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shadow_operative

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SL Xpress

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1 hour ago, Brian Fantana said:

What I don't get is, we supposedly blocked him from transferring to one B1G school but were just fine with him going to another? How does that make any sense and why would Tech care?

 

I tend to lean on the side of Howard being a bitch, but the one way would be he needed to take some extra classes over the summer to be able to transfer to Michigan, whereas Illinois didn't have that requirement. Given that Illinois is a pretty damn good university academically in its own right, even if not at the overall level of Michigan, I don't really buy it, but that's an explanation at least.

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Jesus christ who the hell are you ?  Twitter has moved on ?  You mean like the 5 people who care what twitter has to say ?  You've clearly moved on from rational thought.  Yeah twitter has moved on, l

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5 hours ago, SL Xpress said:

 

I tend to lean on the side of Howard being a bitch, but the one way would be he needed to take some extra classes over the summer to be able to transfer to Michigan, whereas Illinois didn't have that requirement. Given that Illinois is a pretty damn good university academically in its own right, even if not at the overall level of Michigan, I don't really buy it, but that's an explanation at least.

Michigan is a whole different beast to transfer into, from my understanding. 

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9 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

What I don't get is, we supposedly blocked him from transferring to one B1G school but were just fine with him going to another? How does that make any sense and why would Tech care?

Tech didn't "block him"  that's Michigan's interpretation.

They just cut off funding.  Shannon could have completed the courses on his own this summer.

The party didn't go on forever, evidently. Virtually no school would have done what Michigan is bitching about NOT happening.

Chicago man ending up in Illinois sounds like Shannon landed where he wanted.

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11 hours ago, Js1 said:

Mark Adams is a saint and cures cancer. We know. No way he’d ever play dirty or do wrong! 

He’s still not going to fuck you, Slorch

I did laugh.

He didn't fuck Shannon either.  Basically Michigan folks don't understand/ are in denial of the dynamic of the husband cutting off car payments after the ex-wife filed for divorce. The relationship changed at Shannon's behest.  Tech doesn't owe him funding for summer school after that.

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8 minutes ago, Herpa Derpa said:

Terrible analogy. The husband will continue to make those payments until the divorce is finalized, after which he will pay it in alimony.

You could have found a better lawyer on Surly...

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31 minutes ago, Satchel said:

So, how does Tech end up with the #1 transfer class? 


Well, it’s early. Let’s see how everything shakes out. I feel quite confident there’s a lot more portal movement to come. 

But the answer is a combination of NIL money and last season’s success. Particularly. Bryson Williams’ success. 

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17 minutes ago, SL Xpress said:


Well, it’s early. Let’s see how everything shakes out. I feel quite confident there’s a lot more portal movement to come. 

But the answer is a combination of NIL money and last season’s success. Particularly. Bryson Williams’ success. 

That old man bears watching. He just got a kid Beard had targeted.

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2 hours ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

Had the NCAA not dragged their feet on this issue and now totally abdicated any responsibility towards creating a suitable structure this could've been a boon for college basketball in keeping stars in school longer.  Imagine if NIL was around for the Fab 5.

What's a suitable structure? I see people talk about it all the time. I don't understand what a suitable structure that's realistic and enforceable looks like with NIL, without Congress and the DOJ/FBI overseeing it.

Collective bargaining? With 18-22 year olds where the most valuable market setters are gone the soonest?

NIL that runs directly through the schools? That's still against anti trust legislation. An anti trust exemption for college sports? That's congress, not the NCAA.  

The key thing is how do you distinguish between legitimate NIL opportunities, like what Logan Eggleston received from Champion in their Get It Girl promotion, and booster led funding such as Burnt Ends, and what makes booster led NIL funding wrong.

Apparently the presidents and ADs are going to try to put a fence around NIL opportunities for existing athletes versus NIL opportunities negotiated with recruits and potential transfers, but that's going to be very difficult to do as well. The only enforceable mechanism they have is for the powers that be at schools to do a John Wick style excommunicado for any boosters that get out of line, but that's not something that can be counted across the board in any way shape or form, so the schools that actually go through with it to punish their boosters will be at a competitive disadvantage to schools that say they're doing it, while having a nod nod wink wink association with boosters who do help with recruiting through financial incentives. 

The fundamental issue is that the market value of athletes who can make a potential difference between winning and losing is much higher than is being financially recognized, either pre NIL or now. Meanwhile administrations and coaching staffs are being compensated at a market rate. They want to continue to control the market but it's much more difficult now. 

I'd love to hear some ideas that, again, are realistic and enforceable. 

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On 5/5/2022 at 11:27 AM, SL Xpress said:

What's a suitable structure? I see people talk about it all the time. I don't understand what a suitable structure that's realistic and enforceable looks like with NIL, without Congress and the DOJ/FBI overseeing it.

Collective bargaining? With 18-22 year olds where the most valuable market setters are gone the soonest?

NIL that runs directly through the schools? That's still against anti trust legislation. An anti trust exemption for college sports? That's congress, not the NCAA.  

The key thing is how do you distinguish between legitimate NIL opportunities, like what Logan Eggleston received from Champion in their Get It Girl promotion, and booster led funding such as Burnt Ends, and what makes booster led NIL funding wrong.

Apparently the presidents and ADs are going to try to put a fence around NIL opportunities for existing athletes versus NIL opportunities negotiated with recruits and potential transfers, but that's going to be very difficult to do as well. The only enforceable mechanism they have is for the powers that be at schools to do a John Wick style excommunicado for any boosters that get out of line, but that's not something that can be counted across the board in any way shape or form, so the schools that actually go through with it to punish their boosters will be at a competitive disadvantage to schools that say they're doing it, while having a nod nod wink wink association with boosters who do help with recruiting through financial incentives. 

The fundamental issue is that the market value of athletes who can make a potential difference between winning and losing is much higher than is being financially recognized, either pre NIL or now. Meanwhile administrations and coaching staffs are being compensated at a market rate. They want to continue to control the market but it's much more difficult now. 

I'd love to hear some ideas that, again, are realistic and enforceable. 

The resulting lack of structure is a function of the fact that we're unwilling to admit what this actually is. There's a tension that is created in still pretending this is an amateur endeavor while simultaneously running a professional operation and it leaves us in a quandary where we're left without adequate rules in place to curtail this new world from being the wild wild west. Paying the athletes as employees destroys the myth all of us are holding on to, but paying them as employees also means they'd be beholden to contracts and other controlling mechanisms available with employer/employee relationships. 

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SL Xpress

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53 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

The resulting lack of structure is a function of the fact that we're unwilling to admit what this actually is. There's a tension that is created in still pretending this is an amateur endeavor while simultaneously running a professional operation and it leaves us in a quandary where we're left without adequate rules in place to curtail this new world from being the wild wild west. Paying the athletes as employees destroys the myth all of us are holding on to, but paying them as employees also means they'd be beholden to contracts and other controlling mechanisms available with employer/employee relationships. 

Well, I can’t argue with that. 

It’s a tough myth to let go of. For example, you couldn’t pay everyone the same wage, because some people simply have a higher market value. That’s going to cause all kinds of new issues. Not to mention you have Title IX impacting college sports in ways it doesn’t the professional leagues. What a mess that will make. I’d honestly love it if we could stop the charade and simply pay players closer to their market worth outright, but my gosh that would make a mess of all the entrenched sense of false equity that’s been built around college sports, right alongside the myth that these are just normal college students who choose to play for beloved U out of the same kind of passion we all share. 

I figure at least NIL is a mechanism to correct some of the market inequities, so it’s not quite as much of a black market as it has been. But I’m not sitting here pretending I think we’re entering an era of peace love and understanding in college athletics. We all feel like we’re in the midst of the kind of disruptive event where nothing is the same any more. 

Anyway, thanks for your usual thoughtful response. We’ll have to see where things go. I can’t say I’m looking forward to it. At least currently. 

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Former Michigan State star Adreian Payne was shot and killed in Orlando, Florida, early Monday morning, the Orange County Sheriff's Office said.

He was transported to the hospital, where he was pronounced dead. Payne, who was the 15th pick by the Atlanta Hawks in the 2014 NBA draft, was 31.

Per local authorities, a man named Lawrence Dority has been arrested for the shooting on a first-degree murder warrant. Dority stayed on the scene and spoke with police before he was transported to jail.

Payne was a member of the All-Big Ten second team in two of his four seasons (2013, 2014) with Tom Izzo's squad. He averaged 16.4 PPG and 7.3 RPG for the Spartans and led the team to the Elite Eight in the 2013-14 season.

Golden State Warriors star Draymond Green, who was Payne's teammate for two seasons at Michigan State, tweeted broken heart emojis on Monday.

The 6-foot-10 standout played four seasons in the NBA with multiple teams. In 2018, he was waived by the Orlando Magic after he was named in a report by ESPN's Outside The Lines that he had been involved in an alleged sexual assault at Michigan State in 2010. No charges were filed in that case.

Payne never played in the NBA again but spent the last few years of his career overseas.

During his time at Michigan State, Payne befriended an 8-year-old cancer patient named Lacey Holsworth, who became an inspiration for him and the team. Holsworth helped the team cut down the nets when it won the Big Ten tournament in 2014. Weeks later, Holsworth died. Payne released a statement then about her death.

"Words can't express how much I already miss Lacey," he said. "She is my sister and will always be a part of my life. She taught me how to fight through everything with a smile on my face even when things were going wrong."

In September, Payne tweeted that he was taking a break from basketball because his 4-year-old son Amari had to undergo a brain procedure. He said basketball was not as important as his family.

"I will be back doing what I love soon," Payne wrote in his statement. "Basketball has my heart. Amari is my heartbeat."

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2 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

Not sure I understand that one, but ok

Beard was too intense for him. He wanted to go play for a player's coach, who runs a sophisticated low post offense, allows a lot of player freedom, and doesn't get so hung up on defense or playing physical, which isn't Mitchell's strong suit.

Or, it could be the key people around him got paid. One or the other.

Ramey going there makes some sense. It's not like he wouldn't be a fit (unlike Mitchell, who isn't a good fit at all). He's intense, physical, and plays great defense. The key thing for Ramey is initiating the offense. I don't know if he's going to get to do that at West Virginia or not. 

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1 minute ago, SL Xpress said:

Beard was too intense for him. He wanted to go play for a player's coach, who runs a sophisticated low post offense, allows a lot of player freedom, and doesn't get so hung up on defense or playing physical, which isn't Mitchell's strong suit.

Or, it could be the key people around him got paid. One or the other.

Ramey going there makes some sense. It's not like he wouldn't be a fit (unlike Mitchell, who isn't a good fit at all). He's intense, physical, and plays great defense. The key thing for Ramey is initiating the offense. I don't know if he's going to get to do that at West Virginia or not. 

I dunno, that's kind of why I was confused. WVU doesn't really do the Press Virginia thing much anymore, but they still play a very physical game. I expected him to end up in the B1G or some other lower tier non-Big 12 P5 school.

I was kinda hoping Ramey would look our way, always been a fan. But I don't think what Adams' is putting down is dissimilar enough from Beard to be enough of a change of pace for him. Also, I have no idea if Adams would even be interested, so there's that.

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Rickylovesweed

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On 5/13/2022 at 10:43 AM, Brian Fantana said:

I heard a rumor Ramey might end up there, too

That would be odd. To leave Texas for a team in rebuild mode? Right now West Virginia looks like the 9th or 10th best team in the Big 12. 

Unless Texas nudged him out the door which may have happened. 

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15 minutes ago, Rickylovesweed said:

That would be odd. To leave Texas for a team in rebuild mode? Right now West Virginia looks like the 9th or 10th best team in the Big 12. 

Unless Texas nudged him out the door which may have happened. 

From my experience with how Beard processes players, I sincerely doubt he was pushed out. He's probably going to end up at a very good program.

WVU was a rumor a few weeks ago but that seems to have just been a rumor. Last I heard he was getting chased by Duke, Houston, Arizona and Louisville. With Sasser going back to Houston that's probably out the window.

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4 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

From my experience with how Beard processes players, I sincerely doubt he was pushed out. He's probably going to end up at a very good program.

WVU was a rumor a few weeks ago but that seems to have just been a rumor. Last I heard he was getting chased by Duke, Houston, Arizona and Louisville. With Sasser going back to Houston that's probably out the window.

I need to see where Ramey ends up. 

All these schools seem to be recruiting Ramey as a secondary option dependent on other guys returning or other transfer options. If Ramey ends up at a school like WV those schools didn't really want him. 

Ramey is a good defensive player but also an extremely flawed offensive player. Seems like he's WV bound based on the twitter rumor mill. 

 
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7 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

He might be a secondary option for sure, a lot of teams would love him for his defensive capabilities alone. One of Duke's guards just announced he was staying in the portal so that might be a motivator for them.

Duke just had a 5 star guard reclassify. 

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Blotto

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Coach McKillop retires at Davidson after 33 years. Steph was overwhelmingly the reason why, but their run to the elite 8 in '08 was fun to watch, and they gave KU a hell of a game to make the final 4. Seemed like a good guy and posted pretty good career numbers. 

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/34108939/davidson-men-basketball-coach-bob-mckillop-announces-retirement-33-seasons

 

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19 hours ago, Blotto said:

Coach McKillop retires at Davidson after 33 years. Steph was overwhelmingly the reason why, but their run to the elite 8 in '08 was fun to watch, and they gave KU a hell of a game to make the final 4. Seemed like a good guy and posted pretty good career numbers. 

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/34108939/davidson-men-basketball-coach-bob-mckillop-announces-retirement-33-seasons

 

Have to admire someone who stayed at a smaller school such as Davidson and quite successfully too for so many years, no doubt he had countless offers for bigger gigs.  It’s looking like Few will follow suit.  

13 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

2021 Gonzaga being ahead of 2021 Baylor is hysterical.

 

 Might be a shocker but don’t really get the love for 2015 UK, Defensively they were pretty damn good but sucked shit through a straw Offensively imo.  They had a handful of games where they should’ve lost, LSU & ND come to mind, but I’ll always have the KU, UCLA and Press Virginia ass kickings to remember that season by.  

Fuck Wisconsin! 

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Blotto

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https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/34121440/houston-baptist-men-basketball-star-darius-lee-killed-8-other-shot-harlem-gathering

HBU's leading scorer and rebounder last year (18/8).  I think he had one year left, but was home for the summer. He suited up last year against us. This f'n country, man. 

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