Do we have a McAullife vs. Younkin thread?

[Incredulity 11555]

Just now, Sawbonz said:

Remind me who the Democratic nominee was?

[Nice Guy Eddie 13414]

9 minutes ago, lemonlime said:

Bingo.  They should have immediately come out with something like the GOP is scared to have their children learn about slavery, Jim Crow, and redlining, and think their children are such snowflakes they can't be exposed to those things.  Instead they just ignored it. The Dems need to be way more aggressive in their messaging, and stop letting the GOP get away with this bullshit.  Fucking call them on it.

Disagree. Dems should just state that their view is that schools should teach facts and everything you mention is a fact. Further, Dems should state without reservation that white people are not evil and no one should be ashamed to be white. Perhaps it should be stated exactly like that, but make a similar statement. And don't take 5 paragraphs to say that. One simple sentence.  And that they would never let schools teach CRT to high school kids or lower. Any school that does will lose federal funding.

[Captainant 27468]

8 minutes ago, Creasy Bear said:

Is gay marriage fears still a thing?

Virginia still has a gay marraige ban in their state constitution. It's defunct thanks to Obergefel v Hodges, and they're working on repealing the amendment that was voted into place in 2007, but wouldn't you know it, it's generally opposed by republicans.

And considering the supreme court's posture of overturning precedent to meet political promises, Obergefel is certainly on notice.

Edited November 3, 2021 by Captainant

[lemonlime 5503]

4 minutes ago, Billy Pilgrim said:

My kids learned about slavery, and Jim Crow in school and no one has a problem with it because it’s part of history and no one wants to repeat those horrors. That’s not what CRT is and that’s not what those parents are upset about.

So what is CRT?  And what schools other than law schools is it being taught in?  

You don't get to lie that CRT is being taught in elementary schools and then rely on the actual definition of CRT, which you've been misrepresenting this entire time.  There is zero reason why Dems should let the GOP control the narrative in this nonsense way.  Yet they just did.

[wildcat09 29261]

6 minutes ago, Billy Pilgrim said:

My kids learned about slavery, and Jim Crow in school and no one has a problem with it because it’s part of history and no one wants to repeat those horrors. That’s not what CRT is and that’s not what those parents are upset about.

Ah, yes, racism, that thing that's totally in the past and definitely can't still be real today.

[Bateshorn 9905]

22 minutes ago, Bravo said:

me too

I think the strong, but not enough turnout in VA shows that democrats will vote when they are sufficiently motivated, even in this climate. I think in NJ you had a sense of “well, Murphy’s gonna win, so we are good” effect.  Murphy has high popularity ratings and the race was supposed to be a cake walk.  There were local things here and there, and the southern NJ boiling GOP anger is real, but Most of the NJ story stems from turnout.

[VRHorn 718]

17 minutes ago, Creasy Bear said:

Is gay marriage fears still a thing?

Well, this is from October 23, so you tell me...

AUSTIN — Do private citizens in Texas need to recognize gay marriages?

That’s the question Rep. James White, a Republican lawmaker running for statewide office, asked the attorney general last week. White’s request for opinion caused a stir on social media, baffling constitutional scholars and angering gay rights advocates.

More than six years after the U.S. Supreme Court legalized gay marriage nationwide in Obergefell vs. Hodges — and with few other protections for LGBTQ Texans — they wondered, what exactly is White’s point?

Experts said they didn’t think White’s request would have any impact on current law, chalking it up to political posturing ahead of a conservative primary race. It may be part of a conservative trend to leave unenforceable laws on the books in case these rulings are reversed.

The 2015 Obergefell decision made the ban on same sex-marriage in Texas and 12 other states unenforceable. But lawmakers have never removed the language, which voters enshrined in the Texas Constitution in 2005. In an interview with The Dallas Morning News, White said he is not asking Attorney General Ken Paxton to reject the court’s ruling on gay marriage.

“Some people were saying, ‘Oh he’s asking to see if Obergefell is applicable to Texas,’” White said. “No, I’m not saying that. It is applicable to Texas — as it applies to government officials recognizing different marriage constructs.”

He added: “But how does it apply to private citizens?”

White did not have an example for what situation he seeks to address nor did he say a specific incident spurred him to ask the question at this time.

He mentioned the rights of clergy to reject gay unions — but said that is not the sole reason he filed this request. Then he waved off — but did not completely reject — that he wants the attorney general to weigh in on whether businesses can deny services to same-sex couples.

“I don’t know if businesses are private citizens,” White said, while acknowledging they may be owned or run by private citizens. “Maybe a private citizen could be someone who says they’re a preacher. ... It could be a church deacon board.”

White said Hillister Baptist Church, where he attended until recently, checked its bylaws after the Supreme Court ruling to make sure it defined marriage in a way that was “consistent with church doctrine.”

Legal to turn away customers
Constitutional law experts said there are no state or federal laws that protect LGBTQ people from discrimination in public accommodations, and outside of the handful of cities that expressly ban it, it is legal in Texas to turn away customers because of their sexual orientation or gender identity. They added that White’s request is perplexing because the First Amendment already extends private citizens the right to refuse to recognize same-sex marriages.

“Private citizens do in fact have the ability to maintain their own personal beliefs,” said Dale Carpenter, a constitutional law professor at Southern Methodist University.

University of Houston political scientist Brandon Rottinghaus wondered whether White’s request may simply be a political statement to underline his conservative bonafides. White, who spent a decade in the Texas House, is challenging fellow Republican Sid Miller for agriculture commissioner in next year’s Republican primary election.

“There’s currency in being the most conservative politician in the room,” Rottinghaus said. “This gives him a chance to be able to plant that conservative flag on an issue that conservative voters are still skeptical about.”

Rep. Jessica González, a Dallas Democrat and member of the House LGBTQ Caucus, blamed Republicans like White for continuing to push more anti-LGBTQ rhetoric even after what was one of the most conservative legislative sessions in recent history.

“This is a clear reminder we must always be vigilant and ready to defend our rights,” she said in a statement to The News.

White rejected the idea that his letter was made for headlines. He’s made similar requests in the past year on controversial topics like vaccine mandates, critical race theory and police brutality.

Rottinghaus said White needs to shore up his right flank ahead of what will be a very conservative Republican primary.

“Strategically, to run as far right as you can on these issues will benefit a candidate at the ballot box,” he said.

Two current trends
Aside from politics, Carpenter sees White’s request as tied to two current trends in conservative legal circles.

One is the political and legal tactic of leaving unenforceable laws on the books in case a Supreme Court ruling is reversed. This argument — that the high court can only block government officials from enforcing a law but not permanently “overturn” or erase a state law itself — has most recently been an idea popular among anti-abortion advocates who hope the more conservative court will revisit Roe vs. Wade.

But Carpenter said it could also be used to attack LGBTQ rights. For example, in addition to the amendment in the Texas Constitution defining marriage as between one man and one woman, a state law banning sexual contact between people of the same sex is also still on the books.

Leaving these laws on the books has hurt LGBTQ communities even though they’re not enforceable. In Louisiana, for example, law enforcement officers arrested gay men under the color of that state’s ban on gay sexual contact in 2013 and 2015. The charges were dropped.

White told The News this so-called anti-sodomy statute “didn’t come up” in his conversations with constituents.

The second issue is about whether businesses can turn away LGBTQ customers, especially those seeking wedding services like cakes and flowers. Carpenter noted that Texas law already allows this.

“[White is] asking the attorney general for a symbolic statement asking for the exclusion of people who already aren’t protected in state or federal law,” he said. “I will be much more interested in seeing how [Texas AG] Ken Paxton responds rather than what’s in this letter.”

Paxton, a Republican opposed to expanding gay rights, is up for reelection next year. There is no deadline for him to issue his opinion, which does not have the force of law but can be used to bolster a litigant’s arguments in court.

“The effect [Paxton’s opinion] would have is on his base, who would presumably like what he has to say,” said Sanford Levinson, a constitutional law professor at the University of Texas at Austin School of Law. “I think it is completely political and has nothing particularly to do with law, in any standard sense.”

Carpenter said the last line of White’s request included a curious statement: It asked Paxton to declare that the Supreme Court ruling does not allow private citizens in Texas to recognize these unions.

“If he is saying that private citizens cannot recognize same-sex marriages, then that is clearly a violation of the First Amendment,” Carpenter said.

White demurred when asked whether he wants Paxton to say Texans are banned from recognizing gay unions. As for his personal beliefs, White said he supports the “one man, one woman” definition of marriage but added that does not mean he has “had bad experiences” with gay couples.

“We accept a lot of stuff we may disagree with. Overall it’s part of life. It’s part of living in a small ‘D’ democracy,” he said. “Just because I prefer Ford trucks does not mean I dislike Chrysler trucks.”

Edited November 3, 2021 by VRHorn
removed ad stuff

[hpslugga 4044]

7 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

So your position is this election was won based on massive mobilization of the Qtard base, rather than the Dems putting up a loser?

Why do these two things have to be mutually exclusive? If you read into what I said as a post mortem endorsement of Terry McAuliffe or anything to that effect, that’s a profound misreading. Of course he was a hideous candidate, as was the handful of others he ran against in the primary. That said, voting for Youngkin (unless you’re very wealthy) is voting against one’s interests regardless of who the Democrats trotted out.

If it’s your position that “owning the libs” isn’t an absolute cum-pumping goal of theirs, you’ve not been paying much attention to them. And it’s not even about weird conspiracy theories they have either, it’s just tribalistic “our team vs their team” sports mentality run amok.

Edited November 3, 2021 by hpslugga

[Sawbonz 27439]

I should clarify. Dems need the middle to win. It is a big tent party, and the fringe can turn off the moderates within the party and definitely independents. Also obvious cronyism can have a big effect. 

[Billy Pilgrim 1913]

7 minutes ago, hpslugga said:

Putting aside my objection to your sloppy use of the word “moderate,” this isn’t exclusive to any type of person. There’s no broad category of people who like being condescended to or told how to act/feel. That’s not the issue.

The issue is that we, as a society, have been forcibly moved slowly to the right of the political spectrum to the point where we’re supposed to give equal consideration between the whines and bitches over imagined issues conjured up by right wing blowhards and the actual grievances that anyone to the left of them (not even necessarily on the left of the spectrum) people have over issues that affect not only their lives but the lives of people they care about.

The environment isn’t on the same level as a misunderstood strawman of Critical Race Theory

The concept of a living wage isn’t on the same level of censoring books in public libraries (and that by itself is objectively an untenable position)

The concept of public healthcare isn’t on the same level as misunderstood “fraydumbs.”

The concern over nuclear proliferation is not on the same level as piss ant racist attitudes needing to be coddled for the purposes of making degenerates feel good.

And if people like you feel bad that I’m using the word “degenerate,” there’s a very simple way to quash that: don’t come to us with degenerate beliefs. Yes, there are such things as degenerate beliefs, much as you kick back against that.

-The belief that illegal immigrants are leeches on society that apply for public benefits is a degenerate belief

-The belief that African American men are genetically more prone to crime than anyone else is a degenerate belief

-The belief that homosexuals shouldn’t be able to codify their relationships in the same way heterosexuals can is a degenerate belief. 

-The belief that global climate change is a hoax being perpetrated by the Chinese in order to rob us of our economic freedom is a degenerate belief

-The belief that COVID-19 is a hoax being perpetrated by the Chinese in order to rob us of our religious freedom is a degenerate belief

-The belief that the 2020 presidential election (and only the presidential election) was stolen from Donald Trump by a voting machines system that was invented by Hugo Chavez is a degenerate belief 

Oh you don’t like the phrase “degenerate belief?” Fine. I’ll substitute “lie” in its place. How’s that? 

No, the reason dems are feeling heat is that it’s not a single reason. It’s a host of factors that range from a rampage of disinformation regarding the deadliest pandemic we’ve ever seen in our nation’s history, economic downturn that’s a combination of ill effects from that pandemic as well as workers finally beginning to kick back against the very elitist and corporate nature of that economy (elitism and corporatism that douchebags like Youngkin live to defend, incidentally), so on and so forth. It’s not one thing, and it never is.

To pin it down on “wokeness” is to parrot shit that someone else heard from Tucker Carlson or Nick Bongino or some other talking head who has an economic interest in promoting candidates/parties when their listeners do not. Virginia voters won’t benefit one iota from Youngkin’s term as governor, and they don’t care because at least “we owned the libs on November 2nd 2021!!!”

It’s no different than when people in California say “we won!!!” when the Lakers get another NBA ring. Those gop voters in Virginia didn’t win shit last night. Some cracker, who would hate them if he personally knew them, won against some other cracker.

And most people don’t want others calling them Maoists, Castroites, Stalinists, Leninists or cucks just because they have political views to the left of Atila the Hun. There again you take only one half of that dynamic into consideration.

Oh bullshit. If you were so concerned about the political spectrum, you’d at least presumably know what it is and where candidates fall on it. You’d then know that both parties are well to the right of the population on virtually all issues of actual consequence, and that the only thing separating them is that the republicans are even further to the right than the Democratic Party, which is pretty far to the right on their own. If you wanted the country to be governed from the actual center, there’s no way in hell you could rationalize voting for a Republican. 

Such as?

The lesson learned from this election is that people are highly suggestible and easily persuaded by con artists and would rather vote against their own interests and see lib tears than see their own situation improve, let alone their fellow man.

Wait…. You think YOU are moderate??

I’m the dictionary definition of a libertarian and I don’t consider myself liberal or conservative. I hate the abortion law and I hate vaccine mandates.  I can assure that I’m much more moderate than you are based on your stuff that I’ve read. I haven’t called anyone a Marxist/Maoist/Stalinist because I don’t have a problem with what anyone believes or how they vote. The only thing I take issue with is how you deliver your message. The dems aren’t a likeable party right now because there’s people like you and captain ant on Twitter berating people because they disagree with things you believe in. I know you don’t believe it but the Cloak Room is an echo chamber. It’s obvious that no one here wants to try and make logical sense out of what happened last night so I’ll see my way out.

[Sawbonz 27439]

9 minutes ago, hpslugga said:

That said, voting for Youngkin (unless you’re very wealthy) is voting against one’s interests regardless of who the Democrats trotted out.

I don’t know that this is true on its face. It might be worthy of deeper discussion in a different thread. If this were really true across the board, the Republican party would’ve been dead and gone long ago

Edited November 3, 2021 by Sawbonz
Siri

[wildcat09 29261]

2 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Disagree. Dems should just state that their view is that schools should teach facts and everything you mention is a fact. Further, Dems should state without reservation that white people are not evil and no one should be ashamed to be white. Perhaps it should be stated exactly like that, but make a similar statement. And don't take 5 paragraphs to say that. One simple sentence.  And that they would never let schools teach CRT to high school kids or lower. Any school that does will lose federal funding.

This is good, but I don't think it would be productive though to say something like "that's why we won't allow CRT to be taught." You start with this, then go on the offensive against the GOP for trying to cover up slavery, Jim Crow, Tulsa, etc. and explain that they're just using CRT to hide what they're really trying to do. 

The GOP is good at simple emotionally manipulative messaging, but its effectiveness decreases when you explain to people how the GOP is trying to manipulate them and that the GOP thinks they're stupid enough to fall for it.

[atomheartbevo 89452]

14 minutes ago, Billy Pilgrim said:

My kids learned about slavery, and Jim Crow in school and no one has a problem with it because it’s part of history and no one wants to repeat those horrors. That’s not what CRT is and that’s not what those parents are upset about.

12 minutes ago, hpslugga said:

Then what is it that they’re upset about? You can only keep up this charade for so long before you forfeit your right to define the terms being used.

CRT is whatever they need it to be.  Tucker could change the definition every night and it wouldn't matter to his audience.

And I do think it's telling that way too many people are upset about their kids being taught about slavery in school these days, and the same people are upset about CRT, even if they couldn't define it (or pick it out of a multiple choice Q&A).

 

 

 

[atomheartbevo 89452]

26 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

Last night was really bad news for Trump. Republicans flipped Virginia because they kept him at arms length. There’s now a clear path for them to regain control, he’s toast. 

Yeah. Unfortunately, I don't see Huffines/Abbott and DeSantis giving up on pleasing Trump - DeSantis in particular is in a bind - Trump could sink him (and may even do so if DeSantis presents any barrier to what Trump wants to do about '24), but there are a lot more Republicans who should start trying to keep Trump at arms length and just pretending like he doesn't exist.

[atomheartbevo 89452]

1 minute ago, Bravo said:

This is a historic moment in VA. 1st Statewide office held by a woman of color. Great moment last night. Meet your new Lt. Gov. 💪

I would like to see her shoot that rifle just the way it's configured.

[Incredulity 11555]

1 minute ago, atomheartbevo said:

Republicans who should start trying to keep Trump at arms length and just pretending like he doesn't exist.

The Republican Primary will do that, or won't.  Anything else is just fodder for talking heads.

[Captainant 27468]

yall qaeda really showing up STRONK! When will yall get to start using those guns?

Is it before or after you decide without evidence that the woke left is trying to teach your children that all white people are racist?

[Captainant 27468]

Or is it more of a "we didn't like how that election went" kind of thing?

[Incredulity 11555]

Just now, Captainant said:

When will yall get to start using those guns?

Right after this case is decided.

 

https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/supreme-court-gun-rights-oral-arguments/index.html

[High Plains Drifter 10979]

39 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

I still don't think Trump wants the Presidency again - he stands to make more money outside of it, and he wants much less of a spotlight on himself and his business.

 

 

Strongly disagree. His narcissism won't let him simply sit back and grift. He has to win win win to prove he's the best best best.

 

IOW, his narcissism > his greed

 

[wildcat09 29261]

Just now, Incredulity said:

Right after this case is decided.

 

https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/supreme-court-gun-rights-oral-arguments/index.html

I'm pretty cynical about the Court, but I'm pretty sure they're not going to rule that politically motivated shootings are legal.

[atomheartbevo 89452]

24 minutes ago, Creasy Bear said:

Is gay marriage fears still a thing?

[Captainant 27468]

3 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Right after this case is decided.

 

https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/supreme-court-gun-rights-oral-arguments/index.html

We should take this discussion to another thread, but the fact that the progun argument is framing CHL's as a "hunting permit" is pretty doggone concerning. Especially considering there's a kid in WI being tried for going protester hunting

[atomheartbevo 89452]

35 minutes ago, lemonlime said:

The Dems need to be way more aggressive in their messaging, and stop letting the GOP get away with this bullshit.  Fucking call them on it.

I don't want to be the one to break it to you, but....

[Incredulity 11555]

Just now, Captainant said:

We should take this discussion to another thread, but the fact that the progun argument is framing CHL's as a "hunting permit" is pretty doggone concerning. Especially considering there's a kid in WI being tried for going protester hunting

elections have consequences.

[hpslugga 4044]

6 minutes ago, Billy Pilgrim said:

Wait…. You think YOU are moderate??

I never said that, and it would take an extreme failure at basic logic and reading comprehension to have come up with that line.

What I said is that I object to you using the word to describing the kind of people you were describing. Being shy of admitting you voted for Republican candidates doesn’t make you a “moderate.” 

6 minutes ago, Billy Pilgrim said:

 I can assure that I’m much more moderate than you are based on your stuff that I’ve read.

Dubious assertion at best, and not even the point. The point is that you’re using terms without knowing what they even mean. 

6 minutes ago, Billy Pilgrim said:

I haven’t called anyone a Marxist/Maoist/Stalinist

didn’t say that you did. People who vote for GQP candidates do that on the regular. It requires one to shut one’s eyes not to see that and to plug one’s ears not to hear it. Just in my own district last year, a former classmate of my sister ran on a campaign of “don’t turn Texas into socialist California.” That bullshit is omnipresent in this country in general.

6 minutes ago, Billy Pilgrim said:

The only thing I take issue with is how you deliver your message.

I take a much more qualified issue with how you deliver your “message” and what that “message” actually is. 

6 minutes ago, Billy Pilgrim said:

The dems aren’t a likeable party right now

As someone who walked away from them 14 years ago, I’m aware of that. The difference is I dislike them for actual reasons and not from fictitious horseshit.

[hpslugga 4044]

15 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

CRT is whatever they need it to be.  
 

All too aware of that phenomenon as it’s not the first word/term they’ve done that with. It’s just the newest. Would just be nice if at least one of their fan boys would just admit it, but I guess institutional dishonesty is too powerful of a thing.

15 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Tucker could change the definition every night and it wouldn't matter to his audience.

Right, as long as it makes the DNC look bad.

15 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

And I do think it's telling that way too many people are upset about their kids being taught about slavery in school these days, and the same people are upset about CRT, even if they couldn't define it (or pick it out of a multiple choice Q&A)

Hey, that’s identity politics for ya. Trading away everything you actually know for a belief that’s required in order to “belong.”

[Captainant 27468]

2 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

elections have consequences.

sure do.

[Satoshi 129]

11 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

As always bringing truth. Well said. All of this is good in my opinion 

40 always Dems, 40 always GOP, 20 In the middle just wants no one to go too far one way or another and doesn’t want the boat rocked or fundamental change imo. 

 

[DonkeyCigars 144]

1 hour ago, alincoln said:

We have officially reached the stage when D elites start making empty threats about moving to Europe.  

haha yes, yes we have. 

[hpslugga 4044]

37 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

If this were really true across the board, the Republican party would’ve been dead and gone long ago

Not in the slightest. All they have to do is reframe the issue into some bullshit over which they can work up their base. Happens every time:

1988? Willie Horton!!!
1992? Clinton protested the Vietnam War…ON FOREIGN SOIL!!!
1996? Partial birth abortion!
2000? Al Gore “was there” when Bill Clinton was getting blown by Monica!
2004? Gay marriage!
2008? Obama read Saul Alinsky one time!
2012? SAUL ALINSKY!
2016? Crooked Hillary!
2020? Evil democrats are trying to steal your vote!

When you do that, you can easily con people into voting for you. Tell me, how’s that Trickle Down Economics thing working? I’m sure it’s great for people that earn more than 99% of the country, but what about those millions of people who live well below that income line that haven’t seen any benefit whatsoever to Voodoo policies?

Edited November 3, 2021 by hpslugga

[immamac 42524]

Can someone give me a cliffs notes on what the fuck this matters?

[workswithseed 2037]

Just now, immamac said:

Can someone give me a cliffs notes on what the fuck this matters?

Spoiler

Spoiler

Quote

All we are is dust in the wind.

 

 

 

[Hank Kingsley 20711]

Republicans will say or do anything to win. Besides lowering taxes, they want to delegitimize and disempower the government.  

Democrats (centrists/leftists/etc) have to win in very specific way, where their strong convictions are applauded as they promise to do a million things to make people's lives better. 

Our political system and rules currently do not allow any of these new promised policies to be done easily or at all.

We're just circling the drain. 

[wildcat09 29261]

1 minute ago, immamac said:

Can someone give me a cliffs notes on what the fuck this matters?

It's an indication that too many voters have already forgotten how awful the GOP is, even after the whole exacerbating a pandemic and trying to do a coup thing.

[DonkeyCigars 144]

1 hour ago, Poe It Up said:

Last night was really bad news for Trump. Republicans flipped Virginia because they kept him at arms length. There’s now a clear path for them to regain control, he’s toast. 

"Trump being off twitter was a help because people forgot what his behavior was like and it was a detriment to democrats, because they had no fodder to stir fear and doubt"

[Sawbonz 27439]

1 minute ago, hpslugga said:

Not in the slightest. All they have to do is reframe the issue into some bullshit over which they can work up their base. Happens every time:

1988? Willie Horton!!!
1992? Clinton protested the Vietnam War…ON FOREIGN SOIL!!!
1996? Partial birth abortion!
2000? Al Gore “was there” when Bill Clinton was getting blown by Monica!
2004? Gay marriage!
2008? Obama read Saul Alinsky one time!
2012? SAUL ALINSKY!
2016? Crooked Hillary!
2020? Evil democrats are trying to steal your vote!

When you do that, you can easily con people into voting for you. Tell me, how’s that Trickle Down Economics thing working?

If you really think those are the only reasons the majority of people who voted for Republican candidates voted that way, there really is no room for discussion or finding middleground. 

[Captainant 27468]

Just now, Sawbonz said:

If you really think those are the only reasons the majority of people who voted for Republican candidates voted that way, there really is no room for discussion or finding middleground. 

well they dont seem to be able to point to any concrete examples aside from MUH FEELZ and CRT BAD. Throw in some fundamental misunderstandings of how the economy functions, and baby you got yourself an electoral victory there

[Foosters 17734]

1 minute ago, Sawbonz said:

If you really think those are the only reasons the majority of people who voted for Republican candidates voted that way, there really is no room for discussion or finding middleground. 

Excuse our pessimism, but it can be difficult to pin down "republican values" considering they did a complete 180 on multiple pillars of conservative ideology because Trump told them to.

[hpslugga 4044]

4 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

If you really think those are the only reasons the majority of people who voted for Republican candidates voted that way, there really is no room for discussion or finding middleground. 

Only reasons? No. But they are reasons that are used, and that’s the point: they get needlessly thrown into the campaign for no reason other than to distract people from actual issues. That’s been known for decades. You’d do well to read up on what’s called the Southern Strategy, just for starters.

Edited November 3, 2021 by hpslugga

[Beantown Express 2.0 6555]

25 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

elections have consequences.

Incredibly dumb comment even for you.

[David Dennison 18661]

10 minutes ago, immamac said:

Can someone give me a cliffs notes on what the fuck this matters?

It doesn't if you're white.

It matters a lot if you aren't.

[David Dennison 18661]

8 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Republicans will say or do anything to win. Besides lowering taxes, they want to delegitimize and disempower the government.  

Democrats (centrists/leftists/etc) have to win in very specific way, where their strong convictions are applauded as they promise to do a million things to make people's lives better. 

Our political system and rules currently do not allow any of these new promised policies to be done easily or at all.

We're just circling the drain. 

No, they don't. They want the government to enforce policies that benefit them.

[henrygandorf 29179]

1 hour ago, hpslugga said:

Putting aside my objection to your sloppy use of the word “moderate,” this isn’t exclusive to any type of person. There’s no broad category of people who like being condescended to or told how to act/feel. That’s not the issue.

The issue is that we, as a society, have been forcibly moved slowly to the right of the political spectrum to the point where we’re supposed to give equal consideration between the whines and bitches over imagined issues conjured up by right wing blowhards and the actual grievances that anyone to the left of them (not even necessarily on the left of the spectrum) people have over issues that affect not only their lives but the lives of people they care about.

The environment isn’t on the same level as a misunderstood strawman of Critical Race Theory

The concept of a living wage isn’t on the same level of censoring books in public libraries (and that by itself is objectively an untenable position)

The concept of public healthcare isn’t on the same level as misunderstood “fraydumbs.”

The concern over nuclear proliferation is not on the same level as piss ant racist attitudes needing to be coddled for the purposes of making degenerates feel good.

And if people like you feel bad that I’m using the word “degenerate,” there’s a very simple way to quash that: don’t come to us with degenerate beliefs. Yes, there are such things as degenerate beliefs, much as you kick back against that.

-The belief that illegal immigrants are leeches on society that apply for public benefits is a degenerate belief

-The belief that African American men are genetically more prone to crime than anyone else is a degenerate belief

-The belief that homosexuals shouldn’t be able to codify their relationships in the same way heterosexuals can is a degenerate belief. 

-The belief that global climate change is a hoax being perpetrated by the Chinese in order to rob us of our economic freedom is a degenerate belief

-The belief that COVID-19 is a hoax being perpetrated by the Chinese in order to rob us of our religious freedom is a degenerate belief

-The belief that the 2020 presidential election (and only the presidential election) was stolen from Donald Trump by a voting machines system that was invented by Hugo Chavez is a degenerate belief 

Oh you don’t like the phrase “degenerate belief?” Fine. I’ll substitute “lie” in its place. How’s that? 

No, the reason dems are feeling heat is that it’s not a single reason. It’s a host of factors that range from a rampage of disinformation regarding the deadliest pandemic we’ve ever seen in our nation’s history, economic downturn that’s a combination of ill effects from that pandemic as well as workers finally beginning to kick back against the very elitist and corporate nature of that economy (elitism and corporatism that douchebags like Youngkin live to defend, incidentally), so on and so forth. It’s not one thing, and it never is.

To pin it down on “wokeness” is to parrot shit that someone else heard from Tucker Carlson or Nick Bongino or some other talking head who has an economic interest in promoting candidates/parties when their listeners do not. Virginia voters won’t benefit one iota from Youngkin’s term as governor, and they don’t care because at least “we owned the libs on November 2nd 2021!!!”

It’s no different than when people in California say “we won!!!” when the Lakers get another NBA ring. Those gop voters in Virginia didn’t win shit last night. Some cracker, who would hate them if he personally knew them, won against some other cracker.

And most people don’t want others calling them Maoists, Castroites, Stalinists, Leninists or cucks just because they have political views to the left of Atila the Hun. There again you take only one half of that dynamic into consideration.

Oh bullshit. If you were so concerned about the political spectrum, you’d at least presumably know what it is and where candidates fall on it. You’d then know that both parties are well to the right of the population on virtually all issues of actual consequence, and that the only thing separating them is that the republicans are even further to the right than the Democratic Party, which is pretty far to the right on their own. If you wanted the country to be governed from the actual center, there’s no way in hell you could rationalize voting for a Republican. 

Such as?

The lesson learned from this election is that people are highly suggestible and easily persuaded by con artists and would rather vote against their own interests and see lib tears than see their own situation improve, let alone their fellow man.

the old misconception or myth is that political debate lives on two opposing sides of the same issue.  abortion, gun control, taxes.  the reality is that the real debate is over which issues matter at all.  the gop is currently winning that debate.

there's being right and there's what wins elections.  dems care too much about one and not enough about the other.

[David Dennison 18661]

5 minutes ago, Bravo said:

VA just elected their 1st black woman to statewide office how is that bad?

Glenn Youngkin was elected governor. Any Republican voted to office is bad for non-white people in this country. Full stop.

[gmr548 16518]

I do hope you are wrong on the trump 24 thing. I don’t think there’s any way he doesn’t run or get the nom and that makes me sad. 

If Trump runs in the GOP primary he will be the nominee. To even entertain the idea of him losing the GOP primaries is insanity. He is an actual god among GOP primary voters. They will literally storm the Capitol and die for him. They will go down with the ship (on Lake Travis).

I am not sure he beats Biden or anyone else in a general. You want to flip the script on lackluster enthusiasm from Democrats when they have power and independents gravitating toward the party out of power? Put Trump on the ballot.

If there’s any other GOP nominee they’re in as good of a position as one can be against an incumbent President.

[StruggleBus 3922]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

Any Republican voted to office is bad for non-white people in this country. Full stop.

[gmr548 16518]

And then Democrats will crush the GOP.
Rinse, repeat.
It's become incredibly predictable.

No, at this point I think it’s been made pretty clear the GOP will be utilizing subversion once they regain power. Watching Democrats right now is like watching Texas blow the RRS.

[JimmyJames 12271]

8 minutes ago, Bravo said:

VA just elected their 1st black woman to statewide office how is that bad?

I dunno. Is she a Republican? If so she’s an enabler of a shitty party that has no platform and no beliefs except cutting taxes for the very wealthy and attempting to overthrow democracy so they can impose a minority rule apartheid. 
 

The guy who won in Virginia, nobody has any clue what he actually believes in, which is fitting for his party. 
 

Thats how it’s bad. 

[David Dennison 18661]

3 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

No, at this point I think it’s been made pretty clear the GOP will be utilizing subversion once they regain power. Watching Democrats right now is like watching Texas blow the RRS.

https://harpers.org/archive/2020/04/good-guys-with-guns-socialist-gun-club/