriously killed or wounded from a prop gun in a real,accident. And at least one of those held the gun to his head and pulled the trigger as a joke. That’s actually a pretty amazing safety record and speaks to how professional and safe these guys are. 

Its not a fair comparison because they are using live rounds, but I’d wager the proportion of unsafe gun practice is way higher among the general gun owning public. 

[shadow_operative 15932]

the conditions on set seem pretty terrible:

 

 

[MrBig 5424]

Alec was a huge asshole when the news broke that his Spanish wife Hilaria was actually an American chick from Boston named Hillary.

He doubled down and acted like everyone else was in the wrong for calling her out on her bullshit, even though he was the one helping spread the story about her fake Spanish heritage in the press.

I have no doubt he will blame someone else for this bullshit even though he was the one who pulled the trigger and was heavily involved in the production process. 

[UncleSonny 6573]

32 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Frankie you're a friend of mine
Got me off a bender after long legged Brenda died
I thought we might be on a roll this time Frankie
I could have swore the box said Hollywood blanks 

Ha, I have been thinking about that song all day 

[956 Worldwide 34746]

42 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

i agree.  changing rules when it comes to guns is a real no-brainer.

Unlikely. You can add sound and flash with CGI but you’re not going to be able to realistically mimic the way recoil looks like on film. Imagine an actor shaking his fake M-16 on film like some 10 year old playing army men. And it’s not just the movement of the weapon, it’s the facial expressions and small movements of the actors that you don’t even notice you’re noticing. But your brain does. 
 
Acting is super hard, only a few people in the world can do that kind of pretending up close and on camera. The less you’re pretending, the better it is. The reason we can stop and believe that Val and Al are not pretending in this scene (which in the director cut is even better in terms of reloading, etc) is because they aren’t pretending at all. 
 

 

[Beau Vine 54354]

10 hours ago, Cody2422 said:

Can we stop calling them prop guns?  If they have a firing pin to ignite a blank and the barrel is clear, they’re guns, not props.  Jackasses making movies with no knowledge about guns other than trying to get them banned think they’re playing with toys.  Sad situation though.  Thoughts and prayers….

[Beau Vine 54354]

9 hours ago, Capt. Squints said:

"Fucking amateurs" ~ Vic Morrow

 

9 hours ago, Underdog said:

Nothing to lose your head over, fellas- Vic Morrow. 

[Bill Brasky 1450]

so Alec Baldwin managed to defeat pussy?

 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

[Deej 76885]

I recommend not watching the footage from the Vic Morrow death. When one of the crew members grabs his body only to realize Vic is missing everything from the shoulders up will disturb you for life. 

Edited October 22, 2021 by Deej

[Gil Bang 25990]

The showrunner for the TV show "The Rookies" has just banned all real guns from the show.  They will use airsoft pistols and work it out with CGI. 

I expect many others will follow. 

[Ignatius 4017]

1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

Maybe they can come up with some technology that might help them create make believe without shooting each other. 

[Lawrence Olivier to Dustin Hoffman]
Have you ever tried acting?

[\Lawrence Olivier to Dustin Hoffman

[Deej 76885]

2 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

They will use airsoft pistols

[ultimaton 2982]

2 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

So, is the read we're getting as follows:

1 - the gun was loaded with a live round.  Which is an insane thing to see on an active set.

2 -- the propmaster was a 24 year old, likely a dumbass.

3 -- the crew had been complaining about unsafe conditions, including firearms.

4 -- Baldwin actually pointed the gun -- thinking it was just a prop -- at the victims, and pulled the trigger.

 

Those first three items may make criminal liability for Baldwin, who, as the producer, had full knowledge of items 2 and 3, an actual possibility.  Maybe criminally negligent homicide or the equivalent.

And yes, regardless of criminal and civil liability, he also has to live with the fact that he just took an innocent person's life.  Even if it was completely and totally not his fault and a total accident, it would STILL be a nightmare for the rest of his days.

TLDR; this story may be some seriously fucked up shit.

I think reports of that ended up being fake news https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/alec-baldwin-shooting-incident/

[Beau Vine 54354]

6 hours ago, 'stache said:

Some prop guy is super fucked, as is the production company, etc., etc. Baldwin himself will be fine legally if it really was a prop error. No criminal intent, not even negligence, if someone else is responsible for ensuring the prop gun is safe to use for shooting. Of course the cloak room Daily Texan folks will have a field day because of his spot on and super mean portrayal of their most favorite person evar.

fify

[Beau Vine 54354]

5 hours ago, You don't know me said:

Except for the fact that he's going to live with this the rest of his life.  I can't imagine how I would handle that.

[UT_OB1 2224]

11 hours ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

Bored stupid teenagers in the country.  Same concept as kids shooting off firework mortar rounds from their chest and the concussion stops their heart.  Just dumb.  

I didn’t know this was a thing. 

[Foosters 17867]

My suggestion would be to paint the actors hands green and then have them do finger-guns at people. You can then digitally turn their finger into a barrel later. Problem solved.

[freyguy 4284]

4 hours ago, MAUFRAIS said:

Immediately after making this statement, Alec realized that it was true.

strong, very strong...

[ultimaton 2982]

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/21/us/alec-baldwin-shooting-rust-movie.html

 

Quote

An assistant director grabbed one of three prop guns that the film’s armorer had set up outside on a gray cart, handed it to Mr. Baldwin, and, according to an affidavit signed by Detective Joel Cano of the Santa Fe County sheriff’s office, yelled “Cold Gun!” — which was supposed to indicate that the gun did not have any live rounds in it.

[UTGrad98 2281]

They need to poll people after all the facts come out and see how many still believe baldwin was upset and made that quote about killing them or was ranting about trump. I say 40 percent of our population will believe one of the lies after this is all said and done

[Pato del Muerto 52556]

1 hour ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Unlikely. You can add sound and flash with CGI but you’re not going to be able to realistically mimic the way recoil looks like on film. Imagine an actor shaking his fake M-16 on film like some 10 year old playing army men. And it’s not just the movement of the weapon, it’s the facial expressions and small movements of the actors that you don’t even notice you’re noticing. But your brain does. 
 
Acting is super hard, only a few people in the world can do that kind of pretending up close and on camera. The less you’re pretending, the better it is. The reason we can stop and believe that Val and Al are not pretending in this scene (which in the director cut is even better in terms of reloading, etc) is because they aren’t pretending at all. 
 

 

Just watched this entire scene. Several minutes long, and I’m not sure that there’s a single frame wherein a gun is visibly pointed at a person.  
 

pointing a gun with blanks at a person and firing it is not ok, because of the consequences of a mistake. 

[Hook1997 5397]

3 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Just watched this entire scene. Several minutes long, and I’m not sure that there’s a single frame wherein a gun is visibly pointed at a person.  
 

pointing a gun with blanks at a person and firing it is not ok, because of the consequences of a mistake. 

I mean that’s the whole point of blanks and really it’s safe safe unless really close to each other or….   I just don’t get how live rounds ever make it on set.  Airsoft of painted guns will look fake as hell when firing in a movie.   

[shadow_operative 15932]

12 minutes ago, UTGrad98 said:

They need to poll people after all the facts come out and see how many still believe baldwin was upset and made that quote about killing them or was ranting about trump. I say 40 percent of our population will believe one of the lies after this is all said and done

 

 

[Pato del Muerto 52556]

9 minutes ago, Hook1997 said:

I mean that’s the whole point of blanks and really it’s safe safe unless really close to each other or….   I just don’t get how live rounds ever make it on set.  Airsoft of painted guns will look fake as hell when firing in a movie.   

You can use real guns, just don’t point them at people. Is it that difficult to set the shots up like that?  

[Nivek 16963]

Alec was a huge asshole when the news broke that his Spanish wife Hilaria was actually an American chick from Boston named Hillary.
He doubled down and acted like everyone else was in the wrong for calling her out on her bullshit, even though he was the one helping spread the story about her fake Spanish heritage in the press.
I have no doubt he will blame someone else for this bullshit even though he was the one who pulled the trigger and was heavily involved in the production process. 

Y’all are obsessed with him.

[Trey3216 15352]

24 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Just watched this entire scene. Several minutes long, and I’m not sure that there’s a single frame wherein a gun is visibly pointed at a person.  
 

pointing a gun with blanks at a person and firing it is not ok, because of the consequences of a mistake. 

Pointing a gun at someone is not ok, because of the consequences 

 

you only point a gun at someone if you know and accept the consequences, which could include getting yourself killed.   

Edited October 23, 2021 by Trey3216

[Cajun 11722]

4 hours ago, Gil Bang said:

Selfish pricks don't donate millions of dollars to charity. 

You serious Clark?  There are rich, selfish pricks all over donating and rubbing elbows with all the “right” people at the galas.

ATX is chocked full of ‘em brah.

[Nivek 16963]

Just watched this entire scene. Several minutes long, and I’m not sure that there’s a single frame wherein a gun is visibly pointed at a person.  
 
pointing a gun with blanks at a person and firing it is not ok, because of the consequences of a mistake. 

Houston rodeo, popping balloons with guns, loaded with blanks, in front of a crowd, while riding a horse in circles.

[Pato del Muerto 52556]

13 minutes ago, Nivek said:

Houston rodeo, popping balloons with guns, loaded with blanks, in front of a crowd, while riding a horse in circles.

In Cody there is a “gunfight” every night of summer outside the Buffalo bill hotel. Couple of years ago some live rounds worked their way in, and put holes in rafts and brick before a spectator took one in the leg.  

[Hate 20130]

/no CR

[Pato del Muerto 52556]

I don’t think you know what no cr means

[aggie08 21514]

Any chance you get to dunk on a dude who tragically took a life and now has to live with that for the rest of his, you have to take it.

[Hate 20130]

I will admit that it could be perceived as such, but that was not my intent. I thought it was apropos and no worse than many of the other “no CR” post in the thread.

[atomheartbevo 89775]

Expanding on the earlier story

Quote

Alec Baldwin was handed a loaded weapon by an assistant director who indicated it was safe to use in the moments before the actor fatally shot a cinematographer, court records released Friday show.

The assistant director did not know the prop gun was loaded with live rounds, according to a search warrant filed in a Santa Fe court.

Quote

Cinematographer Halyna Hutchins was shot in the chest on the set of a Western starring Baldwin. Director Joel Souza was wounded. The records said he was standing behind her.

...

He was performing at the time of the shooting, the sheriff’s office said. It was unclear how many rounds were fired, and little was known about the weapon.

Armorer is fucked.  AD is kinda fucked.

[Pato del Muerto 52556]

Isn’t it more like evidence that guns are dangerous items, and that maybe some level of training and safety adherence is warranted?