Alec Baldwin Shoots and Kills Cinematographer, Wounds Director

[otisdog 365]

27 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Expanding on the earlier story

Armorer is fucked.  AD is kinda fucked.

Backwards....nobody touches a firearm but the armorer and the talent.

[atomheartbevo 89052]

3 minutes ago, otisdog said:

Backwards....nobody touches a firearm but the armorer and the talent.

Well, somewhere along the line the armorer was out of the picture, and the AD picked it up off of the cart, handed it to Baldwin and told him it was okay to use.

Which still begs the question of why it had live rounds.  Those should never have made it to the set at all.

[otisdog 365]

8 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

 Those should never have made it to the set at all.

Absolutely concur. But if the above story is to be believed, the AD picked the gun up off of the armorers' cart...the armorers' cart is sacrosanct.

Edited October 23, 2021 by otisdog

[Johnny Sack 8397]

Baldwin be like:

[atomheartbevo 89052]

If this is the case...yikes.

https://www.showbiz411.com/2021/10/22/weapons-handler-for-alec-baldwin-film-has-resume-for-ensuring-gun-safety-on-set-along-with-instructing-actors-on-how-to-use-their-guns

Quote

...LinkedIn page includes a resume note from this past spring and summer working at Yellowstone Film Ranch in Montana from March through June. She described her job there: “Loading firearms with appropriately sized blanks. Ensuring gun safety on set along with instructing actors on how to use their guns.”

....according to LinkedIn a student at Northern Arizona University from 2017 to 2020 in “creative media and film.”

It’s unclear if Gutierrez was union approved or licensed, or still a student. But she comes from a family of “armorers.” Her father is the famous armorer and movie gun consultant Thell Reed, who she said trained her in an affidavit.

Her dad has a helluva resume.

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0715715/

 

[956 Worldwide 34019]

5 hours ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Just watched this entire scene. Several minutes long, and I’m not sure that there’s a single frame wherein a gun is visibly pointed at a person.  
 

pointing a gun with blanks at a person and firing it is not ok, because of the consequences of a mistake. 

 Check again and ask who’s on the other side of the camera when Val kicks off the whole gunfight. 
 

 

[C-Man 26755]

6 hours ago, Hook1997 said:

I mean that’s the whole point of blanks and really it’s safe safe unless really close to each other or….   I just don’t get how live rounds ever make it on set.  Airsoft of painted guns will look fake as hell when firing in a movie.   

You sure? Cops mistake the fake shit for real guns all the time.

[Etexhorn13 3015]

A whole lot of sorry if already posted, but:

 

also, a friend of mine that writes in Hollywood had this to say: update: almost the whole union camera crew had walked because conditions were so unsafe. Heard the fatal shot was the FOURTH time the gun had accidentally misfired. Non-Union prop master was 19

 

baldwin was a producer. He may be furked. 

[NeverMarryAStripper 21765]

25 minutes ago, C-Man said:

You sure? Cops mistake the fake shit for real guns all the time.

Cops also mistake air for guns all the time

[RPM 26098]

Just do a reverse Spielberg. Shoot the scene with everyone holding a radio then change them to guns in post.

[Herpa Derpa 6089]

3 hours ago, Etexhorn13 said:

A whole lot of sorry if already posted, but:

 

also, a friend of mine that writes in Hollywood had this to say: update: almost the whole union camera crew had walked because conditions were so unsafe. Heard the fatal shot was the FOURTH time the gun had accidentally misfired. Non-Union prop master was 19

 

baldwin was a producer. He may be furked. 

See prior 307 posts for your errors.

 

[cabowabo 4390]

Female armorer. Pretty much explains everything.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

11 hours ago, Hate said:

I will admit that it could be perceived as such, but that was not my intent. I thought it was apropos and no worse than many of the other “no CR” post in the thread.

Yep not CR .  Anti gun eye-rony

that’s pretty funny in a gallows, surly way.

[immamac 41750]

Fucking Keanu reeves kills the director here. Stop being stupid.

[StruggleBus 3922]

20 hours ago, slorch said:

I take a weapon from people without checking the chamber all the time…

Yeah, Hindsight and all that shit, but seriously, who takes a weapon and doesn’t check it? The mndset that something is absolutely safe kinda bothers me.

On the flipside of that, maybe I wouldn’t last 3min as an actor because I didn’t trust the prop guy…

Do think anyone on the set is familiar with guns or how they should be handled?

[Cajun 11659]

11 hours ago, aggie08 said:

Any chance you get to dunk on a dude who tragically took a life and now has to live with that for the rest of his coupled with the fact that he'd gladly do the very same with verve and relish, you have to take it.

fify

Don't leave out the most important aspect.

 

[aggie08 20487]

15 minutes ago, Cajun said:

fify

Don't leave out the most important aspect.

 

I'll just assume that you and I have a very different definition of "tragic" (and probably "accidental") and leave it at that.

[Guest]

44 minutes ago, StruggleBus said:

Do think anyone on the set is familiar with guns or how they should be handled?

Assumptions are great, ain’t they?  Maybe they are, maybe they ain’t.  Is acting a profession that is exempt from common safety protocols?  It doesn’t seem like it would be, given all of the stunts they perform and different set# they perform on.

[Cajun 11659]

16 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

I'll just assume that you and I have a very different definition of "tragic" (and probably "accidental") and leave it at that.

Assume away.

I will go ahead and not assume, but know that you completely missed the point.

Because you did.

Edited October 23, 2021 by Cajun

[bad_teammate 13022]

14 minutes ago, slorch said:

Assumptions are great, ain’t they?  Maybe they are, maybe they ain’t.  Is acting a profession that is exempt from common safety protocols?  It doesn’t seem like it would be, given all of the stunts they perform and different set# they perform on.

What are the "common safety protocols" on a set and how familiar are you with them? (And how familiar are you going to pretend to be after some Googling and outrage-focused source-reading?)

In the decades and decades of shooting movies with guns with vanishingly few injuries/deaths, is it established practice that actors on a set behave the same way as we do at gun ranges and hunts? Do you ACTUALLY inspect every gun a buddy hands to you at a range or in a blind? Every time without fail?

The posturing here is pathetic and transparent.

Why would it ever cross an actor's mind that the gun they were handed might be anything other than loaded with blanks? Are they supposed to unload and reload every magazine after inspecting each round? If it helps, imagine it's a different actor you don't hate. Do you think Clint Eastwood double-checked every round in every gun he ever fired on set?

[Beau Vine 53735]

9 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

If this is the case...yikes.

https://www.showbiz411.com/2021/10/22/weapons-handler-for-alec-baldwin-film-has-resume-for-ensuring-gun-safety-on-set-along-with-instructing-actors-on-how-to-use-their-guns

 

She could make my gun go off.

[atomheartbevo 89052]

1 hour ago, StruggleBus said:

Do think anyone on the set is familiar with guns or how they should be handled?

This morning, I talked to somebody I did some work for several years ago, who has one of the more popular gun channels on YouTube, and who has worked on movie sets, and his assumption is that somebody had the gun out at a shooting range somewhere and didn't clear it when they brought it back.  He said that's the only reason he can think of for there to be a live round on a set like that.  

He said they would take actors to a firing range (or something equivalent) and have them get comfortable with the firearm(s) so that they look convincing and aren't bumbling around and wasting everybody's time when it comes time to film, but it's not usually right before filming, to the point where a live round left in a sidearm would not be discovered - the armorer he was working with always cleared everything before transporting it anywhere.

Given the remote locale, he was curious if they were taking the actors down the road and having them practice in a gully or something, but he said it was still shady as fuck that a live round would have not been discovered.

Also, somebody mentioned armorers have a lot of power because of insurance, and he said that was true - if there was some fuckery, they could had somebody they could talk to who could shut down production.  I'm guessing he was referring to the person representing the insurance/financing/whatever.

[Cajun 11659]

30 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

She could make my gun go off.

Yeah, I think I might have a line on why she got the gig to begin with.

[Hate 20061]

I wonder if he turned the gun sideways.

[Red Five 40455]

I'm just getting caught up on all this, so apologies if this has already been beaten to death. Buuuuut....

“Baldwin’s stunt double accidentally fired two rounds Saturday after being told that the gun was ‘cold’ — lingo for a weapon that doesn’t have any ammunition, including blanks,” one crew member told the Times. Another misfire occurred the previous week, the newspaper reported.

This was the THIRD time a prop gun actually contained real bullets? WTF. I'm not saying it was intentional but Jesus how was this not intentional?

[otisdog 365]

18 minutes ago, Red Five said:

 I'm not saying it was intentional but Jesus how was this not intentional?

Inexperience and failure to follow established industry protocol.

[Gil Bang 25689]

1 hour ago, Beau Vine said:

She could make my gun go off.

That's a fucking disgrace.  I would expect an armorer to be a firearms expert.  I would expect that each gun be field stripped and cleaned after ever use.  In short, I'm thinking that this is a good job for a gun nut, not some dumbshit young woman. 

[Red Five 40455]

"Here you go! Here's a prop gun! Not one live bullet in the chamber, I swear!"

"Thanks Bob! Hey, wait a minute... what's this?? A live bullet?? Dammit Bob!"

"Sorry, won't happen again."

(next day)

"Ok here's a prop gun! I triple checked this time! Zero live bullets in that gun I can promise you!"

"Your word is good enough for me Bob. Now lets go ahead and.... hey wait a minute. Dammit Bob that gun is loaded with live bullets! Again! Just like yesterday!".

"Sorry, won't happen again."

(next week)

"Now Bob. You know how your job is to check the guns, and to make sure something unthinkable never happens, like a gun on set containing live bullets?"

"Yeah."

"Well we have a very strict three strikes and your out loaded gun policy here on the set of Rust. I would hate to lose you Bob."

"Not to worry. You know you can trust me. Zero, and I mean ZERO, live bullets in that gun...."

 

(yes I know it was really a woman)

[Gil Bang 25689]

Well, it's hard to keep track of live rounds and post on instagram at the same time.  

And I won't be surprised if it turns out that she was doing just that.

[Pato del Muerto 52117]

So can you hire anyone to be your armorer?  Is there a certification or apprenticeship requirement?  Didn’t notice anything on that social media screenshot.  That gig with Costner’s company for Yellowstone seems awfully short lived, though. 

[Red Five 40455]

4 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

Well, it's hard to keep track of live rounds and post on instagram at the same time.  

And I won't be surprised if it turns out that she was doing just that.

Why would live rounds be in there in the first place? Were they heading to the range in between takes or something? 

[Gil Bang 25689]

My dad has an interesting theory: it’s a non-union shoot. Maybe a union thug snuck in some live rounds?

Keep in mind, he was in the Teamsters in the 60s

[Nivek 16691]

It seems like this could be easily solved through the use of zip ties, color coding ammo, keeping different ammo separate, and disabling firearms not in use. Training the actors in real gun safety would also ho along way.

Usually gun accidents come down to a series of fuck ups, not just a one off fuck up. Two live rounds for the stuntman demonstrated they had fundamental problems. They should have replaced the armorer or demoted her to a secondary support role and picked up some local ex-military guy or hired a firearms trainer cop.

[Gil Bang 25689]

I'm surprised that the armory thing isn't a contract deal with some independent contractor to furnish and maintain the guns.  
 

You're shooting a western?  No problem.  We'll bring our Western package, which is 6 shooters and lever actions.   A modern cop show?  OK, we have Glocks and ARs.  

We furnish, manage, and maintain the guns for X dollars. 

[Pato del Muerto 52117]

4 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

I'm surprised that the armory thing isn't a contract deal with some independent contractor to furnish and maintain the guns.  
 

You're shooting a western?  No problem.  We'll bring our Western package, which is 6 shooters and lever actions.   A modern cop show?  OK, we have Glocks and ARs.  

We furnish, manage, and maintain the guns for X dollars. 

They probably do, but there were budget limitations and she was very cheap, and when the EP asked her about her experience with guns she blew him and he just kind of forgot that he had asked. 

[CurlyDumps 4415]

12 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

If this is the case...yikes.

https://www.showbiz411.com/2021/10/22/weapons-handler-for-alec-baldwin-film-has-resume-for-ensuring-gun-safety-on-set-along-with-instructing-actors-on-how-to-use-their-guns

Her dad has a helluva resume.

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0715715/

 

Not a great start to her career, Bob!

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

Wouldn’t rule 1 be : no live rounds on set or anywhere near a firearm ?

 

[otisdog 365]

1 hour ago, Gil Bang said:

My dad has an interesting theory: it’s a non-union shoot. 

If the upthread mention of a 'Tier 1 show' was correct, it is / was a union show. Also the fact that Baldwin was involved pretty much conforms it. Not likely a SAG member would be on that set.

Edited October 23, 2021 by otisdog

[rage-a-holic 4256]

17 hours ago, Nivek said:

Y’all are obsessed with him.

What a load of shit. Pointing out hypocrisy here is not obsession. 

I like his work, but he basically gets a lifetime free pass from one side of the political spectrum, despite being a raging asshole and bigot. 

An actor on the opposite political spectrum would be crucified for that kind of behavior....like say Mel Gibson.

[atomheartbevo 89052]

1 hour ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Wouldn’t rule 1 be : no live rounds on set or anywhere near a firearm ?

Which is why the guy I know thinks somebody took it out to a range or somewhere off set and was working with the actors (or was just out shooting on their own), and brought it back without clearing it.  He also said it should have been the armorer handing it to Baldwin, and she should have checked one last time, even if just to make sure it was blanks only.

1 hour ago, Gil Bang said:

I'm surprised that the armory thing isn't a contract deal with some independent contractor to furnish and maintain the guns.  

You're shooting a western?  No problem.  We'll bring our Western package, which is 6 shooters and lever actions.   A modern cop show?  OK, we have Glocks and ARs.  

We furnish, manage, and maintain the guns for X dollars. 

Guy I mentioned, the outfit he's worked for does just that.  Their website is literally point-and-click - pick your era, location, and who the characters are (outlaws or soldiers or gamblers or whatever if it's a Western) and how many characters of each type are in each scene, etc. It's a package deal and only the armorers and their assistants and the actors handle the firearms, and their company is very upfront about how everything is handled (they have their own insurance to deal with).

They work with the production crew and have basic storyboards for the scenes involving firearms along with camera and crew locations mapped out (even though it's blanks, they are careful about when anybody will be near by).  He said they are secured (sounded like locked in their own cases) and everything checked by at least two people. When they setup a scene, an armorer will bring out only the exact firearm(s) needed, and the armorer is in complete control of the firearms until handed off to the actors, then when the scene is over, they are handed back and secured. 

He's only done half-a-dozen or so movies, and they were big-budget (hence the need for multiple experts/armorers and him being called in), but he couldn't fathom how a non-armorer type like an AD could just pickup a non-secured firearm off of a cart and declare the status and hand it off to the start, because that was a chain of bad decisions - non-secured firearm on a cart, and people were around who could just pick it up without being challenged by the armorer.  Sounded like they went really cheap.

He also said the directors/producers/crews they were around hated the armorers because they had a lot of power.  He wondered if the armorer was trying to be friendly with them since she didn't have many credentials.

Edited October 23, 2021 by atomheartbevo

[Blotto 23293]

3 hours ago, Cajun said:

Yeah, I think I might have a line on why she got the gig to begin with.

are we sure it wasnt the top button from her jeans that wrecked shop?

[Cajun 11659]

Even Mack Brown be like "Damn GIRL!!!".

[Nivek 16691]

1 hour ago, rage-a-holic said:

What a load of shit. Pointing out hypocrisy here is not obsession. 

I like his work, but he basically gets a lifetime free pass from one side of the political spectrum, despite being a raging asshole and bigot. 

An actor on the opposite political spectrum would be crucified for that kind of behavior....like say Mel Gibson.

Wrong again scarecrow.   This is a tragic incident where some young woman lost her life, a kid lost their mom, and another man was wounded for a preventable series of mistakes.   That is incident is used by some of you carrion to spread fake bullshit, and gleefully celebrate it.  But then again, someone must watch TMZ/Jerry Springer.

[Guest Lobo]

4 minutes ago, Blotto said:

are we sure it wasnt the top button from her jeans that wrecked shop?

It'll take you a few minutes like it did for me, but then again---I'm like super perceptive......can you spot the anachronism in this old west photograph?  

[Michael Knight 12725]

Maybe we wait for the facts to come out before everyone starts taking sides and jumping to conclusions

[Upgrayedd 5778]

3 minutes ago, Michael Knight said:

Maybe we wait for the facts to come out before everyone starts taking sides and jumping to conclusions

You must be new here

[williemackgarza 1826]

Dude fat shamed his daughter, pattern of dv, is paid to mock and make fun of other peoples fuck ups.
But now hes supposed to get a break from folks cause it was a tragic accident? But was it?
Fuck that, this is surly. Its what we do.
Karmas a bitch and he just ate that shit all up in her ass.
I feel sorry for these folks that got shot and killed by this piece of shit.
These libs hate evil guns but sure use the shit out of them in their movies to make tons of $, cashing in on americas love/obsession with guns.
Cant wait to see the SNL skit.
Like that would ever happen

[Deej 76219]

39 minutes ago, Michael Knight said:

Maybe we wait for the facts to come out before everyone starts taking sides and jumping to conclusions

[freyguy 4240]

41 minutes ago, williemackgarza said:

Dude fat shamed his daughter, pattern of dv, is paid to mock and make fun of other peoples fuck ups.
But now hes supposed to get a break from folks cause it was a tragic accident? But was it?
Fuck that, this is surly. Its what we do.
Karmas a bitch and he just ate that shit all up in her ass.
I feel sorry for these folks that got shot and killed by this piece of shit.
These libs hate evil guns but sure use the shit out of them in their movies to make tons of $, cashing in on americas love/obsession with guns.
Cant wait to see the SNL skit.
Like that would ever happen

I'm amazed you were able to get this all out as you rubbed one out while sticking your AR up your ass...impressive.

[Nivek 16691]

Dude fat shamed his daughter, pattern of dv, is paid to mock and make fun of other peoples fuck ups.
But now hes supposed to get a break from folks cause it was a tragic accident? But was it?
Fuck that, this is surly. Its what we do.
Karmas a bitch and he just ate that shit all up in her ass.
I feel sorry for these folks that got shot and killed by this piece of shit.
These libs hate evil guns but sure use the shit out of them in their movies to make tons of $, cashing in on americas love/obsession with guns.
Cant wait to see the SNL skit.
Like that would ever happen

Yeah, not obsessed with celebrity culture at all….