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sheeeit

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fattyflattie

fattyflattie 4640

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Posted
Just now, JimmyJames said:

Does your “crew” have a million dollars in net worth yet? If not, why not?

Most aren’t 40 yet, but I know one has several houses in east Houston he rents out, and a ranch in Mexico.  One dude has 6 kids, so he probably hasn’t made it there either.  One guy is on wife 3 so definitely not. But at ~125k/yr with no school loans, they’ve had a pretty good start and I truest hope they are putting it away.  One thing I know, they pay their fair share in taxes. 

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23699

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Posted
14 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

I know, and they make a fuckload of overtime.  And most never finished high school. That’s why I don’t understand it, I suppose. Some literally have no skill other can show up and sometimes not fuck things up. 

Show up on time with just a very basic level of competence and you will do very well on average in this country.  The right skillset, whether trade or academic, is just a multiplier to that basic truth.  

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SydneyCarton

SydneyCarton 49328

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4 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

I’ve got poor family out in east Texas.  Many afflicted by some type of mental situation, addiction, sometimes a mix of both.  But I understand why they are poor. They don’t gaf not to be.  They are not going to work 1/10th as hard as the Mexican and Guatemalans on my crew.  I have to make those fuckers take their Sunday’s off, or they’ll literally join a crew for day work on Sunday’s.  Not to mention sleeping 3-4 to a room to save their $80/day perdiem.   Those guys refuse to be poor.  I know johnnysack catches a lot of shit here, but his tenets of things to avoid and you won’t be poor is pretty spot on.  Are some people never going to have a chance, of course.  But if you follow those 5-6 things he quotes, you should not be poor in America. And by “poor” I mean you should be well off enough that you can contribute something to income tax.  
 

Apologies to the board for going off topic. I was not trolling, just a dumbass I guess.  Interested in seeing more tax talk, it fascinates me. I’ll not contribute. 

Now tell me how a young single mom who made a mistake and has a kid (illegal fo get an abortion now in Texas) is going to make roughneck money when she has a kid at home she has to take care of? You’re taking a small segment of folks and blanket attributing it to everyone who is “poor.” 
 

the fact is your model on the topic is a small group of people who can make those sacrifices for jobs that hard that also pay well isn’t indicative of the entire world of the poor. 

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sheeeit

sheeeit 129

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1 hour ago, Blotto said:

So its your contention that after annual price inflation of what appears to be roughly +6.5% , -2.5%, + 2.5%, +19% that prices are over all lower?  I still think your chart shows exactly what I stated, its only relative to the price 3 months before. Otherwise how could changing the duration parameter to 6 or 12 months lead to these results:

image.thumb.png.2c58826d2a644cbe062dd1f68689d033.png

absolute prices are either lower than in 2017 or they are not. the trend should be "negative" (below 0) in all 3 cases, no? On the other hand, if you just assume that what is being plotted is the price relative to the variable time frame defined in the data query (3 months, 6 months or 12 months), it all makes sense and would be consistent with the overall CPS inflation chart I posted twice earlier. please explain why 6 month and 12 month charts show diff results, I'm here to learn.

I appreciate the normal response.   I don't know why the charts change.  Their methodology is weird.  I tried to understand it.  I think it is mixing different things.  Prices jump around a lot.  

As you correctly said, the proof should be in the actual prices.

It is really hard to find data to show this but here goes.

https://www.reviewed.com/laundry/content/electrolux-efls617siw-washing-machine-review

This is a link to a review from November 2018 for an Electrolux washing machine.  The MSRP was $1,099 and they talk of a "sale" price of $900.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Electrolux-4-3-cu-ft-High-Efficiency-Front-Load-Washer-in-White-ENERGY-STAR-EFLW317TIW/301611901?mtc=Shopping-VF-F_D29A-B-D29A-029_008_LAUNDRY-Multi-NA-Feed-PLA-2153902-WF-MajorAppl&cm_mmc=Shopping-VF-F_D29A-B-D29A-029_008_LAUNDRY-Multi-NA-Feed-PLA-2153902-WF-MajorAppl-71700000034368214-58700003951482541-92700032005039943&msclkid=02dd80a54d0817a9b4f2e124d0532fb9&gclid=02dd80a54d0817a9b4f2e124d0532fb9&gclsrc=3p.ds#product-section-overview

This is essentially the exact same machine.  Same size and all of the bells and whistles on the one reviewed from 2018 but they change model numbers every year or so.  Cost is $809.  

https://www.reviewed.com/laundry/content/samsung-wv60m9900aw-flexwash-washing-machine-review

This is a Samsung from October 2018 for $1,799 sales price from Best Buy.

https://www.abt.com/Samsung-6-Cu.-Ft.-Brushed-Black-Smart-Dial-Washer-With-FlexWash-And-Super-Speed-Wash-WV60A9900AVA5/p/165284.html

Same washer priced today for $1,709.  This is after 3 years of consistent 40%-50% tariffs.

Those above are more top of the line so I checked the more basic models.  I was also curious if domestic manufacturers increased their prices as a result of the tariffs.

https://www.reviewed.com/home-outdoors/news/the-best-memorial-day-sales-of-2018-are-on-home-appliances

Kenmore 25132 from May of 2018 $569.

https://www.americanfreight.com/br/pdp/kenmore-25132-4-3-cu-ft-top-load-washer-w-triple-action-impeller-white/136723

Kenmore 25132 from today $529

I don't know what to tell you.  I have no angle here.  I just looked at the charts and then did some actual intel.  Bottom line is that when looking at washing machines from 2018, the prices in all categories (china manufactured/US manufactured/high end/low end) are lower today.

Steel prices reacted similarly.  The steel tariffs started in March 2018 at 25% and were extended to Europe in June 2018.

https://www.unarcorack.com/steel-average/

The price for US steel in March of 2018 was $43 and in June of 2018 was $45.  By all accounts, the price of US steel should have gone up immediately and stayed up.  However, the results were different.  1 year later in June of 2019 the price was $26.  Prices stayed low.  The last price for 2019 was $29.  In June of 2020, a full 2 years after the tariffs were imposed, the price for steel was $25.  The point is that the tariffs were not "passed on" to US consumers after the tariffs.  Prices went down considerably.

Steel prices are surging now all over the world due to covid forcing factories to shut down but that doesn't have anything to do with US tariffs.

 

 

 

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Bullneck

Bullneck 19454

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Posted
2 hours ago, fattyflattie said:

I’m not talking liquid accounts. Retirement, home equity, other investment vehicles.  If you can’t find a way to significantly contribute to  out your retirement, you might be living outside your means.  Every situation is different, but the taking out 150k in loans to teach elementary school thread is ——> iirc. 

Google says the average income in the US is $31,133.  Let's say you have two people (man and woman, of course) earning two incomes, or $62,266 a year starting at age 20 (no college, they are just pulling triple shifts and stuff).  

  • Let's say they pay no tax.  Period.  They're smart.
  • Let's say they save 30% of their income, or $18,679 a year (easy, right?).  By age 40 they've saved $373,596,
  • Let's say they bought a house for maybe $300,000 for $2,000 a month (they still have $2,000 a month left over for food, medical, utilities, child care, cable TV, car payments, vacation!)

So, your projection of $1,000,000 - $373,596 = $626,404.  Hmm, where's that going to come from?  Home equity?  That house tripled in just 20 years!   It could happen.

 

I think you're on to something, since everything above is achievable and realistic.

 

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 46979

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17 minutes ago, Bullneck said:

Google says the average income in the US is $31,133.  Let's say you have two people (man and woman, of course) earning two incomes, or $62,266 a year starting at age 20 (no college, they are just pulling triple shifts and stuff).  

  • Let's say they pay no tax.  Period.  They're smart.
  • Let's say they save 30% of their income, or $18,679 a year (easy, right?).  By age 40 they've saved $373,596,
  • Let's say they bought a house for maybe $300,000 for $2,000 a month (they still have $2,000 a month left over for food, medical, utilities, child care, cable TV, car payments, vacation!)

So, your projection of $1,000,000 - $373,596 = $626,404.  Hmm, where's that going to come from?  Home equity?  That house tripled in just 20 years!   It could happen.

Using your numbers, it's more like $1,600 per month left over after savings and PITI.

Of course, the thing that gets sacrificed is savings.

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fattyflattie

fattyflattie 4640

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16 minutes ago, Bullneck said:

Google says the average income in the US is $31,133.  Let's say you have two people (man and woman, of course) earning two incomes, or $62,266 a year starting at age 20 (no college, they are just pulling triple shifts and stuff).  

  • Let's say they pay no tax.  Period.  They're smart.
  • Let's say they save 30% of their income, or $18,679 a year (easy, right?).  By age 40 they've saved $373,596,
  • Let's say they bought a house for maybe $300,000 for $2,000 a month (they still have $2,000 a month left over for food, medical, utilities, child care, cable TV, car payments, vacation!)

So, your projection of $1,000,000 - $373,596 = $626,404.  Hmm, where's that going to come from?  Home equity?  That house tripled in just 20 years!   It could happen.

 

I think you're on to something, since everything above is achievable and realistic.

 

Do you max out your retirement contributions?  If you put in 375k over 20 years you can absolutely multiply that.  But let’s just say you double it, and catch some equity from the house.  This shit isn’t that fucking hard.  But, a couple making 62k a year should absolutely be paying in, like I don’t know, everyone fucking else.  

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Bullneck

Bullneck 19454

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Posted
5 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Using your numbers, it's more like $1,600 per month left over after savings and PITI.

Of course, the thing that gets sacrificed is savings.

I knew there was an error in there but was just too lazy to check it.  That's too much work already to point out the stupidity of his post.

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Bullneck

Bullneck 19454

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Do you max out your retirement contributions?  If you put in 375k over 20 years you can absolutely multiply that.  But let’s just say you double it, and catch some equity from the house.  This shit isn’t that fucking hard.  But, a couple making 62k a year should absolutely be paying in, like I don’t know, everyone fucking else.  

Dude.

I said they pay no taxes.  Is that realistic?

Saving 30% of your income isn't realistic, either.  Johnny needs braces and Suzie wants a clarinet.  I guess grandparents should cover that if they didn't die of Covid or freeze to death.

You might see some appreciation in your house if you live in Austin and bought at the right time.  But bear in mind I last lived in Austin in 1987, which was great if you had a job where you could buy a house, but not such a great time if you bought in 1982.

If this fictional couple have any chance of buying a house it's going to be in Muleshoe and that house ain't appreciating.

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sheeeit

sheeeit 129

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1 hour ago, immamac said:

I'm saying if you take a loan out on an asset that has an unrealized gain, the money that is leveraged by that unrealized gain should be taxed as ordinary income upon the funding of that loan.

borrowing all the way up to 100% of your cost basis should not be taxed at all, regardless of that was a loan to begin with or not. (Cash out refi to your cost basis on a house should be allowed without tax implications, tax out refi above tapping into equity built without paying cash down should be)

Same thing with Stocks/financial instruments.

If you own stock, or are granted stock you should be able to leverage (margin trade, or collateralize) up to your cost basis without having tax implications. If you have an unrealized gain and use that gain for leverage/collateralized lending/margin you should pay those taxes upon funding of that instrument. 

Stock options when executed immediately become unrealized gain (usually, thats why people execute them for their "lower" strike price). If you turn around and get a loan against your millions in stock now you should absolutely pay taxes against that instead of just interest. 

RSU or Stock Grants already have a taxable event when they are issued. A lot of people instead of selling stock to pay the taxes that are due collateralize the stock and just pay interest so they can realize gains to pay their original taxes on the cost basis. It's completely fucking bonkers. 

1031 exchanges should also have a maximium deferral period or maximum multiplier for deferring original cost basis (10/20/30 years or death) 

 

Interesting.  I think I understand your point.  I buy 1M shares of Apple at $100/share.  I have bought the stock with income that has already been taxed and my basis is $100M.  Apple goes to $150/share so the value of my holding is now $150M.  So I can borrow up to $100M with no tax implication.  But if I borrow $120M I will have to pay ordinary income taxes (obviously at the top rate of 37%) on the $20M that is above my basis or $7.4M in income taxes.  Pretty sure that would stop the practice.  

This may make some sense as a tool to tax the super wealthy but for everyday people this would have serious implications. And, as I mentioned above, this tactic is really just delaying taxation not evading it.  I could make a pretty good argument that borrowing against those stocks and then that money going back into the economy is much better than an amount 37% lower going to the govt.  

So If I bought a house in Austin in 2010 for $150K with a $100K mortgage and I have made some improvements to it and there has been a lot of appreciation and now that house is worth $500K.  I decide I want to refinance and get some cash out so I do a loan for $300K.  This happens every single day.  Under your plan I have a new mortgage for $300K and I have to pay income taxes on $150K  (the amount of my new loan over my basis) which would be in the range of $45K.  So I would now have $200K more in long term debt and I get $155K in new cash.  Before the transaction I had $400K in net worth and after the transaction I would have $355K in net worth.  Who would ever do this?  Its a plan I suppose but it would absolutely kill the home mortgage industry and stall the economy.  

I start a new business venture with little or no start up money.  5 years in I have a decent little company but need cash to really grow.  I go to the bank for a business loan.  This happens every single day.  Under this approach, I have to pay income taxes on the amount of my loan as my basis in the business is zero.  So a 30% up front cost to borrow money (income taxes on the loan) plus the interest to grow my business.  No one would ever do this.

"Stock options when executed immediately become unrealized gain (usually, thats why people execute them for their "lower" strike price). If you turn around and get a loan against your millions in stock now you should absolutely pay taxes against that instead of just interest. "

I don't follow.  If Musk has an option to buy 1000 shares in Tesla at $50/ share that is his strike price.  So if the stock is currently trading at $100/share when he exercises his options he pays ordinary income tax on $50,000, the spread between $50 and $100, even though he received no cash and his basis remains at $50/share for capital gains purposes.  So when he does eventually sell the shares he will get hit with another 20% tax on those same shares at whatever the value of the stock is over $50/share.  Why does it matter if he sells stock or borrows against it?  The govt is still getting the income tax from the exercised option.  The govt misses out on capital gains taxes from selling his shares if he went that option but they are going to get it eventually and, in the meantime, some banker made some money which goes back into the economy.

 

 

 

 

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 46979

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2 minutes ago, sheeeit said:

Interesting.  I think I understand your point.  I buy 1M shares of Apple at $100/share.  I have bought the stock with income that has already been taxed and my basis is $100M.  Apple goes to $150/share so the value of my holding is now $150M.  So I can borrow up to $100M with no tax implication.  But if I borrow $120M I will have to pay ordinary income taxes (obviously at the top rate of 37%) on the $20M that is above my basis or $7.4M in income taxes.  Pretty sure that would stop the practice.  

This may make some sense as a tool to tax the super wealthy but for everyday people this would have serious implications. And, as I mentioned above, this tactic is really just delaying taxation not evading it.  I could make a pretty good argument that borrowing against those stocks and then that money going back into the economy is much better than an amount 37% lower going to the govt.  

So If I bought a house in Austin in 2010 for $150K with a $100K mortgage and I have made some improvements to it and there has been a lot of appreciation and now that house is worth $500K.  I decide I want to refinance and get some cash out so I do a loan for $300K.  This happens every single day.  Under your plan I have a new mortgage for $300K and I have to pay income taxes on $150K  (the amount of my new loan over my basis) which would be in the range of $45K.  So I would now have $200K more in long term debt and I get $155K in new cash.  Before the transaction I had $400K in net worth and after the transaction I would have $355K in net worth.  Who would ever do this?  Its a plan I suppose but it would absolutely kill the home mortgage industry and stall the economy.  

I start a new business venture with little or no start up money.  5 years in I have a decent little company but need cash to really grow.  I go to the bank for a business loan.  This happens every single day.  Under this approach, I have to pay income taxes on the amount of my loan as my basis in the business is zero.  So a 30% up front cost to borrow money (income taxes on the loan) plus the interest to grow my business.  No one would ever do this.

"Stock options when executed immediately become unrealized gain (usually, thats why people execute them for their "lower" strike price). If you turn around and get a loan against your millions in stock now you should absolutely pay taxes against that instead of just interest. "

I don't follow.  If Musk has an option to buy 1000 shares in Tesla at $50/ share that is his strike price.  So if the stock is currently trading at $100/share when he exercises his options he pays ordinary income tax on $50,000, the spread between $50 and $100, even though he received no cash and his basis remains at $50/share for capital gains purposes.  So when he does eventually sell the shares he will get hit with another 20% tax on those same shares at whatever the value of the stock is over $50/share.  Why does it matter if he sells stock or borrows against it?  The govt is still getting the income tax from the exercised option.  The govt misses out on capital gains taxes from selling his shares if he went that option but they are going to get it eventually and, in the meantime, some banker made some money which goes back into the economy.

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fattyflattie

fattyflattie 4640

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10 minutes ago, Bullneck said:

There's a gump chick who's smarter than you.  For real.  Let that sink in.

Lol. Yet somehow I was smart enough to avoid living in a cousin fucking hellscape my entire life.  For real though, if I’m 50 and have 9800 posts on Roll Tide Roll, mostly comprised of getting wet over some failure politician making a failure of an Alabama senate run, fucking shoot me. 

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PenelopeWitherspoon

PenelopeWitherspoon 19279

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Posted
21 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Lol. Yet somehow I was smart enough to avoid living in a cousin fucking hellscape my entire life.  For real though, if I’m 50 and have 9800 posts on Roll Tide Roll, mostly comprised of getting wet over some failure politician making a failure of an Alabama senate run, fucking shoot me. 

It is pretty fucking rich that anyone that lives in Texas talks down to anyone in any other state.   

But others have explained to you why you are wrong.  You are just too stupid to comprehend it.  Get fucked.

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fattyflattie

fattyflattie 4640

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3 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

It is pretty fucking rich that anyone that lives in Texas talks down to anyone in any other state.   

But others have explained to you why you are wrong.  You are just too stupid to comprehend it.  Get fucked.

You’re so enlightened now that you no longer live in Houston and are a New Yorker. Smartest person in the room, per usual. Go fuck yourself 

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PenelopeWitherspoon

PenelopeWitherspoon 19279

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Posted
5 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

You’re so enlightened now that you no longer live in Houston and are a New Yorker. Smartest person in the room, per usual. Go fuck yourself 

Except I am one of the smartest people in the room, especially when it comes to shit like this.    Economics and tax law is well beyond the grasp of your tiny little pea brain. 

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fattyflattie

fattyflattie 4640

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Posted
4 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

Except I am one of the smartest people in the room, especially when it comes to shit like this.    Economics and tax law is well beyond the grasp of your tiny little pea brain. 

Yes, I remember when you learned that options trading existed, like 9 months ago.  

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Judge Roybeanbag

Judge Roybeanbag 11856

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1 hour ago, jimmyjazz said:

Using your numbers, it's more like $1,600 per month left over after savings and PITI.

Of course, the thing that gets sacrificed is savings.

Oh, and if you do save, say in a savings account or money market so you can access those funds, you get taxed on any .005 percent gains you might make, in real time.  Not like borrowing against unrealized gains.   

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31989

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Posted
7 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

You’re so enlightened now that you no longer live in Houston and are a New Yorker. Smartest person in the room, per usual. Go fuck yourself 

Look, dude.

You got a marketable degree from a reasonable cost university.  That first part puts you in the top 10% of Americans right there.  Most Americans can't earn an engineering degree.  Period.  You were born with that aptitude and put in the work, so good on you, but that opportunity just isn't available to the vast, vast majority of Americans.  

That it didn't put you deep in debt is a double bonus.

You found yourself a job that paid well, and then very well early on and started socking it away.  Most people have to wait 10 years or longer to make six figures, if they ever do.  And by then, they have families and all that entails.  

You did a bunch of stuff right, but without your aptitudes, and being born in Texas in a good time, when the University was cheap and the job-gettin was good, you'd be fucked like chuck, likely as not.

Count your blessings.  Be grateful.

And also understand that you are the upper 10% and the other 90% are having a much tougher time.  It may be their fault, maybe it's just bad luck.  Maybe they actually suck.  But are you really comfortable just saying to hell with them so the rich can stay really fucking rich?

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PenelopeWitherspoon

PenelopeWitherspoon 19279

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Posted
1 minute ago, fattyflattie said:

Yes I remember you consult for O&G commodities, right?  Fuck it, I’ll dig back thru the threads on the clock tomorrow. 

I never traded STOCK options on my own account.  Hell, for years, I was prohibited from owning stock due to independence rules.  I was interested in learning more about strategies.  I have probably forgotten more about options than you ever knew, but as I did not TRADE them, I wanted to learn from people that did.  That does not mean I didn't know what options were you complete moron.

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PenelopeWitherspoon

PenelopeWitherspoon 19279

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Posted
7 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Look, dude.

You got a marketable degree from a reasonable cost university.  That first part puts you in the top 10% of Americans right there.  Most Americans can't earn an engineering degree.  Period.  You were born with that aptitude and put in the work, so good on you, but that opportunity just isn't available to the vast, vast majority of Americans.  

That it didn't put you deep in debt is a double bonus.

You found yourself a job that paid well, and then very well early on and started socking it away.  Most people have to wait 10 years or longer to make six figures, if they ever do.  And by then, they have families and all that entails.  

You did a bunch of stuff right, but without your aptitudes, and being born in Texas in a good time, when the University was cheap and the job-gettin was good, you'd be fucked like chuck, likely as not.

Count your blessings.  Be grateful.

And also understand that you are the upper 10% and the other 90% are having a much tougher time.  It may be their fault, maybe it's just bad luck.  Maybe they actually suck.  But are you really comfortable just saying to hell with them so the rich can stay really fucking rich?

And he is saying that when he is not really that rich to begin with.  There is doing well, and there is Elon Musk/Jeff Bezos/Billionaires.  

Let's look at the billionaire tax this way.  The Walton family made a shitload of money from Walmart.  Walmart vastly underpays its workers.  It offers no benefits.  There are a shitload of Walmart workers who need assistance.  The government has been subsidizing Walmarts workers. So, the Walton family wealth is due to investment made by American taxpayers.  They should pay that back.  This isn't a hard fucking concept to grasp.

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fattyflattie

fattyflattie 4640

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Posted
1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

Look, dude.

You got a marketable degree from a reasonable cost university.  That first part puts you in the top 10% of Americans right there.  Most Americans can't earn an engineering degree.  Period.  You were born with that aptitude and put in the work, so good on you, but that opportunity just isn't available to the vast, vast majority of Americans.  

That it didn't put you deep in debt is a double bonus.

You found yourself a job that paid well, and then very well early on and started socking it away.  Most people have to wait 10 years or longer to make six figures, if they ever do.  And by then, they have families and all that entails.  

You did a bunch of stuff right, but without your aptitudes, and being born in Texas in a good time, when the University was cheap and the job-gettin was good, you'd be fucked like chuck, likely as not.

Count your blessings.  Be grateful.

And also understand that you are the upper 10% and the other 90% are having a much tougher time.  It may be their fault, maybe it's just bad luck.  Maybe they actually suck.  But are you really comfortable just saying to hell with them so the rich can stay really fucking rich?

A lot to unpack there but I’m not an engineer, though my peers are.  I got a bit ahead because I chose to put things off while living in some of the shittiest places on earth (and some nice ones). I’m sure you can dream up what it’s like to be gone from your wife and kids ~50% of the time. I also came into O&G in ‘09, not by any means a great time.  But lots of people work hard, and many of my peers have done a lot better than, me so this shit isn’t some luck.  

Im not saying to hell with anyone, I just believe things should have a semblance of fairness.  You want to tax these rich fucks at 33% have at it.  You want to cap them at a billion dollars, I don’t agree, but fuck it do it.  But at some point everyone should put something in the pot.  And sales tax and gasoline tax isn’t going to cut it.  I pay 12k in fucking taxes and my kids go to the same school as people that don’t pay 12k a year in rent.  Fair?  Shit is borked and the “middle” whatever that is, is being fucked the hardest.  
 

 

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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12271

Posted
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3 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

A lot to unpack there but I’m not an engineer, though my peers are.  I got a bit ahead because I chose to put things off while living in some of the shittiest places on earth (and some nice ones). I’m sure you can dream up what it’s like to be gone from your wife and kids ~50% of the time. I also came into O&G in ‘09, not by any means a great time.  But lots of people work hard, and many of my peers have done a lot better than, me so this shit isn’t some luck.  

Im not saying to hell with anyone, I just believe things should have a semblance of fairness.  You want to tax these rich fucks at 33% have at it.  You want to cap them at a billion dollars, I don’t agree, but fuck it do it.  But at some point everyone should put something in the pot.  And sales tax and gasoline tax isn’t going to cut it.  I pay 12k in fucking taxes and my kids go to the same school as people that don’t pay 12k a year in rent.  Fair?  Shit is borked and the “middle” whatever that is, is being fucked the hardest.  
 

 

If you are being serious here you really should take some time to reflect on this post and try to realize how dumb it is and how wrong you really are. Seriously, it will do you much good to figure that out.

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fattyflattie

fattyflattie 4640

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Posted
2 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

Walmart vastly underpays its workers.

Does it?  What is the value of an 80 yo greeter?   What is the value of the person who can’t be bothered to answer where something can be located?  
 

3 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

The government has been subsidizing Walmarts workers. So, the Walton family wealth is due to investment made by American taxpayers.  They should pay that back.  This isn't a hard fucking concept to grasp.

What happens if Waltons say fuck you, we’ve got our 50b, you deal with the 2.3m workers were laying off tomorrow?  I’d say they have a partnership with America to keep people that are almost unemployable elsewhere, employed. Especially the people in the little shit towns they prop up. 

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Judge Roybeanbag

Judge Roybeanbag 11856

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, fattyflattie said:

A lot to unpack there but I’m not an engineer, though my peers are.  I got a bit ahead because I chose to put things off while living in some of the shittiest places on earth (and some nice ones). I’m sure you can dream up what it’s like to be gone from your wife and kids ~50% of the time. I also came into O&G in ‘09, not by any means a great time.  But lots of people work hard, and many of my peers have done a lot better than, me so this shit isn’t some luck.  

Im not saying to hell with anyone, I just believe things should have a semblance of fairness.  You want to tax these rich fucks at 33% have at it.  You want to cap them at a billion dollars, I don’t agree, but fuck it do it.  But at some point everyone should put something in the pot.  And sales tax and gasoline tax isn’t going to cut it.  I pay 12k in fucking taxes and my kids go to the same school as people that don’t pay 12k a year in rent.  Fair?  Shit is borked and the “middle” whatever that is, is being fucked the hardest.  
 

 

You pay $12k in taxes?  Assume you mean just property tax? Let those who pay less in the pot remain uneducated, and unable to provide for themselves. Where does that get you?  

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PenelopeWitherspoon

PenelopeWitherspoon 19279

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

A lot to unpack there but I’m not an engineer, though my peers are.  I got a bit ahead because I chose to put things off while living in some of the shittiest places on earth (and some nice ones). I’m sure you can dream up what it’s like to be gone from your wife and kids ~50% of the time. I also came into O&G in ‘09, not by any means a great time.  But lots of people work hard, and many of my peers have done a lot better than, me so this shit isn’t some luck.  

Im not saying to hell with anyone, I just believe things should have a semblance of fairness.  You want to tax these rich fucks at 33% have at it.  You want to cap them at a billion dollars, I don’t agree, but fuck it do it.  But at some point everyone should put something in the pot.  And sales tax and gasoline tax isn’t going to cut it.  I pay 12k in fucking taxes and my kids go to the same school as people that don’t pay 12k a year in rent.  Fair?  Shit is borked and the “middle” whatever that is, is being fucked the hardest.  
 

 

So is it fair that sales taxes and gasoline taxes are a higher percentage for the poor than they are to you?  Consumption taxes are, by their nature, regressive.

The truth of the matter is, most of us here are in the working class.  As many of us there are that do well, most of us are employees.  And we get fucked by the system.  The reality is that Reagan and team pushed trickle down economics.  Let corporations keep more, and that will mean more, well paying jobs.  But it doesn't.  It is all a fucking lie.  Why should the workers income continue to be taxed at higher rates as a percentage of income than corporations?  Why should corporations get deductions for depreciation for owned assets like buildings or rent, but individual taxpayers do not?  

We absolutely should.  No single person should be taxed on money that goes to housing, food, or medical care.  

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fattyflattie

fattyflattie 4640

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Posted
Just now, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

So is it fair that sales taxes and gasoline taxes are a higher percentage for the poor than they are to you?  Consumption taxes are, by their nature, regressive.

The truth of the matter is, most of us here are in the working class.  As many of us there are that do well, most of us are employees.  And we get fucked by the system.  The reality is that Reagan and team pushed trickle down economics.  Let corporations keep more, and that will mean more, well paying jobs.  But it doesn't.  It is all a fucking lie.  Why should the workers income continue to be taxed at higher rates as a percentage of income than corporations?  Why should corporations get deductions for depreciation for owned assets like buildings or rent, but individual taxpayers do not?  

We absolutely should.  No single person should be taxed on money that goes to housing, food, or medical care.  

I don’t disagree with anything here other than your first sentence. 

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PenelopeWitherspoon

PenelopeWitherspoon 19279

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Posted
1 minute ago, fattyflattie said:

Does it?  What is the value of an 80 yo greeter?   What is the value of the person who can’t be bothered to answer where something can be located?  
 

What happens if Waltons say fuck you, we’ve got our 50b, you deal with the 2.3m workers were laying off tomorrow?  I’d say they have a partnership with America to keep people that are almost unemployable elsewhere, employed. Especially the people in the little shit towns they prop up. 

Those little shit towns they prop up?  You mean those towns where they come in, destroy family owned small businesses, and then move, building another store, leaving a blight of a building behind?  You mean by coming into town with Chinese made crap and undercutting those mom and pop stores who might have stock from similar small businesses?!?  You mean that Wal-mart?

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fattyflattie

fattyflattie 4640

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Posted
1 minute ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

Those little shit towns they prop up?  You mean those towns where they come in, destroy family owned small businesses, and then move, building another store, leaving a blight of a building behind?  You mean by coming into town with Chinese made crap and undercutting those mom and pop stores who might have stock from similar small businesses?!?  You mean that Wal-mart?

I’m not saying that doesn’t happen, because it absolutely does.  But they also are in towns with no business, and employ everyone. I just spent 6 weeks in such a place.  Rural TN. Godforsaken. 

2 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

So, consumption taxes are not regressive?

It definitely is.  I don’t know why the percentage of my income or wealth comparatively matters to it, or how you would fix that to make it “fair”?  But open to hearing about it.  I’ll assume that since we don’t want to fuck the poor, and the billionaires dgaf, it’ll be another middle class burden.  We are tremendously undertaxed in gasoline tax, anyhow. 

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PenelopeWitherspoon

PenelopeWitherspoon 19279

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Posted
Just now, fattyflattie said:

I’m not saying that doesn’t happen, because it absolutely does.  But they also are in towns with no business, and employ everyone. I just spent 6 weeks in such a place.  Rural TN. Godforsaken. 

It definitely is.  I don’t know why the percentage of my income or wealth comparatively matters to it, or how you would fix that to make it “fair”?  But open to hearing about it.  I’ll assume that since we don’t want to fuck the poor, and the billionaires dgaf, it’ll be another middle class burden.  We are tremendously undertaxed in gasoline tax, anyhow. 

I agree.  The gasoline tax hasn't changed in years.  And honestly, it would be better to do a mileage tax rather than a gas tax, since the gas tax was meant to be a way to pay for the interstate highway system.  And miles is what causes road damage (partially).  

You are right, the billionaires do not give a fuck.  Which is why there should be a better system in play.  I would support a tax system that treated corporations and individuals the same.  We all get deductions for federal purposes for taxes paid (no SALT cap), including sales taxes, housing payments (for those that own, you would get depreciation and your interest and for those that rent, your rent payment), as well as other basic expenses (food, healthcare) and expenses that should be encouraged (donations to charitable organizations) as well as deductions for savings because that should be encouraged).  Transportation is interesting.  I think you could encourage certain behaviors through the tax code that you might not be able to do elsewhere.  So that would be something I would like to see.  

Then you have your net income, and you are taxed on a percentage of that.  

We still have a progressive tax structure, and the top rate should be 40%.  That 40% is for those individuals with a net income of over 1M.  I personally think corporations should be on the same schedule.  But I could see that going over like a lead balloon.  

Also, capital gains are taxed as ordinary income.  That is the key kicker there.

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