2021-2022 Astros Offseason Thread

[Hank Chinaski 6,320]

Yeah he’s obviously not signing a 5-year deal. CC has no interest in becoming a FA at age 32. This offer manors sense from the club’s perspective but not Correa’s. I’m sure he’s looking for a 10-year deal or something close to it. 

[tx 3 putt 77,428]

Slap to the face 

[WBT 20,669]

That's not a serious offer

[Jshep34 2,321]

I get wanting a 10 year deal just due to total money and security. Astros have to do whats best for the team and future.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[kevwun 15,897]

They could have done 40 something per year if they wanted to go that route.  You can’t offer fewer years and less money per season and expect someone to take it. A hometown discount isn’t over a 150 million.

Edited November 6, 2021 by kevwun

[Scraps 13,577]

I mean we all knew this was gonna be the offer. He wants 8-10yrs. We ain't giving it to him. I don't blame the Astros or him. Just not gonna happen.

[Wulaw Horn 19,152]

If you are going to give Carlos 5 years the top like number needs to have a 2 at the start. 

[The Dog 44,140]

What should the Astros offer?

Maybe go to 6/180 but no further.

[The Dog 44,140]

I mean we all knew this was gonna be the offer. He wants 8-10yrs. We ain't giving it to him. I don't blame the Astros or him. Just not gonna happen.

If the rumors on his back are true then he’s not getting that from anyone.

[Wulaw Horn 19,152]

1 minute ago, The Dog said:

What should the Astros offer?

Maybe go to 6/180 but no further.

5/200 if you want to sign him for the rest of this competitive window. 13 for 330 if you want to sign him for life.  7/250 with 130 for the first 3 with an opt out for him after 3 years might work. 

[WBT 20,669]

I'd be OK with 8/260.  If you're not going to go that long, maybe 6/220 or 5/200.

 

[WBT 20,669]

2 minutes ago, The Dog said:

If the rumors on his back are true then he’s not getting that from anyone.

The rumors on his back that are allegedly coming from Crane's camp?  We'll see.

[kevwun 15,897]

If someone offers him 10 years, I think we can call bs on that one.

[The Dog 44,140]

5/200 if you want to sign him for the rest of this competitive window. 13 for 330 if you want to sign him for life.  7/250 with 130 for the first 3 with an opt out for him after 3 years might work. 

That’s nuts. He’s not worth that.

[Hank Chinaski 6,320]

3 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

5/200 if you want to sign him for the rest of this competitive window. 13 for 330 if you want to sign him for life.  7/250 with 130 for the first 3 with an opt out for him after 3 years might work. 

I think I’d pass on any of those if I’m the Astros. 5/200 would be the closest, but I don’t think he’s signing that short of a contract.

No idea if the rumors about his back are true, but we do know he has had back problems in his mid-20s, which is concerning.

[kevwun 15,897]

No issues the last 2 seasons though.

[Rockethorn1978 6,102]

I wouldn’t do more than a 7 year contract. 

[Murfdogg21 4,426]

Why have y’all forsaken moneyball analytics with this 8+ year and/or $35M+/yr stuff? CC was one of our best players and great value up until now. First, he has a history of missing games/injury. Second, probably his most appealing trait is showing up big in the playoffs, yet he batted 0.250 with 1 RBI in the ALCS and 0.261 with 4 RBI in the WS. Is that really worth $40M a year? Or $300M+ over a contract? What are the odds we’ve already seen peak Carlos?

[Scraps 13,577]

What are the odds we’ve already seen peak Carlos?

Low

[MaybeACoordinator 8,349]

We are going to feel great about this in four years when he's playing 120 games/year at third. 

[Guadaloopy 11,014]

I hate to see Carlos go, but I ain’t mad at the FO here.  That’s a perfectly reasonable offer.  But you can’t compete with unreasonable offers, which someone else will make.   

[Rockethorn1978 6,102]

As long at the FO is aggressive and we add SP and some power I’m fine. If we let CC go then go out and do nothing but get cheap deal guys I’ll be pissed and wonder why if you’re gonna do that why not just give CC what he wants.

[tx 3 putt 77,428]

im very confident we targeted the right two players, altuve and bregman, for long term contracts. tucker and alvarez are next 

[The Dog 44,140]

[kevwun 15,897]

Altuve yes, not so sure about Bregman.  He kind of forgot how to hit. Tucker is a pretty safe extension if he’ll do it.

[tx 3 putt 77,428]

2 minutes ago, kevwun said:

Altuve yes, not so sure about Bregman.  He kind of forgot how to hit. Tucker is a pretty safe extension if he’ll do it.

IMO, he was playing hurt. He needs tk focus on flexibility, not muscle 

[MaybeACoordinator 8,349]

34 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

IMO, he was playing hurt. He needs tk focus on flexibility, not muscle 

a mild case of Richard Hidalgo Syndrome. "Hey, if I 44 homers weighing in at 190, if I roid out and come to camp at 250, I'll hit 90!" Um, nope, it turned you into a stiff JAG. 

[Hank Chinaski 6,320]

38 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

IMO, he was playing hurt. He needs tk focus on flexibility, not muscle 

Agreed. That quad was never quite right.

I’m not sure his training regimen was particularly sound, based on what I’ve heard. I believe he’s taken steps to address that. 

[UTexasFight 9,528]

4 hours ago, kevwun said:

If someone offers him 10 years, I think we can call bs on that one.

Not if it’s the angels

[tx 3 putt 77,428]

17 minutes ago, UTexasFight said:

Not if it’s the angels

Or rangers 

[Seasick Sailor 3,747]

2 hours ago, tx 3 putt said:

He needs tk focus on flexibility, not muscle  salsa.

 

[henrygandorf 29,194]

if true, 6-210 is a respectable, good-faith offer and nothing to sneeze at. he will get something better, but this is not on the astros, again, if accurate. 

[Planet Houston 4,930]

On 11/3/2021 at 6:58 PM, Planet Houston said:

I'd guess we offer him 6-180 (maybe a bit more $$ to sweeten the shorter deal), and good luck finding a longer deal. 

 

[HtownHorn 14,779]

7 hours ago, WBT said:

The rumors on his back that are allegedly coming from Crane's camp?  We'll see.

You act like he hasn't missed significant time to back injuries in the past? This is the 3rd time, if you want to count Covid, where he's played 90%+ of his team's games.

[kevwun 15,897]

Mark Berman is never wrong because he only reports info that Houston teams give him when they have news they want released.  So either the other fellow is full of shit or the Astros upped their offer.

Edited November 7, 2021 by kevwun

[TonyTexas 10,527]

2 minutes ago, kevwun said:

Mark Berman is never wrong because he only reports info that Houston teams give him when they have news they want released.  So either the other fellow is full of shit or the Astros upped their offer.

Yeah. The 6/$210m report is bullshit. Crane confirmed the 5/$160M

 

[The Dog 44,140]

Something to keep in mind - Bregman's salary increases to $30.5 million after next season. Altuve will make $29 million.

If we sign Correa to $32 million then that's over $90 million locked up on just three players. LMJ's contract is in the $16-17 million range over that time period. So that's around $110 million taken up by four players who haven't had a great history of staying healthy (other than Altuve but he's starting to show some wear and tear). That's a lot of guaranteed money for not many players and puts us in an Angels-style situation. 

I love Correa and love what he's done for the Astros, but I'd be just fine letting him walk and not having another albatross contract holding us back like we had this year with Greinke and Verlander. 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/HOU/houston-astros-salaries-and-contracts.shtml

Now on the flip side, look at how many contributors to our postseason run are under team control for a long time. Many will be entering arbitration in the next few years and we're going to need the cap space (pending the next CBA) to be able to pay them. 

Just trying to look at the big picture here...

[Hank Chinaski 6,320]

1 hour ago, The Dog said:

Something to keep in mind - Bregman's salary increases to $30.5 million after next season. Altuve will make $29 million.

If we sign Correa to $32 million then that's over $90 million locked up on just three players. LMJ's contract is in the $16-17 million range over that time period. So that's around $110 million taken up by four players who haven't had a great history of staying healthy (other than Altuve but he's starting to show some wear and tear). That's a lot of guaranteed money for not many players and puts us in an Angels-style situation. 

I love Correa and love what he's done for the Astros, but I'd be just fine letting him walk and not having another albatross contract holding us back like we had this year with Greinke and Verlander. 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/HOU/houston-astros-salaries-and-contracts.shtml

Now on the flip side, look at how many contributors to our postseason run are under team control for a long time. Many will be entering arbitration in the next few years and we're going to need the cap space (pending the next CBA) to be able to pay them. 

Just trying to look at the big picture here...

Yup, and this is why the Correa offer is what it is. The club is going to have to pay Alvarez and Tucker eventually. Teams value payroll flexibility and obligating $30mm annually for Correa’s age-33 season and beyond limits them. It sucks because he’ll probably be really good for the next 5 years or so, but to get those seasons you have to buy the ones where he’s less likely to be very good. Some team - probably one with less future payroll obligation, like the Tigers - will.

[ChickenSandwich 9,853]

Keep Correa. Keep your potential home grown hall of fame guys. Make up the cash in good PR. 

[patrickdrinksbeer 793]

Keep Correa. Keep your potential home grown hall of fame guys. Make up the cash in good PR. 

the guy has never finished higher than 17th in MVP voting before this year. i assume he’ll probably finish around 5th for 2021.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,523]

18 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Keep Correa. Keep your potential home grown hall of fame guys. Make up the cash in good PR. 

Not that my vote counts for anything but they should overpay him for a 5 year agreement but not offer a 7 year plus deal. But I don’t fault Correa for wanting and ultimately, accepting the longer term deal with another team.

[Mo Horn 8,855]

1 hour ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Keep Correa. Keep your potential home grown hall of fame guys. Make up the cash in good PR. 

You do realize it has nothing to do with money made our lost by the team, right? It's about the luxury tax and the amount you spend for the entire team's payroll. 

[MaybeACoordinator 8,349]

3 hours ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Keep Correa. Keep your potential home grown hall of fame guys. Make up the cash in good PR. 

The good PR would be negated by the losses, as gaps appear elsewhere in the lineup and pitching staff, because three or four declining talents are hogging the budget.

I love Correa. I loved Springer too. But if their demands are significantly more than the Astros business model can bear, we just have to say goodbye, wish them well, and hope for the best from our replacements.

It would be a hell of a lot harder to part with Correa if had a long run of demonstrated durability, but he's been brittle in his younger years. How many guys like that post roids suddenly become 145 game per year guys in their 30s? 

Like I said, this will suck for a couple of years. Seven or eight years down the line, we will be shaking our heads about whoever signed Correa to all that money way back when.

 

[TonyTexas 10,527]

 

[WBT 20,669]

No chance JV accepts right?  I'm guessing someone will give him 2 years, if not 3.

[TonyTexas 10,527]

16 minutes ago, WBT said:

No chance JV accepts right?  I'm guessing someone will give him 2 years, if not 3.

Probably not but there is a narrative out there that he uses it as a prove it year. I personally think that some bridges have been burnt. 

Edited November 7, 2021 by TonyTexas

[Mo Horn 8,855]

35 minutes ago, WBT said:

No chance JV accepts right?  I'm guessing someone will give him 2 years, if not 3.

If not we get a compensation pick

[Scraps 13,577]

Correa won GG

Should've been back to back

[TonyTexas 10,527]

 

[Scraps 13,577]

Yuli won GG also