Texas Recruiting Notes 2021

[futureman 22444]

2 hours ago, realgreggym said:

If a young man decides to commit to another school, sometimes it could be due to the coaches but there may be a number of other reasons why they go elsewhere. 

fuck all that.  we’re texas. 

[BigHorn'13 3363]

8 hours ago, realgreggym said:

Its not about sympathy. Its about reality. The coaches didn't fumble the ball at the goal line against TCU. Its not the coaches fault that our punter

took an extra 5 steps before having the punt blocked against OU less the coaches told him to take those extra steps. The Iowa State game is a different story.

Coaches at all levels make mistakes. I am not making excuses for coaches but its really easy to be a Monday morning QB. If a young man decides to commit to another school, sometimes it could be due to the coaches but there may be a number of other reasons why they go elsewhere. 

 

Not even sure what to make of the last paragraph and as to the rest of your rant... well. How about not persistently wanting to play ball control in the most prolific offensive conference of the P5? How many more wins does that get Herman in his entire career? Sure Ingram fumbled and (at that point) cost us a game. Why was he in position to do so in the first place? These are coaching, not player, issues. 

I'd be a little more receptive if we weren't discussing someone who thinks they know more than everyone else. People who can't learn from their mistakes and implement insanity into their actions. Fucking crash dummies is really what they are. We've got a head coach trying over and over again to run an offense more suitable for the big 10 and secX3 but you want to talk about the players making all the mistakes? They're not even in a position to win at the start of games for fuck's sake. 

[Atticus 3973]

12 hours ago, realgreggym said:

Its not about sympathy. Its about reality. The coaches didn't fumble the ball at the goal line against TCU. Its not the coaches fault that our punter

took an extra 5 steps before having the punt blocked against OU less the coaches told him to take those extra steps. The Iowa State game is a different story.

Coaches at all levels make mistakes. I am not making excuses for coaches but its really easy to be a Monday morning QB. If a young man

decides to commit to another school, sometimes it could be due to the coaches but there may be a number of other reasons why they go elsewhere. 

 

No one cares how hard you try. This is a results business, sell whatever you need to in order to get the recruits you need to compete at the highest level or pack your bags.

I don't care if you lose half your team to injury or COVID, win or go home.

[HenryJames 66038]

Nice guy? I don't give a shit. Good father? Fuck you. Go home and play with your kids. You wanna work here - close.

[Scholz 11938]

[LTtxfan 49144]

 

[Mdhorn 5947]

10 hours ago, BigHorn'13 said:

Not even sure what to make of the last paragraph and as to the rest of your rant... well. How about not persistently wanting to play ball control in the most prolific offensive conference of the P5? How many more wins does that get Herman in his entire career? Sure Ingram fumbled and (at that point) cost us a game. Why was he in position to do so in the first place? These are coaching, not player, issues. 

I'd be a little more receptive if we weren't discussing someone who thinks they know more than everyone else. People who can't learn from their mistakes and implement insanity into their actions. Fucking crash dummies is really what they are. We've got a head coach trying over and over again to run an offense more suitable for the big 10 and secX3 but you want to talk about the players making all the mistakes? They're not even in a position to win at the start of games for fuck's sake. 

I'm just glad Texas didn't open the season against Maryland.  Maryland, TCU, OU and now ISU own Texas currently, and that's on Herman.   This is a multiyear problem.    

[satyanash 14478]

Gerry Hamilton: IT Recruiting Matters

Quote

IT Recruiting Matters: Best freshman duo since, 2020 class is really good, sign another DL in February

Let’s be clear, Colorado wasn’t a good team. With that being said, the players on the field last night for Texas clearly showed why IT continues to say recruiting matters. Some important data points from the Alamo Bowl win last night.

* All 24 players that registered a tackle last night return next season.

* All five starters on the offensive line return next season. The last two games from an experience standpoint very important. With would have been starter Isaiah Hookfin coming back from injury,

* The playmakers from last nights game are all scheduled to return. That includes a senior and experience kicker that is more than competent as a punter.

* If Troy Omeire comes back close to what he was showing prior to the injury, the Longhorns have more receiver talent than many believe. Omeire’s size/ball skills, Josh Moore’s ability to snatch the ball out of the air, Kelvontay Dixon’s vertical speed, Jordan Whittington’s ability after the catch and the size/speed combo of Jared Wiley is something that a team can win 10-11 games with if the quarterback can get them the ball in good spots and with good timing.

Bijan Robinson and Alfred Collins are the best freshmen duo since the 2001 class:
Bijan is going to be a star, and if Texas can win enough games an All-American and potential seat at a Heisman Trophy ceremony. Alfred Collins will be a top 20 pick with the ability to be a top 5 level pick. Two true freshmen with that talent level and NFL draft ability has been seen in the same class in Austin since Cedric Benson and Derrick Johnson signed in the 2001 class. Both went on to be first round picks, and that is where Robinson and Collins should be in two years.

The 2020 class is really good, and can be great:
It has already hit on Bijan Robinson and Alfred Collins as future All-American’s and first round picks, but this class is showing depth and talent at a number of spots. Prior to injury, there was already chatter in the building at Texas that Troy Omeire was a future “top 15 pick” in the NFL Draft. Should that transpire post injury, Texas has three future first rounders in the class. Jake Majors and Andrej Karic look like multi-year starters. Vernon Broughton looks like a interior pass rusher with size, Jaylan Ford is a player, Kitan Crawford and Kelvontay Dixon look like future players with speed, Jerrin Thompson will be a solid at safety. Jahdae Barron has potential. Jaden Hullaby has potential. Sawyer Goram-Welch has ability. Hudson Card’s ability/future is loved inside the building in Austin.

The wildcard in the class has now become Prince Dorbah. I would say that the health of Troy Omeire and the development of Dorbah make them the two most important players in the program this off-season. Dorbah is at the biggest position of need when looking at next season - EDGE rusher. His ceiling is really high, and he needs to start ascending towards it this spring. Bottom line, the 2020 class will have multiple first round picks, a number of multi-year starters and the potential to be one that produces more than a handful of NFL Draft picks. If Hudson Card and Prince Dorbah come through, this class will be a great one.

Sign another high school defensive lineman in February!
Watching the future of the Texas defensive line last night was huge takeaway for me. The Longhorns have the makings of a tremendous defensive line with Alfred Collins, T’Vondre Sweat, Keondre Coburn, Vernon Broughton, Moro Ojomo, etc… and the freshmen on the way in Byron Murphy, Jordan Thomas and Barryn Sorrell. Those freshmen will be high energy, ideal motor players. We shall see where Ja’Tavion Sanders ends up, as that could add another key piece.

With that said, Texas absolutely needs to go after/sign either David Abiara or Garfield Lawrence in February. Programs ARE NOT built in the portal. They are built thru recruiting/evaluation. Either Abiara or Lawrence should be in the class, bottom line.

Can Texas reel in L.J. Johnson?
Members of the Texas staff were in conversation with Johnson following the game late last night. Texas continues to battle Texas A&M for the talented running back, with Johnson very likely to enroll at the school of his choice by mid-January. Stay Drayton is easily the best relationship for L.J. in the process. For Texas A&M, the momentum of the season and the offensive scheme are a better fit according to a person close to Johnson at Cy Fair.

 

[TommyGufano 6021]

I hate when we start declaring our freshmen are 1st rounders. I think if I look hard enough I can find one similar article claiming Holton Hill, K Boyd and Davante Davis were all going in the 1st round (it's possible they were earmarked as "day 1" picks when that meant something different than it does today).

BUT THIS TIME IT'S DIFFERENT!

(I do like the '20 class quite a bit)

[horn4life 3759]

I had to come over to see where the surliest of the surly like to lurk these days.  

1- for those that are crying about Texas losing out to Alabama, what do you think teams number one ranked teams year after year do?  They tend to get the best players if they can keep their teams winning steaks going. Bama has. So yeah, they can say in a living room, "Want to play for a National Championship program?" and have the shit to back it up. We don't, so don't be so surprised.

2- our game last night against Colorado was about as good as it could get to help the team recruit the rest of this class.  We showed the potential of our young guys after stacking up a pile of NFL bound hopefuls who opted out.

3-No Colorado was not Alabama, Ohio State or a top 25 team.  Still it was so nice to see the team dominate and play from ahead with some new kid in town highlights.  You have to love what we saw from Overshown, Collins and Gbenda last night on the defensive side.  I haven't seen a big dude like Collins with the level of body control in burnt orange since former bowling ball Casey Hampton. That interception was a thing of beauty.  We have a good chance of finding some kids on the defensive side of the ball to fill the final gaps in the class (I hope and pray.)

4- The offensive future looked pretty good with Bijan and Casey and I was very glad to hear Herman pronounce them as "the future" no matter what is Sam's decision to return. If you were a kid even mildly interested in Texas, last night's bowl game probably did not make you less interested that's for sure.

5- We have a pretty decent football team that looked pretty darn good (I know Colorado) last night.  We just might have a pretty good season in the Fall and shock... surprise.. if we win a lot of games this Fall we might not see Bama take all the top dogs in our State.  The alternative could have been a shitty bowl game showing and the overall impression of a leaky ship trying to navigate the waters.  One is a fuck of a lot better than the other!!!

I did not mean to interrupt the hand wringing, just saying it could be a lot worse.

 

 

[texifornia 56869]

8 minutes ago, horn4life said:

5- We have a pretty decent football team that looked pretty darn good (I know Colorado) last night.  We just might have a pretty good season in the Fall and shock... surprise.. if we win a lot of games this Fall we might not see Bama take all the top dogs in our State.  The alternative could have been a shitty bowl game showing and the overall impression of a leaky ship trying to navigate the waters.  One is a fuck of a lot better than the other!!!

Winning is better than losing, but the ship is definitely still leaking.

[HenryJames 66038]

Yes, we have good players.

No, we don’t consistently put them in position to succeed.

[Gut Wagon 8065]

6 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

Yes, we have good players.

No, we don’t consistently put them in position to succeed.

If our players average 4 stars but have 2 star coaching, and we face teams with 2 star players but 4 star coaching, we're going to be in a lot of close games. And sure enough, we are.

 

[JPETERMAN 111]

12 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

Yes, we have good players.

No, we don’t consistently put them in position to succeed.

This.  Plus the fact that our talent level is only going to go down from here with Herman in charge.  If he can't win the conference with the roster he had this year and OU being way down compared to normal, we won't ever have a shot under him. 

As for the IT sunshine, I recall similar sentiments after last year's beat down of Utah in the bowl game as well.  Gee, look at all these youngsters that had to step up and the coaches put them in a better scheme.  Show me a loss next year!  Well.  Here we are.....again.  And unless CDC has the fortitude to do what needs to be done, we'll be in a similar situation this time next year.....again.  

Plus we'll have missed out on the potential of getting the cream from the 2022 class as well and potentially missing out on difference makers from the one-time transfer portal freebie.  Love how the team finished.  But I still think Tom has to go.  

[Balcones 317]

Alamo Bowl win bump?  who is now CBing for Texas?

[texifornia 56869]

8 minutes ago, Balcones said:

Alamo Bowl win bump?  who is now CBing for Texas?

[Balcones 317]

Just now, texifornia said:

Sorry.  Trying to be positive.  

[MuellerHorn 4228]

4 hours ago, JPETERMAN said:

This.  Plus the fact that our talent level is only going to go down from here with Herman in charge.  If he can't win the conference with the roster he had this year and OU being way down compared to normal, we won't ever have a shot under him. 

As for the IT sunshine, I recall similar sentiments after last year's beat down of Utah in the bowl game as well.  Gee, look at all these youngsters that had to step up and the coaches put them in a better scheme.  Show me a loss next year!  Well.  Here we are.....again.  And unless CDC has the fortitude to do what needs to be done, we'll be in a similar situation this time next year.....again.  

Plus we'll have missed out on the potential of getting the cream from the 2022 class as well and potentially missing out on difference makers from the one-time transfer portal freebie.  Love how the team finished.  But I still think Tom has to go.  

I'll tell you two things that are NOT the same as last (2019) season:

1. Herman is not calling plays. That was Yurcich on full display, and we saw a lot more than we did pre-Kansas State.

2. Fucking Todd Orlando isn't around and Ash has proven he can improve the defense over the course of a season.

 

Also, pending a coaching move (unlikely, at this point), our players will finally move forward into an off season where their coordinators are competent and won't change; that's huge.

While I agree that Herman has wasted his time here, thus far, due to a litany of mass fuckery, I'm much more optimistic about the staff that surrounds him. Hand should be replaced from a recruiting perspective, but we'll see if Cosmi going in round one and young players getting meaningful playing time (and actually looking good) will help in the class of 2022. 

Edited December 30, 2020 by MuellerHorn
"Litany of mass fuckery" was too good not to include

[HenryJames 66038]

[Hank_Hill 18793]

25 minutes ago, MuellerHorn said:

I'll tell you two things that are NOT the same as last (2019) season:

1. Herman is not calling plays. That was Yurcich on full display, and we saw a lot more than we did pre-Kansas State.

2. Fucking Todd Orlando isn't around and Ash has proven he can improve the defense over the course of a season.

 

Also, pending a coaching move (unlikely, at this point), our players will finally move forward into an off season where their coordinators are competent and won't change; that's huge.

While I agree that Herman has wasted his time here, thus far, due to a litany of mass fuckery, I'm much more optimistic about the staff that surrounds him. Hand should be replaced from a recruiting perspective, but we'll see if Cosmi going in round one and young players getting meaningful playing time (and actually looking good) will help in the class of 2022. 

This is based on....?

[realgreggym 835]

10 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

How many stars does this recruit have?

[MuellerHorn 4228]

52 minutes ago, Hank_Hill said:

This is based on....?

CDC isn't going to buy out $25 million worth of contracts for a head coach that isn't an unequivocal upgrade. Therefore, based on what I've read, it's my opinion that it's unlikely going to happen. Obviously, we'll see.

[Dijon Robinson 1511]

31 minutes ago, MuellerHorn said:

CDC isn't going to buy out $25 million worth of contracts for a head coach that isn't an unequivocal upgrade. Therefore, based on what I've read, it's my opinion that it's unlikely going to happen. Obviously, we'll see.

You're right, CDC won't be the one buying out Herman's contract

[MuellerHorn 4228]

12 minutes ago, ChampionshipLevelPiss said:

You're right, CDC won't be the one buying out Herman's contract

Good one...

Of course it'll be donors forking over the funds, but it's (ultimately) not their decision. Like we've read, it'll be a united front of CDC, Hartzell, and Eltife.

[gmr548 16576]

I hate when we start declaring our freshmen are 1st rounders. I think if I look hard enough I can find one similar article claiming Holton Hill, K Boyd and Davante Davis were all going in the 1st round (it's possible they were earmarked as "day 1" picks when that meant something different than it does today).
BUT THIS TIME IT'S DIFFERENT!
(I do like the '20 class quite a bit)

Bijan might be a stretch, particularly just given how the NFL drafts tailback these days. And I don’t trust Herman to make him a true feature back if he’s retained. Omerie? Lol okay let’s play a snap first.

Collins is not a stretch at all. That’s the kind of DL Bama and Clemson fuck people up with, and he has the kind of 1- to 5-tech versatility that gets you paid. Even if the current staff stays in place, we know he’ll get competent DL coaching. I’d bet money on it if healthy.

[JPETERMAN 111]

2 hours ago, MuellerHorn said:

I'll tell you two things that are NOT the same as last (2019) season:

1. Herman is not calling plays. That was Yurcich on full display, and we saw a lot more than we did pre-Kansas State.

2. Fucking Todd Orlando isn't around and Ash has proven he can improve the defense over the course of a season.

I’m not as convinced as you are that our offense is all better now because A) Herman will stick his nose back into play-calling at the first sign of stalling next year because that’s what he does and he’s proven he’s too stubborn to change because he's the smartest man in the room.  So if you agree that him sticking his nose into the offense is an issue, then you have to fire him or you have the same problem next season and B) I’m not completely sold that Yurcich’s play-calling down the stretch was truly all that great. 

When is it that you think Herman supposedly said screw it and started letting Yurcich call plays without providing any input?  I think if that indeed occurred, conventional wisdom is that it would have happened after the Oklahoma State game when our fate was sealed at not getting into the championship game.  So with Yurcich calling plays we put up 17 points against West Virginia.  And then we were 5-21 on 3^rd & 4^th downs vs K-state and Colorado.  However, we were + 6 in turnover margin over those last 2 games, and we averaged 13.5 yards per run for our 2 main running backs against K-state, and 10.8 yards per run against Colorado.  So is Yurcich so much better at calling run plays than the recommendations he was getting from Tom Herman?  Is Cosmi a terrible run blocker and he should have been benched all year?  Can we expect 10+ yards per carry next year with Yurcich getting zero input from Herman?  Or were those teams just crappy and beaten up?  I think it’s a greater likelihood of the latter.  Bijan getting more carries certainly helped, but we're not averaging anything near that next year against the better teams in the league.  And having Herman around likely ensures Bijan gets fewer carries than he would otherwise.  So to think that the offense is just going to click along next year based on the last 2 games of this season (while ignoring West Virginia) is a bit of wishful thinking IMHO.

As for the defense, here is the trend of points allowed per game for Texas since 2017 (First year of Herman)

Orlando:  21.2, 25.9, 27.5   Ash: 28.5      You can crap on Orlando all you want, but he was decent the first few years here, especially given the personnel he inherited.  And then people figured out his weaknesses and he was unable/unwilling to change.  Kind of like Tom.  Can Ash’s defense hold an OU team that has their 1^st string RB, a more experienced offensive line, and a qb with actual game experience underneath his belt to less than 40 points next year?  Can we score 40+ points against them next year? 

Because unless we beat OU next year, Herman is gone and all we've accomplished by retaining him another year is to save some money (not mine so who cares), and secure one more year of subpar recruiting results that will just set us back further.

[MuellerHorn 4228]

1 hour ago, JPETERMAN said:

I’m not as convinced as you are that our offense is all better now because A) Herman will stick his nose back into play-calling at the first sign of stalling next year because that’s what he does and he’s proven he’s too stubborn to change because he's the smartest man in the room.  So if you agree that him sticking his nose into the offense is an issue, then you have to fire him or you have the same problem next season and B) I’m not completely sold that Yurcich’s play-calling down the stretch was truly all that great. 

When is it that you think Herman supposedly said screw it and started letting Yurcich call plays without providing any input?  I think if that indeed occurred, conventional wisdom is that it would have happened after the Oklahoma State game when our fate was sealed at not getting into the championship game.  So with Yurcich calling plays we put up 17 points against West Virginia.  And then we were 5-21 on 3^rd & 4^th downs vs K-state and Colorado.  However, we were + 6 in turnover margin over those last 2 games, and we averaged 13.5 yards per run for our 2 main running backs against K-state, and 10.8 yards per run against Colorado.  So is Yurcich so much better at calling run plays than the recommendations he was getting from Tom Herman?  Is Cosmi a terrible run blocker and he should have been benched all year?  Can we expect 10+ yards per carry next year with Yurcich getting zero input from Herman?  Or were those teams just crappy and beaten up?  I think it’s a greater likelihood of the latter.  Bijan getting more carries certainly helped, but we're not averaging anything near that next year against the better teams in the league.  And having Herman around likely ensures Bijan gets fewer carries than he would otherwise.  So to think that the offense is just going to click along next year based on the last 2 games of this season (while ignoring West Virginia) is a bit of wishful thinking IMHO.

As for the defense, here is the trend of points allowed per game for Texas since 2017 (First year of Herman)

Orlando:  21.2, 25.9, 27.5   Ash: 28.5      You can crap on Orlando all you want, but he was decent the first few years here, especially given the personnel he inherited.  And then people figured out his weaknesses and he was unable/unwilling to change.  Kind of like Tom.  Can Ash’s defense hold an OU team that has their 1^st string RB, a more experienced offensive line, and a qb with actual game experience underneath his belt to less than 40 points next year?  Can we score 40+ points against them next year? 

Because unless we beat OU next year, Herman is gone and all we've accomplished by retaining him another year is to save some money (not mine so who cares), and secure one more year of subpar recruiting results that will just set us back further.

That's quite a bit of extrapolation of my opinion based on what I said. I never said Herman should be retained. All I have said is that I don't believe a coaching change will occur, and that if a coaching change doesn't occur, stable coordinators will benefit the team.

I have no idea when Yurcich gained more control, but I do know that against KSU and CU, Texas employed personnel packages and formations that we haven't seen in the past three and a half seasons.

Also, no matter what the points allowed stats show, it's obvious that Chris Ash is better than Orlando at defensive situational football.

 

[JPETERMAN 111]

24 minutes ago, MuellerHorn said:

That's quite a bit of extrapolation of my opinion based on what I said. I never said Herman should be retained. All I have said is that I don't believe a coaching change will occur, and that if a coaching change doesn't occur, stable coordinators will benefit the team.

I have no idea when Yurcich gained more control, but I do know that against KSU and CU, Texas employed personnel packages and formations that we haven't seen in the past three and a half seasons.

Also, no matter what the points allowed stats show, it's obvious that Chris Ash is better than Orlando at defensive situational football.

 

Sorry.  I guess when you quoted me and the theme of my entire post was that Herman needed to go, I assumed that you thought he should stay unless we had Urban locked up.  Yes, I agree with the premise that having a full "normal" offseason should obviously benefit the team if they have some coaching stability on the coordinator front.   

As for the packages and formations, I'll have to take your word for it.  I honestly didn't notice anything significantly different than we've been doing, other than more max protect type stuff and screens in the 2nd half of the Colorado game which was apparently by design in order to limit risk with the backup qb in.  But if you say we did, then I'll believe you.  But 17 points in the 1st half with Yurcich's "normal" scheme and play-calling against that Colorado team last night is nice, but won't exactly cut it against top Big 12 teams next year I don't think. 

I do like both coordinators we have now, and think they should improve next year as well hopefully.  I'd imagine that the full playbook on both sides were not entirely in.  But if I had to choose between keeping Herman and both of them, or having a new staff entirely, then give me the latter.  Apologize for misinterpreting your post.    

And clearly Hand has to go.  I don't think anyone will disagree there.

[gmr548 16576]

I’m not as convinced as you are that our offense is all better now because A) Herman will stick his nose back into play-calling at the first sign of stalling next year because that’s what he does and he’s proven he’s too stubborn to change because he's the smartest man in the room.  So if you agree that him sticking his nose into the offense is an issue, then you have to fire him or you have the same problem next season and B) I’m not completely sold that Yurcich’s play-calling down the stretch was truly all that great. 
When is it that you think Herman supposedly said screw it and started letting Yurcich call plays without providing any input?  I think if that indeed occurred, conventional wisdom is that it would have happened after the Oklahoma State game when our fate was sealed at not getting into the championship game.  So with Yurcich calling plays we put up 17 points against West Virginia.  And then we were 5-21 on 3^rd & 4^th downs vs K-state and Colorado.  However, we were + 6 in turnover margin over those last 2 games, and we averaged 13.5 yards per run for our 2 main running backs against K-state, and 10.8 yards per run against Colorado.  So is Yurcich so much better at calling run plays than the recommendations he was getting from Tom Herman?  Is Cosmi a terrible run blocker and he should have been benched all year?  Can we expect 10+ yards per carry next year with Yurcich getting zero input from Herman?  Or were those teams just crappy and beaten up?  I think it’s a greater likelihood of the latter.  Bijan getting more carries certainly helped, but we're not averaging anything near that next year against the better teams in the league.  And having Herman around likely ensures Bijan gets fewer carries than he would otherwise.  So to think that the offense is just going to click along next year based on the last 2 games of this season (while ignoring West Virginia) is a bit of wishful thinking IMHO.
As for the defense, here is the trend of points allowed per game for Texas since 2017 (First year of Herman)
Orlando:  21.2, 25.9, 27.5   Ash: 28.5      You can crap on Orlando all you want, but he was decent the first few years here, especially given the personnel he inherited.  And then people figured out his weaknesses and he was unable/unwilling to change.  Kind of like Tom.  Can Ash’s defense hold an OU team that has their 1^st string RB, a more experienced offensive line, and a qb with actual game experience underneath his belt to less than 40 points next year?  Can we score 40+ points against them next year? 
Because unless we beat OU next year, Herman is gone and all we've accomplished by retaining him another year is to save some money (not mine so who cares), and secure one more year of subpar recruiting results that will just set us back further.

I have no idea and don’t pretend to know, but Herman relinquishing play calls after elimination makes more sense than your timeline suggests. OSU didn’t seal Texas’s fate. It actually put control back in their hands. ISU loss was what’s did it. If Texas won they have gone to the CCG. So that would just leave the KSU and bowl games.

[JPETERMAN 111]

43 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

I have no idea and don’t pretend to know, but Herman relinquishing play calls after elimination makes more sense than your timeline suggests. OSU didn’t seal Texas’s fate. It actually put control back in their hands. ISU loss was what’s did it. If Texas won they have gone to the CCG. So that would just leave the KSU and bowl games.

Yes, you're right.  Looked back at the schedule wrong and misremembered the order in which the games occurred.  To be fair, I was drunk as a skunk in order to numb the pain while watching all games this year so partly blame my memory lapse on that..... So KSU and Colorado were in fact the only 2 that would fit this narrative.  
Both higher scoring games for sure, but I think my other points still raise doubts in my mind when discussing even just those 2 particular games about any significant betterment due solely to play-calling/scheme/packages derived from lack of Herman meddling.  I don't know.  I'm just sick of losing and think we need a change at the top.

[LTtxfan 49144]

1 hour ago, JPETERMAN said:

Yes, you're right.  Looked back at the schedule wrong & misremembered. To be fair, I was drunk as a skunk in order to numb the pain while watching all games this year...  I don't know.  I'm just sick of losing and think we need a change at the top.

so feelin' surly...

Edited December 31, 2020 by LTtxfan

[Had Enough 2079]

Couple things here.

Peterman. Orlando inherited a very nice corps of defenders. Experienced too. Feel free to check the NFL experience and look those guys up. Misuse of Ossai. 1st game post Orlando says it all.

Anybody speculating on who has been calling plays is reaching. K State. Herman had his head in the playsheet. We went short/intermediate more in the passing game in this game. The rest of the year we went deep way more often than any time in Herman's tenure. I'd read earlier this season Yurcich likes the deep ball. The flipside is that Brewer/the TB were nowhere near in 5 wides as often the last two weeks as the rest of the season.

Our crappy QB sweep. 3rd and 3 on the ill fated ISU failed 4th down drive. It repeated itself twice versus CU. It's a fairly useless play as we run it. Basically failed all 3 times. Same play caller that thinks it worth a damn or different guys who failed to realize it ain't that great?

Last night. Brewer down the seam. Herman historically has found a few select big plays for Brewer throughout his career. Not so much this year.

4th and 1 versus CU. Nothing creative. No play action. Fail just like ISU.

I have little doubt that Herman is involved in the offense. To what extent is curious. In no way am I convinced that negative results equal greater Herman influence. Last year, the general thought was the more involved Herman was the better the results.

I don't really know Jack about oline play other than results. In large part we have developed guys decently well with Herman/Hand. Jones and Angilau have been improved lately. Early returns on Majors and Karic are quite positive for true freshmen. Cosmi and Kerstetter, the tackle, exceeded their recruiting rankings. Recruiting tanked but is the narrative as to why accurate? Maybe personnel deployment was the issue. If so, who truly makes that call? Hand or Herman.

Overall, I think player development is reasonable, but Mack left the cupboard bare. Strong improved it but still lacked depth. Misses are amplified due to lack of depth and covid likely did impact the implementation of true freshmen this year. And some of the guys were simply overrated. Overshown as a DB for example. We've had 3 guys with non football related health issues never play. That's unusual. This senior class was limited in numbers and initial expectations.

Defensive scheme has been cleaned up. Offensive play calling really only needs smallish tweaks. Personnel deployment is a big key.

[HenryJames 66038]

5 hours ago, Had Enough said:

Last year, the general thought was the more involved Herman was the better the results.

Compared to Tim Beck.

[ImissWallyPryor 9046]

9 hours ago, Had Enough said:

We've had 3 guys with non football related health issues never play. That's unusual.

Help a brother out. Who’s the third after Floyd and Brown?

[TommyGufano 6021]

14 minutes ago, ImissWallyPryor said:

Help a brother out. Who’s the third after Floyd and Brown?

Mpagi. 

Also, Bru had a congenital gaping vagina

[Had Enough 2079]

Mpagi. 
Also, Bru had a congenital gaping vagina

Dang I even forgotted about Bru. He would have been another tantalizing piece to our 7 and 3 season.

[JPETERMAN 111]

10 hours ago, Had Enough said:

Couple things here.

Peterman. Orlando inherited a very nice corps of defenders. Experienced too. Feel free to check the NFL experience and look those guys up. Misuse of Ossai. 1st game post Orlando says it all.

There was talent, particularly the defensive backs.  But they were absolutely god awful the year prior.  Orlando absolutely turned that defense around pronto.  2016 team gave up 31.5 points per game and Orlando shaved 10 points off of that the following year.  Yards allowed dropped from 449 to 367.  The talent was there, but Orlando did coach them up and significantly improve them when he first got here.  1st 6 games of 2017 (excluding san jose state) ppg given up was 27.  Second half of year ppg allowed cut down to 19.  So Orlando's first team saw significant improvement throughout the year, even more than what we saw this year.  And they held an OU Senior QB Baker Mayfield led team to only 29 points.   

I mean there is no way he can fall as far and fast as Orlando did because he was truly doing some idiotic stuff his last few years here.  I hope Ash is for real.  I'm just a little skeptical after one year worth of results that are overall lukewarm.  We literally had nowhere to go but up, and despite giving up more points per game this year than last year, I would agree that the defense is actually in a lot better shape right now and trending the right way.  But I'm not ready to say he is a savior yet either.  

[Had Enough 2079]

But I'm not ready to say he is a savior yet either.  

I'm not either but there's reason for hope. And really we gave up too many points these last two games but guys flashed potential. Guys that hadn't played much. At all 3 levels, there are legitimate reasons to be positive. Easier said than done but we need a pass rushing terror.

Regardless of any positivity, it's at the prove it phase.

With this staff, across the board with the exception of WR, there are reasons for any player/recruit to feel as though they'll get better. At WR, we are in wait and see mode.

On the flip side, there are way too many WTH moments. Every team dealt with covid but the timing was potentially more damning for us than others since we replaced both coordinators.

[JPETERMAN 111]

So assuming for the sake of argument that Herman stays, what do you think our staff will look like next season?
DC - Ash;    SpTms/TE - Boulware;   WR - Coleman;   RB - Drayton;  DL1 - Giles;  DL2 - Hagen;  OL - Hand;   LB - Hutzler;  DB - Valai;   OC - Yurcich

The bad: 

Hand clearly has to go.

 

The Good:

Ash, Yurcich, Hutzler and Valai  seem good and it appears that we made good hires there last year.   

Drayton I think proved himself this year with the production on the field and finally landing the big fish after a few years of not being able to.  I think getting Bijan truly saved his job last offseason.  And while he isn't the best recruiter, particularly when the RB coach is usually able to help out other position groups, I think I'm ok with him as well.  
 

Undecided:

I don't know enough about Boulware at this point to be firmly in either the keep or cut camp.  Special teams weren't great, but weren't terrible.  Brewer drives me mad and I don't understand why he plays as much as he does.  But not sure if that is his call or Herman.  Wiley has shown really good potential.  I would have hoped Boulware could have had more impact in recruiting, helping other position groups etc.....but the program being in the trash overall really kind of hinders all of these guy's abilities to recruit honestly so not sure how much I can hold that against him at this point.  I think I'd lean towards keeping him.

I don't understand having 2 DL coaches honestly unless one of them is a stud recruiter, which I don't think applies to either of these 2.  I'm not in love with either Giles or Hagen.  But I don't have an absolute disgust for either at this point either.  Think I'd prefer to churn one and keep one and try to find a rainmaker.  If either got another job elsewhere on their own this offseason, I wouldn't be upset.  And that says a lot I suppose.  

I'm a little more iffy on Coleman.  Seems like we could get a rainmaker there.  I was looking for much improvement this year at getting off the line and route running compared to when Mehringer was in charge.  It has gotten better.  But I'm not sure the improvement is enough to offset his apparent shortcomings in recruiting.  Wish we could get the guy from TCU somehow.  I think I read that he was on a year to year deal, so I could see him not being retained either I suppose.

If I had to bet, and assuming Herman is back, I think Hand is the only one let go of the assistants this year.  And I guess I'd reluctantly be ok with that although I do think there are certain areas where upgrades could be made.  But if we do retain Herman, it's going to be hard to get great assistant coaches to join us given the uncertainty surrounding the team.  So probably best to sit tight for the most part I guess. 

Thoughts?

 

  

[Burt Macklin 19020]

11 minutes ago, JPETERMAN said:

So assuming for the sake of argument that Herman stays, what do you think our staff will look like next season?
DC - Ash;    SpTms/TE - Boulware;   WR - Coleman;   RB - Drayton;  DL1 - Giles;  DL2 - Hagen;  OL - Hand;   LB - Hutzler;  DB - Valai;   OC - Yurcich

The bad: 

Hand clearly has to go.

 

The Good:

Ash, Yurcich, Hutzler and Valai  seem good and it appears that we made good hires there last year.   

Drayton I think proved himself this year with the production on the field and finally landing the big fish after a few years of not being able to.  I think getting Bijan truly saved his job last offseason.  And while he isn't the best recruiter, particularly when the RB coach is usually able to help out other position groups, I think I'm ok with him as well.  
 

Undecided:

I don't know enough about Boulware at this point to be firmly in either the keep or cut camp.  Special teams weren't great, but weren't terrible.  Brewer drives me mad and I don't understand why he plays as much as he does.  But not sure if that is his call or Herman.  Wiley has shown really good potential.  I would have hoped Boulware could have had more impact in recruiting, helping other position groups etc.....but the program being in the trash overall really kind of hinders all of these guy's abilities to recruit honestly so not sure how much I can hold that against him at this point.  I think I'd lean towards keeping him.

I don't understand having 2 DL coaches honestly unless one of them is a stud recruiter, which I don't think applies to either of these 2.  I'm not in love with either Giles or Hagen.  But I don't have an absolute disgust for either at this point either.  Think I'd prefer to churn one and keep one and try to find a rainmaker.  If either got another job elsewhere on their own this offseason, I wouldn't be upset.  And that says a lot I suppose.  

I'm a little more iffy on Coleman.  Seems like we could get a rainmaker there.  I was looking for much improvement this year at getting off the line and route running compared to when Mehringer was in charge.  It has gotten better.  But I'm not sure the improvement is enough to offset his apparent shortcomings in recruiting.  Wish we could get the guy from TCU somehow.  I think I read that he was on a year to year deal, so I could see him not being retained either I suppose.

If I had to bet, and assuming Herman is back, I think Hand is the only one let go of the assistants this year.  And I guess I'd reluctantly be ok with that although I do think there are certain areas where upgrades could be made.  But if we do retain Herman, it's going to be hard to get great assistant coaches to join us given the uncertainty surrounding the team.  So probably best to sit tight for the most part I guess. 

Thoughts?

 

  

[RGBIII 22838]

19 hours ago, MuellerHorn said:

Good one...

Of course it'll be donors forking over the funds, but it's (ultimately) not their decision. Like we've read, it'll be a united front of CDC, Hartzell, and Eltife.

No CDC is in the corner watching this play out. He has been sidelined and Tom is toast

[JPETERMAN 111]

I'm with you.  I hope, and think Herman is still gone.  But even if someone like Urban comes in he may have a hard time getting the band back together.   I guess maybe he'd try to have his son in law take Offensive Coordinator spot in place of Yurcich?  But I think the rest of that first group I listed may be retained and everyone else would likely be gone.    

If Campbell gets the job, and his DC is willing to join him, then I'm guessing Ash is gone and most of the rest of the defensive coaches would be as well.  Haven't looked into their other coaches at all, but I know I'd take their DC in a heartbeat even though Ash has shown promise here.  No idea how those guys are as recruiters as Ames is a tough sell.  But they can evaluate, motivate, and coach it would seem.  Give me that plus if we can win, Texas recruits itself to a certain extent.  If we can win and put players in the league, then recruiting is on autopilot. 

 

[Mitch Cumsteen 18547]

52 minutes ago, JPETERMAN said:

So assuming for the sake of argument that Herman stays, what do you think our staff will look like next season?
DC - Ash;    SpTms/TE - Boulware;   WR - Coleman;   RB - Drayton;  DL1 - Giles;  DL2 - Hagen;  OL - Hand;   LB - Hutzler;  DB - Valai;   OC - Yurcich

The bad: 

Hand clearly has to go.

 

The Good:

Ash, Yurcich, Hutzler and Valai  seem good and it appears that we made good hires there last year.   

Drayton I think proved himself this year with the production on the field and finally landing the big fish after a few years of not being able to.  I think getting Bijan truly saved his job last offseason.  And while he isn't the best recruiter, particularly when the RB coach is usually able to help out other position groups, I think I'm ok with him as well.  
 

Undecided:

I don't know enough about Boulware at this point to be firmly in either the keep or cut camp.  Special teams weren't great, but weren't terrible.  Brewer drives me mad and I don't understand why he plays as much as he does.  But not sure if that is his call or Herman.  Wiley has shown really good potential.  I would have hoped Boulware could have had more impact in recruiting, helping other position groups etc.....but the program being in the trash overall really kind of hinders all of these guy's abilities to recruit honestly so not sure how much I can hold that against him at this point.  I think I'd lean towards keeping him.

I don't understand having 2 DL coaches honestly unless one of them is a stud recruiter, which I don't think applies to either of these 2.  I'm not in love with either Giles or Hagen.  But I don't have an absolute disgust for either at this point either.  Think I'd prefer to churn one and keep one and try to find a rainmaker.  If either got another job elsewhere on their own this offseason, I wouldn't be upset.  And that says a lot I suppose.  

I'm a little more iffy on Coleman.  Seems like we could get a rainmaker there.  I was looking for much improvement this year at getting off the line and route running compared to when Mehringer was in charge.  It has gotten better.  But I'm not sure the improvement is enough to offset his apparent shortcomings in recruiting.  Wish we could get the guy from TCU somehow.  I think I read that he was on a year to year deal, so I could see him not being retained either I suppose.

If I had to bet, and assuming Herman is back, I think Hand is the only one let go of the assistants this year.  And I guess I'd reluctantly be ok with that although I do think there are certain areas where upgrades could be made.  But if we do retain Herman, it's going to be hard to get great assistant coaches to join us given the uncertainty surrounding the team.  So probably best to sit tight for the most part I guess. 

Thoughts?

 

  

If Herman is retained I can't imagine any scenario, barring one of our corches taking another job somewhere else where Herman is allowed to replace anybody on the staff. He got his do-over last year. No way in hell they are going to keep throwing money at new coaches and hoping that Herman picks a better guy.

[JPETERMAN 111]

16 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

If Herman is retained I can't imagine any scenario, barring one of our corches taking another job somewhere else where Herman is allowed to replace anybody on the staff. He got his do-over last year. No way in hell they are going to keep throwing money at new coaches and hoping that Herman picks a better guy.

Not even Hand?  I think he has to go at a minimum.  But then again I thought Mehringer had to go about 2 seasons before he was actually fired too, so what do I know.

[cafe society 2860]

1 hour ago, RGBIII said:

No CDC is in the corner watching this play out. He has been sidelined and Tom is toast

Not disputing this, but I am curious as to where this narrative originated.  I mean, if it's true, doesn't that make it a virtual certainty that as soon as Herman is replaced that CDC is given the air?

[Hiphopopotamos 20869]

1 hour ago, cafe society said:

Not disputing this, but I am curious as to where this narrative originated.  I mean, if it's true, doesn't that make it a virtual certainty that as soon as Herman is replaced that CDC is given the air?

It originated with the insiders on this board and then the 9.95'ers (namely IT).

CDC's value is in a different area than 'replace Football coach'.  CDC is a money-raiser and glad-hander.  He's damn good at the non-revenue sports that keep us competitive in the Director's cup that Stanford wins every year.  If he decides that he doesn't want to be at a school that refused to give him complete control over the football HC search - then I guess he'll walk.

[LTtxfan 49144]

Playoff preview: Texas signees, targets still in the hunt

If interested, here's free article by Mike Roach on guys still in the playoffs.... 

https://247sports.com/college/texas/LongFormArticle/txhsfb-playoff-preview-Texas-Longhorns-football-recruiting-Texas-signees-targets-in-Texas-high-school-playoffs-158081305/#158081305_6 

 

 

[NoName 16351]

On 12/30/2020 at 5:35 PM, JPETERMAN said:

I’m not as convinced as you are that our offense is all better now because A) Herman will stick his nose back into play-calling at the first sign of stalling next year because that’s what he does and he’s proven he’s too stubborn to change because he's the smartest man in the room.  So if you agree that him sticking his nose into the offense is an issue, then you have to fire him or you have the same problem next season and B) I’m not completely sold that Yurcich’s play-calling down the stretch was truly all that great. 

When is it that you think Herman supposedly said screw it and started letting Yurcich call plays without providing any input?  I think if that indeed occurred, conventional wisdom is that it would have happened after the Oklahoma State game when our fate was sealed at not getting into the championship game.  So with Yurcich calling plays we put up 17 points against West Virginia.  And then we were 5-21 on 3^rd & 4^th downs vs K-state and Colorado.  However, we were + 6 in turnover margin over those last 2 games, and we averaged 13.5 yards per run for our 2 main running backs against K-state, and 10.8 yards per run against Colorado.  So is Yurcich so much better at calling run plays than the recommendations he was getting from Tom Herman?  Is Cosmi a terrible run blocker and he should have been benched all year?  Can we expect 10+ yards per carry next year with Yurcich getting zero input from Herman?  Or were those teams just crappy and beaten up?  I think it’s a greater likelihood of the latter.  Bijan getting more carries certainly helped, but we're not averaging anything near that next year against the better teams in the league.  And having Herman around likely ensures Bijan gets fewer carries than he would otherwise.  So to think that the offense is just going to click along next year based on the last 2 games of this season (while ignoring West Virginia) is a bit of wishful thinking IMHO.

As for the defense, here is the trend of points allowed per game for Texas since 2017 (First year of Herman)

Orlando:  21.2, 25.9, 27.5   Ash: 28.5      You can crap on Orlando all you want, but he was decent the first few years here, especially given the personnel he inherited.  And then people figured out his weaknesses and he was unable/unwilling to change.  Kind of like Tom.  Can Ash’s defense hold an OU team that has their 1^st string RB, a more experienced offensive line, and a qb with actual game experience underneath his belt to less than 40 points next year?  Can we score 40+ points against them next year? 

Because unless we beat OU next year, Herman is gone and all we've accomplished by retaining him another year is to save some money (not mine so who cares), and secure one more year of subpar recruiting results that will just set us back further.

I don't know who you are but using points allowed as a measuring stick is shitty. As is yards allowed.

Go take that kind of analysis literally anywhere else that isn't here.

The change to Ash has been a positive one from an eye test standpoint and from basically every advanced defensive static out there. 

[horn4life 3759]

OK I am going to be devil's advocate here, and predict that not only does Herman survive in 2021, he and the team thrive.  Now I realize this is not the most likely scenario, but since I have actually taken teams from losers to winners and champions my perspective may be different.  Usually it is simply not a steady march of forward trajectory.  It's a mercurial movement to the place you are trying to get your team.  Flashes of what you hope will be, combined with efforts that leave you scratching your head as to what those kids were thinking? And for some reason the top team in the division, league, or region simply does not want to let your team come in and be the top dog.  In other words it's not easy. And it's frustrating as hell to see the kids being so close, and yet not be able to put it together by the narrowest of margins.

Plus I am ROOTING for our kids, team and coach.

Here is how I currently see things from a coaching and recruiting perspective, winning takes care of everything! I remember reading some of the earlier analysis, where somebody said "this was a down year for OU" in justifying their criticism.  Fucking OU just beat the living shit our of the SEC's divisional champion, and 6th ranked team in the country.  I fucking hate OU, but they are a damn fine football team.  We don't exactly suck when taking that same team to multiple overtimes. But the mental mistakes honestly are often the most difficult to eliminate, almost as hard as getting players to play within themselves and TRUST their team mates.  

From my former coach's perspective, we were not that far away.  Now does that mean I would not have taken the big fucking splash that Urban Meyer would have made? Fuck no!!! But I am simply looking at where we are at, and if I were the head coach of the University of Texas my perspective on where the program is at.  I would view the team as being frustratingly close to being damn good. And I would be scratching my head as to how to get my players NOT to make bone headed mistakes. Especially targeting hits that sustain drives and remove talented first stringers.  That one thing would be my number one focus in the spring.  Can I coach a kid to protect a ball at all costs at the goal line?  You think I would need to make Ingram tote a football around campus, to make him hang on? Fuck no, my job is reinforce the basic technique sure, but my real job is healing the kid emotionally and rebuilding his confidence.  Mistakes happen.  Mistakes are how kids learn. Minimizing them is how you win consistently.

Here is the season in a nutshell from the perspective that I am the coach. UTEP as expected. Tech, no domination, I am not happy, but feel lucky to end up with a W, and go home scratching my head. I look back at the loss to TCU as one of those frustrating games where the team doesn't play well, has the opportunity for the win, and a certain win turns into a loss with that singular individual mistake.  The real mistake? Playing from behind, that was the sin that allowed the singular mistakes to take on such significance.  As a coach you look for the bounce back, and OU was a great game where we played pretty darn well at the end, frustratingly poorly in the beginning.  I do blame some of this on play calling, as I would have fed Bijan more and I hate Sam throwing anything more than about 15 yards. 

The season isn't over, but bring out the oxygen tanks. ISU is another game like TCU, but for perhaps a single play the outcome is different. ISU's first scoring drive is a clusterfuck. Two great defensive 1 yard stops that turn into drive sustaining opportunities because of mental errors, defined ISU's first score. That 7 points is only one of two TD's ISU puts up.  Sam's losing yards with a sack on the final play was the final mental mistake of the game... wide left from 58. Season is over.  Kansas State is bounce back with my head scratching about WTF last week.  I end up very pleased with the crushing of Colorado, all the while knowing they are not OU.  I look forward to getting one last chance with the kids I recruited that I thought could get Texas, and damn if I don't see Bijan and Casey as a scarily potent offensive pairing next season.  I like what I saw from the young and hungry on the defensive side of the ball, and I have hope.  I lay awake at night trying to figure out how to get the players to have the mental discipline to eliminate most of the mental errors.  If I can do that...

In other words if I were Herman I would feel pretty fucking good about where I am right now... except of course for the never ending ringing in my ears of who my future replacement might be.  That frustrates me, along with being so close.  Simply because I know that that ringing is also in the ears of recruits, just making it that much harder for me to do my job.  I know that it's my fault, as everything ultimately is my responsibility, but I'm frustrated too.  I just hope I can use this one last chance and get my kids to play to their true potential, and stop making the God Damn boneheaded mistakes! If I can get them to do that?  Everything else will take care of itself, and the same folks cursing me today will be toasting me and saying how, "They always knew we could do it." Just win... just win... Then I will pull in another recruiting class that will even have Surly singing my praises! Praise the Lord!

Flame away...

[NoName 16351]

1 minute ago, horn4life said:

In other words if I were Herman I would feel pretty fucking good about where I am right now... except of course for the never ending ringing in my ears of who my future replacement might be.  That frustrates me, along with being so close.  Simply because I know that that ringing is also in the ears of recruits, just making it that much harder for me to do my job.  I know that it's my fault, as everything ultimately is my responsibility, but I'm frustrated too.  I just hope I can use this one last chance and get my kids to play to their true potential, and stop making the God Damn boneheaded mistakes! If I can get them to do that?  Everything else will take care of itself, and the same folks cursing me today will be toasting me and saying how, "They always knew we could do it." Just win... just win... Then I will pull in another recruiting class that will even have Surly singing my praises! Praise the Lord!

Flame away...

Herman has had every opportunity to be successful and successfully shot himself in the leg every time. Staff selection, play calling, staff turnover, in game management, overall team preparation, identifying team and player strengths and weaknesses, disciplined team (using penalties called), etc have all either been failures or fail to show improvement years in. 

Tom Herman is in this situation 100% because of Tom Herman.