need some surly market research re: reality/docu-series tv

[henrygandorf 29,191]

surly - i need some general feedback for those who watch and enjoy (or who have spouses that watch and enjoy) reality shows and docu-series (not so much one-off documentaries).

i'm talking about everything from the bachelor and survivor to kardashian and real world spinoffs.  what type of shit do you like, not like, find yourself liking against your will/guilty pleasures? 

one of the main things i'm trying to gain info on is format and competition/non-comp.  a competition can be anything season-long from amazing race or great food truck race to weekly shows like beat bobby flay and storage wars.  it also includes dating/marriage shows like bachelor or its many spinoffs.

non-comp can include staged shit like below deck or real housewives or whatever, or even home reno shows or real estate shit.  also can include treasure hunting shows - american pickers, pawn stars, antique roadshow.  also - how comfortable are you with the various degrees of "scripted/staged" shows?  for instance, i like pawn stars ok, and i don't care that it's staged.  i watch for the cool shit that gets brought in and i want to learn about what it is and how much it's worth.  i don't care about the negotiation or backstories of the family that owns the store.

generally, i'm trying to figure out what formats people like and why.  for competition, do you like to learn about the cast, even as they're possibly getting booted once per week?  would you prefer to learn less about their backstories?  would you prefer a season-long competition that keeps the same cast?  would you prefer subsequent seasons to feature the same cast, new cast, new hosts, new rules?

this project i'm working on is moving quickly and getting a little real, and we need to start making some decisions, mostly on structure and format, and i need some input from people who watch more reality than me, which is probably most people.  thanks in advance for what i'm certain will be a positive and productive roundtable discussion.  

 

 

[shadow_operative 15,932]

i watch The Challenge and Big Brother. i'm into it for the competition, manipulation, and messy people. i like rooting for/against people; heroes and villains and all that. in fact i think i enjoy rooting against villains/watching them lose even more than i like watching my favorite competitors succeed. i like having people do battle 1 v 1, whether it's physical, trivia, puzzles, obstacle courses, whatever. i like it when my shows manipulate the rules to turn people on each other/make them distrust each other. The Challenge is definitely the best at this. not all of their twists work, but they go for it with the twists every season, and when it pays, it usually pays pretty big. 

end of the day though, it's about the characters. BB has fallen off in recent years by casting aspiring models who've never seen the show as opposed to people who know the show and have a desire to zealously play the game. they fixed that this last season. on The Challenge i love rooting for CT, and rooting against Fessy. Kaycee may be a great competitor, but she's boring as hell and really doesn't enhance the show. that would be my biggest thing- once you have a viable format, it's all about the actual people. gotta have those people to root for/against, and probably one or two people who bring genuine comic relief.

Edited November 2, 2021 by shadow_operative

[NeverMarryAStripper 21,907]

I only like really like reality shows where the contestants have to solve things.  I'm really not much into people manipulating each other.  I really like the show that was on for one season in 2006 called Treasure Hunters.  The teams had to solve puzzles and actually had to have some knowledge and ability.  I'll watch The Amazing Race on occasion because it's a little bit like that.  Other than that I might watch some shows where I think I might learn something like a home renovation show or Antique Roadshow.  I don't find stupid people doing stupid things very interesting. 

[henrygandorf 29,191]

so far this feedback is incredibly perfect and exactly what i'm looking for.  keep it coming.

[immamac 42,854]

Best show I've watched in forever was White Lotus from HBO. Just make a reality show like that.

[henrygandorf 29,191]

1 minute ago, immamac said:

Best show I've watched in forever was White Lotus from HBO. Just make a reality show like that.

less helpful.

[UTPhil2006 3,807]

21 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

i watch The Challenge and Big Brother. i'm into it for the competition, manipulation, and messy people. i like rooting for/against people; heroes and villains and all that. in fact i think i enjoy rooting against villains/watching them lose even more than i like watching my favorite competitors succeed. i like having people do battle 1 v 1, whether it's physical, trivia, puzzles, obstacle courses, whatever. i like it when my shows manipulate the rules to turn people on each other/make them distrust each other. The Challenge is definitely the best at this. not all of their twists work, but they go for it with the twists every season, and when it pays, it usually pays pretty big. 

end of the day though, it's about the characters. BB has fallen off in recent years by casting aspiring models who've never seen the show as opposed to people who know the show and have a desire to zealously play the game. they fixed that this last season. on The Challenge i love rooting for CT, and rooting against Fessy. Kaycee may be a great competitor, but she's boring as hell and really doesn't enhance the show. that would be my biggest thing- once you have a viable format, it's all about the actual people. gotta have those people to root for/against, and probably one or two people who bring genuine comic relief.

This is pretty much where I'm at.  Casting I would say is more important than the premise of the show, it's pretty easy to set up the competition format, but if you've got a bunch of duds (BB19), Amazing Race from a couple seasons ago.  I want two sides of a house who genuinely hate each other.

As far as the staged side of things, Below Deck I think is interesting because it shows you things you wouldn't know about otherwise.  I don't need to see party down south or laguna shore, or some Lindsay Lohan show about a bar.  Show me stuff we normally wouldn't have access to learn about then add in booze and hot "actors" and there ya go.

[blacklab 11,939]

A while back I watched storage wars on a semi-regular basis. I'd set my tivo to record them then binge a few episodes every few weeks. I think I enjoyed the characters more than anything else. Barry always cracked me up because he was such a goofball. Darrell is a meat head idiot but I liked when he and Jarrod would fuck with Dave. Dave was an asshole and enjoyed being the bad guy. It ended up getting repetitive after a while which is probably why I stopped watching. Guessing what stuff was worth and then hearing the history was always good which is also what made antique roadshow so good.

Below deck is the only one I currently watch. I record them but yttv tends to delete them before I get a chance to watch. Not really sure why l like it. I think it may have to do with having been in the navy and seeing someone else suffer the mundane shit that we did like cleaning and getting a boat into port. The fact they have hot chicks always helps, and the train wrecks of the personal lives of the crew don't hurt either. They seem to be horrible at hiring people as they are always having to fire them and I hate the manufactured drama that this creates so I tend to fast forward through that shit.

[atomheartbevo 89,675]

I would argue that there is no finer documentary about Oklahoma and Florida than Tiger King.

[Celery Man 20,961]

Of the girl reality shows, Project Runway has always been the most enjoyable. Some cast drama, you start rooting for someone or hating someone, you see the thing coming together or not, and then the reveal where even if you know jack shit about fashion you can judge and be like “that Heidi Klum is an idiot wow” or “I am smart I liked the thing all the smart judges liked”

 

I like stuff where there’s a little bit of “learning” that’s helping deflect from just watching trashy people/human drama/even schadenfreude, and I like starting to pull for someone. I binged several seasons of Alone recently. I like the fat 42 year old from Temple or wherever talking about how he’s going to kill a bear with his bow and be out there for a year and then he rolls his ankle getting off of the helicopter and taps out. But I also like all the crazy stuff the more serious competitors have to do to survive, and when they start to lose it from just being alone or they’re doing ok but they can’t get enough calories or whatever.

 Love on the Spectrum another good one - learning about autism, the characters with all their quirks, some drama but it’s low stakes and just being “brooo stop talking about dinosaurs you can do it buddy “ . That’s one that could easily feel exploitative and bad but it feels sweet and nice.

[Go Pokes 979]

My wife and I watch way too much reality TV.  The thing we watch the least of are the ones where they contrive a situation just so they have something to do that week.  Gene Simmons old show was fucking terrible with this.  It's probably hard to make a contrived situation seem authentic, but that show didn't even seem like they tried.  I do like Jersey Shore, but mainly because I've been in it from the beginning and I think the guys can be pretty hilarious.  The women are worthless.  At least JS tries to make their contrived hijinks seem authentic by keeping them simple.  Housewives and Teen Moms look fucking awful and it's the one genre my wife fortunately isn't into.  

My favs are the competition shows mixed in with some drama like the Challenge, Survivor, and BB before it turned to shit.  Amazing Race was pretty good too.  The first reply summed it up pretty well.   Don't cast social media whores and cast real people who are fans of the show (or shows like it).  I think observing human behavior is my favorite part of reality shows though.  I just love watching clueless idiots who no self awareness get all huffy about something when they did the exact same thing the week before.   Also enjoy getting people's back stories.  It helps get invested in the cast.  

[orange dream 1,254]

some of the ones on train wreck families are good in an "I can't look away" sense...

someone needs to do a series on this chick and her family. Midwestern mom who has spent 500k to look like Barbie

 

Although, it's probably not your target demo but something that families can watch together would likely be a hit also.  I think one of the reasons Duck Dynasty was such a hit early on was that everyone from grandmas to 6 year olds could watch and get a laugh or two out of it.

 

[henrygandorf 29,191]

this stuff has all been very helpful, thanks gang.

[Prepuce of Doom 21,074]

I don't watch any reality show (closest thing is probably Impractical Jokers or the occasional 10 minutes of Wipeout) but I think a good and important hook is to have an Expert Level Agent of Chaos like Puck from the Real World 20 years ago or whenever that was. 

[Deej 76,798]

I enjoy North Woods Law and Lone Star Law. 

[blacklab 11,939]

there's two others that I forgot about that I love

blown away - glass blowing competition series on netflix. Both seasons had a cunt to root against and several people to root for. The train wrecks of people running out of time are always great. The finished pieces are amazing and it's fun to guess who will get best or last.

chef's table - I love how they go through the process that got the chef to where they are at, not pulling any punches about drugs/alcohol/business failures.

What both of these shows have in common is the asmr type feeling I get while watching the finished product. The cinematography of chef's table is some of the most wonderful I have ever seen and the artistry of the glass blowers is absolutely unreal.

If you haven't seen it the chef's table episode on Tootsie from Snow's you need to right now.
It is among the best things I've ever seen on tv

 

[immamac 42,854]

Best show ever on TV

[Neonmoon 38,129]

For competition shows, I like intense short competition and character reveal and backstory buildup/filler like Top Chef. I also liked Chopped for the same intense short competition but zero character. The same for British Bake Off, which is the same formula but with goofy British people. I think many of these shows live/die by the hosts sometimes. I like Tom, Gale, and Padma. I like Mary Berry and Paul Hollywood. But I hate most sweet food competitions, not because I hate sweets, but because the hosts are always weird and zaney, and everything is pastel colored. 

I’ve dated many girls over the years and watched many of these guilty pleasure shows. I feel the same about Project Runway, the hosts are what made the show. Heidi and Gunn were great. The contestants changed, but the hosts brought the character of the show and why people kept tuning in. Top Chef, Project Runway, British Bake Off are great because you like the hosts and like to judge the shit out of what the contestants create, like the judges do. 

Below Deck is watchable, it’s like the real world basically. The drama is mostly tame and everything resets each episode. It’s light drama and beautiful setting. The Real Housewives is a show I won’t fucking watch. No matter the city. I just candle women screaming at each other every episode for made up reasons. 

I never got into Big Brother, Survivor, Amazing Race. There are a shit ton of other ones. Deadliest Catch is great, but it dropped off once Phil died, he was the heart of the show. I’ve tried to watch similar shows like whatever east coast sword fishing, etc, but none of them have good characters. There are no hosts for these shows, so you need lovable characters. 

So you need to know, is it a host show or a character show. Competition shows need hosts people gravitate towards, and cookie cutter characters like  British Bake Off always have the young hot thing, the old guy, the green baker, the middle aged gay, the messy woman. Shows without hosts need characters that anchor the show. 

[atomheartbevo 89,675]

3 hours ago, henrygandorf said:

this stuff has all been very helpful, thanks gang.

So, like I said, Tiger King - love the batshittery.  Like the LEGO reality show (watch with my kid).

My wife loves the British reality shows - British Baking Show, etc..  She hates the shows where the hosts are shitting on everybody/working against the contestants.

We both hate the really scripted shit, and the artificial conflict.  Like the housewives show, etc. - those shows suck.

Edited November 3, 2021 by atomheartbevo

[Deej 76,798]

8 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

She hates the shows where the hosts are shitting on everybody/working against the contestants

That seems to be an American thing. Gordon Ramsey seems like a complete ass on his American series, but you watch any of his BBC stuff and damn if he isn't likeable and seeming like someone you'd want to hang out with. UK Kitchen Nightmares has heart. US Kitchen Nightmares...fuck that guy.

[henrygandorf 29,191]

1 minute ago, Deej said:

That seems to be an American thing. Gordon Ramsey seems like a complete ass on his American series, but you watch any of his BBC stuff and damn if he isn't likeable and seeming like someone you'd want to hang out with. UK Kitchen Nightmares has heart. US Kitchen Nightmares...fuck that guy.

funny, the wife loves masterchef, jr which is the only thing we watch ramsey on, and he's delightful (because they're children).  i do enjoy the gifs of him ripping into people from shows i don't watch though.

 

[Deej 76,798]

4 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

funny, the wife loves masterchef, jr which is the only thing we watch ramsey on, and he's delightful (because they're children).  i do enjoy the gifs of him ripping into people from shows i don't watch though.

 

They know Gordon being an ass to amateur chefs probably isn't good for ratings.

[atomheartbevo 89,675]

21 minutes ago, Deej said:

That seems to be an American thing. 

It is.  We enjoy British reality shows - we've watched all 275+ episodes of Time Team, we'll watch the restoration shows, we'll watch their version of House Hunters, etc..  Those are nice little escapes and you learn something.  And a lot of their hosts, you would actually want to hang out with and have a beer.

If I want conflict, it's gotta be real.  Tiger King - putting aside that one ended up in prison, and another should be, put 3 or 4 of the main characters in a room together and at least one will end up dead.  But it can't be like the real housewives shows.  If I want that kind of shit, I'll get on Nextdoor.

Edited November 3, 2021 by atomheartbevo

[mchookem 16,336]

i loved The Amazing Race for many seasons. loved the adventure, the difficulty, enjoyed when the contestants would really embrace other cultures, and when it would become incredibly uncomfortable, seeing how different people would handle it. but...i lost more and more interest as the teams became more 'famous' and contrived themselves - contestants from other reality shows, NBA wives,  etc. i preferred when it was regular people, but i realize i am probably the minority. teams like Danny and Oswald, Chip and Kim, Blake and Paige, Colin and Christi (GOATs imo lol)

we also like competition cooking shows, everything from BBF to Hell's Kitchen. 

def prefer more straight competition than scheming/lying type. 

haven't watched a 'real life' type show since probably The Osbournes 😄

[Tom 2,959]

There are only a few reality shows I've enjoyed watching.  The main one is probably Life After Lockup.  I mainly enjoy it for the complete absurdity that a group of men thought they would find love by becoming pen pals or by using a dating service with inmates, followed it up by giving them a bunch of money, and then ending up shocked when it turns into a complete shit show after their release.

I'm sure a certain percentage of it is scripted.  I'm not sure how much but I'm under the assumption all of the reality shows are at least somewhat scripted.  I can somewhat suspend disbelief and pretend it's mostly real.  I still find it entertaining regardless.  Really the more absurd and humiliating, the better.

I've liked 90 day Fiance for mostly the same reasons -- the absurdity and the cringe/hard to watch situations people put themselves in.

60 Days In is the last one I watched. (Apparently I like shows related to jail/prison.)  I guess I like the tension and build up of seeing which ones are going to succeed and fit in and do what they're tasked with doing in the jails and which ones are going to fold or get pushed around by other inmates or end up having to tap out.

[henrygandorf 29,191]

20 minutes ago, Tom said:

I'm not sure how much but I'm under the assumption all of the reality shows are at least somewhat scripted.

you wouldn't believe.

[Grade of D as in David 13,253]

Could we just get a reboot of ggw but with some backstory on the girls and maybe a couple of follow up segments, sort of a where are they now.

[orange dream 1,254]

9 hours ago, mchookem said:

i loved The Amazing Race for many seasons. loved the adventure, the difficulty, enjoyed when the contestants would really embrace other cultures, and when it would become incredibly uncomfortable, seeing how different people would handle it. but...i lost more and more interest as the teams became more 'famous' and contrived themselves - contestants from other reality shows, NBA wives,  etc. i preferred when it was regular people, but i realize i am probably the minority. teams like Danny and Oswald, Chip and Kim, Blake and Paige, Colin and Christi (GOATs imo lol)

 

I'm a terrible person but one of my favorite ever teams on Amazing race were the sisters, one of whom happened to be a midget...

 

[cactusflinthead 27,598]

Antiques Roadshow and Pawn Stars: the backstory either kicks in my schadenfreude when it isn't nearly valuable as they thought or it is an interesting tale of how they got it. I do not give a shit about dishes. I could not possibly care less about some ugly ass plate.

Guns, books, instruments, other weapons oh hell yeah. The addition of rapid assessment of the items has been great. Zero background. This is what it's worth. Also seeing the follow up and price change is cool when it's a repeat. I have tracked down some items to see what happened later. 

Hell's Kitchen: 

Here I do want backstory. How did you get in the business? Where are you from? Why are you such a whiny bitch? Oh you're vegan and won't taste it? Well, you are not gonna be here long are you?

 

 

[mchookem 16,336]

38 minutes ago, orange dream said:

I'm a terrible person but one of my favorite ever teams on Amazing race were the sisters, one of whom happened to be a midget...

 

yes! the fights they had with Colin and Christi were epic! i remember one fight at an airport in Africa, the taller one screaming some obscenities in Armenian at Colin and spitting on the ground like an old world gypsy curse or something. my god she was furious 🤣

[mchookem 16,336]

also...i don't seek them out, but if i happen upon either Hoarders or Intervention i tend to get sucked in pretty easily. obviously that's the trainwreck effect.

[mininghorn88 2,293]

I watch this type of programming in spurts.  My main interests in watching these types of shows is to learn something of value or some interesting trivia.  Really do not watch any of the competitive type shows unless it is a cooking related show; not so much for the competition, contestants or host, but to see if there is some interesting bit that I can apply to my cooking. Of the "cooking" related shows that I most commonly watch would be Diners, Drive-ins and Dives.

I absolutely cannot stand the series that profit on drama or stupidity.  Do not want to watch a bunch of women (or men) scream at each other or other "youngsters" have drama in their lives.  There is enough stupidity in the world already without watching it purposefully on TV.  I do not suffer fools.  I used to watch American Chopper in the beginning when they would actually show a lot of the builds but then it became too dramatic for my taste.

My favorites are the ones that have some historical or educational significance.  The British have produced several of these that focus on archeology or some other historical events.  PBS has a few that I enjoy catching from time-to-time like Antiques Roadshow, History Detectives, Finding Your Roots.  I will also catch American Pickers.  These types of shows provide an interesting backstory on people, places and things.  Not sure if Aerial America fits in but it is a nice production as well.  Another one to watch is How It's Made.

[Apep 645]

Haven’t watched reality tv in years, but it was always something to watch with my wife (or ex-wife years ago). Storage Wars and Flipping Vegas because of the characters. Just about any kind of shit when I was young, from the Simple Life to the Surreal Life. Again, it was because of the characters. Switched to YouTube for reaction vids, primarily the Irish Try channel, Reactistan, or various vocal coaches or other musicians. It was the characters. 

My only advice would be to get it at or under 20 minutes and stream it. My wife and I don’t have time for binging most days, unless it is just background noise.

[atomheartbevo 89,675]

1 minute ago, mininghorn88 said:

My favorites are the ones that have some historical or educational significance.  The British have produced several of these that focus on archeology or some other historical events. 

Time Team (British version).  280 episodes.  It's amazing and even the one or two episodes where they found nothing, were funny/interesting.  There's several seasons on Amazon Prime (through IMDB TV with ads or whatever).

For a while, maybe 10 or 15 years ago, PBS and BBC were doing some series where the took a bunch of people and had them live as folks did back during certain eras.  Those were entertaining and informative as well.

[atomheartbevo 89,675]

18 hours ago, henrygandorf said:

generally, i'm trying to figure out what formats people like and why.  for competition, do you like to learn about the cast, even as they're possibly getting booted once per week?  would you prefer to learn less about their backstories?  would you prefer a season-long competition that keeps the same cast?  would you prefer subsequent seasons to feature the same cast, new cast, new hosts, new rules?

I'm curious what existing reality TV shows you all have looked to for inspiration.

Like reality shows where you have amateurs/non-professionals doing something, and the audience follows along (like cooking shows or the housewife shows), or where professionals are doing something and the audience follows along (like the Formula 1 series on Netflix, Time Team on BBC, etc.).

[mininghorn88 2,293]

23 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Time Team (British version).  280 episodes.  It's amazing and even the one or two episodes where they found nothing, were funny/interesting.  There's several seasons on Amazon Prime (through IMDB TV with ads or whatever).

For a while, maybe 10 or 15 years ago, PBS and BBC were doing some series where the took a bunch of people and had them live as folks did back during certain eras.  Those were entertaining and informative as well.

Yes.  I had forgotten about that series. I enjoyed it as well.

[Celery Man 20,961]

10 hours ago, Tom said:

60 Days In is the last one I watched. (Apparently I like shows related to jail/prison.)  I guess I like the tension and build up of seeing which ones are going to succeed and fit in and do what they're tasked with doing in the jails and which ones are going to fold or get pushed around by other inmates or end up having to tap out.

I watched a little bit of 60 days in (a season and a half) after I went through Alone (this was in my "my pregnant wife is going to bed at 6pm I'm going to play video games and watch shitty TV all night for a while before my life turns into dad stuff" phase). I think I eventually got turned off of that show because they just fucking dragged shit out forever with no payoff - teasing a scene of some big drama that's about to happen for an episode and a half and then it's just like.. the dumbass substitute teacher put a towel on the camera because he's stupid and now he's in solitary, OK.  But really, the only thing I was super interested in on that show was the mystery behind wtf was going on in the homelives of the veteran from season 1 and his wife in season 2. He goes into jail voluntarily for 60 days with a like.. 2 month old infant at home, gets back, and then immediately she goes into jail voluntarily for 60 days while he's at home with the just fucking born little baby their child. I don't think there's even a payout in that show? I'm sure they're getting paid something but it's not... you're walking away with $500k if you make it 60 days or whatever, clearly there's something going on that they aren't talking about or these people just generally can't stand each other and aren't interested in being new parents.

Anyways, your post reminded me of that which bugged me. Wtf.

[pied06 228]

I am probably spend too much time watching reality TV.  Was in college when the Real World and Road Rules came out and watched every episode.  As I got older, I've faded on those and haven't watched MTV for 15 years.

Loved Survivor at the start but am probably more a casual watcher.  It's hard to keep that fresh I guess.  I've found it easy to FF through the challenges, and only go back if they reference something happened that is important.  

Bachelor series, wife watches so I watch.  If I miss some, that's fine.  Only thing that interests me much is there's a character aI really like or is a real villain.  The rest I'm surfing the ipad.  

Watched American Idol since Kelly and Justin and will probably always watch.  Started America's Got Talent, and watch for the variety.  

We record and watch a TON of HGTV shows.  Spend time paying attention to ones that I like the hosts, like Hometown.  Love it or List it is nice background noise.  Really enjoy the competition ones where they have hosts from various shows compete against each other. 

We watch Great Foodtruck Race and The Amazing Race but seems like those have taken a ton of time (especially TAR) to have new seasons.  

We record and watch International Househunters every night going to sleep.  

 

Simple/easy to follow predictable shows for HGTV/Food Network, but really pay attention to cross show competitions.

 

More competition reality shows, old habits die hard(Survivor/TAR/AI)

 

 

[henrygandorf 29,191]

10 hours ago, Grade of D as in David said:

Could we just get a reboot of ggw but with some backstory on the girls and maybe a couple of follow up segments, sort of a where are they now.

no reboot but there are at least 3 docs or docu-series coming soon. 

[Celery Man 20,961]

20 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

I watched a little bit of 60 days in (a season and a half) after I went through Alone (this was in my "my pregnant wife is going to bed at 6pm I'm going to play video games and watch shitty TV all night for a while before my life turns into dad stuff" phase). I think I eventually got turned off of that show because they just fucking dragged shit out forever with no payoff - teasing a scene of some big drama that's about to happen for an episode and a half and then it's just like.. the dumbass substitute teacher put a towel on the camera because he's stupid and now he's in solitary, OK.  But really, the only thing I was super interested in on that show was the mystery behind wtf was going on in the homelives of the veteran from season 1 and his wife in season 2. He goes into jail voluntarily for 60 days with a like.. 2 month old infant at home, gets back, and then immediately she goes into jail voluntarily for 60 days while he's at home with the just fucking born little baby their child. I don't think there's even a payout in that show? I'm sure they're getting paid something but it's not... you're walking away with $500k if you make it 60 days or whatever, clearly there's something going on that they aren't talking about or these people just generally can't stand each other and aren't interested in being new parents.

Anyways, your post reminded me of that which bugged me. Wtf.

thinking about this more, I think broadly one of the things (apart from teasing drama without payoff) that turned me off of this show was that you don't really know why anyone is doing it. They play it super close to the vest for whatever reason what it is that they are paying these people - no mention of a prize and everyone is either like "my brother is in jail so I want to know what it's like" or "I'm a postal worker from dover PA and I want to prove to myself that I can do it", both of which are obviously... not the whole story or complete bullshit. Every single reality show is largely horseshit, and we know this, and there's a willingness to kinda set that aside, but 60 Days In is comparable with later seasons of Undercover Boss in how fucking hard you have to try to pretend to not know that everything they're telling you is bullshit.

I would love to see an episode of Undercover Boss where every employee is just befriending the poorly disguised boss on the famous reality show, going on and on about how tough it is being a single parent living a hardscrabble life and my dad just died in that train explosion and let me tell you about my kids' dyslexia and the thing that would make it better would be a new dodge charger, raiders season tickets, and a check for $150k made out to cash.

[orange dream 1,254]

I will say add while the ongoing progressive competition type of shows (bachelor, survivor, hell's kitchen, Idol) can be highly engaging I also tend to either completely consume a season or ignore completely.  The House Hunters, Survivorman, Undercover Boss 🤣 or even family behind the scenes shows I'm more apt to check in on periodically even if I haven't been watching the whole season.

Edited November 3, 2021 by orange dream

[Guest]

Survivor/Big Brother watcher, and they are weighing on me specifically because they seem to focus so much on the social/cultural aspects recently to the detriment of the game.

I think putting 20 people in a house for 90 days or setting them on a deserted island to compete is interesting enough in of itself. I feel like the shows have gotten to where they just seem to think that's boring and the audience really wants to know about what it's like to be a minority playing the game. To me, it's a human experience. Turning it into commentary of race/gender/orientation seems incredibly boring and pandering.

Same thing with game shows. I do not care in the slightest people's backstories. I want to see those balls drop on The Wall and see how much money they win.

There have also gotten to be too many twists in the older shows that frankly make things confusing. I'd love to go back to "Survivor: Classic"

Can't stand other reality shows as they just manufacture drama and "feel" so scripted and fake. We bought a house to renovate, but oh my god, a floor joist is rotted! This could ruin everything! Turns out it was no big deal.

One exception is that I do enjoy the "daydream" aspect of International House Hunters type shows, although I actually watch them sparingly.

[AUS-97HORN 11,765]

My only guilty pleasure in recent years is The Challenge.    i like the heros and villains, I like cunts being cunts and being called out for being cunts, and cunts calling a jihad on the people who dared to call them cunts.

what I absolutley totally fucking despise and I fast forward through all the time, is the "fake fight" shit.   and I am not talking about  a hollywood fight scene where a punch is thrown and made to look like it hit.

Im talking about 2-8 people just talking on the couch, in the pool, at the gym,  someone makes an offhand remark about their "friend" or enemy or alliance member, really doesnt matter, but somehow that simple non-issue statement in 3 mins has turned into a clearly contrived fight.

 

and Ive realized over the last 10 years of the show that the people fighting are the ones who are most often active on social media because they see any screen time at all as a reason to help build their social media presence.  

I fucking hate that shit.   

 

Give me natural conflict  (Bananas getting WORKED and worn by CT 11 years ago is the best and most obvious example)

CT, Bananas, Sarah, Laurel all had or have a strong following presence, and they arent purposely letting themselves get into stupid shouting matches -it still happens to them, usually because its one of the "SOCIAL MEDIA WHORES" who pursue and drag them into an altercation.

[Jive Turkey 12,603]

i like reality shows where the contestants have talent.  Great British Baking Show is the only reality show i'm addicted to right now, but i do swing by The Voice on Monday nights, and we'll check out Chopped occasionally.  and i've been a sucker for the Project Runway marathon during Christmas in the past.  i like competition shows where people have to display their ability under pressure.

i'm not a big fan of voyeur reality shows where you watch people allegedly being themselves.  i used to be, but then people started acting for the camera, and it became contrived and boring.  first season of Jersey Shore was greatness.  they were just being themselves and it was a legitimately good look at that group of people.  but then they became self aware of their celebrity, and it was meh.  a lot of those types of shows have short shelf lives.  competition shows are better because you can recycle a different cast of contestants every year and you don't get tired of the people.

Edited November 3, 2021 by Jive Turkey

[RPM 26,322]

An Americanized version of Clarkson's Farm. City slickers forced to go off grid. Farm to table dinners would be fun. Pass the veal, please.

[henrygandorf 29,191]

2 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

I'm curious what existing reality TV shows you all have looked to for inspiration.

Like reality shows where you have amateurs/non-professionals doing something, and the audience follows along (like cooking shows or the housewife shows), or where professionals are doing something and the audience follows along (like the Formula 1 series on Netflix, Time Team on BBC, etc.).

our show has a very specific backdrop/subject.  what we've been toiling with is whether to make it more of a docu-series focused on the lives of our participants or whether to make it a competition show of some sort (weekly, season-long, elimination), while still getting to know them.

better put, we're wondering if a format exists where we can structure it as a competition show but still leave room for personal stories, backstories, etc.  sounds like we can, and that's what we were hoping for.

our show will have non-professionals as the primary characters but will come across professionals along the way for various reasons. 

as for specific inspiration or comps, we've looked at a lot of different shows.  the way we originally drew it up was kind of a cross-section of several existing shows, but was kind of in its own space.  as much as development people want to pretend they're looking for "new" and "groundbreaking" ideas, that's a fairy tale.  if they don't have existing successful comps to hold up, it will go nowhere.

they want a property they can turn into a brand that can go multiple seasons and have spinoff potential.  we're zeroing in on that, which is why things have started to move quickly.

[Macanudo 12,979]

2 hours ago, Apep said:

My only advice would be to get it at or under 20 minutes and stream it. My wife and I don’t have time for binging most days, unless it is just background noise.

Adding to this, crisp editing with less repetition.   It drives me nuts when there is a lead up to the commercial break and then we get an unnecessary rehash of the previous segment at the beginning of the next one.   Also, don't tease something that won't happen until 10 or 15 or 20 minutes later.   Fuck it, tone down the overall teasing entirely.   Let the story tells itself without overly manufactured drama. 

I also really enjoy the shows that give something of interest with the backstory; i.e. Storage Wars, Pawn Stars, Antique Roadshow.    For the 1st two, the characters were all right but I didn't care for the contrived "bad blood" or aw shucks idiocy (Chumley from Pawn Stars).    If the person really is that stupid, ok but don't ask them to act in a way that is not really their personality or intelligence level.   

Don't have vapid people who are just looking to be famous as characters.   Find stories and tell them.   I can't fucking stand shows like Big Brother, Real Housewives, Chrisley Knows Best, etc. because while train wrecks can be fun to stop an look at once or twice eventually the "famous for being famous" crowd is just stupid.   I know I'm in the minority because otherwise shows like that and the Kardashians wouldn't make it.

Another show that I don't think I've seen mentioned is Dirty Jobs with Mike Rowe.   I always thought this show was underrated.   That kind of show where we get to see how the rest of the country works was pretty cool.

One more show that I want to mention....  The Jo Koy: In His Element comedy special that he put out.   He went to the Philippines where his mother is from and performed but also had segments on the food and people.    I'd watch more of that kind of thing where genuinely interesting people do stuff like this.   Not a travelogue just like Rick Steve's but more like Bourdain did.  Fieri does it solely from a food perspective.    This is kind of in-line with what blacklab said about Chef's Table.   The place visited doesn't have to be a small town in Patagonia or Corsica.   It could be Telluride, CO in the summer to see a mountain town when it's not ski season.   Meet some locals...   What is the oldest business in town?   What is the history of the town, how did it come to be and what struggles did the town face in the past (economic, natural disaster, etc.)  

[henrygandorf 29,191]

13 minutes ago, Macanudo said:

Adding to this, crisp editing with less repetition.   It drives me nuts when there is a lead up to the commercial break and then we get an unnecessary rehash of the previous segment at the beginning of the next one.   Also, don't tease something that won't happen until 10 or 15 or 20 minutes later.   Fuck it, tone down the overall teasing entirely.   Let the story tells itself without overly manufactured drama.   

this is the type of thing that drives me crazy too, but will ultimately be out of our control if this thing goes.

14 minutes ago, Macanudo said:

I also really enjoy the shows that give something of interest with the backstory; i.e. Storage Wars, Pawn Stars, Antique Roadshow.    For the 1st two, the characters were all right but I didn't care for the contrived "bad blood" or aw shucks idiocy (Chumley from Pawn Stars).    If the person really is that stupid, ok but don't ask them to act in a way that is not really their personality or intelligence level.   

our show is more like this ^

14 minutes ago, Macanudo said:

Don't have vapid people who are just looking to be famous as characters.   Find stories and tell them.   I can't fucking stand shows like Big Brother, Real Housewives, Chrisley Knows Best, etc. because while train wrecks can be fun to stop an look at once or twice eventually the "famous for being famous" crowd is just stupid.   I know I'm in the minority because otherwise shows like that and the Kardashians wouldn't make it.

and not as much like this ^

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51 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

as much as development people want to pretend they're looking for "new" and "groundbreaking" ideas, that's a fairy tale.  if they don't have existing successful comps to hold up, it will go nowhere.

Reinvent the wheel, but make it look like a wheel.

[atomheartbevo 89,675]

2 hours ago, henrygandorf said:

better put, we're wondering if a format exists where we can structure it as a competition show but still leave room for personal stories, backstories, etc.  sounds like we can, and that's what we were hoping for.

Does the competition exist outside of the series?  Because I think that's where some of these competition shows get in trouble, when the competition only happens for the show.  Like Formula 1 could be considered a competition show, but the competition exists regardless of the film crew being there or not, and it's more about the audience peeking "behind the curtains" while the event is playing out.

And then you have Great British Baking Show - the competition exists only for the reality TV series, but it doesn't feel like it.  It just feels like we are again, peeking behind the curtain of something playing out.

But, not an expert and it can be done competitions that exist only for the shows do well - Survivor is still around.