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2021-2022 Astros Offseason Thread


Planet Houston

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1 hour ago, Js1 said:

It’s getting late into the night, almost closing time at the bar and all the gals are pairing off with other suitors and not receptive to CC’s flirting.

It’s like the change from daylight savings time to standard. You think your out of time then, voila, you have another hour to stalk. 

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48 minutes ago, TonyTexas said:

Right field. Tucker to center. 

Good call. Not the most ideal defensive OF, but the offense would be great. Brantley is probably a platoon player at this point so plenty of ABs for McCormick and Siri. Likely move Soler to LF against LHP.

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21 minutes ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

Any hope of adding good bullpen arms? Clear need I thought we would aggressively go after.

They signed Neris from the Phillies.

Pressly, Stanek, Neris, Maton, Taylor, Baez, Montero is a workable bullpen. Ideally, I'd like another lefty. Plus if either Brown or Whitley make the rotation, Javier moves back to the bullpen.

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42 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

We have enough arms. We lack bats. I guess I’m going to die alone on this island. 

Hey I’ll be the first to admit the potential lockout to actual lockout I haven’t kept up besides the JV signing. I just know our pitching depth was terrible last year and we lost 3 guys in free agency and don’t know about the one signing. Can’t ever have too many quality arms.

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51 minutes ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

Any hope of adding good bullpen arms? Clear need I thought we would aggressively go after.

 

30 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

They signed Neris from the Phillies.

Pressly, Stanek, Neris, Maton, Taylor, Baez, Montero is a workable bullpen. Ideally, I'd like another lefty. Plus if either Brown or Whitley make the rotation, Javier moves back to the bullpen.

Lots of mentions from the beat writers that Houston is in the market for relief help but I don’t understand it.  They have 8 arms that are currently locked into the pen: Pressly, Neris, Maton, Baez, Stanek, Montero, Javier, and Odorizzi.  Sure, it’s likely they will have an injury or two but their pen is stacked on paper.  If they wanted to upgrade the pen they should not have tendered Montero.

That said, I think identifying relief targets is a strength of Click’s so I could see them making a trade, flipping somebody like Javier for an older higher leverage arm.  Sure would be sweet to add a dominant lefty closer like Hader.

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5 hours ago, billfromlaketravis said:

I think Correa is going to regret not signing the Detroit offer sheet. 
 

This all played out very well for the Stros. None of the big coastal teams got involved, and the Cubs can’t figure out if they’re buyers or sellers. 

Yeah, it doesn't sound like he got another offer close to that much.  You don't ever turn down 275 million dollars.

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Javier should absolutely not be traded, and certainly not for another reliever. He’s a team-controlled asset with playoff pedigree who can be deployed 17 different ways.

I also don’t think LMJ is gonna be pitching anytime soon (and JV is a partial question mark too), so I expect to see Javier break camp as a starter anyway…certainly not an expendable guy.

Even if those health outlooks improve, I’d imagine Click will want to stick with a 6 man rotation as long as possible to limit wear/tear/innings.


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People have been writing Boras is slipping articles for years, but it feels like he really let his client down in the Correa/Detroit case. 
Boras wasn't his agent. He fired the dummy that messed up that deal and hired Boras in Jan during the lockout
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People have been writing Boras is slipping articles for years, but it feels like he really let his client down in the Correa/Detroit case. 

CC didn’t hire Boras until mid-Jan; several weeks after the other marquee guys signed elsewhere.

It appears those clowns at William Morris (with basically zero MLB experience) dicked up his negotiations and Boras is now trying to salvage the impending disaster.


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13 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

This move makes no sense to me. Nor the reliever  signing this year. Nor the decision not to non tender a couple of these scrubs that are now owed guaranteed money. Nor Odorizi. We’ve got like 20 or 30 million on the payroll that is completely unnecessary. 

This is so they can keep Peña down to begin the season and thereby gain another year of control over him.  Also a replacement level player who’s better than De Goti who they can slide in should Peña get hurt. 

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26 minutes ago, Starfleet Command said:

This is so they can keep Peña down to begin the season and thereby gain another year of control over him.  Also a replacement level player who’s better than De Goti who they can slide in should Peña get hurt. 

I guess. The thing about a replacement level player is you are supposed to be able to pull them off the scrap heap and not pay them $2,000,000. 
I guess we aren’t planning on spending anywhere up to the line here this year, in which case I guess I don’t care, I was just hoping we’d spend $229,999,999.00 this year- which would mean that we could get another star in FA (or retain our current star) as we were currently around 190,000,000 for luxury tax purposes. 
Every move we make like this seemingly puts another nail in the coffin of the idea of bringing in another big bat. 

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3 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

I guess. The thing about a replacement level player is you are supposed to be able to pull them off the scrap heap and not pay them $2,000,000. 
I guess we aren’t planning on spending anywhere up to the line here this year, in which case I guess I don’t care, I was just hoping we’d spend $229,999,999.00 this year- which would mean that we could get another star in FA (or retain our current star) as we were currently around 190,000,000 for luxury tax purposes. 
Every move we make like this seemingly puts another nail in the coffin of the idea of bringing in another big bat. 

Just relax.  There’s still a shitload of good players in free agency and available via trade.  And even if they do nothing, as it stands they are projected as the 3rd best team in MLB and a good bit ahead of every team in their division.  
 

Obviously Click expects Goodrum to be at least marginally above replacement level.  Fwiw Fangraphs projects Goodrum to 0.4 fwar over 175 pa which would make him a good value for $2.1M.

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I didn't see the point ofthe Goodrum signing at first blush, then I took a step back and realize he's basically replacing the Marwin/Robel spot on the bench, but may actually put up a flat or minimally positive WAR vs. negative value.  If he gives you 0.0, that's an improvement over those two last year. Hits LHP reasonably well. Some spot starts when usual starters are resting and the occasional situational AB. That's it. Nothing to really fret over.

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12 minutes ago, Snake Diggity said:

Just relax.  There’s still a shitload of good players in free agency and available via trade.  And even if they do nothing, as it stands they are projected as the 3rd best team in MLB and a good bit ahead of every team in their division.  
 

Obviously Click expects Goodrum to be at least marginally above replacement level.  Fwiw Fangraphs projects Goodrum to 0.4 fwar over 175 pa which would make him a good value for $2.1M.

Us being projected to be the 3rd best team in baseball kind of proves my point about why we don’t need to make this kind of move though. If you are head and shoulders better than everyone in you division that you don’t need to worry about signing .4 WAR type players for depth- you are already good to go and don’t need to spend money there. That’s a floor raising move. Our floor is high enough. You or I could take 80 AB’s for this team and stand on the field with a glove at SS or 3B and it wouldn’t fundamentally change our teams outlook. Because of that, every move and dollar should be spent on raising our ceiling. This move doesn’t help that. 
 

As to relaxing my blood pressure is fine. I just don’t get it and think it’s a dumb move, but in conjunction with everything else we are doing (keeping ODO, bringing monteras back and signing that slappy reliever and now this move we are in about 20 million on those moves. We have 30 left to spend to the tax line. That’s 50 million dollars. That ballpark could get a Freddy Freeman and a Bryant. Or a Correa and Jansen if you really think you need that. Or a Bryant and a Rodon. All those moves are moves designed to win in the playoffs. What we are doing aren’t playoff moves. They are depth moves to get through the regular season, which as you point out I don’t believe we need. 
It’s just a fundamental disagreement I have with Click that I think is a hangover from his tampa days. He’s trying to find value and missing the forest for the trees. 
I’m going to acknowledge this though as cutting against my argument… it is very infrequently that the best team in baseball actually wins it all. Red Sox in 2018 and Dodgers in 2020 did it, but 2021 the Braves weren’t it (best team in the game) 20-9 we were a rampaging pride of fuck lions and didn’t win, 2017 the dodgers were probably slightly marginally by a cunt hair better than us and they didn’t win. So it goes. I like to take the tact of building the absolute best team possible and then rolling the dice, but there’s an argument to be made to just get in the playoffs and hope you are the team the baseball gods decide to bless by allowing it to ride the wave in October. 
hell, the giants won three times in the last decade and never were the best team in the league, so it’s probably the case that planning for the playoffs is mental masterbation that doesn’t matter at the end of the day. 

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9 minutes ago, Storm the Field said:

I didn't see the point ofthe Goodrum signing at first blush, then I took a step back and realize he's basically replacing the Marwin/Robel spot on the bench, but may actually put up a flat or minimally positive WAR vs. negative value.  If he gives you 0.0, that's an improvement over those two last year. Hits LHP reasonably well. Some spot starts when usual starters are resting and the occasional situational AB. That's it. Nothing to really fret over.

This is totally and completely 100% accurate. And as @Starfleet Command made a good point it allows us to engage in fuckery related to Pena’s service time as well. $2,000,000 isn’t a lot of money. That is true, but 2 here, 5 here, 7 there and eventually you are talking about enough to sign a legitimate first division player that will help you in the playoffs. 

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8 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Us being projected to be the 3rd best team in baseball kind of proves my point about why we don’t need to make this kind of move though. If you are head and shoulders better than everyone in you division that you don’t need to worry about signing .4 WAR type players for depth- you are already good to go and don’t need to spend money there. That’s a floor raising move. Our floor is high enough. You or I could take 80 AB’s for this team and stand on the field with a glove at SS or 3B and it wouldn’t fundamentally change our teams outlook. Because of that, every move and dollar should be spent on raising our ceiling. This move doesn’t help that. 
 

As to relaxing my blood pressure is fine. I just don’t get it and think it’s a dumb move, but in conjunction with everything else we are doing (keeping ODO, bringing monteras back and signing that slappy reliever and now this move we are in about 20 million on those moves. We have 30 left to spend to the tax line. That’s 50 million dollars. That ballpark could get a Freddy Freeman and a Bryant. Or a Correa and Jansen if you really think you need that. Or a Bryant and a Rodon. All those moves are moves designed to win in the playoffs. What we are doing aren’t playoff moves. They are depth moves to get through the regular season, which as you point out I don’t believe we need. 
It’s just a fundamental disagreement I have with Click that I think is a hangover from his tampa days. He’s trying to find value and missing the forest for the trees. 
I’m going to acknowledge this though as cutting against my argument… it is very infrequently that the best team in baseball actually wins it all. Red Sox in 2018 and Dodgers in 2020 did it, but 2021 the Braves weren’t it (best team in the game) 20-9 we were a rampaging pride of fuck lions and didn’t win, 2017 the dodgers were probably slightly marginally by a cunt hair better than us and they didn’t win. So it goes. I like to take the tact of building the absolute best team possible and then rolling the dice, but there’s an argument to be made to just get in the playoffs and hope you are the team the baseball gods decide to bless by allowing it to ride the wave in October. 
hell, the giants won three times in the last decade and never were the best team in the league, so it’s probably the case that planning for the playoffs is mental masterbation that doesn’t matter at the end of the day. 

The problem is that Freeman and Bryant aren’t signing for $50M.  They’re signing for $150M+.  Niko Goodrum at $2.1M has zero impact on that kind of move.  You can argue the Odorizzi contract had some marginal impact on their ability to sign a major free agent but that was a desperation move in the wake of what they thought was a devastating turn of events in their rotation and justified at the time.  Neris is certainly the type of reliever who becomes extremely important down the stretch and in the playoffs (just as Graveman was last season).  If they want to sign a major free agent they can, even after the Neris/Odo/Goodrum moves.  It’s just pretty clear they don’t think that is a good allocation of resources at this time.  

Click had this team in the World Series last year.  He deserves the benefit of the doubt.

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