The subtle art of not giving a fuck by Mark Manson

[Baboontyme 2809]

I love surly because there's always someone who know something about everything, or has seen the same show, read the same book, etc. I saw a couple of posts on this book in the Depression/OCD thread but I was kind of surprised there wasn't a thread so I figured I would start one. 

I decided to read this book without knowing shit about it, mostly because I am fundamentally opposed to the position that you should not give a fuck. Basically in my world view, not giving a fuck makes you an asshole. However, I suppose that philosophy is shaped more in regards to my thoughts on impacting others. People who walk around all proud that they don't give a fuck about what some random thinks about what they're doing are too selfish for my liking. This book is not about that, and I am glad that I read it. 

If you haven't read it, the book is more about the inevitability of life, the struggles each of us endure, the rewards that those struggles bring, and being honest with yourself and others about flaws, motivations, etc. 

If you have read it, what did you take away with it? What could you apply to real life?

I found that philosophically I agree with a lot of what Manson says. I honestly feel like I have already been adopting a lot of these core principles in my life over the past decade plus of my life's journeys. There are definitely ways to improve, and I love that basic premise that we're always wrong and are constantly striving to be "less wrong" - 1000% true! In fact one of my only gripes with it is finding out that Manson is in his 30s. What the fuck does a 30-something know about life? I'm 44 and I don't know shit, but I feel like as you get older that realization that you don't know everything, and that you should always keep yourself open to learning more, and learning from others, has become more emboldened. I suppose it's pretty cool that he has realized this early in life, and maybe it's my own age-ism thing, but I have a hard time taking life lessons from anyone a decade or so younger than me. 

In particular, I am interested in trying to apply some of these philosophies upon my parenting and my kids. Again maybe this is why I have a hard time completely buying in. As far as I can tell, at the time that he wrote the edition of the book that I read, Manson was married without kids. How can anyone know anything about life philosophy without going through raising children? But yet - again, I agree with almost everything I read. 

What say you? 

[Sbbruin 21825]

Whatever.

[Celery Man 20929]

Haven't read it, but it sounds interesting. A turning point in my life (connected with sobriety) was understanding and coming to peace with things I don't have control over, and letting that stuff go so I can focus my energy on literally everything else. Realizing that I have a nature that I can't control but I can recognize, understand, and work with was a big part of that. Sounds like maybe this book touches on that stuff, perhaps I'll give it a read.

[Baboontyme 2809]

3 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

Haven't read it, but it sounds interesting. A turning point in my life (connected with sobriety) was understanding and coming to peace with things I don't have control over, and letting that stuff go so I can focus my energy on literally everything else. Realizing that I have a nature that I can't control but I can recognize, understand, and work with was a big part of that. Sounds like maybe this book touches on that stuff, perhaps I'll give it a read.

I recommend it. Even if you're already on board with a lot of it, there is still a lot of thought provoking things in the book. 

Apparently he has another book called "Everything is Fucked: A Book about Hope". I feel like I REALLY need to read this one given...well, everything. 

[MillerEP 30446]

On 10/25/2021 at 12:30 PM, Baboontyme said:

I love surly because there's always someone who know something about everything, or has seen the same show, read the same book, etc. I saw a couple of posts on this book in the Depression/OCD thread but I was kind of surprised there wasn't a thread so I figured I would start one. 

I decided to read this book without knowing shit about it, mostly because I am fundamentally opposed to the position that you should not give a fuck. Basically in my world view, not giving a fuck makes you an asshole. However, I suppose that philosophy is shaped more in regards to my thoughts on impacting others. People who walk around all proud that they don't give a fuck about what some random thinks about what they're doing are too selfish for my liking. This book is not about that, and I am glad that I read it. 

If you haven't read it, the book is more about the inevitability of life, the struggles each of us endure, the rewards that those struggles bring, and being honest with yourself and others about flaws, motivations, etc. 

If you have read it, what did you take away with it? What could you apply to real life?

I found that philosophically I agree with a lot of what Manson says. I honestly feel like I have already been adopting a lot of these core principles in my life over the past decade plus of my life's journeys. There are definitely ways to improve, and I love that basic premise that we're always wrong and are constantly striving to be "less wrong" - 1000% true! In fact one of my only gripes with it is finding out that Manson is in his 30s. What the fuck does a 30-something know about life? I'm 44 and I don't know shit, but I feel like as you get older that realization that you don't know everything, and that you should always keep yourself open to learning more, and learning from others, has become more emboldened. I suppose it's pretty cool that he has realized this early in life, and maybe it's my own age-ism thing, but I have a hard time taking life lessons from anyone a decade or so younger than me. 

In particular, I am interested in trying to apply some of these philosophies upon my parenting and my kids. Again maybe this is why I have a hard time completely buying in. As far as I can tell, at the time that he wrote the edition of the book that I read, Manson was married without kids. How can anyone know anything about life philosophy without going through raising children? But yet - again, I agree with almost everything I read. 

What say you? 

The underlying Philosophy to much of what he says in this book is the Philosophy of Stoicism. He picks and chooses a bit, but ultimately all the elements are there (Amor Fati, Memento Mori, Premeditato Malrum, etc.), and he has done a couple of interviews where he talks about how he got the ideas from the Stoics. I've been on record a couple of times on the board espousing my love for the Philosophy. If you want to dig in more and learn the practices and stuff, there is a lot of there, since it's undergoing a big resurgence right now.  

[Hefeweizen 5308]

19 hours ago, MillerEP said:

The underlying Philosophy to much of what he says in this book is the Philosophy of Stoicism. He picks and chooses a bit, but ultimately all the elements are there (Amor Fati, Memento Mori, Premeditato Malrum, etc.), and he has done a couple of interviews where he talks about how he got the ideas from the Stoics. I've been on record a couple of times on the board espousing my love for the Philosophy. If you want to dig in more and learn the practices and stuff, there is a lot of there, since it's undergoing a big resurgence right now.  

All this - his book isn't bad but going back to  the Stoics is much better (and way deeper).

[Baboontyme 2809]

Interesting. Thanks guys. I'm going to finish this Everything is Fucked book and then I will check out the Stoics. 

[Chips O'Toole 1322]

On 11/1/2021 at 12:40 PM, MillerEP said:

The underlying Philosophy to much of what he says in this book is the Philosophy of Stoicism. He picks and chooses a bit, but ultimately all the elements are there (Amor Fati, Memento Mori, Premeditato Malrum, etc.), and he has done a couple of interviews where he talks about how he got the ideas from the Stoics. I've been on record a couple of times on the board espousing my love for the Philosophy. If you want to dig in more and learn the practices and stuff, there is a lot of there, since it's undergoing a big resurgence right now.  

Do you recommend a specific book or two to get started? Amazon had "A Handbook For New Stoics" on sale so I just grabbed it. 

[MillerEP 30446]

51 minutes ago, Chips O'Toole said:

Do you recommend a specific book or two to get started? Amazon had "A Handbook For New Stoics" on sale so I just grabbed it. 

For beginners, I would recommend A Guide to the good life by Bill Irvine:

https://www.amazon.com/Guide-Good-Life-Ancient-Stoic/dp/0195374614/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=

He makes the big themes approachable. Others will recommend you the primary texts like Meditations by Marcus Aurelius, The Enchiridion and Discourses of Epictetus, and Seneca's essays and letters, but personally, I wouldn't start there. They can be a tough read depending on which translation you pick up.

There are some good modern books by Dr Pigliucci, like "How to be a Stoic,"  Donald Robertson's books like "How to think like a Roman Emperor" and "inner Citadel" stuff, and Ryan Holiday's stuff, which is closer to Mark Manson's style.

[Izhmash 562]

On 1/1/2022 at 4:20 PM, MillerEP said:

For beginners, I would recommend A Guide to the good life by Bill Irvine:

https://www.amazon.com/Guide-Good-Life-Ancient-Stoic/dp/0195374614/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=

He makes the big themes approachable. Others will recommend you the primary texts like Meditations by Marcus Aurelius, The Enchiridion and Discourses of Epictetus, and Seneca's essays and letters, but personally, I wouldn't start there. They can be a tough read depending on which translation you pick up.

Just dropping in to say "thanks" for recommending Bill's book. I'm only 2 chapters in (started it leisurely this morning) and really appreciating his approach towards application of philosophy. Excited to dive in.

[Kennythetiger 9374]

On 1/1/2022 at 3:21 PM, Chips O'Toole said:

Do you recommend a specific book or two to get started? Amazon had "A Handbook For New Stoics" on sale so I just grabbed it. 

[Smax 3800]

On 6/20/2022 at 5:59 PM, Kennythetiger said:

His ego is the enemy is worth reading

[Kennythetiger 9374]

5 hours ago, Smax said:

His ego is the enemy is worth reading

Thank you. 

[Hefeweizen 5308]

On 1/1/2022 at 2:20 PM, MillerEP said:

For beginners, I would recommend A Guide to the good life by Bill Irvine:

https://www.amazon.com/Guide-Good-Life-Ancient-Stoic/dp/0195374614/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=

He makes the big themes approachable. Others will recommend you the primary texts like Meditations by Marcus Aurelius, The Enchiridion and Discourses of Epictetus, and Seneca's essays and letters, but personally, I wouldn't start there. They can be a tough read depending on which translation you pick up.

There are some good modern books by Dr Pigliucci, like "How to be a Stoic,"  Donald Robertson's books like "How to think like a Roman Emperor" and "inner Citadel" stuff, and Ryan Holiday's stuff, which is closer to Mark Manson's style.

Thanks again for the recommendation.  Irvines book is great and easy reading.  I bought Meditations this morning ( a translation that is recommended was on sale at Amazon) and am stating that next.

 

 The best part of stoic philosophy is the way it forces you to face your failings.  The parts about enjoying luxury have really caused me to take a hard look at what I spend money on…

[Celery Man 20929]

Still meaning to dig into some actual stoic philosophy. I started the Manson book but didn't get very far before deciding I'm not interested in hearing these pearls of wisdom from Tucker Max.

[HamsterHookah 112]

1 hour ago, Celery Man said:

Still meaning to dig into some actual stoic philosophy. I started the Manson book but didn't get very far before deciding I'm not interested in hearing these pearls of wisdom from Tucker Max.

Same. I thought this was a joke and people who have read this book and earnestly recommend it are automatically negged as idiots to me, mentally. It's "The Alchemist" for middle-aged males.

That said, the thing I resent most about it, is that because the publishing industry is a cartel of like 4 or 5 publishing houses (the CEO of Penguin just resigned in a hissy fit because the latest M&A to further reduce these guys stranglehold was shot down in court), they can sometimes be unimaginative and ripe for copy-cats until people stop buying the trend.

After Twilight's surprise smash hit you couldn't get away from supernatural romance for years. Then you had the wave of "The Girl in/on a(n) ____".  The Girl on a train, in a window, on the beach, in therapy, on the jail cell, etc.

In this case, this silly book spawned a bunch of macho self-help books with a bleeped out word in the title. It was blasé and completely nauseating in it's mediocrity and ubiquity. In other words, it was the perfect Hudson News airport book.

[High Plains Drifter 11024]

 

Begin with the late Romans, including Boethius, of course. Then you should dip rather extensively into early Medieval. You may skip the Renaissance and the Enlightenment. That is mostly dangerous propaganda. Now that I think of it, you had better skip the Romantics and the Victorians, too. For the contemporary period, you should study some selected comic books. I recommend Batman especially, for he tends to transcend the abysmal society in which he's found himself. His morality is rather rigid, also.