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WhatTheBuck

WhatTheBuck 28797

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, ouflak said:

I would say as soon as they decided to declare a 'national champion', such debates were inevitable. Does anybody happen to know what year holds the record for most national championship claims?

We didn’t care as much about winning national championships back during the old bowl and poll system. The sport was more regional back then. Just winning your conference was the goal. Do that, play in a good bowl, and let the national championship chips fall where they may. Nobody cared if there were multiple national championships awarded by different organizations like the AP, UPI, etc.

It really all started after the 1986 season when Miami and Penn State finished ranked 1st and 2nd and were matched up in the Fiesta Bowl. Prior to that the top ranked teams would play other competition in their respective bowls and subjective judgments were made about who was national champs. That’s what eventually led to the Bowl Alliance and then the BCS. I liked the BCS. Before that I didn’t pay much attention to teams outside the Big Ten and PAC-10. I was oblivious to the Miami-PSU Fiesta Bowl. But I was aware that Michigan and Nebraska were each awarded a national championship the following year. 

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n64ra

n64ra 1087

Posted
Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, Js1 said:

8 teams
Winner of SEC/ACC/Pac 12/B1G/New Big 12 auto (5)
Top ranked G5 autobid (6)
2 at-large (8)

I like this but would consider the Big 12 as demoted from P5

Winner of SEC/ACC/Pac 12/B1G

Top two ranked G6 autobid (6)

2 at-large (8)

Edited by n64ra
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dingleberryswitzer

dingleberryswitzer 2724

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

That’s what eventually led to the Bowl Alliance and then the BCS. I liked the BCS.

BCS was bad because it had to choose two teams to ply for the championship.  Or rather any system choosing only two teams is shitty.

 I like the idea of the expanded playoffs using a BCS formula where computer and human rankings are mixed together.  Or shoot even just computer rankings.  

 

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66BUFF

66BUFF 2565

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

We didn’t care as much about winning national championships back during the old bowl and poll system. The sport was more regional back then. Just winning your conference was the goal. Do that, play in a good bowl, and let the national championship chips fall where they may. Nobody cared if there were multiple national championships awarded by different organizations like the AP, UPI, etc.

It really all started after the 1986 season when Miami and Penn State finished ranked 1st and 2nd and were matched up in the Fiesta Bowl. Prior to that the top ranked teams would play other competition in their respective bowls and subjective judgments were made about who was national champs. That’s what eventually led to the Bowl Alliance and then the BCS. I liked the BCS. Before that I didn’t pay much attention to teams outside the Big Ten and PAC-10. I was oblivious to the Miami-PSU Fiesta Bowl. But I was aware that Michigan and Nebraska were each awarded a national championship the following year. 

86 to 97???  Looks like you are missing a decade there Chief.

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ztejas

ztejas 43528

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, n64ra said:

I like this but would consider the Big 12 as demoted from P5

Winner of SEC/ACC/Pac 12/B1G

Top two ranked G6 autobid (6)

2 at-large (8)

Huh? The P12 and ACC are both hot garbage. Even without Texas and OU the B12 would have Cincy (2), okie lite (11), Baylor (14), BYU (17) and UH (20). The Pac12 has... Oregon (7). ACC has... Wake (10). Oregon would be lucky to go 3-2 against that slate on neutral fields. Wake would be lucky to win 2 of those. 

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WhatTheBuck

WhatTheBuck 28797

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, dingleberryswitzer said:

BCS was bad because it had to choose two teams to ply for the championship.  Or rather any system choosing only two teams is shitty.

 I like the idea of the expanded playoffs using a BCS formula where computer and human rankings are mixed together.  Or shoot even just computer rankings.  

In a lot of years there were only two teams deserving of playing for the title. Of course whoever got left out felt like they were getting screwed. That will always be true no matter how big you expand the playoff. There will just be more teams who feel they got screwed. 8 teams? They’re already talking 12. It’ll be 16 before you know it. Might as well get a jump on figuring out how you’d configure that because it’s going to happen.

Oh yeah, I forgot to add that people hated the computers because the computers didn’t share their subjective biases about how teams should be ranked. 

Edited by WhatTheBuck
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NeverMarryAStripper

NeverMarryAStripper 21920

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

 Of course whoever got left out felt like they were getting screwed. That will always be true no matter how big you expand the playoff.

Basketball has 68 and people still bitch about getting left out.  The only way to get rid of the bitching is to put everyone in.

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WhatTheBuck

WhatTheBuck 28797

Posted
Posted
On 11/3/2021 at 6:16 PM, longhornmatt said:

What’s the downside of 2 extra blowouts on a day when other games are on anyway vs. the upside of a Boise State vs. OU upset, which as you note, happened in 2006 and is still more memorable than 99% of the games that have been played since then?

Besides, haven’t Boise State, Houston, and UCF all picked off P5 teams in NY6 bowls since they started the current playoff?   And Cincinnati has come close.   An upset here and there is not really that improbable, especially if they’re playing the 4/5 seed instead of Alabama or whoever is number 1.   The counter argument I see is that the new Big 12 would be absorbing the good G5 programs so the remaining G5 won’t be as competitive. 

Boring, meaningless games. More chances for players to get injured. More reason for NFL prospects on the lower seeded teams to sit out and prepare for the combine. What if player injuries wind up determining who wins the championship? I don’t think the fact that sometimes there are upsets in football is a good reason to expand the playoff. Watch the bowls. Sometimes there are exciting upsets in those games too.

It’s not a video game. Just how much do we want to ask of the players?  Not to mention the alumni who travel to see all the games. Or even just one. And what about the students? They should be represented at every game.

Another thing i liked about the BCS is that it gave the players time to take their finals, spend the holiday with their families, and then just play one more game for dear ol’ State U before the eligible players went to prepare for the draft. Plus it didn’t kill the bowl season.

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n64ra

n64ra 1087

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Posted
On 11/4/2021 at 3:06 PM, ztejas said:

Huh? The P12 and ACC are both hot garbage. Even without Texas and OU the B12 would have Cincy (2), okie lite (11), Baylor (14), BYU (17) and UH (20). The Pac12 has... Oregon (7). ACC has... Wake (10). Oregon would be lucky to go 3-2 against that slate on neutral fields. Wake would be lucky to win 2 of those. 

P5 and G5 aren't annual barometers but should be adjusted when seismic shifts occur. The new Big 12 will have something in common with the current G5 - no national championships over the past 35+ years.

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Doc Sam Beckett

Doc Sam Beckett 5797

Posted
Posted
On 11/4/2021 at 1:06 PM, ztejas said:

Huh? The P12 and ACC are both hot garbage. Even without Texas and OU the B12 would have Cincy (2), okie lite (11), Baylor (14), BYU (17) and UH (20). The Pac12 has... Oregon (7). ACC has... Wake (10). Oregon would be lucky to go 3-2 against that slate on neutral fields. Wake would be lucky to win 2 of those. 

Makes a lot of sense if this was the inaugural year of college football, but we all know what the new Big 12 will become 

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ztejas

ztejas 43528

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Posted
21 minutes ago, LTtxfan said:

Cincinnati needs to shut up and win by larger amounts -- not worthy of Top 6 ranking after their shitshow today.... 

Because they struggled with a team that gave tOSU a good game? Or because they only beat Tulane by 19 who played OU to 5 points? 

Cincy is undefeated and beat ND on the road - who waxed Navy today at home - who Cincy edged on the road and now has people trying to hold that result against them.

Not sure if Cincy is a top 4 team but the double standards are ridiculous. They have a resume just as impressive as Oregon or OU. Fucking no one in the country wants Cincy on a neutral field. 

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WillUSAF

WillUSAF 226

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Posted

4 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Because they struggled with a team that gave tOSU a good game? Or because they only beat Tulane by 19 who played OU to 5 points? 

Cincy is undefeated and beat ND on the road - who waxed Navy today at home - who Cincy edged on the road and now has people trying to hold that result against them.

Not sure if Cincy is a top 4 team but the double standards are ridiculous. They have a resume just as impressive as Oregon or OU. Fucking no one in the country wants Cincy on a neutral field. 

I'm not sure if I can agree with you here when you look at their schedule. Navy has no defense, they beat Tulsa last week WITHOUT throwing a pass. An 8-0 team ranked #6 in the country, playing at home on homecoming, playing a team in the bottom half of the conference should be a blowout. They proved to me once again (the Navy game) that they are overrated. Are they the best team in the American? Yes, but far from being a national title contender. But in my opinion all of this talk will be all over in a couple of weeks. I think they are pretty vulnerable to SMU (7-2) and ECU (5-4)(they have been playing much better the past couple of weeks).

2021 Cincinnati Bearcats Schedule | ESPN

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ztejas

ztejas 43528

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Posted
1 hour ago, WillUSAF said:

An 8-0 team ranked #6 in the country, playing at home on homecoming, playing a team in the bottom half of the conference should be a blowout.

Right but that's my point. You're holding them to a standard that other teams aren't held to. Ohio State has lost a game and had some other less than commanding wins and yet no one is questioning them. Sure Cincy isn't in a P5 conference - but they beat Indiana and Notre Dame already this year. I just think it's silly that half the field is DQ'ed from the start. 

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Wally Fairway

Wally Fairway 5575

Posted
Posted
10 hours ago, LTtxfan said:

Cincinnati needs to shut up and win by larger amounts -- not worthy of Top 6 ranking after their shitshow today.... 

You are not wrong, but you also need to include a list of others in the same situation including Bama, Ohio St, Oregon ( not to mention the long list of frauds who lost this week).

Maybe this is the year to reduce the number of teams in the playoffs, to just Georgia 

 

 

 

{sarcasm, for those who miss it}

 

 

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LTtxfan

LTtxfan 49332

Posted
Posted
10 hours ago, ztejas said:

Because they struggled with a team that gave tOSU a good game? Or because they only beat Tulane by 19 who played OU to 5 points? 

Cincy is undefeated and beat ND on the road - who waxed Navy today at home - who Cincy edged on the road and now has people trying to hold that result against them.

Not sure if Cincy is a top 4 team but the double standards are ridiculous. They have a resume just as impressive as Oregon or OU. Fucking no one in the country wants Cincy on a neutral field. 

Whining all week about their lack of respect from CFP voters then struggling AT HOME ON NATIONAL TV vs a 3-6 Tulsa team is a terrible result...

CINCY is digressing and doesn't deserve a Top 6 CFP Ranking...  

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bullet 1597

Posted
Posted
18 hours ago, ztejas said:

Right but that's my point. You're holding them to a standard that other teams aren't held to. Ohio State has lost a game and had some other less than commanding wins and yet no one is questioning them. Sure Cincy isn't in a P5 conference - but they beat Indiana and Notre Dame already this year. I just think it's silly that half the field is DQ'ed from the start. 

And someone said nobody will criticize Alabama for a close game against LSU who Kentucky stomped a couple weeks ago 42-21.  Sure enough, coaches poll moved Alabama past Cincinnati.

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bullet 1597

Posted
Posted
On 11/3/2021 at 1:30 AM, immamac said:

CFP is about the best 4 teams. Undefeated doesn’t mean anything. UTSA and Cincinnati are getting the doors blown off by any one of the teams ranked ahead of them right now. 

Performance on the field doesn't mean anything either.  Its a beauty contest on who they think is best, not who performed best.

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bullet 1597

Posted
Posted
On 11/3/2021 at 9:44 AM, immamac said:

I have never felt like the best team in college hasn't won the NCG since the playoff. It works and all of you are fucking mouth breathers. 

Didn't watch TCU in 2014 or Ohio St. play against 6-5 Virginia Tech?  TCU didn't even make the top 5.

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bullet 1597

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, Constant said:

Being an undefeated Big 12 Champion and missing the playoffs to an undefeated American Athletic school would be the chefs kiss on this terrible conference. 

Well this is what the committee has set up:

 

1. Alabama 12-1
2. Georgia 12-1
3. Michigan 12-1
4. Oregon 12-1
5. Oklahoma 13-0
6. Cincinnati 13-0

Oklahoma plays a 10-2 Texas A&M who beat Alabama, in the Sugar Bowl
Ohio St. 10-2 plays a nondescript Pac 12 school in the Rose Bowl
Cincinnati plays Michigan St. 10-2 who beat Michigan, in the Peach Bowl
Notre Dame plays a nondescript ACC champ in the Cotton Bowl

Even worse for Cincinnati would be if the ACC champ was someone ND already played (UVA, VT, UNC) in which case Cincinnati might play a possibly unranked ACC champ while ND played MSU.
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ztejas

ztejas 43528

Posted
Posted
23 minutes ago, Constant said:

Being an undefeated Big 12 Champion and missing the playoffs to an undefeated American Athletic school would be the chefs kiss on this terrible conference. 

 

10 minutes ago, bullet said:

With Ohio St., Michigan, Michigan St. and Penn St. all playing 2 of each other, they have set up a justification for keeping a 1 loss Big 10 champ ahead of either Cincinnati or OU.

Undefeated OU is not missing the playoff you drama queens. They still have to play Baylor, ISU and Okie Lite and win the B12CG. The meat of their schedule is extremely backloaded. Win those 3 and tack on another one against one of those 3 and they get in 100%. They could get in with 1 loss. 

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gmr548

gmr548 16607

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Posted
Undefeated OU is not missing the playoff you drama queens. They still have to play Baylor, ISU and Okie Lite and win the B12CG. The meat of their schedule is extremely backloaded. Win those 3 and tack on another one against one of those 3 and they get in 100%. They could get in with 1 loss. 

This. I don’t know about the one loss thing but there’s no chance a 13-0 OU gets left out. None. Oregon is the only power 5 team that’s not in control of its own destiny.
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bullet 1597

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, ztejas said:

 

Undefeated OU is not missing the playoff you drama queens. They still have to play Baylor, ISU and Okie Lite and win the B12CG. The meat of their schedule is extremely backloaded. Win those 3 and tack on another one against one of those 3 and they get in 100%. They could get in with 1 loss. 

Ohio St. still has to play Michigan and Michigan St. and Purdue.

Michigan still has to play Ohio St. and Penn St.

Michigan St. still has to play Ohio St. and Penn St.

They all have backloaded schedules too.  Maybe they pass Oregon.

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0xdeadbeef

0xdeadbeef 1652

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, bullet said:

Ohio St. still has to play Michigan and Michigan St. and Purdue.

Michigan still has to play Ohio St. and Penn St.

Michigan St. still has to play Ohio St. and Penn St.

They all have backloaded schedules too.  Maybe they pass Oregon.

If OSU runs the table, MICH and MSU have 2nd losses and are out of the picture.  If OSU drops a game, they have a 2nd loss and are out.  They can't all win out.

 

Edited by 0xdeadbeef
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bullet 1597

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, 0xdeadbeef said:

If OSU runs the table, MICH and MSU have 2nd losses and are out of the picture.  If OSU drops a game, they have a 2nd loss and are out.  They can't all win out.

 

You are missing the point.  If any of them win out, there is a good chance they stay ahead of an unbeaten OU, let alone an unbeaten Cincinnati.  Alabama wins out and they are in.  Georgia loses only to Alabama and they are in.  So the question is whether OU gets in or UO who is sitting at #3 with a win over current #4 gets in.

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ztejas

ztejas 43528

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Posted
29 minutes ago, bullet said:

You are missing the point.  If any of them win out, there is a good chance they stay ahead of an unbeaten OU, let alone an unbeaten Cincinnati.  Alabama wins out and they are in.  Georgia loses only to Alabama and they are in.  So the question is whether OU gets in or UO who is sitting at #3 with a win over current #4 gets in.

UO literally has no one left on their schedule that's ranked. Probably including the P12CG. If OU goes undefeated they will most likely have another 3 ranked wins. There is no way on God's green earth an undefeated OU wouldn't be above UO. The more relevant question is whether a 1 loss OU or UO gets in. 

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markstanco

markstanco 12586

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Posted
You are missing the point.  If any of them win out, there is a good chance they stay ahead of an unbeaten OU, let alone an unbeaten Cincinnati.  Alabama wins out and they are in.  Georgia loses only to Alabama and they are in.  So the question is whether OU gets in or UO who is sitting at #3 with a win over current #4 gets in.

Ha…an undefeated ou team is in no matter what. The ducks are out from Stanford.
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ChiTownDoc

ChiTownDoc 21154

Posted
Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, bullet said:

You are missing the point.  If any of them win out, there is a good chance they stay ahead of an unbeaten OU, let alone an unbeaten Cincinnati.  Alabama wins out and they are in.  Georgia loses only to Alabama and they are in.  So the question is whether OU gets in or UO who is sitting at #3 with a win over current #4 gets in.

Lol.  There’s zero chance.  Zero.  OU undefeated is in.  OU with one loss will have a very good chance - if they win the conference.  
 

Pete Fiutek CFN:

7. Oklahoma at 8 isn’t a big deal

Most fans understand this, but too many people who know better are making the mistake of thinking Oklahoma needs Cincinnati to lose. No way, no how, NO CHANCE will Oklahoma be left out of the College Football Playoff if it finishes as the 13-0 Big 12 champion. It would be one of – maybe – two unbeaten Power Five champs.

And yeah, if it goes 12-1 with a Big 12 championship – at Baylor, Iowa State, at Oklahoma State, and with, probably, one of them again in the title game to close – it’s probably in, too.

Edited by ChiTownDoc
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